Soundsmith Optimized Contour Contact Line Stylus for Rebuild

Peter did a nice job with an OCL stylus on my Helikon.  On his recommendation, the diamond was mounted to the stock Lyra boron cantilever instead of his ruby cantilever.  It costs a bit more, but he believes that is best.  BTW, from what I have gathered, his modern OCL stylus profile is more advanced than what was available to Lyra during the production period for the Clavis/Helikon. 

Dear @bpoletti: I made the retip of my DC using boron cantilever and as @dgarretson pointed out is the best way to go with that specific Lyra model. I did it with other re-tipper but at the end the issue is that the cantilever must be boron.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.

@bpoletti - i have this stylus on my SS modified Denon DL103 with a ruby cantilever.

It is a superb stylus/cantilever pairing for this cartridge. The onyl caveat is that setup requires extreme accuracy and as such requires a mirror’d protractor like the Mint best protractor.

Other than that the stylus is very detailed and articulate with little trace of sibilance. It tracks well and produces extremely fine details and controls the reproduction of the most demanding bass lines as well as exquisite high end performance.

I’m completely satisfied with my SS modified cardridge

Hope that helps

To add to the positive sentiment, I had the OCL stylus with Ruby cantilever installed on my Grace Ruby, so the only thing different from original is the shape of the stylus tip (elliptical vs OCL).  I also own a second Grace Ruby still with its OEM elliptical stylus.  Once broken in, the OCL beats the elliptical, in my opinion, in my system.

Dave, Can SS optionally install a boron cantilever with the OCL stylus?  Or was that possible only because your Lyra already had a boron cantilever?

Dear @williewonka : Have you idea of the quality level performance or owned the Lyra Clavis DC?

You are speaking of the 103 that no matter what is a cartridge that belongs to the mediocrity area against the Lyra the OP is mentioned.

Same for you lewm. Grace is no challenge against that Lyra one.

R.

Raul - I was not comparing the cartridges - simply commenting on the stylus type and cantilever.

The style type in the original post is the same as the one I have on my 103.

I found it to be an excellent upgrade - it should sound amazing on the Lyros

But it MUST be setup correctly

Apologies for any misunderstanding.

I was able to read the substance and context of the comments, raul.  No misunderstanding from my perspective.  I was not necessarily asking about the Lyra cart, but the question was of a more general nature.  It's one thing to read marketing info, it's another to hear directly from those with first hand experience.

I understand the critical need for a precise setup particularly with a fine line stylus.  I have been living with that for a long time, not necessarily with the Clavis DC.  I have the protractors and VTA-on-the-fly.  

If the boron cantilever would have been offered with an OCL by Soundsmith, I would have gone that route.

Disclosure:

I have no experience with any Lyra cartridges.

However, from what I can see, the Lyra Clavis DC came with a "ceralloy cantilever" and I have no clue as to what that is but chances are it is not boron, sapphire or ruby.

I do, however, have considerable experience with the Soundsmith OCL on ruby cantilever, as well as the Soundsmith regular line contact on ruby cantilever, both on heavily modified Denon 103R’s (potted and in ebony and aluminum bodies). I’ve also had retips done by Andy at phonocartridgeretipping.com on Ortofon MC 20 Supers using microridge styli on both boron and sapphire cantilevers. No, they’re not Lyras, but both are pretty capable cartridges-the rebodied/retipped Denons were IMO easily competitive with many cartridges up into the $1000 range and a bit beyond and my retipped MC 20 Supers I would say would go head to head with anything in the $1500 or slightly more price range these days.

As has been stated, the OCL is extremely demanding in terms of setup. When setup precisely (I have Mint protractors for a couple of arms in use here), the stylus is very capable. But it requires really, really precise setup, not just in terms of alignment but also in terms of SRA/VTA and VTF. It is more demanding and less forgiving than any other stylus I have personally setup, including Fritz Geiger and the Microridge options available from Andy.

After having had a couple of them, I have moved in a different direction (with more standard microridge styli, which I prefer and find to be almost-if not really close to equally as detailed, and much less finicky in terms of overall setup) and would not go back to that stylus.

Cantilever material is also important. Generally speaking I would say that boron is a better choice for those that prefer more of a mid hall to back of the ball presentation; ruby is more a choice for guys who want to sit in the front row and be dazzled a bit more. A generalization, but a valid one in my experience over the years. Sapphire, which is supposed to be similar (or the same as) to ruby, I find to be a bit of a compromise between ruby and boron, possibly just a bit more toward the boron presentation than the ruby.

Peter was advertising a boron line contact combo if you opt for the less expensive option of cantilever and stylus vs. placing a new stylus on original cantilever, so that might be an option as well. And he has a Sapphire/laser mounted line contact as well that looks very appealing based on price the last time I looked at his website. I would choose either of those options over the OCL ruby because of my subjective listening preferences and ease of setup.

All IMO. YMMV.

I appreciate all the comments.  I received the information I was hoping for.  Thank you. 

I have heard from Soundsmith.  The stylus is worn, but the suspension is OK.  The stylus is OK.  Not the "low rider" as I feared.  So I had some choices

I have decided to go forward with the OCL stylus on the ruby cantilever.  It may require a tight set-up, but that is the case for pretty much any high quality cartridge.  I'm trying to extract as much detail as possible.  Soundstage and image rank very high in my listening preferences along with a good tonal balance.  Let's see how this combo works.  (Apologies, Jon and Alan.  I had to try.)

here is a nice video from Stereophile Mag published 5 days ago, Art Dudles visits Peter Lederman (SoundSmith) in Peekskill, NY.

I was surpriced that Peter even operates cutting lathe. Also i’ve never heard before that SoundSmith also repair vintage audio equipment, not only cartridges. Not surpriced that some nice girls doing work under microscopes with his cartridges. Nice factory tour. Must see.

chakster

Also i’ve never heard before that SoundSmith also repair vintage audio equipment, not only cartridges ...

Soundsmith offers first-class equipment repair. They did an expert job on my Tandberg TD-20a after other techs looked at it but threw up their arms in despair. Soundsmith also offers excellent service on vintage Nakamichi decks.

@cleeds Nice, maybe he could repair Victor TT-101 ? Who knows. 

In the video he said they can repair vintage electronics if nobody serviced them before, must be in original condition. 

chakster

Nice, maybe he could repair Victor TT-101 ? Who knows.

In the video he said they can repair vintage electronics if nobody serviced them before, must be in original condition

That is correct - he won't accept for repair anything not in original condition, or that has been mangled by improper service in the past. However, if the equipment has been properly serviced previously, he'll accept that. In the case of my Tandberg - which I've had since I bought it new back around 1980 - it had actually been serviced several times over the years. But it's more difficult than ever to find competent tape deck techs today, and that's how I ended up at Soundsmith. They've done outstanding work for me.

Raul
The OP asked about the SS ruby cantilever with OCL stylus, and I've had a relevant experience with it. He didn't ask whether his Lyra is better than a Grace Ruby, and I didn't make that comparison. What is your problem?

Dear @lewm : I always try to really help to any OP like in this ocassion.

First than all you have to have the first hand experience with the Clavis DC to understand my meaning.

Even that the OP will be satisfied with that ruby cantilever he took the wrong road for that specific Lyra model.

This is not rocket science but common sense: do you think that if ruby cantilever was or is better than boron JC was wrong because he choosed as almost all top cartridge designers boron?, cantilever build material is way more important than stylus tip shape but this is for other ocassion discusion.

I owned the Clavis DC with boron and even today is a superlative performer that with ruby can't even it.

That's the problem from my experiences and point of view. Did you heard your Grace with boron cantilever? no? why don't make a test about and you will learn in this regards.

R.

@rauliruegas Did you compare the Clavis DC with a boron cantilever to one with an OCL stylus on a ruby cantilever?  

@rauliruegas Something has been bothering me since your first post in this thread. You claim that your Clavis DC has a boron cantilever. It might, but it wouldn’t be a stock Clavis DC. A stock Clavis DC cantilever is fabricated from a ceramic-reinforced metal composite material, cerralloy. 

Again, Raul, the OP did not ask for a comparison between boron and ruby cantilevers.  He did ask for “opinions of those who used this stylus (referring to the SS Ruby cantilever/OCL stylus)”.  That’s what I wrote about, and only that.  I have never owned a Lyra cartridge because long ago I had the impression that Lyra cartridges were a little too “clinical” sounding for my taste.  That was based on one listening experience with one model.  I am willing to revisit Lyra cartridges, and for all I know, boron would sound better on a Lyra than would ruby.  But none of this issue was addressed in the OP’s original post. And now it seems that the Clavis DC may not in fact come with a boron cantilever.  I am eager to see how that plays out.

Dear @bpoletti :  That cerralloy made it more harm to the quality cartridge performance than anything for the better.

That's why, even that I like Lyra designs, never bougth it and only after I found out one with out stylus tip I pull the triger and imediatly send it to retipp asking in specific for boron.

Why boron and not sapphire/ruby?, well I owned in that time too the Audioquest Fe5 that's a truly great performer and both cartridges were made more or less in the same time by ScanTech and the main difference in between was the cantilever build material that in the Audioquest is boron.

When I received rettiped with boron/Gyger that Clavis DC was really in a way different league.

In cartridges cantilever makes a more critical differences than stylus tip because it's the cantilever whom transmit the stylus tip grooves modulations for those movements be converted in electrical signal but the cantilever tends to resonates by it self adding its own developed " vibrations " that puts several colorations/distortions/deviations in the final cartridge signal.

As I said before almost all top cartridge manufacturer models use boron not ruby and Lyra is one of them whom in the Atlas or Etna you can see that boron. Even there is not enough boron material for the manufacturers and in other thread J.Carr comments that he bougth enough material for his cartridges and future cartridge developments.

Now, I'm not saying that a retip Lyra with ruby will sounds bad what I'm saying is that boron is way better and its self material resonances makes less harm to the cartridge signal and that's why I  posted here in agreegment with dgarretson but not with lewm because you was looking for advise.

R.

@rauliruegas Interesting to read your favorable opinion of the AQ 7000 Fe5. I have one of those in storage that I ran for 1500-2000 hrs before mounting a Helikon. Perhaps the Fe5 is worth revisiting with a Soundsmith OCL stylus retip on the Lyra boron cantilever. Any thoughts on whether the Helikon was actually an improvement over the Fe5, or not?

Dear @dgarretson : Yes, the Fe5 is very good performer better than the Clavis DC but different than the Helikon that's too a good cartridge.

I think that you have to mount in your system cleaning perfectly the stylus tip and give at least 4-5 hour of playing before serious listening tests. If what you experienced with and even that has 2K hours then you will know if still is worth to be retipped or not. Btw, I remember the original stylus shape is Ogura LC in boron canrilever.

R.

After serious consideration and consultation with those who actually work on cartridges, I have settled on having Soundsmith install a boron cantilever with a line contact stylus on the Clavis DC I sent there a few weeks ago.

The rebuilt Lyra DC came in on Friday.  New Boron cantilever and line contact stylus.  From a purist perspective, it's no longer a Clavis DC.  It's something else.  Time will tell whether it's an improvement, has no change in sound or negative results.

Time for installation, set-up and breakin.  Much easier said than done since my eyesight has deteriorated greatly since my last phono cart change.   Soundsmith recommends 50 hours breakin time.

As long as the table is down for a bit, it will get some maintenance.  Belt refurb, oil change, tire rotation and radiator flush.  

Should have the system up and running again Monday or Tuesday.  Will be interesting to hear the rebuilt cart before breakin and as it progresses.  

As a side note, Soundsmith recommends Blue Tack to clean the stylus and cantilever.  If fluids are involved, they should be used sparingly and infrequently as they may soften the cantilever or stylus adhesive.

Peter has done two for me Line contact ruby on a Alpha Genisis 1000
years ago and recently a self modded Denon 103R.  The improvement on the Denon was incredible.  I have been looking to find a replacement for the Alpha since the suspension finally let go. I miss this cartridge.

@rauliruegas There are some hours on the cart and it seems to have pretty much settled.  I agree with you that the Clavis DC with a Boron cantilever and Soundsmith line contact stylus seems the way to go.  It's quite good and a significant improvement over the stock Clavis DC.  Very much a step up into a "different league."  Overcomes my criticisms of the stock cart   

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