Speaker Cables? why all the hype for expensive speaker wire?
After listening to many speaker cables, I am listening to basic 14 Gauge, high purity copper speaker wire and find myself shaking my head. Does this basic speaker wire sound better than cables many times the price? I am really starting to ponder that question. I think I am hearing things on my records I never heard before and better balance of sound. What are your thoughts?
there are so many variables in judging cables that an open ended question like that is unanswerable (although it will get lots of answers). and unlimited cynicism and sarcasm......the way of Audiogon on these types of threads.
not all systems/contexts are created equal. some gear/rooms/set-ups reveal more differences regarding cables than other gear/rooms/systems. and specifically your amp/speaker relationship might tend to favor one speaker cable over another.
i’ve owned super expensive speaker cables (over $30k retail) in the past but for the last 10 years have owned expensive but not break the bank speaker cables ($6k retail) that happen to be made of the same cable as the internal cables in my speakers. i’m very happy with what i hear. i do recognize what those $30k+ cables did in some ways that i liked too.
cables are an important component in overall system performance, but ROI is not always good and there is no general rule. i have my most expensive cables for my phono cables and phono preamp; that is where i find the best ROI and the biggest investment justification.
You may have just proved a point about the differences that can be heard - moving to,quote "higher purity copper" and "hearing things on my records I never heard before", unquote. Like you did, sometimes we just have to try and compare. More expensive is not always better. Finding a good match with your speakers and your system is something that does not always occur on the first try. Most people give up and settle on whatever they buy. It can be fun to find regional colleagues to swap cables with and try it that way too. Whatever works for you.
Thanks builder3. I never though about ROI with cables. BUT I’ve NEVER paid for expensive cables. I’ve use and herd quit a few.
My DIY after years of tinkering and some good cable supplies have matched or bettered what I’ve herd.
I’m not kidding 170.00 usd vs 17,000.00 usd. The ONLY difference was some laser etched blocks.
I used a broken Oak pallet I found on the side of the road.. I pulled the staples and screw nails, cut and fit the pieces, did the router work, sanded it and gave the pieces two coats of urethane..
Our garage creation used a tiny router bit to scroll "Sound Boys" in his finest router free hand.
BTW that guy paid over 12k for one set and 22k for a second of Oden IIs. Not one of our little group picked one over the other.
Some folks like wearing knickerbockers, me double chap canvas or denim with leather work boots.. or JUST work boots.. I’m quit a sight.. :-) oh I forgot. I wear a hat too.
Does this basic speaker wire sound better than cables many times the price?
Well, there’s a nice pair of 8ft Acoustic Zen Satori cables on US AudioMart for $450, which is a little over half price. I’d say give’em a try — IME the Satoris are outstanding all-around cables for the price — and if you still like your cables you’re doing really, really well and you can sell the Satoris for close to what you paid for them. A near risk-free way to gain some good peace of mind there’s not a lot more to be had in your system even by spending LOTS more. FWIW.
Your opening statement and latest response says you're not sure and that you think you might be hearing something. If it's that close, enjoy what you have.
There's more out there than you can hear so I wouldn't come to any hasty conclusions. And, I wouldn't throw in the towel on a higher priced set of cables as it's starting to sound like a case of sour grapes.
What got me thinking about this was the fact that many people that I listen with have great equipment and just basic speaker cables. I was hearing things on their systems that I was not hearing on mine. It got me thinking, how can these systems sound so great with home depot speaker wire? so I have to try for myself. I have to say, I am surprised with what I am hearing to say the least. maybe i should have been using 14 gauge basic wire from the get go. lol
I compared zip cord to several more expensive cables. It sounded different. In some ways it was fine, but there were things lacking, especially in the lower registers. If you like the way zip cord sounds, you’re lucky, in a way! But almost everyone on this site has been through that, experimenting with different cables, and come to a different conclusion. It’s not just about the cost. I use Grover Huffman cables now, which are moderately priced (as these things go), but I prefer them to more expensive cables I’ve had before.
My current theory on speaker cables, cables in general, and every other component in an audio system is that they all shape sound into puzzle pieces. The puzzle pieces of that sound connect to the joining puzzle pieces of your ears and brain. The shapes of the ear and brain puzzle pieces are determined by the frequencies your ears can hear well and the frequencies your ears are failing at, and by your brain that enjoys whatever frequencies it happens to enjoy. Given all that, not everyone will like the same things or agree on their merits. And it explains why less expensive cables can sound better than expensive cables to some people.
I should add that hearing things you didn’t hear in another system proves very little. That happens when I listen to the cheap system in my car, for example, sometimes I can make out lyrics that are not as easily heard on the home rig. It’s just balanced differently. Inferior bass brings out details in the mids and highs. Kind of like stand-mounts do - they aren’t reproducing the full spectrum, so you hear what’s left a bit more clearly.
mikelavigne, I agree with you. It's all so system dependent. I have used XLO, Kimber, Cerious and a couple of others, and all of them were good in one way or another; but in my current system, the best cables are a rare Australian brand of bi-wire cables that are ribbon on top and solid core for the bass which I got as a free add-on with a DeHavilland amp that I bought from a member here years ago. Don't be afraid to experiment without prejudice related to price was the lesson that I learned.
What got me thinking about this was the fact that many people that I listen with have great equipment and just basic speaker cables. I was hearing things on their systems that I was not hearing on mine. It got me thinking, how can these systems sound so great with home depot speaker wire?
Simple: everything matters. Come listen to my system with lamp cord, patch cords, and freebie rubber power cords. I will pull them out of my junk drawer and put them in special just for you. You will be floored how good it will sound. Because if that is all you hear that is all you know, and you will be impressed. Just like with your friend's systems.
Then I will change just the speaker cable and your jaw will drop. Then I will change the interconnect. You will not believe it. Finally the power cords. It will be a whole new system. Each time. By the time we are done your mind will be boggling how anything could ever sound so good.
It's because of those wires you think don't matter.
IME, speaker cables are the most important of any cable. I replaced $6K ones with $1200 Silversmith Fideliums. Silversmith says that they are 3 times better signal transmission (I believe) than their silver cables at 1/10th the price. One of the best upgrades I ever made!
What i have noticed in certain speaker cables is that seem to embellish certain parts of the music like bass and some things seem distant and do not sound like real instruments. Take for example a hammond organ. Some systems make the organ sound like an organ, some make it sound like a sound. Same thing with certain even higher priced cables. This 14 gauge wire does not seem to embellish anything. lol
The higher the resolution in your system, the more you will appreciate things like high end cables if you have, or acquire, the listening skills. It should not matter to you what others think, you are building a system for your use and enjoyment. The higher the price, the nicer the nice. (Up to a point and you get to determine where that point is.)
Better cable to point . Would I spend $5 k on speaker cables I can’t afford them . I spent $1500 on a 2 m pair Wireworld Eclipse8 , and matching interconnects . not cheap but not expensive either , powercordsI build my own , I buy Furutech copper gold connectors and Nano fluid treated wire -Furutech for $650 as good as any $1200 commercial cables. it all depends how much you want to spend ,
@millercarbon where are you located? I would love to come by for a listen!
Anyway, we have been tinkering with making a few cables up to 5 different versions and we are getting pretty good at it now. Found some better materials and different ways to twist the wire - getting close now.
Well, different cables may sometimes *sound* different, but "do they sound better" is a separate question. If one has just spent mega-bucks on a length of wire one is going to be strongly inclined to *think* they sound better. In any case, de gustibus...
To me it’s all relative to the system! Why would you buy 30k speakers and then want to cheap out on the speaker cable and claim that it doesn’t make a difference! It obviously does or it wouldn’t matter on the quality of wire inside that 30k speaker imho!😎🎶
"Expectation bias, if you expect to hear something you will."
Oh gee patrickorlando! Did you make that up all by yourself? It's been said many times, and it sounds good, but it's not usually true for several reasons, the most important being that cables do sound different, and some better (to a given listener in his system) than others.
I think better speaker cables matter. Maybe not as much as your power cables do.
I just bought Townshend F-1 Fractal speaker cables. Should get here in 2 weeks. Big upgrade from my Straight Wire Crescendo’s.
I was thinking about upgrading my speaker cables for awhile but couldn't pull the trigger as I could differentiate them. But the Fractals are a different ballgame.
Someone hit the nail right on the head a few answers in. If noise is gonna enter any system, it will be on the input side of your system. As a club DJ Audio Video engineer of some 40 years now, I often laugh at the specs quoted by companies. I use high quality RCA cables to connect components to my amplifier which is a Primaluna Dialogue HP Integrated Valve driven amplifier. For the Phone stage I use a Cambridge MM pre-amplifier and my turntable is a brand new Technics SL1200 MK2 fitted with an Ortofon cartridge. To put things in perspective, I turn everything on and with everything at idle, I turn up the amplifier flat out. All I hear is a tiny bit of hiss. Naturally I'm hardly gonna play some vinyl at that level. I can't get much past the 10.o.clock position before it becomes painfully loud. I use 4 gauge high quality speaker cable on all the systems I own and any noise that occurs is never on the output side. If you wanna spend 30 K on speaker cable, it's your wallet, not mine. My CD player is a Pioneer CDJ and sounds wonderful using its on board DAC. Just remember that the shorter any cable you use the better. Cheers.
Terms like "expensive" and "basic" how relative, but I can give my experience.
For years I just use the basic Amazon speaker wire for all my stuff because it was nice and cheap. Then I got some tinned copper speaker wire from Jupiter condenser. To say that it was more detailed is to give a false impression. It was much more rich in all the microdynamics of all the individual instruments. Made the music so much more engaging. The kind of engagement which makes you forget about your gear and simply enjoy the music. Absolutely lovely.
My thoughts are ; there is no point in spending money on anything if you cannot hear an improvement. If $5 cables sound as good as $5,000 cables to you, stick with the $5 cables.
Got a scoop for all you guys on here, go check out silversmith filadium ribbon wire speaker cables, these things have gone up against cables up to $29,000 and beat them, check out what Greg Weaver has to say about them. And they're only $1,195 for 8 ft pair.
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