Does it have to sound good for you to like it?

Yes, and that holds for any genre. I’m a big Steely Dan fan, but I won’t listen to their earlier CDs or stream on my system — too compromised in too many areas (will try the vinyl though whenever I get my TT up n running again). If I wanna listen to that stuff I’ll listen on my earbuds or a Bluetooth speaker where all the warts and limitations are mostly glossed over. Kinda sad, but that’s me.

Yes, The recording needs to sound good for me to like it.   :-)

I can tolerate a few issues, however, my patience is has its limits. Especially with anything that gets in the way of an immersive experience.

I have favorites that are not well recorded. For example, this gem from Chuck Mangione, which also has some flaws in its performance. It was never released on CD or streaming - LP only, as far as I know. But it’s a great piece of music. You either get it, or you don’t.

(Naturally, the LP sounds much better than the YT lossy audio.)

.......yes. I had CD's on Billie Holiday and Sam Cooke as well as older blues and jazz and ended up trading them in as it was too '' hard '' to listen to and enjoy.     

I will listen to great music regardless of the recording quality or the equipment I have at the moment, including iphone.

yes

No. Great recorded sound is the icing on the cake. I still love cake; icing or not.

I find many poorly recorded albums are more enjoyable on secondary systems or in the car...

I'd say, poorly recorded analog recording definitely sounds better on better systems, but with digital...it's inconclusive to me.

I know people are tired of me saying the same thing ad nauseum. There are beautiful "performances" in all of our recordings. I will listen to bootlegs or any quality cd (still my main source), for the musicianship, the composition and the artistic expression. I find it sad that many here will not listen to some great music if they feel the recording is poor. My main rig allows me to hear all of this, more than my car or phone/headphones. As an example, I have many BBC Sessions cds by Hendrix, Zep, Beatles and many more. From the Hendrix release "Blues", "Born Under A Bad Sign", is a perfect example of exactly what I am talking about. This recording (if you are a fan of Hendrix, or maybe not) can teach you to listen to the musicians, first. Lots of fabulous studio sounds as well. I recommend everyone listen to it, even Classical listeners. Maybe this should be posted under "music"? Sorry rv, but it is an example of your thread. Using a recording of a solo violin as an example, if the violin sounds a bit "tinny", stop paying the most attention to the "sound" and "location" of the instrument, and turn your attention to the virtuosity of the violinist. This is my take of course. No matter what I want to listen to, my main rig gets the play. My best, MrD.

I would not listen if the sound is poor.

Classical music for me is predominately piano or piano with orchestra, not much violin with orchestra or piano-violin and lil-to-nothin for opera. 

Solo piano is another level that have to be near-perfectly recorded. That is the case that I would not listen if piano is compromised!

On the other hand, I have bootleg of Pink Floyd "Live In Pompeii" that I would listen a lot more often than perfectly recorded and mastered DSOM or The Wall.

OP,

I know what you mean. I was just comparing several different recordings of Shostakovich’s 5th symphony. Poor quality recording gets dismissed immediately, there are quite a few of those. But I was in a real quandary between two, one more recent (Boston Symphony 2023 I believe) very well recorded one where i felt the conductor sped things up in places and lost the impact of the piece. So, I went back to my “go to”… 1980 Cleveland orchestra version… while clearly less resolution, the performance was worth it for me.

But in general, I’m not interested in poor recordings 

Bob Dylan at Royal Albert Hall. Probably considered a poor recording. I love that album so count me in on a person that will listen to poor recordings!

Classical is unique in that it's the same music played over and over by different ensembles.  You should not have to put up with bad recordings because there is always a better one available.  Fortunately, the recording technology seems to have peaked at the same time as the great conductors and orchestras.

On the other hand:

Jazz: well, Charlie Parker is exhibit A.

Pop: Motown is exhibit B.

Both examples border on the criminal.  Sometimes it seems as if the less the talent,  the more resources are committed to the recordings process.

Cheers

There are two quite clearly divided camps here.

Besides, that's when true audiophile rig shows real class - when it achieves an impossible task of making poor recordings sound tolerable.

Does it have to taste good for you to eat it?

Not a fair analogy because you have to eat.

But sometimes I really need to listen to music.

So sound doesn't always matter.

Myself interpret a very good performance is not only the composition but 

for sure the sound quality. If it is lifeless and or bright ,I consider this a failure 

and avoid , Thst being said if you stream and are willing to spend sa6 $5 k 

You can  make even less then average recordings sound very respectable with the correct Ethernet cables ,highquality hub ,for sure a decent LPS at the router 

and at least a $4-6k dac to truly make a significant difference ,

if not then you can buy decent digital filters that plug into the streamer from the hub 

to improve the sound  ,since digital is not grounded and Carrie’s noise house to house you absolutely have to start at square one of the weak links in the chain 

for sure Never have a old separate router modem for starters .

I had and call your cable company a all in one ,I bought a Motorola 2802 I think the # is around #$230 it has a docsis 3.1 , much faster processor and buffer ,even your tv picture will improve . It’s use a decent after market  Ethernet cable , at least $400

and your best at your end point Sablon from the U.K excellent for the $$.then go to Linesr tube audio great LPS power supply to your router , and comes with a great Dc cable , buy a low cost $200 Pangea sig mk2  awg14 power cord for the router.

LHY SW-8 Ethernet hub excellent value for $600 buy the same Pangea power cord ,then there are several Ethernet filters , this is a economical setup ,a major upgrade at least a $3500 Ethernet hub to complement everything else mentioned 

only then wil you hear a much more musical analog streaming playback .and your dac needs to be respectable as well as streamer . Just like a good turntable 

your talking at least $12-$15 k to get a nice setup .it takes time but essential to remove every weak link in the audio chain.

Here is a good low cost example one of the guys put on the forum last night that works . See link way below.

Charlie Parker can be rough to listen to on many poorly recorded outings. But he is so phenomenal you can't avoid appreciating and enjoying his playing even on the worst recorded records. 

My latest favorite rockers, Band-Maid (from Japan) have several mediocre recordings on CD of otherwise great material. Their excellent youtube videos make up for this however, so it's not a total loss. If you haven't listened to them already  pull up their songs "Hate?" and  "Play"  on youtube. You won't be disappointed. After a month of stumbling across Band-Maid, I'm starting to think they're the best rock band to come around since the Stones. High praise indeed. Don't miss out.

Mike

Yes and no. For example, the recordings of Robert Johnson or Feruccio Busoni are not easy to listen to.  But for seminal recordings like those, or bootlegs of of extraordinary performances (e.g., Hendrix, SRV, Parker) or rare, or even unique recordings, sometimes there’s no other choice.  

then there’s the problem of live performances vs studio.    

Like almost everything, it depends. If it's background or on the go music, then I'm not so critical. If it's a set down and listen, then yes it has to sound very good, or I feel I'm basically wasting my time. 

With literally millions of songs to access, I would find it mind boggling why I would listen to poorly recorded music. If your tastes are limited, I could see it. Not an issue for me.

For 6 years, I tape traded with a couple guys in the UK. 

Mostly demo tapes, NWOBHM stuff, and port radio garage recordings

napalm death

tank

samson

venom

mercyful fate

Spartan warrior

crossfire

satan jokers

lots stuff still boxed in basement, 

sound wuality is important,  sometimes it’s overlooked for the vocal and musical energy of live and garage recordings. 

I crossed that divide a long time ago. It's the music, not the static.

Yup has to sound good or it will grate on me enough to the point where I will get rid of it. 

I have plenty of Classical recordings that I listen to that sound less than immaculate.  I subscribe to Pristine Audio streaming service and most of their catalog is the pre stereo era

A good composition well performed is far more important than the recording quality, IMO. 

This thread gives me some insight as to why some people are always "upgrading" and why they have such strong sonic preferences.  I wish them luck.

Being music driven, could listen to my favorite tunes on a transitor radio (almost). 

This post provokes answers to one of the perennial questions on this forum, implied by a snide remark attributed to Alan Parsons: "Audiophiles don't use their equipment to listen to your music. Audiophiles use your music to listen to their equipment."

Sometimes, I listen to the equipment. Then the recording quality takes precedence, since it is the most important determinant of the listening pleasure.

Other times, I listen to the music. I still love the Furtwängler performance of Brahms's first symphony best, for instance (monaural and not much above AM radio sound quality). 

But then, there's this (from rok2kid above): "Classical is unique in that it's the same music played over and over by different ensembles.  You should not have to put up with bad recordings because there is always a better one available.  Fortunately, the recording technology seems to have peaked at the same time as the great conductors and orchestras." This is just ignorant. All three of those sentences show a failure to understand anything about so-called "classical" music.

For me recorded quality is paramount. I can't listen to poor recordings regardless of the performance especially now that I have a very resolving system. And yes Classical recordings are extremely variable in quality. Even with current methods and HIGH RESOLUTION  recordings. There are some HiRes recordings that can't compete with older CD quality issues. I've even heard Hires issues that were inferior to their standard CD quality issues. Recording large orchestral works is dependent on the miking arrangement and the location. I really don't like close miked Classical. I need to hear the ambience of the hall. Recording Classical is both a science and and art. If you are interested in Opera listen to some of the Decca early Stereo recordings. They surpass most modern Opera recordings. Perfectly miked in a wonderful acoustic.

No. It's about the music, not the recording. If it wasn't about the music most people would never go to a concert unless they were able to find the best seat for sound quality and were able to get it each time. 

No. It's about the music, not the recording. 

For you. Not for everyone. 

Post results, much like a cable post. Will you or won’t you listen, can you or can’t you hear…lol

Cheers 

It’s interesting to note that some value the music and some value their system more.

It’s interesting to note who values the music and who values their system more.

Agreed! What’s more interesting to me is that the ones who value music more tend to make generalizing statements such as, "It’s all about the music" as if this was one of the 10 Commandments rather than personal preference. So many people call this hobby "subjective" and then make universal, objective claims about its overall purpose. Kinda wild.

It is the rhetorical force of those objective claims that makes people feel guilty or shy to admit that the sound quality matters to them, and maybe more than the music. There's a worry that someone will come back with a playground taunt in the form of, "Oh, so you don't even care about the music? That's sad."

I’m a big fan of historical recordings, both jazz and classical, so sound quality has always been a secondary consideration for me. That said, even I have my limits, which stop somewhere well short of Edison cylinders. ;-) But my musical life would be considerably poorer if I’d never heard Furtwangler’s 1949 Brahms 4th from Wiesbaden, or Walter Gieseking and Guido Cantelli in one of the greatest Mozart concerto performances I’ve ever heard. Ditto with some marvelous Charlie Parker broadcasts, Lester Young, Artie Shaw, etc. I’d certainly rather listen to a tinny Stan Hasselgard aircheck than the clumsy playing on "Jazz at the Pawnshop". I suppose a lot depends on your musical tastes, and I don’t necessarily blame people who have a low tolerance for poor recordings. And I suppose that, in some respects, my system choices are somewhat geared toward making historical recordings sound tolerable. For me the performance comes first. Good sound is a bonus, and can be enjoyable in its own right.

@snilf 

Please take the statements I made one by one and point out the ignorance of each.

"But then, there's this (from rok2kid above): "Classical is unique in that it's the same music played over and over by different ensembles.  You should not have to put up with bad recordings because there is always a better one available.  Fortunately, the recording technology seems to have peaked at the same time as the great conductors and orchestras." This is just ignorant. All three of those sentences show a failure to understand anything about so-called "classical" music."

Thanks

As has been pointed out, this topic has been beaten to death many times and not just on this forum. On this forum, the OP has asked what is essentially the same question many times over the years; in a variety of different ways and approached from different angles. Not to personalize things, but he seems conflicted in the matter and I hope he finds resolution at some point as this seems to get in the way of his enjoyment.

Personally, I make absolutely zero judgement of hobbyists who value sound quality more than the music, or that are kept from enjoyment of a great performance because the recorded sound is not up to (their) par. To each their own! Doesn’t bother me one wit and God knows, I Iike my ear candy as much as anyone. However, FOR ME, the idea that the pursuit of great (subjective) sound quality as the end-all is worthy of anywhere near the level of concern or attention as does the appreciation of the vast artistic riches found in a great performance of great music strikes me as odd. FOR ME and others audio is a hobby while music is much more than that.

So, those who don’t share this view should simply be confident in their approach to this hobby and instead of feeling defensive allow others their point of view and passion for the music as the end-all.  I would suggest that the two approaches can live side by side and that the key is to find the right balance of the two.

rok2id: "Please take the statements I made one by one and point out the ignorance of each." Funny; I was originally going to do just that.

1. "Classical is unique in that it’s the same music played over and over by different ensembles." The same score (usually), but not the same music. If this were true, there would surely be no point in listening to more than one performance of a given piece, nor would it make sense to have preferences for certain performances, nor to have preferences for certain performers. To suppose what you wrote is like saying that all beers are just the same beer over and over again, or that there can only be one interpretation of "Hamlet," or... etc.

2. "You should not have to put up with bad recordings because there is always a better one available." Again, begs the same question by presuming that all performances are just "the same music being played over and over by different ensembles," and that therefore only the sound quality distinguishes one recording from another. The interpretive differences between different pianists, or cellists, or conductors is, musically speaking, far more significant than the differences in sound quality between primitive and SOTA recordings.

3. "Fortunately, the recording technology seems to have peaked at the same time as the great conductors and orchestras." jfrmusic addresses this above with his remark about early Decca stereo recordings. There are SACD re-issues of orchestral recordings from the early 1950s that sound as good as well-made recordings from last year. And when, please, did "the great conductors and orchestras" "peak"? Read Harold Schoenberg’s book "The Great Conductors." I wish we had good recordings of Mahler conducting premieres of his own symphonies—or of Beethoven conducting his!

@rok2id 

As a classical music lover, I too would take issue with the notion that it's "just the same music played over and over by different ensembles."  This is no more true of classical music than it is of any other genre.  It's rather like saying, "I've heard Jazz at the Pawnshop so who needs Louis Armstrong or Johnny Hodges?"  While it's certainly true that there are many fine classical performances available in excellent sound, as you point out, it's also true that some soloists, conductors and orchestras bring qualities to the music that others don't.  Zoltan Kocsis' Rachmaninov 3rd is very nice.  Horowitz and Ormandy playing the same music are positively electric and unforgettable.  Both are in nice sound, but it would be a grave mistake to put both performances in the same category on that basis alone.

@frogman

You got me! How could you not?
I’ve been conflicted for years on the subject.
What I’ve found is that listening for sound only (as I’ve often done) is a dead end. It can go just so far in fulfillment.
I continue to write these observations for my own edification, but also to provoke thought, so that others who are also conflicted may question their actual beliefs and come to some helpful conclusions to enhance their listening habits.

Well, I guess it was good to get all those opinions off your chest.  If only they had the least bit connection to what I actually said.

1. It's the same music.  All written down on paper.   Everyone plays the repertoire.

2. Don't presume what I meant.  I said what I meant.  A better 'recording' is always avaiulable.  Did not mention performance.

3. Beethoven would have made  a poor conductor.  The man was deaf.  With due respect to Mr. Schoenberg.  But all of the major ones made it to the modern age of recording tech.

One man's opinion:  This 'performance' thing in classical music has become a sort of snob thing.  Good and bad performances are like night and day.  Obvious to everyone.

Just to get on the same ground.  EVERYONE owns Beethoven's 9th.  Which is your favorite.  Mine are,  / Böhm Vienna(the slow one), Karajan-77, Gardiner(the fast one).  Yours?

Thanks for the response.

Cheers

@dogearedaudio:

As a classical music lover, I too would take issue with the notion that it's "just the same music played over and over by different ensembles." 

I meant they all play the Classical repertoire.  I did not mean to imply all performances were equal.

Cheers

As an old rock and roll boomer I mostly enjoy the music even though there are some so so recordings. There are some exceptions of CD's recorded so badly that they are unlistenable. I have a CD of the Who's Who's Next which I love the songs on that is so poor that I cringe if I try to listen to it. I have no idea how they screwed it up so badly. Some of the Dead's soundboard releases also grate on me even though I love the Dead's music because I have better recordings of the same tunes.

Of course what is best is well recorded and well played music. 

Jim S.

There are good to bad recordings, nothing we can do.

Therefore, I choose to avoid the half glass empty- expecting/hoping for high sonics and when unsatisfactory leads to disappointment. Instead, I strive to appreciate when I find great recorded music, grateful when I find it like a successful treasure hunt. Also, there seems to be a lot of current classical recordings being released in high quality sonics- another point for being gratified.

I share frogman's POV, especially as set forth in his 2d paragraph.

FWIW I've found good recordings are nothing much more than validation of the effectiveness of the audio set up I have worked on for many years, i.e. that it fairly represents the contents of my recordings. I find that it does. Could be better or worse, who knows, but it meets my needs. Done! Onto the music. :-)