At what price is one considered an Audiophile.
Audiophilia, what is is it?
Is it the love of music or the equipment that presents the music.
Or is it both?
What is the cost of admission?
How much does one have to spend on equipment to be considered an Audiophile, if it is truly the later than the music.
What has membership to this perceived exclusive club cost you?
I don't think the amount of money one spends has much, if anything, to do with one being an "audiophile". It is more about the passion that one has to experience music in its purest form. To bathe in its beauty and emotion whether you are listening to a $1K system or a $1M system. Take a look at the contributors on this site and you'll find a very wide range of income levels, but they are all certified audiophiles. |
@mrskeptic I simply asked the question and the answers have been very telling. I am very happy. @jasonbourne71 I guess I am out based on your post. Though AS did a nice review of the Freya + as did Stereophile. |
Cherry, said it very well. It is all about passion and personal investment, not money spent. I'd like to compare my audiophile activities with my amateur astronomy activities. I think in both you can spend a small fortune yet miss out out on the pleasures that the person making due with what they can afford experiences every time they engage. In both pursuits a very humble system can provide much enjoyment when used by a passionate person. Equipment is not the measure, but rather passion. Sure, I have a telescope with a 20" mirror that I must climb a ladder to look through the eyepiece, but I have friends who have equipment costing less than 1% of my investment who are just as passionate and in some cases get more out of their system than I do of mine. Sure, they can't see that quasar 10 billion light years away. But do they want to? In the audiophile space I self impose a tight, some would say impossible budget, but I get much joy from the sound I hear. All but my turntable and stylus were purchased used and all of my 300 vinyl records were purchased used. Yet I have a the passion to tend to this equipment and media so that I get great sound. In my experience you that get 90% of the performance by spending 1% of the big spenders. As time progresses you may want more than your system provides so you need to spend more. But at every stage, measure your passion. If you love it go for it, when it becomes a burden rethink everything. I use my system a few hours each day while I work from home and take the time for some critical listening when time permits. Do I wish it sounded better? Sure, but I know my room is currently holding back better sound. There is no easy fix there. Similarly, in astronomy I can't enjoy my equipment much at or near home. I need to drive 8 hours to a truly dark location and my investment in high end equipment starts to reveal itself. Someday I will buy a new house and select one with a listening room that allows for better soundstage and imaging. Perhaps then I will upgrade my equipment. Until then I am happy. My modest system audio :
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You are not completely wrong... But as with many illness, the cure is knowledge... Improving our hearing consciousness by acoustics basic concepts and experiments... For example most peoople are oblivious and unconscious of the destructive crosstalk efects in speakers listening... How to test it mechanically in near listening is a very important simple experiment... the price of your speakers will not do anything better here than less pricey one... Acoustics rule...
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$0. You are an audiophile if you love music, sounds, and notice and appreciate all the nuances you can experience in listening. Steve Gutenberg knew he was an "audiophile" when he'd spend time just listening to the various qualities of hiss between FM stations. |
+1 @nonoise re: your soul. |
For the term AUDIOPHILE, I'd say the BIGGER spending you have, the BIGGER audiophile you are. Audiophiles are the crowd educated by market and salesmen more than by experience or educational books. For audio hobbyists it is not necessary to that magnitude due to the larger education and experience scale. The LARGER this scale grows, the lower money you need to spend on audio per given quality. For me, all I need is my speakers to sound as close as possible to my accordion, piano and guitars. Nothing less and nothing more. |
@roxy54 sorry to bore you, I am new here. Thanks for being so gracious. |
@bigtwin maybe some day, maybe not. |
Most of you guys are right-money spent has nothing to do with it. It's all in your head. An audiophile is not the guy with the best music system, it's the guy who can sit down and enjoy what he has, probably tweaks speaker placement often to make sure he's not missing anything. (I am that way with my chair). And every time a new component enters the system, he marvels at the improved sound....... |
I think this question needs to broken into 2 segments: "Audiophile": the biological entity (the person) "Audiophile system": the hardware The "audiophile" person would possess the following attributes: - a "more sensitive antenna" than the "average" person related to the perception of sound quality attributes as a result of extended living, learning, and experiencing music (live and reproduced) in various venues - an expanded vocabulary related to the above. The ability to articulate those experiences (good and not-so-good) in terms shared by others with similar "pedigree." Openly invite others and particate in meaningful conversations. - an excellent working knowledge of system architecture, room acoustics, and application of current products and services to obtain outstanding sonic results. - an awareness of the areas where one’s system excels, as well as it’s limitations. The acceptance, or rejection, of those flaws is system dependent related to the sonic goals of the system (Reference, background, mobile, office, outdoor,space/budget dependent, etc) - frequently engages in any and all things related to "the hobby": forums, events (live and reproduced), reference materials, product reviews, blogs, etc. - most likely invests a higher percentage of disposable income in "the hobby" than the "average" person. But, is not a steadfast rule. - may, or may not own an "audiophile system." Or no system at all. The "audiophile system": - a system that would pass a credible "pier review" test with others deeply embedded in "the hobby" based on it’s ability to fulfill a particular purpose. Sorry, but a musically satisfying system for the owner that sounds like %^@# is not an "audiophlle system." "Price" would be measured on the scale of investment vs achievement of sonic goals. Some need to get off a few "exits" before others in this area. Side notes: A guy who takes a chainsaw and cuts an opening in his front doorway of his shack so he can get a pair of Altec Voice of the Theaers inside, might be an "audiophile." (Actually had a customer who did this) A guy/gal who installs a car audio system in a vehicle that is worth more than the vehicle. (Actually had a "club" that met this criteria back in the day) |
+1, @edgyhassle - To put it another way: "I refuse to belong to any club that would have me as a member." - Groucho Marx |
You might want to have a look at Stereophile's 2023 Recommended Components list. For loudspeakers, the ones rated "A (Restricted Extreme LF" start at around $1600 per pair for the Genelec G Three or KEF LS50 Meta. For integrated amps, the ones rated "B" start at about $1500 for the Cambridge Audio CXA81. Add a Bluesound Node streamer for $600, interconnects etc., and you're at about $4K. That's for all new components. |
If you are interested in listening to and assembling the components of a personal audio system, you’re basically an audiophile, regardless of any dollar amount threshold. It’s about the interest and enjoyment of this subject as a hobby. As you are posting on this forum it seems you may be one yourself. |
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Just the fact that you are on this forum means you are either an established audiophile or interested in becoming one. The amount you spend is usually the transition point where you go from audiophile to audiophool. BTW, there is absolutely nothing wrong with either version. The majority of us, including myself, would be phools if our budget allowed it! If you love recorded music and the gear used to reproduce it, welcome to the club. |
I remember when I was a kid in 1975, there were tons of 'hi-fi' shops around. You could get a modest receiver, turntable, and a set of speakers for $500. Later you might add a cassette deck. And everyone was an audiophile (at least us guys lol) cuz we took sound seriously, we went to each others' houses, spun records, and talked about sound. And, if there was a young clerk in our fave 'hi-fi' store, we used to hang out there and listen to stuff we couldn't afford. I just checked an inflation calculator and $500 then is a bit under 3k now. And arguably you can set up a listenable system for that. Especially in these days of globalism, computer design, and the ability to buy used stuff from all over. A couple of years ago we bought a condo in FL and of course I need a sound system, right? But trying to keep it minimalist with no 'stuff' as in no CDs etc. So we bought a Bluestream PowerNode 2i (I run the TV thru it too), a pair of I discovered that the speaker stands can hold sand, and we're near a beach, so when I explained to my wife the theoretical advantages of filing the stands with sand, she became an enthusiastic participant (she loves doing stuff that's free). Took us a couple of weeks to get enough sand to fill the speaker stands, but we got it done. When you tell someone you filled your speaker stands with sand, that makes you an audiophile when you know they think you're crazy. BTW that system was less than 2k, and probably sounds better than that receiver/table/speaker combo from 1975, for a third less money.
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@carlsbad2 +1! |
@chenry +more than you can hope for....or imagine....;) 👍
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"Audiophile" is a label, and it depends on who is doing the labeling. It is a state of mind and a commitment to a personal goal. It will cost something, in money or time. It isn't about meeting any particular spending goal. The person who seeks an opportunity to hear something rare and special, even if they can't buy or own whatever it is can be as much an audiophile as the person who teaches himself the necessary craft to build a music playing device that no one manufactures any longer for the sake of having the opportunity to hear music played. There are people who have carefully built their own speakers and amplifiers who may rightfully have a greater claim to be an audiophile than the person spending the price of a house on a sound system. The people who go on about spending floors for excellent sound and who dismiss those who don't spend those amounts just don't get it. The person who hand builds a unique loudspeaker from carefully curated parts and builds an amplifier to bring the best from that loudspeaker to reach their listening goal has traveled much farther toward the goal of an audiophile than most high-dollar audio shop customers ever will. |
IF: ...it makes you forget the day, and puts you into that 'zone' where you forget that you're experiencing devices and just enjoying the 'transport' you sought.... The price is irrelevant. Ear buds off the cell, thru electrostat phones off the mains. RatShack boxes from the garage sale driven by that 'vintage' from a friend, that led you to the 2nd mortgage stack in the basement with 'padded cell walls'.... You will spend what you want to You will spend what you have to You will spend what you shouldn't Pick your level of commitment... Get committed by your level of commitment.... "....just a little 'prick'......There......" *G* ;) I've spent more, and less....$, that is.... The amount of time? Can't put a number on that.....won't put one on it, either....
It follows me like a puppy....always ready to play....*s*
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I'll respond in a different way. When I brought my first good system back in 1979, nothing too fancy, but it sounded great (Marantz receiver, Advent speakers, Pioneer turntable with Shure M95 cart.) - you would call it a low-end audiophile system back then. It cost around 1200.00 (I don't remember the exact price, but that's close). Then with inflation, a low-end but good sounding system today would be around $5K. And that would buy you a pretty good sounding system today. Not $400K good, but a system that would impress the average person, and even an audiophile. But on he other hand, I had friends who had an Empire Turntable or an AR, a Shure V15 or Micro Acoustic, and maybe JBL 100 Speakers or Mirage. Which would have cost 4 times what Mine did and therefore would today put you into $20K. And of course you could go much higher then that. |
The cost argument is silly. When I was in my late teens I got a KLH Model 20 compact system because I knew it simply sounded better than any other inexpensive system. It just did. That approach has served me well over the decades and continues with my current heap that simply sounds great with components that are far from precious. You just have to listen to music and decide what sounds good, and judging by price is simply stupid. |
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The actual cost of music is next to nothing, a Qobuz subscription gets you more high quality music than one could listen to in decades (ok, that might be an exaggeration 😂). The equipment to stream it, amplify it, and speakers to listen to it on in a decent quality sound system would likely be $3k on the cheap end, less if used, the sky’s the limit from there! |
It is about passion for the gear, not price. The fallout from my assault on the low end has resulted in a garage full of boomboxes and mini-systems. As a self-proclaimed transport junkie, a high-end CD system starts at about 2K for the transport alone. If you don't get the transport right, the rest of the system will sound "mid-fi" no matter what you spend. Spending more on downstream equipment will only reinforce that "mid-fi" sound. |
Today I took two old amps,a Classe Ca 100 and a old AMC 30 watt tube model into the little local shop I frequent. I wanted him to check them out and get a clean bill of health ( they’re techs too ) before I listed them for sale. We ended up listening to both my amps and the monster Mark Levinson amp he had running before I came in. Other equipment was, vintage rebuilt Luxman pre, Aurender N10 server ,a korean dac that they import and Usher speakers. We listened to all types of music changing out the amps ( Classe still sounds great ) and ultimately he ended up buying the two amps, fine by me saves the hassle of shipping heavy amps. So all in all we listened to some pretty good equipment, and when I walked out a there it was the first time out of dozens of times hanging out in his shop that I was able to say to myself “ wow my system sounds better “. It cost me a pretty good sum to able to say that , was it worth it? Oh hell ya😀!
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I helped a friend curate one of the best sounding systems I’ve heard in real life (ie in a home not in a show room or audio show) for $3k. It absolutely spanks some $20k systems I’ve heard..
I think it’s about sitting back and being transported to the venue.. It’s possible ina very affordable way with some research and patience. personally I’ve rejected that label when applied to me.. I take it as a pejorative term. |
IMO cost has very little to do with being an audiophile. You can be an audiophile with your phone and a good pair of wireless earbuds, or an dongle DAC and a pair of cheap but good wired earbuds. So it really isn’t about the gear. It is about the intent of the listener to elevate their listening experience from just casual listening to one where there is an appreciation of the quality of the sound and/or the detail. As a matter of fact, if you never listened to recorded music and often attended live musical performances where the house system or performance gear was good, and you appreciated the sound and detail in the music and the performance, I would consider you an audiophile. |
I think audiophile is primarily a passion and frame of mind. When you are truly passionate to get the best possible sound achievable… and people think you are crazy. Often the test is monetary. Because the percentage you are willing to commit to your passion is a legitimate gauge. So the idea that an audiophile is someone who’s system cost more than his automobile(s). This has been true for all of my life… even when my car was a used cheap Datsun 1200 and now with a contemporary 4Runner and Lexus in the garage. It is about passion and commitment.
On the other hand there are audiophile components. These are built to exacting requirements where component costs are unimportant… sound quality is the only objective. These tend to start around $10K to $20K. So every aspect is optimized… the best… not cheapest subcomponents are used. So, budding audiophiles seek out off brands, used audiophile equipment and off beat techniques to get the best sound they can. |
Perkri summed it up for me. I have two systems, both modest compared to many here. My second system gets me about 75 % "there" compared to my main system....it cost a lot less , zero fuss , sounds great. I get a lot of enjoyment from it. I listen to it a lot more than I thought I would I love music and I have been thinking about what to play, not what I'm playing it on lately |
