Speaker Cables? why all the hype for expensive speaker wire?

I guess when I had my original pair of speaker cables, I was searching for something that was missing so I changed cables.  I listened to them for a while and I have had friends who use just basic wire.  They have mainly vintage systems but I started scratching my head.  What I am I chasing?  So I attached my old cables and I have to say, what was I thinking?   lol

Assessment of cables without working with entire sets is playing at it and a waste of time, that is, if the goal is to actually move a system toward a directed goal of improved sound. That is why such misinformation as cables being system dependent arises. Actual use of several sets of cables across many systems would disavow that misnomer. But, most audiophiles do not have the luxury of such experience, and listen too much to the inexperienced. 

So, if the gripe is about expensive individual cables (IC, SC, PC, etc.), you're wasting your time anyway if you mix them. Few things more unproductive than someone who spends prodigiously to mix cables, using them entirely divorced from the design/intent of the manufacturer.  :(

Amen.

Cables are system and listener dependent. In some audio systems it is worth moving up from copper to copper/silver or to just silver to reveal more of the musical message and adjust tonality. Some listeners have better hearing and are able to discern finer details. They will notice the differences for sure. Most times the improvement is not correlated with the price paid, but as small as the improvement is it will better your musical experience. One can build relatively cheap a cable to receive 90% of the musical message, but if you want to capture another 8 - 10% you will have to spend a lot more money. Is the price justified? Perhaps yes if you have the passion and the money. Think how much you will spend going to live concerts instead of listening at home.

The fact that someone posts "only" $1195 shows how ridiculous the brainwashing has become.

Best IC and speaker cables I have used were the Synergistic Research Designers Reference 2 with active shielding.  Ended up selling them to go on the cable merry go round.  Ultimately I sold all the expensive stuff and went with Wywires blue for IC and some DIY type speaker cable.  Good bang for the buck, but miss those synergistic cables 

That's some theory...

My current theory on speaker cables, cables in general, and every other component in an audio system is that they all shape sound into puzzle pieces. 

This article technically explains the impact of audio cables on sound quality. What do you think? http://www.chenaudiolab.com/id49.html

If you're an AudioQuest fan ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwK4K0fBBhU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPBlWgNqK_g

If you have 40 min. of time ... a nice conversation about cables.  

@jjss49

You actually believed I was being serious.

That’s a joke in itself. If I'm going to buy something, I shop local or from trusted dealers close to where I live. Why must anyone buy something on this site? The forums are an excellent way to gather opinions, help others, and learn new things.

I normally get along with people. When you call me out, I become a dragon.

@mastering92

you have been on this forum only for 4 months, join date 3-23-2021 ... already 300+ posts, zero sales/purchase transactions, zero positive feedback

i read your comments on your ’system page’, seems genuine and altruistic, about helping others, but here you behave like a child, don’t even know how to insult someone in an adult way

@twoleftears and me... we have mutual respect, no more, no less, in this community -- developed through a collection of useful and helpful comments provided on music and gear over a significant span of time to users here

you... no respect earned, thus none gained

suggest you wise up, wake up, grow up, put away the keyboard - listen to more music, come to forums less -- if you have to be here, then read more, type less

How old are you? Disgusting 🤮 

mastering92320 posts07-28-2021 7:47pm@jjss49 
@twoleftears 

You two seem to like each other.
So when is the wedding?

If you can't afford the centerpieces at each table, let me know.
The rest is up to you. I'm not that kind or generous.

@twoleftears

Have you heard it for yourself? Nope, you’re an internet troll under a bridge. You wouldn’t say that to my face. You’re a snobby little donkey hiding behind a screen and chewing on grass. Someone ought to put you back in the barn.

i can assure all readers here that @twoleftears is not a troll

he is an engaged, serious music lover and knowledgeable audiophile...

mastering92,
You think a $500.00 rack system sounds great. Sorry if I don't trust your opinions on speaker wire... 
In case you didn't know, the Technics division of Panasonic makes some very pricey gear, but no, they wouldn't recommend pricier cable for a $500.00 toy system.

@mastering92 The audio shelf-system is the equivalent of a frozen TV dinner, and the wire that comes with it a plastic spork.

A good hi-fi is farm-fresh ingredients combined skillfully by a master chef. The ICs, SCs, and PCs could be many things, wine, sauces, nice crockery and cutlery, whatever.

Same with wine tasting.  Personally I am not sure I can tell much beyond a $25 bottle of wine.  But audio I am a little bit better.

lol 

i just don’t know why people who don’t have a decent system (and don’t aspire to have one) even come here and post this nonsense

i am a half decent recreational road cyclist, but not really a connoisseur of high end road bikes, but i don’t go onto the high end cycling forums, and post and post saying a $300 p-o-s aluminum bike is all the same as a $6k cannondale supersix evo...

“I bought a Hi-Fi shelf system”
Is that a new terminology for a Boombox 😂

mastering92312 posts07-28-2021 11:21amI bought a Hi-Fi shelf system. Only 500 bucks.

What is a Hi-Fi Shelf System? It sounds like something that includes speakers, amp, DAC, speaker cables, streamer or CD player, etc. etc.? 

I hate to break the news to you but regardless of speaker cables you use with it, a $500 "hi-fi shelf system" will sound like ..... a $500 shelf system. Hi-Fi or not

I bought a Hi-Fi shelf system. Only 500 bucks. 

It came with speaker cable that was exposed copper/ccaw on either end. It works. The system sounds great. If upgrading to mytical creatures cable made all the difference and vastly improved the sound quality of the system, Panasonic would have recommended it. Why would a manufacturer provide inferior cables with their own system? So I would need to upgrade it later?!

If you were in the business of selling speaker cables for many thousands of dollars, you would do your best to make them sound as scientific as possible. If you hear a difference that is fine. However, you should know this - The only difference any cable can make is NEGATIVE. I would not recommend using very cheap speaker cable (go for something with higher copper purity or PCOCC copper. 

The claims made about improving certain characterisitcs of sound in your system are completely unfounded. Think about it. Does the manufacturer already know about your  system? What have they tested with? What data and graphs are they referencing? Have indepedent listening tests been conducted with a team of experts?

Companies that push these products already know this - Most typical audiophiles have extra money to spend. Therefore, this is a business opportunity for them and a chance for you to enjoy something new.

You lookin’ at me? 

If you really want to find out if/how cables can improve YOUR system the cableco.com has a well stocked assortment of cables in their lending library to audition in your home.  Compare $100, $200, $2,000 cables and decide for yourself. I have no affiliation but have been a satisfied customer and was able to know with certainty how various brands and low, med, and high priced cables compare. 

Cables and interconnects do sound different. Putting aside the value discussion, because that is a personal decision, I do certainly hear differences. Much depends on the transparency of the chain. If the other components are very transparent, and capable of full-bandwidth performance, those differences and improvements will be more audible.

As an example, with a system consisting of a Pioneer receiver and Klipsch RP-600M stand mounts, the Synergistic Research Foundation Series speaker cables will not produce as dramatic an improvement as compared to, say Parasound JC1+ driving Magico S5. The second setup is so much more transparent and capable, the improvements yielded by the Foundation cables over other less-capable ones will be clear and present.

Spend big bucks on a smoking cable its great.

^^^^^^^^^^^ Awwwww Now You’ve Gone N Spoilt It ^^^^^^^^^^^^

Good post @punkrock67

I have to throw my 2 schillings into the hat, I have been into home audio since I was 17. What I have learned through this journey is buy what you can afford, their is no bad speaker cable, just better, solid core OFC speaker cable sounds cleaner, has what seems like a faster more defined bass response to the speakers and creates a larger more three dimensional space...but this principle only works with a high current amplifier, and neutral sounding speakers and can be slightly on the warm side, but if your gear is under powered, overly bright or tinny or or speakers that are poorly designed and your receiver/ integrated amp or amp and preamp lack that wide sound stage and or using reference speakers, it won’t matter what you use to amplify the signal to the speakers, it will sound like crap...so choose your amplifier based on being high current and not on how many channels of power, I’ve listened to 10 watt tube amps that blew away a 150 watt rated amp without breaking a sweat...so don’t fuss with cables, so much of the cost is in marketing and the fancy jackets they get wrapped in, the least expensive is the copper itself. If you got it, spend it, if ur on a budget go for straight copper if you like it lamp cord. I use cheap 14 gauge in my garage system and it sounds great..just have fun and don’t take it too seriously 

I love the smell of cables in the morning.

hahaha

the thread police have gone hog wild on this one!!!  

Acoustic Zen and harmonic technology are extremely good cables that’s because they use OCC single crystal wire which is far superior to anything ofc on the market.

I am definitely not a member of the Science! Police, however...

If what you claim were true, it should be extremely simple to demonstrate such superiority through measurements that can be translated to audible differences. Can you point readers to any such tests?

Surely the manufacturers of cables that include such wire would be keen to prove its superiority, no?

Acoustic Zen and harmonic technology are extremely good cables that's because they use OCC single crystal wire which is far superior to anything ofc on the market. But there are other companies that are charging an arm and a leg for OCC single Crystal AZ and HT are very reasonably priced, and all the manufacturers that use OCC single Crystal are buying it from only three places and Wan lung in Taiwan is the cheaper of the three. The other two OCC manufacturers are in Japan. So the only thing that will make a difference is how the cable geometry is designed and they're all pretty much the same whether you pay the high price of audioquest or the more reasonably priced of AZ and HT.

@johnnyaudiogoon - Hilarious and well articulated. Enjoyed a heavy laugh reading your post.

My father-in-law (who has his graduate degree in electrical engineering from UofI) tried to dissuade me in looking at pricier cables - bringing in his educational background and “science”.

I can’t wait to offer him some watermelon with mustard. 

danvigna,
Why on earth would you use McIntosh as an example? Their products are SO much cheaper than other brands like Soulution and Dartzeel.  

Whoops, I included one too many words in the edit  Omit "effects" after "prices".

Named after the economist who first studied it, Thorstein Vleben, The Vleben Effect is the phenomenon that higher prices effects create a higher perceived quality.  There is an entire industry of designer products offering consumers the comfort garnered from this perception.  Designer branded products are thr perfect example.  For me, the name McIntosh has continued to personifie this effect longer than any other audio company.   If their prices were lowered to coincide with manufacturing costs, people would not think it is as good, and buy something more expensive.  How much does anyone really think wire costs to make, and/or, stamp with your name?

Hello,so I hadn’t planned on chiming in until I read a comment on the second page about Audioquest type 4 speaker wire.All I can say is 7or 8 years ago ago I owned 5 ten ft. runs of it for a surround system. It worked wonderful for movies and tv,was reasonably priced, 150.00 a pc for 10 ft.run. I had a decent two channel set up in a separate room for music. That system was Parasound JC1 monos,BAT VK 52 pre,Dynaudio Confidence speakers, and Nordost Valhalla speaker cables,2 m. For kicks and giggles a friend and I switched out just speaker cable to hear the difference. First we tried the Audioquest type 4. I was completely amazed at how lifeless and terrible sounding it became. I knew the Nordost was better cable. I just wasn’t expecting such a huge,terrible sounding difference. I also had a set of Nordost Baldur speaker speaker cable we tried next. This was so much better than the AQ, and not that much more expensive. So this was my experience,with those components in the system. If your using Audioquest type 4 and happy, just don’t ever try a better speaker cable. You will hear an improvement. If you can’t,there’s an issue with your hearing or something. Sorry to burst your bubble,but you probably won’t hear it pop! Good day,John

@lloydc I have been a beta tester of GroverHuffman.com cables for 20 years.  His speaker cables have evolved at a slower pace with about four or five iterations in 20+ years.  His Empress speaker cables are excellent and his Pharoah speaker cables are superb.  Both are affordably priced and can be made bi-wired.  Such great cables at such reasonable prices. 

mee too -- all this talk of romans and food has me thinking about cacio e pepe for dinner!