I made a long post about the challenges we face in getting politics off the forum. It was removed. Nothing is going to change.
See you all after the elections
Regardless of what political messages are being spread around here it’s unfortunately true that the level of courtesy and how we talk with those we disagree with reaches a fever pitch before elections in the United States.
Too many talking heads in the mass media are modelling too much poor behavior and loathing of "others" and it’s filtering into this place which I like to hang out with for fun and to help others. What should be plain technical discussions are being infused with personal acrimony. If I wanted that for fun I’d work in a call center.
I’m taking a break from the A’gon for a while. I can’t say the toxicity it’s not affecting me either. This place is just not worth the anger and frustration it is causing of late and I certainly don’t want to learn how to behave by modelling that myself. Hopefully when I come back in 2025 Americans will again be relating to other Americans in ways that don’t involve criminalization or demonization and this place will be nicer. I also really am too old to be having "but he started it" excuses over what should be a fun and meaningful hobby. Be well all. See you in a few months.
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Erik, I hope you stick around. I’m going to inject some thoughts of my own, followed by insights by "experts’ on the subjects of unity and depolarization. Over 5 years ago, I set up a website for the purpose of identifying, acknowledging, and celebrating our common links and connections. This has been rewarding on many levels. Forums like these are a valuable tool for exchange of ideas and experiences, but also recognize the humanity of the individuals participating in the discussions -- regardless of their political leanings. Those with "common interests" often elevate those interests to include "purposeful bonds". In our case, helping others with problems, or expanding one’s knowledge base. The "bonds" often lead to what I call "heartstrings" -- genuine affection, friendship, respect, etc. Those "folks" who merely shared common interests on an audio forum have now become cherished friends. Erik, you have made many friends here, whether you realize it, or not. Identifying and validating the heck out of each other on a regular basis, make us smile, or make a crappy day a little less crappy. The true value of recognizing the humanity of people you’ll never meet (and, visa versa) is impossible to measure. Expand this exponentially and you might have just prevented a civil war. Good friends don’t punch each other in the face. Now to interject some thoughts from some of the smartest people I know: There are many groups involved in attempting to calm things down including: various groups with "unite" (or in my case YOUnite),More Like Us (enjoying politics free exchanges), Bridging the Gap (discovering that the "gap" between us is not as wide as we thought and what we think the position of others is grossly mischaracterized). As one of my colleagues recently stated: "We don’t have an "issue" problem (we’re not as far apart as we think). We have a "contempt and distain problem." I couldn’t have said it better myself. So, on these "little forums" we can be sources of "contempt and distain" or we can be the Kevlar that prevents things from blowing up. Our call. We do have compete control of the situation. It’s how we choose to react. I often ask those who want to inject inflammatory comments into a (peaceful) event: "What’s in it for them?" Not surprisingly, the answer is usually not: "I want to make the world a better place." Dominant personalities, desire to be "the smartest guy in the room", and other factors come into play. When ambushed by a highly emotional, rage-driven outburst, one of my friends at Uniteus recommends saying the following: "Gee. I didn’t know you felt that strongly about that. Thanks for sharing." Or, my own: "You’re a good person, and I know you support your party and/or candidate for the right reasons." I’m in a car club of people who own a 60’s British car with a Ford V8 in it. Yearly a group of us from all over North America, and some international participants, get together. This group of individuals is made of rural, urban, deep red, and deep blue roots. For the past 3 years, I don’t recall a SINGLE incident of someone being ambushed for their political beliefs. Or, politics being brought up at all. It’s about the cars, the people, the friendships, the food/drink, cruises, competition (autocross) and making our cars safer, faster, and more reliable. The point? This is what grown ups do when they get together. They love their cars and their friends, more than they hate their political leanings. As it should be. The past 3 major polarizing events that got us fired up to the point where some of us became radicalized (willing to hurt people and property) had some elements of disinformation attached to them. Or, perhaps, the premise, itself, was based on misinformation. The "truth" was obtainable. But, we weren’t interested in obtaining "the truth.". So, there we were. Beating the crap out of each other, over things that were, in some respect(s), not true. Tragic. And, heartbreaking. It’s been said that democracy only works as well as the mean sanity level of a society. This explains a lot about our current situation. As much as I want to take the high road here, I’m afraid the days and weeks after the election are going to be quite tumultuous . BOTH sides are doing to be really pissed if they don’t win. We may be looking back yearning tor the "good ol’ days" -- the 5 month period BEFORE the elections, when we just yelled at, and threw insults at, each other. Erik, you can count me as a "friend". I pledge to never contaminate this space with anything that does not add value to the discussion. Hope you stay with us for the next few months. You’ll be missed.
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American politics Don't come hangin' 'round my door Now politics, stay away American politics Don't come knockin' 'round my door Now politics, get away American politics Don't come hangin' 'round my door Now politics , get away American politics I gotta go, I gotta get away Bye-bye, bye-bye |
Amir may be many things, but eloquent he isn’t. Neither do I think calling someone out for spamming the group to be a vile insult.
I did. The guy's a clown. |
I avoid any threads that directly discuss politics but the ironic thing about this thread is that Erik's infamous Amir/ASR topic was a revelation to me about how politial and tribal identity has taken root in this hobby. Some of the posters in that thread hurled the most vile, unfounded, ridiculous insults at Amir for eloquently putting forward his philosophy regarding how measurements and bias relate to what we hear. Geez, if you don't like what he is saying, just ignore him! The whole thing reminded me of how dysfunctional our political debate has become. Our poliics have become our identity and it's our tribe against the other tribe. We can't seem to have a civil discussion anymore. In our esoteric, nerdy audio hobby we seem to have separated into two tribes as well. It's the subjective tribe vs. the objective tribe and one of those tribes feels threatened to their very core about what the other tribe is saying. Their response is to sling insults and question the motives and character of the the people who view the world differently than they do. To bend a phrase, Audio politics are so viscious because the stakes are so low. |
The thing I've noticed over the years is the increasing need for some to infuse every topic of conversation with their political views, this no matter the venue. Misusing freedom isn't a concept many are acquainted with, we now live in a society where freedom is believed to have no cost/consequence, how misguided. This is a consequential/existential political era for many, emotions high, expect nothing to change post election.
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Not being in the US matters little, it seems the political situation is talked about everywhere. It’s almost comedic, both parties trying to validate the sanity of their El Capitano Lol. Good thing decisions are really controlled by the party chairs around the big one sitting there with the rubber stamp in his hand. It’ll work out it always does, topics get beaten to death people get bored eventually learning to live with the mess that was created. Like music it never dies so let’s find some and enjoy. Every now and then let’s bash the cable industry or the like to get that aggression out. |
I think that I’m going to agree with @carlsbad2 on this particular subject. The elections in November probably won’t change much of anything beyond making some folks realize that after all is said and done, and folks have resumed their quiet little lives, the baby still needs a diaper change and mommy and daddy need to get back to taking care of their themselves and their families. I’ve always looked at Audiogon as an oasis amidst a vast desert of apathy and ignorance. I cherish the time that I can spend reading about how others have put together their systems and the music they enjoy listening to. I feel extremely privileged to have found a hobby that provides me with a small degree of contentment and solace where the rabid political ramblings of some folks cannot divert or stifle my enthusiasm. |
Sad to see you go; I've only been here for a few years, but yours is a name that has positive association when I browse everyday. Totally empathize with your rationale; I'm in the UK, things are on a downward trajectory here as well in the context of how we treat each other. Take care, hope to see you back 👍 |
Finally someone has enough nerve to say something that needs to be said. I agree with the original comment and it not only applies to this particular forum but seems to be part of everything. It is sad and to our detriment that we have evolved to this type of society. I am also old and the world I knew and grew up in no longer exist |
Erik (and, asvjerry), I’m hoping this is a plea for change and you’re not actually hitting the ’eject’ button. Your contribution(s) on this "little" forum have value in ways that you may not have considered. I want to comment on this further, but have some commitments this morning. I hope to get back on ASAP. Hopefully, this topic won’t be closed or taken down by then. John
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……stay well and safe Eric as you and I have exchanged some ideas on audio in the past. I no longer watch TV and over the last two months have grown tired of the snarky comments I see here now in these forums. I have been on this site for almost 24 years and it has really changed . So I too recently have not been as engaged on Audiogon as I have in the past . Unfortunately this is the new norm and some like myself make a conscious decision not to be a part of it. Eric thank you for putting your thoughts and feelings on a thread that needed to be done . I am going to just listen to more music …… |
@erik_squires, I’ve been lurking here for 20+ yrs. I don’t engage much because I don’t feel like I have the street cred to hang with the high end crowd. But I love learning and hearing about the audio adventures of others. There are a few people on here that when they speak about audio I perk up and listen. You are at the top of the list. Regarding the political aspect, the political rabbit hole can lead to social sickness. I’ve seen some of my own family members become infected. It’s sad to see otherwise intelligent, thoughtful, professional people spiral into political madness. Neutrality is the vaccine against blind loyalty.
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erik_squires Couldn't agree more with your sentiments. This is the only forum I peruse on a daily basis and the only social media venue that I have an account with. I have neither the time or the temperament for any of the other ones. I hang on to the slim hope that things will get back to some semblance of normal next year, but know in my heart that it probably won't happen in what's left of my lifetime. Being old enough to know what we as a society have lost makes it that much harder to see how far we have fallen. |
@erik_squires ...arrived at that conclusion myself the other day....different and similar reasons, too much in too little time to attend to... See you and all y'all on the B side, and take care out there... |
@erik_squires Reconsider. It won't be the same without you. |
I hope you will reconsider. Your posts are very educational for people like me who don’t have the technical knowledge that you possess.
I cannot imagine why anyone would think it’s a good idea to post political blather on an audio forum, regardless of the point of view. One would hope that those people would realize that they are neither persuading anyone to their point of view or presenting themselves as “smart“ to the people on this forum. Quite the opposite is true. It’s unlikely, but perhaps there will be a wave of common sense and they will save their political musings for political venues |
The more technical discussions tend to happen in AVS, DIY forums, etc (which you are also on probably)...The handful of dudes who are perhaps more technical around here are also on those other forums (probably), i.e., don’t think you’re gonna miss much. The Gon is primarily for scoping out the used market and buying/selling things...and secondarily, a marketing machine on various threads (i.e., the dealers/pied pipers covert club at work)... the latter can provide some entertainment value though ...
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you have a low tolerance @erik_squires for the noise and I can relate, I do too. I hope you will come back sooner, you are super helpful in all things audio. |
Here's another element of A'gon policy that the disrupters flaunt: Act professionally and use common sense (Of course certain users claim special exemptions.) |
