Depends. The 30k speaker might be bringing in a larger amount of pleasure than the soundbar person, but the audiophile still sees a way to improve it.
To use the classic example:
"It is better to be a human being dissatisfied than a pig satisfied; better to be Socrates dissatisfied than a fool satisfied. And if the fool, or the pig, are a different opinion, it is because they only know their own side of the question."
John Stuart Mill, Utilitarianism (1863)
So what do you think, OP? Would you the pig/fool or the human being/Socrates?
In my philosophy, the person who is totally enjoying an experience is 'winning' over somebody who is not. Might not even be 'winning' or 'losing', just 'different'.
It depends. Perhaps the person who spent $30K on speakers can replace them with $40K speakers with less inconvenience than the other guy can upgrade his soundbar.
The 20k atmos guys might have blown the daylights out of the 500 dollar soundbar guys or the 30k speaker (60k, 80k whatever stereo) guys, it appears....Whenever i talk to those guys on the facebook groups, they seem very satisfied, might be the real winners...
p.s. they also seem to have rooms designed from scratch, spent more cash on the same (On the other hand, room construction is like kryptonite for super audiophiles).
Hey I remember (speaking of analog) back in 2012 I was getting into Vinyl heavy and one of my early turntables was a REGA P3 with a Dynavector 10X5 cartridge, this was a very fun time indeed, lots of loud listening sessions was a toe tapping wanna get up and move with the music great time. Then I had to keep upgrading until I arrived at a point where my system is so sensitive now I have to be very discerning on what I place on the platter. My JA Michell Gyro SE turntable with Dynavector 20x2 low output takes all the great qualities of the P3/10X5 combo but elevates the refinement several levels. There are days when I miss that fun sound that wasn't so particular. So I say any system that makes you smile or you get goosebumps or you wanna get up and dance is where it at!! no matter the cost.
It has less to do with the equipment than it does with the person. Some people are more likely to be content with what they have. Our upbringing or early life may have programmed some of us to appreciate what we have more than others. I never would have believed I would own the system I have back when I was beginning this insane journey. Hard work and patience pays off.
If all you've heard is the soundbar and it works for you, that's winning. How could any speakers, regardless of price, be winning if the listener isn't happy with them? But, chances are they won't be happy with anything as long as there is something more expensive out there.
Yes I buy all my speakers used.i go pick them up myself so they don't get damaged.what a wounderful journey.just enjoy the hobby don't worry be happy .I think that's a song.used amps streamers spinners not the bike.enjoy the music and the hobby.
When I was 10-12 yr old kid, I listened to music broadcast on AM radio. We had a GE radio with short-wave capabilities, but only a single speaker. Whether it was Beatles, ABBA, or Beethoven's 5 symphony, I heard all these in mono AM broadcasting. My neighbors were music lovers too. One family owned a gramophone radio and played records to much of my amusements as well as delight. Another neighbor was crazy about Jim Reeves and I heard and learned lot more about Jim Reeves and other rock stars than myself. Another neighbor went out of his way to listen to Beatles.
I didn't know anything about stereo until I heard a cassette player/recorder boom box with two detachable speakers at another friend's home. His dad played the demo cassette and I still remember the shock and Awe! I had no idea I was listening to music in stereo for the first time! Knew nothing about Hi-Fi either.
Now that I am a grown up and still listen to Beatles, ABBA, Jim Reeves, and yes, have 5 different version of the Beethoven's 5th symphony. I listen to music in an expensive set up and any electronics that I heard as a young boy cannot hold a candle to the current set up. Many options to playback my favorite music including records, CDs, FM/HD radio, and yes cassettes too.
I asked the young boy, "Who do you think enjoyed the music most, you then or me now?" He smiled and replied "We both enjoyed music then and now." Man in the mirror also smiled and whispered, "Can't agree more."
I love music. I love listening to music and music as a hobby including setting up different systems and listening on the go. If I’m enjoying something I’m “winning”. If I’m doing something that’s supposed to be for pleasure like listening to music and I’m not enjoying it I’m “losing”. I’m a competitive person. I like winning more than losing.
The Cambridge English dictionary defines "audiophile" as: "a person who is very interested in and enthusiastic about equipment for playing recorded sound, and its quality". In order to get there, I think one first starts at becoming a lover of music.
I'm not the kind of audiophile that is constantly tweaking his sound system or frequently "updating" in order to attempt to make improvements in sound fidelity. For example: I've only had 2 turntables (maybe half a dozen cartridges), 3 amplifiers (i.e. 2 receivers and my present integrated amplifier), 2 CD players and 4 different sets of speakers for my two-channel system in the last 53 years. To be honest, I probably would have made more updates or bought more stuff if I'd had more disposable income along the way. However, there is something to be said for being content in one's time and space. Do you really need a 50-thousand-dollar sound system in a 12' X 15' college dorm room? Would that sound "better" than a quality 5-thousand-dollar system in the same room? Maybe louder but better?
I have a couple audiophile friends who are constantly asking, sometimes prodding, me to make "updates" or "improvement" in my sound system. They don't seem to understand or comprehend when I respond that my system is about optimum for the space or sound room (i.e. 14" X 23" living room) I have now. Could I make substantive, palpable improvements in sound fidelity? Sure! I could spend more than the sum total of all the major components I have now on a new set of speakers and/or a new amplification source. However, would this render a substantive, significant, palpable "improvement" in sound fidelity? The sound would be different, to be sure, but "better"? Would the cost be justifiable? Well, this would be in the ear and budget of the beholder, of course. At this point in my audiophile journey, as far as I'm concerned, the next best "update" or "improvement" I could make would be to buy or build another home with a dedicated sound room. At that point, I could buy more toys.
The term "intelligent ignorance" comes to mind. Sometimes "not knowing" is "smarter" than "knowing." We got a gift of a bottle of wine that was 5x what our typical wine costs. Big mistake. No, we're not spending 5x for wine these days. We only upped the ante by 2x because our appreciation of good wine clicked up a notch. But that's still 2x to get us to a "wine worth drinking" these days when we were totally satisfied with our "standard" wine of the day(s).
Same with audio. Sports cars. Bikes. Etc.
The song "Comfortably Numb" may have a literal interpretation here?
Socrates is not satisfied or unsatisfied. Socrates is not a passive consumer of cheap speakers or highly costlier one. Socrates think, experiment and learn acoustics with anything cheap or costly and end always appreciating what he did.
A question not well posed will gave useless answers.
«No one enter here who did not know acoustics» Plato pupil of Socrates reading Audiogon thread.
External judgement, why should you care. Internal judgement, whatever floats your boat, you make up a story in your mind, this your truth, if goals all there is, missing out on much. $30k speaker person is audiophile, this is a journey filled with many ups and downs, learning experiences, soundbar person not on this journey, end of story.
That’s simple. The person who is happy with what they have is the winner. My brother for example, is very happy listening to the same music that’s been on his phone for years and listening to it from the 1/4” speakers in his phone.
Being happy with what you have or at least what you have at the moment is usually based on having realistic expectations. I really enjoy both a great song on my average car system as well as my very nice home system. Similarly, I enjoy watching my high school grandkids play sports & appreciate that level of talent & effort as well as watching the pros play at an elite level. I really enjoy a simple bowl of Vietnamese noodles in broth ( Pho) & also a top meal at a good fine dining restaurant.
I can't remember a more entertaining group of posts to a thread than this one?
It's always good to get caught up on some John Stuart Mill quotations.
My answer to the question is yes, everybody's winning. The only guy that's not winning is the guy that isn't playing. But he's probably winning at something else like stamp collecting or something.
Doesn't matter how much the setup cost, the one who is winning is the person who is using it!!! Have a friend who is big into audio (I got some of his hand me downs) he almost never uses his system, and is constantly upgrading it. My main system gets used more in one day, over his for a couple months. It's sad.
In my house, the HT room has 9.4.2 Atmos, sounds fantastic! All modern components, perfect speaker placement, all DSQ'ed up. Movies are at times better over the theater. Music is just ok.
The bedroom has a $700 Polk soundbar, use it almost every day for music when getting ready, it's sounds ok
The main 2ch system is all vintage and analog (sans streamer) and it gets used for at lest 6 hours a day, sometimes much longer. It sounds fantastic! I stare at it in amazement, it transports me places and times. I get lost in it.
All of my systems in my entire house, cost less then my friends new bookshelf speakers he just got a couple months ago, but hasn't used yet, his new integrated has been delayed.
I think the winner is the guy who buys the 30k speaker used for 15k.
This. I wouldn’t have the system I have without the guys that buy the stuff new and get tired of it after 6 months!
I would suggest, unfortunately, that the $30K speaker guy is probably more representative of humanity: 100K years ago, two tribes lived on opposite sides of a mountain. Both had equal access to water, fruits, and game. Due to genetics, one tribe had a tendency to be less satisfied with what they had than the other. Which one survived? Unfortunately it was the less satisfied tribe because their dissatisfaction caused them to invade and kill the other tribe before they realized the grass looked greener but it wasn’t. Then they invaded the next tribe over as well.
Unfortunately we’ve evolved from the tribe programmed to be unhappy and jealous. The happy tribes didn't make it.
Winning or losing is NOT = satisfaction or dissatisfaction.
Satisfaction is better than dissatisfaction regardless of cost.
One can enjoy more than one pair of speakers of non-identical costs.
Audiophile vs non-audiophile have different priorities which leads into differences in spending on audio components- seems pointless and illogical to try to link cost with satisfaction
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