For those of us with subwoofers, I’m curious whether you thought integrating it was easy or difficult. That’s it.
just wondering why the curiosity when you don’t use a sub as you say it’s not needed ?
or are you thinking of getting one now and want to know what other members went through?
i started with one and soon after added a second one. was not hard adding them to the system. only thing i might have done differently and still can is get longer cables as would give more options for placement.
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I just put a REL 9 into my system and it was fun. LD let me demo SVS and REL. The only thing hard was determining whether to go with 2 small subs or 1 big one. I decided to blow current budget on one big one and then scrape cash until i could afford to get a 2nd unit. Only regret is I did not demo 2 smaller units.
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I would say the degree of difficulty for me was moderate.
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Subs are a pain in the pitootie. Adjusting it so it sensed not heard means that you have to unplug it (no power switch) to do a comparison...so I bought a second one??? The first configuration left and right of center just wasn't right Lots of muddy overbearing bass. They are currently stacked and turned way down. I'm pairing them with high efficiency speakers and the gain curve of the speakers doesn't exactly match the subs so they're set to work best at a specific volume.
The biggest issue is the recordings. The amount of bass energy from one recording to the next is exaggerated with the subs. Depending on the track used to set them, the next tracks have way to much or way to little.
That being said "Poema" by Eduardo Niebla • Antonio Forcione is way to much fun to be without them.
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I’ve had Rel subs for 20 years and have never had any issue integrating them.
Now on another note, What are "DBA people"
DBA = double Blind A**holes
Don’t burp at all, Ditch bunny assoc, dirt build assembly?????????
I Hate anagrams because they are used W a a a y too much
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Presumably: Distributed Bass Array
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The first time with subs was not great. I got into home theatre once (not sure why, maybe I hit my head and thought it was a good idea haha) but the sub was too big, too bulky and ported. It never really meshed with HT or audio. The 2nd time was strictly for stereo and it went together much better. I had a better designed sub, non ported, better acoustics in another room and it sounds superb. I think my planning and integration was better. The 2nd sub was Rythmik and the first was SVS. Also I ditched all the advice that stated "you must tune the sub to your room acoustics by measuring and adjusting and measuring some more". I did my tuning by ear and it sounds fantastic.
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My older REL Britannia B1 wasn't hard at all since it was set very low to run with full range speakers. And it has plenty of adjustments for fine tuning. Other subs have been a bit more difficult.
I'm now close to a DBA person with three sealed SVS subs doing a very good job in my room. But, for one single seating position, I'm not positive they top the B1 set properly on its own.
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just wondering why the curiosity when you don’t use a sub as you say it’s not needed ? or are you thinking of getting one now and want to know what other members went through?
@riley804 - Since you seem to be new here 😁 I like to talk about subjects that don't necessarily impact my system right now. It makes the place more interesting than just talking about future purchases.
Also, I have used a sub in my stereo, but right now it's over on my HT. I'm pro sub in general, my posts about why I chose not to use one right now is more about showing how rooms work and how much more important measurements are than specs.
Please don't read this as a cry for help. I'm genuinely looking to ask the community how hard a time they have had with subs. My assumption is it's relatively hard but by asking others I get feedback to validate or refute them.
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I auditioned a REL T/9X in my system. Once I understood, that in my particular set up, the subwoofer needed to be plugged into the power conditioner, it was very straightforward. Getting the level and the crossover just right took a few days but the result was well worth the time I spent. It made for a very nice addition to my system.
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@erik_squires
Since you seem to be new here 😁
definitely not new here 😀. i read what goes on here and i just don’t feel the need that i need to reply to every post on here.
Please don't read this as a cry for help. I'm genuinely looking to ask the community how hard a time they have had with subs. My assumption is it's relatively hard but by asking others I get feedback to validate or refute them.
i am sure you can figure it out.
the hard part is deciding which one ( or how many to get) and size.
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initial set up to sound good, was quick and easy...took some time to make fine adjustments, but not difficult, just listening and adjusting...then having a friend over so that one could listen while the other adjusted was a great help...all subs were REL...speakers were floor standers, monitors, and Magnepans (each in different systems)...
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I am one of those DBA devotees and I feel that a distributed bass array, by its very nature, mitigates a lot of the difficulties inherent in single subwoofer integration.
Unlike single sub placement, it is almost impossible to screw up a DBA.
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I didn't think it was to bad. I have a dedicated treated 11.5 x 14 room.
I have a pair of subs, moved them around the room while using REW to measure each position. Once I got the placement close to my liking I then used the on board adjustments of the sub and my Anthem ARC to dial it in.
Getting them placed was a couple hours and tweaking them took longer but you'd expect that.
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I have two systems employing subs, one with DBA and one without.
The one with the DBA set up the fastest. I didn't have to mess with the sub locations and setting the amplifier controls was a breeze.
The other uses a single sub and I had to move it around quite a lot to find a spot that it could be heard at the listening position that was not also in the way. Where I wanted it and where it needed to be were quite different.
In both cases the subs are set to be operational below 50 Hz so no integration problems at all.
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I am on the side of they are a pain in the butt… well, were. I hear they are much easier to deal with now.
I bought four B&W 800 series (2 for audio) 25 years ago. Adjusted by ear and analytically using test tones and SPL. My system always sounded better with them but never did they sound perfectly integrated… I am sure my fault. But when I bought my current speakers I did so with the intent of not needing subs. I am very happy with the perfectly integrated sound.
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No problem integrating my modest Paradigm sub-woofer into my system. I put it in spot in the room that the instructions suggested would be good. I followed the instructions as to how to connect it up. I put one of my stereo test CDs (I have one, for example from Stereophile) into the CD player, cued up the frequency test cuts.and adjusted the subwoofer's volume & extension by ear. True, I had to get out of my listening chair several times to twiddle knobs, but it wasn't long before I got, as they used to say, close enough for concert. Over the next couple days I fine-tuned the volume and position of the sub by ear.
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I currently have a pair of Martin Logan 212 subs which were middle of the road to set up. The software gets you in the ballpark but you really need to use your ears to adjust the phase and the output level. I am running speaker cables from my speakers to the subs and I noticed a big difference between the speaker cables I used.
Prior to the Logan’s I have used several different REL subs and I always found them the easiest to integrate. I wanted to go with another pair of them instead of the Logan’s but the retailer I buy some of my gear from doesn’t carry REL. The Logan’s sound really good but they take a little more work to dial in than the REL’s.
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I have Vandersteen Quatros integration is perfect and easy
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Rythmiks! Great subs, and so far easy integration.
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In over 90% of Loudspeakers a good sub or 2 is always much more articulate.
and go much lower in Bass. I have the SVS4000SB subs , even one is a substantial upgrade and sound fast tunefull and defined Sealed Bass is faster and more tunefull to below 18 HZ not many speakers can’t compete with that
1200watts over 4,000watts peak for $1700 each with a great usable app
a true audio bargain IMO.
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I have found it very easy to integrate a REL S510 between either my Magnepan 3.7 or Thiel 2.4’s in a smaller (11x 15 well damped room) as long as I only care about my single listening position. If you need to accommodate multiple listening positions or difficult room geometry it will likely prove much more difficult. I have found moving around my room from my sweet spot drastically changes integration as would be expected. Many here suggest using a mic and software in those cases.
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My sub experience was very easy. Put the 2 (custom 18") subs in the corners where they belong (MUCH easier said than done - very heavy.) Hooked up the amps to the subs (one per sub), connected the crossover / LP filter to the amps, connected separate cables from the preamp to the crossover. Fired up the preamp and rest of the system. Fired up the crossover, then the amps. Played some music with REAL bass - Saint-Saens, Ravel, Respighi, Stravinski... Adjusted the crossover level as the music played. All good. Done.
Done.
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Like most anything it’s not hard if you apply the right tools in this case a sound meter or sound meter app.
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It wasn't hard at all, it was fun. I enjoyed the "subwoofer crawl",messing with the crossovers, plugging and unplugging ports.I have two HSUs and one SVS.If the HSUs ever stop working I would have all SVS.Controlling all of settings from the listening chair is wonderful.
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I have two REL S/812. The reason for two is mono block amps. I found the setup to be quite easy and once dialied in, the improved sound is well worth it. The only issue I have is playing the occational disk/LP that is very heavy in the low-end bass. Then the subs are just a little too present. But overall, they are spot on the majority of the time, and if I have to turn them down a click or two at times it no big deal.
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I have a pair of Sopra 3s that I tried to integrate with a pair of REL s/812s. I tried for months to get them to sound acceptable in my room, even broke out the REW software. But no matter what I did those RELs wouldn't integrate well enough.
Someone proposed the idea that I didn't have enough control over the RELs and that they wouldn't necessarily go deep enough anyway. They said try to audition a pair of Rythmik f12s instead because of the number of controls on their back plate.
Well after a few months I did manage to get a pair and I found them extremely easy to integrate into my stereo system. And it only took me a few days in total to get it right. I then gave back the Rythmik f12s, sold off my REL S812s and bought a pair of Rythmik G22's.
Couldn't be happier... Although I'm thinking about buying one more pair of them.
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It depends what you are trying to do / solve with subs. I have an extremely difficult problem so the solution, including using 2 subs was also difficult. The problem could not be solved without subs as placement was critical, simply buying a pair of speakers or amp with more bass only made the problem worse.
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In the early ’90’s, I tried like heck to integrate a sub into my two-channel music system. All the subs I dragged home just didn’t integrate well since they were all essentially home theater subs that were non powered with passive internal low pass crossovers. It just didn’t work and I gave up. All of the cabinets were either band pass cabinets with just a port exiting the box or a typical down firing, ported cabinet. There seemed to be no such thing as an audiophile subwoofer back in the early ’90’s other than maybe some JBL models which were not obtainable to a broke kid right out of college.
Fast forward to 2020 when I started planning a completely new 2 channel system and with nearly 30 years of more experience (especially in the pro audio area), integration of a pair of 18’s was very easy. All passive speakers with outboard electronic x-over made it easy. Also, a much better budget certainly helps!
My 2nd system in another room is also using a pair of 12" low frequency drivers in sealed cabinets supplementing 8 inch two way stand mount speakers. Again, passive sub cabinets crossed over by an outboard Sumo crossover into dedicated subwoofer amplifier and dedicated mid-hi amp. It’s easy when you’ve done it a few times and know about how things should be initially set up (crossover point & slope, gain structure, etc.). Tweek a few things with the ears and one is good to go.
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Slightly off topic and I apologize...
It's great to be reading these threads on subwoofers and hearing how many people are embracing the use of subs. Also, there are true audiophile subs available now which, as I alluded to in my earlier post, just were not around when I started this hobby 30+ years ago. All positive/fun stuff for this hobby we enjoy!
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With a high pass crossover it was very easy in multiple rooms and systems. Without it , it was very hard and honestly never right.
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I’d say it was maybe a 7 on a scale of 1-10, 10 being the most difficult. Difficult in terms of finding the best placement for sound quality and aesthetics. I think I found the best setup for the room I have them in. I could probably spend more time but I have them dialed in pretty good right now. They really disappear and were definitely worth the time integrating them in.
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Recently traded out my older REL T2 for two smaller REL T5x's paired with B&W 805 bookshelf speakers. Significant sound stage improvement and separation, plus a more balanced low end. It does take a little time and effort to get the integration right, but the results are worth the effort. Plus it is fun to do. You will be able to do this. PS wife walked into the room once setup and said I hate to say it, but it does sound better. No finer praise indeed.
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very very easy with lyngdorf amp 😁
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I don't think there's a standard answer. It depends on
1. The size of your room.
2. Room treatments.
3. The size (lower frequency extent) of you main speakers.
4. Your requirements, whether it be gentle underpinning or thumping bass.
In my case my room is treated and my main speakers go down to about 70Hz
I prefer gentle underpinning, and with the main speakers disconnected I adjust so I can barely hear mail vocals. Dead easy
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In my experience it depends on the sub and speakers. I have an svs sb16 ultra. It was easier with my klipsch than it was with my tekton's. The tekton's go lower so I had a flatspot in the low midrange so it took a bit of work to fix it.
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I have a cheaper sub (Gallo Acoustics TR3) which I enjoyed setting up with my Spendor D7.2s. Before that I just didn’t have the low end in the room, with the sub it filled out the sound how I like it. Took a few days of moving it around, getting up repeatedly to change settings etc, but I am now very happy with it and feel it is as well integrated as it could be. From this experience I wondered what a better sub could do and auditioned a REL S/510 at a dealer with my same speakers, I spent a whole 2 hours trying to get it to integrate and couldn’t, it was always too present. This was even having the gain close to its lowest setting, it just sounded so boomy. It was very frustrating as I thought a better sub would enhance my system but perhaps it was too much sub despite RELs website recommending it. I also wondered if the dealer had set it up wrong given I could barely turn up the gain without it booming through the room. So I’ve had a mixed experience, however in my current system I love my subs integration and wouldn’t be without it.
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I don’t have much experience with subwoofers so my contribution may be worthless. Easy or hard? I suppose the question is closely correlated to expectations? To me, proper integration means the sub blends rather seamlessly with the main speakers and nothing sticks out like a sore thumb. I don’t know, but for a seamless integration the impact of the sub is usually small so as nothing sticks out like a sore thumb. A small but appreciable difference. In my case, I would say easy but as mentioned above, the impact of the sub in my system is not very significant or earth shattering.
I’m still trying to figure out if a superior sub will bring a more significant difference to the system, and whether the integration of the sub will be equally easy or require more effort. I will soon find that out..
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I use two Velodyne HGS-15s in the front corners with an SMS-1 acoustic bass manager that makes integrating them pretty easy. The surprise for me was a third HGS-15 in a back corner that takes LFE from a Bryston SP3. It's not used for music, but often adds an interesting effect for HT.
db
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Easy (REL S/510). Suggested corner position? Nope. Put sub in listening position, crawl around, find optimal, set level and crossover. Enjoy.
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I have a single REL T5i accompanying a pair of Janszen P8's.
Integration was pretty easy.
The T5i (8" down-firing) is about the smallest sub I could use and still make a difference. With room-coupling, it's enough to level out the frequency response from about 10hz to 35hz. I used REW (frequency response analyzer) to help find a good location.
I tried a much larger , more expensive REL sub but returned it. I found it a little overwhelming. It did not seem to make the system sound better overall and was too heavy to move around easily by myself. Still, I'd like to try one of the smaller Rhythmik subs, just to see if something larger could pressurize the room better without adding distortion.
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I am surprised that the MJ Acoustics subs aren't more popular. Once you decide on placement, everything else (gain, x-over, phase etc) are all adjustable by a small remote. Made it very easy to integrate into my system all by myself.
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Hi All,
My experience with a Magico A1 Sub has been a 2 year nightmare! Software, downloads, microphone etc… I have had better luck with my $650 Klipsch sub from my AV system. 2 years, hours of my time and thousands of dollars later, it has become a dust collector at best. Can anyone out there help? Thanks!
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I put the subs between my speakers pointing them toward the wall. Sat there for 20 yrs. Then I retired and started revisiting my music setup. Bought some bass traps and put springs under subs. Before this the bass was boomier with standing waves. Now the bass is rich, deep and much more satisfying. I use a electronic crossover set at 100 Hz. Adjusting the main speaker and sub levels is easy. The bass sounds the same throughout the room.
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Magico ASub not A1 Sub, sorry. Being used with A5’s.
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I spent pretty significant time setting up my sub, but it was a labor of love. For reference, I spent even more time setting up my analog front end--an ongoing exercise, and even more time than that finding the correct placement for my main speakers.
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Two houses ago I had two Velodyne 12” subs and I NEVER thought that I had them setup perfectly. Now I have a SVS 2000Pro and the software is very helpful, but for my listening ( Bill Evans Diana Krall Jerry Garcia) I seem to forget to turn it on.
All the best.
JD
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