Policy changes at The Music Room TMR Audio

TMR is a great company to work with.

I would not hesitate to do business with them again.

Believe me I have tried; we just always seem to be wide apart when it comes to my trade in value or their perceived value of the used item they are selling.

ozzy

@coralkong I agree, great to transact with; highly recommended.

@ozzy , interesting.

I've never traded in any equipment there, but have made (and they've accepted) offers I've placed before.

Easy, peasey. 

I even had an issue with a CD player and when they couldn't repair it, they refunded my money with zero hassles.

Good to know. Does 5% restocking fee across the board or only on the new gear? I wouldn’t mind paying 5% restocking on new gear but not on used or open box items which is a huge part of their business model. My .02 cents! 

+1, I agree that The Music Room is a great company to work with.  My consignment sales have been excellent, and my last item sold for its asking price.  My purchases from them have been fair and everything was handed very quickly.  I find them easy to work with and their customer support is excellent. I had some technical issues with an item I purchased, and they helped me solve the issue. 

I wasn't posting this as an overall referendum on whether TMR was worth doing business with. Posters addressed that question but it was not one I had in mind. I like TMR. I think they're a good company. 

@lalitk I believe it applies to all equipment, including used. So, imagine you're trying out a $5000 DAC and you don't like it. You're going to spend not only on shipping but also $250 for the month trial. That's what has me hesitating.

I figured that eventually they would charge a restocking fee and 5% is actually quite reasonable.  It will cut down on people who aren’t that serious about making the purchase but just want to try something out.   That takes away from their time and then they are out a piece of equipment while the other person is playing with it with really no intention to buy.  Believe it or not, there are a lot of people like that.    They probably got burned one too many times.  It’s a shame it has to come to this but it’s a sign of the times.   
 

@ozzy,   I had bought a Mac MC152 amp from Audio Classics for $2900.00.  I used it almost every day for a little over 2 years and a Mac MC302 amp caught my eye at TMR.  They offered me $2500.00 trade in on my amp and it cost me 2K more for the newer amp. They were asking $4500.00 for it.   I made out great, only losing $400.00 on my trade off the $4500.00 asking price of the MC302.  They sent me a prepaid UPS label on them and I sent my amp.  I received the new amp exactly 1 week later.  I am very pleased, one of the better deals I have made.  

If you're balking at a 5% restocking fee perhaps you should reevaluate your purchasing process. When 15%-30% is the norm what tmr charges should be perceived as inconsequential, not a decision influencer.

Those seem like very reasonable policies I've never used TMR but they seem like an excellent company. My only complaint is their ads and not being able to see an item description without going to their website.

The online retailers I order from have no restock, assuming I pay return shipping. Maybe I hit a honey hole….

I wouldn’t try a product and risk 30% restock.

@hilde45

A 30 days trial for a $250 plus shipping cost on a $5K item is pretty reasonable to me. And here is why, buying a similar item on used market and reselling is a lot more hassle than the seamless trial process TMR have in place for their customers. You don’t have to agree but I say this based on my 20 plus years of buying/selling gear on used market…you could loose lot more than 5% in the process.

TMR is totally legit. The added incentives are icing on the cake. Bought stuff from them I did not like, they took it back no questions asked. Got stuff I liked from them, still using it today.

They are a great company to deal with, both for buying and consigning equipment.  If you have questions, their customer service is very good as well.

I have purchased twice from TMR.   The first was a trade in toward an Aurender N200.  Out of pocket cost was low and they made it super easy

They were closing out the excellent little Cyrus i7XR and I am in the process of assembling a bedroom system.  I got a killer deal and it was exactly what I was looking for .  I think its a 60 return window on new gear .  I love this little amp, it was a no brainer for me at that price.   It arrived 4 days later.   TMR is great to deal with in my experience 

So...I'm not impressed by their policy changes. I've found their prices to be sky high in general and their "CPO" warranty a flimsy gimmick. I'd expect a true "CPO" warranty on a 5k used piece of audio gear to be one year - not thirty days, or now, the 45 days they offer. It's ridiculously short. I also find charing a 5% restocking fee to "offset" their "CPO" warranty an insult. Offer a a true benefit that offsets the higher than market prices they charge and at minimum they can rationalize their pricing methodologies. As it is, they charge top dollar and the CPO warranty, due to its ridiculously short duration, only covers an immediate catastrophic problem. 

I’ve purchased probably 80% of my current setup through them and think they are great.  Make them an offer and they will usually get you a good deal  

Keep in mind that when you return something, you pay the return shipping. Seems fair, but you should be aware of that.

5% barely covers their credit card transaction fees (and may not cover them completely depending on the credit card used), let alone their other costs associated with handling a return. 
 

I was going to buy a used N200 but I could not pass up a new one for just a little more. They did me right.

Some of their new closeouts are really good deals.  Additionally I thought I had an issue with my new amp.   I contacted TMR and they were super responsive.    Cyrus returned my email Sunday night (their Monday AM)  and got me straightened out.  

TMR contacted me that afternoon and offered me a good deal on another Cyrus or return, or credit toward something else.  All was good but they were proactive and seemed to be all about my satisfaction.  Can't ask for more than that.   

Was just there last wk to pick some stuff up.they have a new music showroom that was very professional.staff was very helpful lifting big speakers in the trailer.they are like satin very tempting.have bought alot from them with no problems.have not had to return anything yet. Got to see the photo shoot of how they take all thier pictures of product to put on line.it was like a model shoot well done.i give them  thumbs up.they had a sense of humor too.thanks for all the good times tmr

TMR is a great place to do business with. Those "test driving" should consider the 5% as part of the convenience and accept it as such.

A 5% restocking fee is a mere bag of shells!

I would be more tempted to try something at TMR that maybe I wouldn't have before.   5% is nothing.   Anyone bitching about that needs a new hobby

They are absolutely loosing money with a 5% restock fee, the new policy is more than fair.  I would argue that it is too low.  

It is hard enough for any business to keep the lights on these days, especially ones that are SUPER stock heavy.  Remember it literally costs them money to have a piece of equipment in stock (carrying cost), and more money to let someone try it out for 30 days (opportunity cost), and more money to run your credit card - both in paying the CC fees and in paying the employee to run the card, box and pack the items, accept the items back in to stock, re-list them on the website.  Not to mention the actual purchase of the packing materials, and the monthly costs associated with the physical space to store these items.  They are absolutely loosing money with just a 5% return fee.  

Does anyone really have to explain why a business supporting a location and the staff, customer service, etc. that goes along with it has higher prices on used items than your neighbor? 

That said - I do see their used prices start high market, and gradually come down over time, seems reasonable to me.  I have also gotten a couple low trade in quotes from them and decided not to go that route - although I have done fine with their consignment end.  The convenience was well worth it on a few things. 

Just my 2, Be well!

The one transaction I had with them, was a good experience.  I traded in my N-100 for  a new N-200, I was offered a fair trade in, the N-200 was in the range I was hopping  to be in, so I grabbed the deal. As far as the restocking fee, it seems reasonable and fair.

They have to stay in business, and I’m sure perhaps some individuals were taking advantage of returning equipment. I’ve purchased from them before and they are a reputable company. Sounds very reasonable. 

Have said this before, TMR & Holt Hill Audio are my go to shops. It's pretty great when the owners list their cel phones as the company contacts. Can't get more personalized than that. TMR appears to have a wider selection of hi-end gear but HHA has incredible vintage speakers & compnents. I don't know where they source them but most everything on their website is beautiful. Last year I purchased an Innous, Zen from TMR - as always, easy transaction all around and this spring I purchased a spotless Sansui, AU-9500 for my summer place from Holt Hill, came in three days from purchase, as described & looked like it was storred for 45yrs. Just my experience but so far, I believe you cant go wrong with either of these options. There are however posers out there (no negatve energy here and wont list anyone in particular) so take your time, do your research and pick the right spot to give your business to.

You people make me laugh.  I would like to see anyone here own a business.  The policy changes seem pretty reasonable to me.  Doesn't eBay charge 10% on sales?

Happy Listening.

@gregdude et al.

If you’re balking at a 5% restocking fee perhaps you should reevaluate your purchasing process.

What I said in my post was this:

Their rationale for this makes sense and seems reasonable. It would be nice if there could be exceptions to the restocking fee, such as cables and other products which don’t need extensive checking for quality control.

So, we agree. I was wondering about exceptions, not the overall policy.

The point made about credit card transaction fees and their restocking fee being pretty low compared to other vendors (mostly) were good ones. I’m thinking about that as more or less defusing my initial concern. Maybe spending a few hundred to try out a couple good used cables is worth it after all.

N.B. Here are some other policies I found out there. None make TMR seem unreasonable, but they do vary a bit. All policies below apply to used, closeout, and refurbished gear as well as to new gear.

• Echo hifi is 3% after 3 days (to cover credit card transaction) and then 20% for any return after that (up to 30 days).
• Paragon Audio has a 15% restocking fee.
• Upscale Audio has no restock fees up to 60 days and (as far as I can tell) no credit card transaction fee.
• Crutchfield, Audio Advice, Audio Classics, and Music Direct can opt to charge restocking but does not have it as an across the board policy.
• Hawthorne stereo does not mention restocking on used gear.

FYI: Kurt is retiring and looking for someone to buy Echo Audio.

Policy changes seem reasonable to me.

As far as the prices they offer you on equipment you want to move on from you can't expect to receive "market price" from them as they still need to make a profit on it , as well as,  cover their costs of financing and carrying costs until they are able to move it , and the upfront shipping costs they absorb. Plus they remove the potential hassles involved with private sale.

Their new policy seems very reasonable to me. I've bought several items with them and always get a fair deal.  Just have to work with them. 

I need to make it a point to visit Holt Hill Audio the next time I'm in Lawrence.   I see their ads often on CL and they get some really nice gear new and used.   

Not many shops like that in the Boston area.   In fact a few local dealers don't even sell used gear anymore, they consign.   So the used gear you see is not a trade in , it is a consignment arrangement 

Their site says "The average time from when a used product is listed for sale to the time payment is issued currently averages 47 days. About 30% of our used products sell within the first 14 days. Of course, some products will take longer but it’s rare for anything to sit on our warehouse shelves for more than a few months."

I’m very interested in an item they’ve had listed for over 6 months. They have dropped the price 1% on two occasions. It’s still high based on my own research. Does this indicate that it’s likely a consignment item? Is there any way to tell from the listing if it’s consignment?

They brag "our sales team is very adept at the art of negotiation. We will field offers and negotiate with legitimate buyers with the goal of balancing best pricing vs. fastest sale." So any tips on how to get the best deal from them on a slow-moving high priced item?

Is there a particular individual I should ask to speak with who has the ultimate authority to reduce the asking price to close a legit deal? There's a thin overlap between what they can sell for and what I can afford. Dicking around with a sales guy with no authority isn't going to result in a win for either party. 
Cheers,

Spencer

I have sold many things through the TMR  and was treated very well. We would all like to think our product is worth more, and probably is. I had several issues with a Project RS2T transport that was returned and re ordered many times, as it wouldn't work properly. They were GREAT, apologized over and over and finally I got a working one. The best part of TMR, is CUSTOMER SERVICE!!!!! They actually seem to care about you, which in today's world seems rare.  It's nice to be able to TRUST someone, especially when your talking large sums om money being transacted. 5% is the cost of doing business I guess but as others have said, many others are much more,  and don't offer in my opinion, the aforementioned hand holding!!!  Will always do business with them. Robert TN

@sbank 

If the item you want has a “make offer” option, make an offer. There isn’t anyone specific to discuss it with. You will get an email of acceptance, or counter. You can haggle from there. Of course, there will be a bit of a premium if buying through them. They handle all the incoming shipping from any item, trade or otherwise and pay to put ads on EBay, Agon, etc. it all costs money…

Overall, I’ve had great success with them and think the new policy is very reasonable.

Well I gues I'm the exception to the "TMR is great" chorus. $1400 later, I'll omit the details.

the policy changes seem imminently reasonable to me... tmr is a good outfit, always had good dealings with them

I think the new policy is fair. Lalitk agree new 5% for new, and used 2%, if you are serious in buying yes get the guy who can make a deal.TMR is a legit place to buy.

Thanks for the feedback. People are divided, with a majority (so far) thinking it’s reasonable as a policy. Of course, this is not a scientific sample and TMR needs to do this for the reasons they stated.

As I said, I’m mostly interested in possible exceptions.

Let’s say you want to try these $19k cables. You wind up not liking them after hooking them up once and trying them for a couple weeks. This policy would have you pay $960 to do that. I guess anyone buying cables this expensive has a lot of money laying around.

Would it be fair to assume they’re ok with spending nearly $1k to try these cables for up to a month? My instinct is they would not be ok with that, but others here are saying that the 5% policy is reasonable, so I guess I may be wrong about that!

Yep, I read the email and I have no problem with them giving me more time to try things out for only a 5% fee. They have to make a living to.

Just to see how the fee shakes out across different gear, I tried out a few products. In some cases, the fee seems reasonable to me. In other cases, it would probably prevent me from auditioning. I know others here are totally fine with the 5% fee. So, this is just to get a sense of how a 5% fee might play out with different gear. For me. YMMV.

Ansuz Acoustics Signalz D2 RCA Cables; 2m Pair Interconnects $9,226.52
Restocking fee: $461

Audience FrontRow Power Cable; 1.25m AC Cord $3,399.00
Restocking: $170

MSB Technology Select II DAC; Black; PowerBase -- $57,058.45
Restocking fee: $2852

Nagra HD DAC X D/A Converter $38,038.65
Restocking fee: $1901

Chord Electronics DAVE Reference DAC / Headphone Amplifier $14,000.00
Restocking fee: $700

Dan D’Agostino Momentum M400 Mono Power Amplifier; Pair $31,381.72
Restocking fee: $1569

Pass Labs XA160 Mono Power Amplifiers; Silver Pair; XA-160 $9,226.52
Restocking fee: $461

Wilson-Benesch Resolution Floorstanding Speakers $35,896.43
Restocking fee: $1794

Fleetwood Sound DeVille SQ Bookshelf Speakers $14,849.01
Restocking fee: $742

When TMR or any other retailer sells a new unit and it is returned in the same shape, with all the paperwork, etc., can the retailer then sell it again at full price as a new item?  Or do they need to sell it as open box or customer return? 

TMR is my favorite. 5% is chump change for that level of service.

@jetter - Once a new unit is sold, opened and returned it should then be sold as an open box return.