TMR has made a few changes to their policies which may interest folks.
Warranties for used gear is now 90 rather than 45 days.
Trial period is now 30 rather than 14 days.
There is now a restocking fee of 5%. Their rationale for this makes sense and seems reasonable. It would be nice if there could be exceptions to the restocking fee, such as cables and other products which don't need extensive checking for quality control. One result of this policy is that there is some more costly gear I would have tried but now am reluctant. I suppose that’s just a personal admission.
@jond I can see the confusion in reading my post. And I hope I don't further confuse you.
Now that tmraudio has posted that there is no restocking fee for returns of Factory Authorized (new or open box) gear what I wrote is not accurate.
Before the tmr post I had intended to say that while the person returning new gear pays a 5% restocking fee, I as a buyer of what is now open box gear would expect to pay less for the gear, say at a 20% discount.
Therefore tmr is eating the 15% difference (20%-5%) in lost sale price.
Now that tmr has stated they charge no restocking fee for returns of new gear, they are eating the total difference between the new price of the gear and the now reduced open box gear price.
@jetterI think you maybe misunderstood something, or perhaps I am, but the 5% being discussed is a restocking fee for returns of used gear not a discount.
The reason TMR has done well is that they stick to their game plan and don't try and be everything for everybody. Their return policy is reasonable, particularly compared to some new equipment retail establishments that require up to 15% for restocking fees. The prices they buy and sell for allow them to stay in business and make a profit while providing a level of service that is above what I have seen from other merchants dealing in used home audio gear. They are growing their business to include sales of new equipment. I have purchased from them in the past and would have no hesitation to do so in the future.
I bought a used tube power supply from TMR that was designed and made by a small manufacturer , The Music Room's packaging was far superior to the original manufacturers packaging. They had used a foam machine to encapsulate the entire product before putting it in the box. I've owned this power supply for 5 years with zero problems.
WOW. This thread has degenerated. Buy whatever you want, from wherever you want.
If 5% restock fee is beyond your means, perhaps you should fish in a smaller pond, or choose another vendor. Amazon gives returns up to like 60 or 90 days, lol.
Who cares?
You folks are not "influencers". Stop it already. Nobody gives a shit what you think, nobody cares what I think......enough already. Support a US business when you can, don’t when you cannot. I don’t care anymore. Audiophiles suck.
Obviously you care. You posted. You took your time to rag on this thread.
"Enough already"? LOG OFF. CLICK AWAY. BEGONE.
Perhaps you don’t understand what a ’discussion forum’ is. I suggest you do so research and try to not be mean to people. This is a hobby, and the forum discussion is for fun.
Greetings TMR-Audiophiles, we appreciate the continued opportunity to serve you all. I just wanted to pop in and clarify the new policy for anyone who has not read the "fine print."
Factory Authorized (new or open box): 60 day returns, manufacturer warranty, No restocking fee.
We are now factory authorized for over 50 great HiFi brands, so it’s important to make the distinction that the restocking fee only applies to returns of CPO gear, and in those cases only when a product is not defective. Of course, we can always work with a customer when there are unique circumstances or an exchange. We don’t want to take the fun out shopping with us!
Thank you all for your continued support and patronage.
Come the end of the day if you don’t like their new policy don’t buy from them. Nothing is this thread , including math examples of 5% times X prices, is going to change TMR’s or any other dealer’s policy.
@jetter - Once a new unit is sold, opened and returned it should then be sold as an open box return.
Thanks for the answer Bill.
If I am purchasing an open box return I would expect to receive a discount of a lot more than 5%. For example (and not looking up the precise numbers), RenoHiFi was/is selling their like new XA25s for about $1,000 less than their retail price of about $5,000. So in my book, only paying return shipping and a 5% restocking fee is totally fair and then some.
as some have mentioned, it is important to see an issue as this from both the consumer and business perspectives
much of the commentary has naturally been from a user perspective - witness @hilde45's calculations
when you have been involved in and run businesses, particularly retail businesses, you have an appreciation of the costs to do that business -- it is not free for a business to provide a return policy to customers... the earnings of the business need to support this valuable offering provided...
When TMR or any other retailer sells a new unit and it is returned in the same shape, with all the paperwork, etc., can the retailer then sell it again at full price as a new item? Or do they need to sell it as open box or customer return?
Just to see how the fee shakes out across different gear, I tried out a few products. In some cases, the fee seems reasonable to me. In other cases, it would probably prevent me from auditioning. I know others here are totally fine with the 5% fee. So, this is just to get a sense of how a 5% fee might play out with different gear. For me. YMMV.
Thanks for the feedback. People are divided, with a majority (so far) thinking it’s reasonable as a policy. Of course, this is not a scientific sample and TMR needs to do this for the reasons they stated.
As I said, I’m mostly interested in possible exceptions.
Let’s say you want to try these $19k cables. You wind up not liking them after hooking them up once and trying them for a couple weeks. This policy would have you pay $960 to do that. I guess anyone buying cables this expensive has a lot of money laying around.
Would it be fair to assume they’re ok with spending nearly $1k to try these cables for up to a month? My instinct is they would not be ok with that, but others here are saying that the 5% policy is reasonable, so I guess I may be wrong about that!
I think the new policy is fair. Lalitk agree new 5% for new, and used 2%, if you are serious in buying yes get the guy who can make a deal.TMR is a legit place to buy.
If the item you want has a “make offer” option, make an offer. There isn’t anyone specific to discuss it with. You will get an email of acceptance, or counter. You can haggle from there. Of course, there will be a bit of a premium if buying through them. They handle all the incoming shipping from any item, trade or otherwise and pay to put ads on EBay, Agon, etc. it all costs money…
Overall, I’ve had great success with them and think the new policy is very reasonable.
I have sold many things through the TMR and was treated very well. We would all like to think our product is worth more, and probably is. I had several issues with a Project RS2T transport that was returned and re ordered many times, as it wouldn't work properly. They were GREAT, apologized over and over and finally I got a working one. The best part of TMR, is CUSTOMER SERVICE!!!!! They actually seem to care about you, which in today's world seems rare. It's nice to be able to TRUST someone, especially when your talking large sums om money being transacted. 5% is the cost of doing business I guess but as others have said, many others are much more, and don't offer in my opinion, the aforementioned hand holding!!! Will always do business with them. Robert TN
Their site says "The average time from when a used product is listed for sale to the time payment is issued currently averages 47 days. About 30% of our used products sell within the first 14 days. Of course, some products will take longer but it’s rare for anything to sit on our warehouse shelves for more than a few months."
I’m very interested in an item they’ve had listed for over 6 months. They have dropped the price 1% on two occasions. It’s still high based on my own research. Does this indicate that it’s likely a consignment item? Is there any way to tell from the listing if it’s consignment?
They brag "our sales team is very adept at the art of negotiation. We will field offers and negotiate with legitimate buyers with the goal of balancing best pricing vs. fastest sale." So any tips on how to get the best deal from them on a slow-moving high priced item?
Is there a particular individual I should ask to speak with who has the ultimate authority to reduce the asking price to close a legit deal? There's a thin overlap between what they can sell for and what I can afford. Dicking around with a sales guy with no authority isn't going to result in a win for either party.
Cheers,
I need to make it a point to visit Holt Hill Audio the next time I'm in Lawrence. I see their ads often on CL and they get some really nice gear new and used.
Not many shops like that in the Boston area. In fact a few local dealers don't even sell used gear anymore, they consign. So the used gear you see is not a trade in , it is a consignment arrangement
As far as the prices they offer you on equipment you want to move on from you can't expect to receive "market price" from them as they still need to make a profit on it , as well as, cover their costs of financing and carrying costs until they are able to move it , and the upfront shipping costs they absorb. Plus they remove the potential hassles involved with private sale.
If you’re balking at a 5% restocking fee perhaps you should reevaluate your purchasing process.
What I said in my post was this:
Their rationale for this makes sense and seems reasonable. It would be nice if there could be exceptions to the restocking fee, such as cables and other products which don’t need extensive checking for quality control.
So, we agree. I was wondering about exceptions, not the overall policy.
The point made about credit card transaction fees and their restocking fee being pretty low compared to other vendors (mostly) were good ones. I’m thinking about that as more or less defusing my initial concern. Maybe spending a few hundred to try out a couple good used cables is worth it after all.
N.B. Here are some other policies I found out there. None make TMR seem unreasonable, but they do vary a bit. All policies below apply to used, closeout, and refurbished gear as well as to new gear.
Echo hifi is 3% after 3 days (to cover credit card transaction) and then 20% for any return after that (up to 30 days).
Paragon Audio has a 15% restocking fee.
Upscale Audio has no restock fees up to 60 days and (as far as I can tell) no credit card transaction fee.
Crutchfield, Audio Advice, Audio Classics, and Music Direct can opt to charge restocking but does not have it as an across the board policy.
Hawthorne stereo does not mention restocking on used gear.
You people make me laugh. I would like to see anyone here own a business. The policy changes seem pretty reasonable to me. Doesn't eBay charge 10% on sales?
Have said this before, TMR & Holt Hill Audio are my go to shops. It's pretty great when the owners list their cel phones as the company contacts. Can't get more personalized than that. TMR appears to have a wider selection of hi-end gear but HHA has incredible vintage speakers & compnents. I don't know where they source them but most everything on their website is beautiful. Last year I purchased an Innous, Zen from TMR - as always, easy transaction all around and this spring I purchased a spotless Sansui, AU-9500 for my summer place from Holt Hill, came in three days from purchase, as described & looked like it was storred for 45yrs. Just my experience but so far, I believe you cant go wrong with either of these options. There are however posers out there (no negatve energy here and wont list anyone in particular) so take your time, do your research and pick the right spot to give your business to.
They have to stay in business, and I’m sure perhaps some individuals were taking advantage of returning equipment. I’ve purchased from them before and they are a reputable company. Sounds very reasonable.
The one transaction I had with them, was a good experience. I traded in my N-100 for a new N-200, I was offered a fair trade in, the N-200 was in the range I was hopping to be in, so I grabbed the deal. As far as the restocking fee, it seems reasonable and fair.
They are absolutely loosing money with a 5% restock fee, the new policy is more than fair. I would argue that it is too low.
It is hard enough for any business to keep the lights on these days, especially ones that are SUPER stock heavy. Remember it literally costs them money to have a piece of equipment in stock (carrying cost), and more money to let someone try it out for 30 days (opportunity cost), and more money to run your credit card - both in paying the CC fees and in paying the employee to run the card, box and pack the items, accept the items back in to stock, re-list them on the website. Not to mention the actual purchase of the packing materials, and the monthly costs associated with the physical space to store these items. They are absolutely loosing money with just a 5% return fee.
Does anyone really have to explain why a business supporting a location and the staff, customer service, etc. that goes along with it has higher prices on used items than your neighbor?
That said - I do see their used prices start high market, and gradually come down over time, seems reasonable to me. I have also gotten a couple low trade in quotes from them and decided not to go that route - although I have done fine with their consignment end. The convenience was well worth it on a few things.
Was just there last wk to pick some stuff up.they have a new music showroom that was very professional.staff was very helpful lifting big speakers in the trailer.they are like satin very tempting.have bought alot from them with no problems.have not had to return anything yet. Got to see the photo shoot of how they take all thier pictures of product to put on line.it was like a model shoot well done.i give them thumbs up.they had a sense of humor too.thanks for all the good times tmr
Some of their new closeouts are really good deals. Additionally I thought I had an issue with my new amp. I contacted TMR and they were super responsive. Cyrus returned my email Sunday night (their Monday AM) and got me straightened out.
TMR contacted me that afternoon and offered me a good deal on another Cyrus or return, or credit toward something else. All was good but they were proactive and seemed to be all about my satisfaction. Can't ask for more than that.
5% barely covers their credit card transaction fees (and may not cover them completely depending on the credit card used), let alone their other costs associated with handling a return.
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