Talk me out of buying Monoblocks and into a stereo amp instead

I have owned both. And I cannot rationalize the M462 over 611s if the cost is irrelevant based on performance alone. 

There are other implications including space, logistics of set-up and connectivity that could favor a stereo versus monoblocks. 
 

There are outstanding stereo amplifiers and McIntosh’s product line has many more monoblocks designs at its higher end lines. 

@mike4597 

Loves me some Odyssey!!

@dman777 'Warmth' and detail do not have to be a tradeoff. 

+1 for all of the above who voted for monoblocks. I love mine.

@dman777 

I believe my tastes have changed in regard to how music is presented. In my audiophile journey, I always preferred warmth. I loved tubes, but they have limitations. McIntosh was the closest solid state, sounding like tubes but with tremendous balls. The only other amp I have heard to provide bass similar to the MC 611s was a Gryphon Diablo 300. 

I did have a Luxman 590 AXII, which was a disaster in my system. My current McIntosh system is far superior. 

I believe the C12000 is a great preamp, and my recent audition presented as 'cleaner and more detailed than my C2700' albeit at a $16K cost. However, I did audition the Luxman M10X which sounded glorious. I believe the Luxman presents as the middle-ground between a McIntosh system and Soulution. Still, from what I recall, the Luxman did not provide the magic that the Solution did.

I would spend a lot of time auditioning different components to do it right the first time!

@jeffreyw I was going to ask in a private message but I don’t see a way to send a private message on this site.

Doing research on McIntosh, I came across this post by you

https://forum.audiogon.com/posts/2558077

I was going to ask... it was only about 2 years ago. You mentioned that you prefer a warm sound at the cost of some detail.
1) Do you feel that your tastes have changed that much since then where now you would take the more detailed at the cost of warmth?
2) How do I know if my tastes won’t change like that later? I ask because it looks like we are on similar paths. I was trying figure out ahead of time to try and save money. But to be honest, I need to listen to a system for a few months to really get to know if I like it at my house which is not feasible in real life.
3) Do you think with the C 12000 preamp there would be enough detail where I would not wish I had a system with more detail? For instance, my current system is Yamaha AS-3200 and Luxman 595 class A that I switch between with when I get tired of the same sound. Both are used on Focal Sopra N1s.

Whether stereo or monoblock, it’s the best amp I could afford first, then monoblocks second.  

I vote for monoblocks. I run a 'vintage' system and I run (2) MC2100s as monoblocks, fed from a Dynaco tube preamp. Very nice sound (at least to my ears) that combines a bit of tube 'color' along with 210 wpc of clean Macintosh SS power.

Plus, as a few others have said - if you go with a stereo amplifier (again), you will always be wondering what the monoblocks would have brought to the table.

Don't wonder - find out!

@dman777 

You have some valid points. Being an audiophile is a disease, and we are never satisfied. I love the McIntosh products; they are probably the best value/performance in the industry. Yes, there will always be better. I have been in this game for over 30 years and have not heard a component make such an impression. The sounds I heard coming out of the Soulution was a WTF moment. I do believe because of the Soulution's accuracy, bad recordings will sound really bad! I was always one who enjoyed a warm presentation, but maybe my sound preferences are changing. I hope to do more auditioning of that integrated since it was not fully broken in yet. 

One last thought. The weak point of my system is the C2700; some have characterized it as sounding muddy. I would love to hear what the MC611s would sound like being driven by an EMM Labs DV2i!

@jeffreyw I was going to ask, please....

1) For the system you are upgrading to that will have more fine detail. Doesn’t that mean bad recordings will sound worse on your new system versus the McIntosh (w c-12000) which helps with bad recordings since it is softer with less detail?

2) Won’t it always be the case that there will be something you will eventually like better and someday you may sell the Solution system for something else?

3) Could it be that McIntosh would be the compromise between fine detail but not to harsh on music with bad recordings? For instance, I like Dinosaur Jr.... it sounds awful on my Luxman because it sounds so harsh. But on McIntosh at the store it sounds less harsh.

Comparison is only valid in cases when the same amplifier is offered in monoblock and stereo versions by the manufacturer.

Of those, I can't recall a single instance of a stereo version's sound quality being preferred over the monoblocks'.

@immatthewj

of course there are exceptions. in general a parasound JC1 monoblock (for example)  offers 850 watts at 4-ohms in a 107 lb chassis while the same power in a two channel amp would have prohibitive weight and size. It is a way to support the needs of more demanding power requirements while not requiring a hoist to get it into your room.

I tried dual mono block amps and while a high quality design the overall tone and transparency was not what I was after.

As long as the amp has adequate power and capabilities at lower impedances depending on speakers I prefer the sound based on how they sound and not whether they offer an advantage on paper because they have an extra power supply and power cord.

All things being equal, mono blocks should have an advantage. But it’s more about the quality of the amp(s). A better designed and built stereo amp will outperform mono amps of the same output. And it’s rare that you could compare mono and stereo amps of the same power rating from the same manufacturer.

@dman777 

Have not tried to sell yet. Still working things out. 

Again, some context here.  

If you have 90db sensitivity speakers in a medium sized room, a robust 200 WPC stereo amp is more than enough.  

If you have 84db 2 ohm min load large tower speakers in an extra large room, mono blocks are a practical way to get more power.  

I am pretty sure that there are high powered stereo amps out there, as well as low powered monoblocks.  

@jeffreyw In your transition to the new Solution system, have you sold your monoblocks yet? I was curious how difficult or easy it is for you to sell them?

Again, some context here.  

If you have 90db sensitivity speakers in a medium sized room, a robust 200 WPC stereo amp is more than enough.  

If you have 84db 2 ohm min load large tower speakers in an extra large room, mono blocks are a practical way to get more power.  

@dman777 

The C12000 sounded beautiful in the system I listened to. However, my MAC system cannot compete with the Solution 331. It is not even close. The Soulution was paired with Magico A5s. I love McIntosh, but they are not in the same league. What came out of the Magicos was an eerily present performance. I read one review where the reviewer stated that the "331 produced sounds that made him turn his head and thought it was an artifact in the room." He eloquently stated what I heard, but I could not put this into my own words. 

Solution is more analytical and less warm than MacIntosh. This sound may not be to your liking, but it has made me rethink what I find important in musical presentation. 

@jsalerno277 

started with McIntosh 1.25’s

went to ARC 160S

ended at Burmester 218

Good Luck @dman777 

@jeffreyw how do you feel about a c 12000 preamp sound compared to the system you are switching to? 

I'll likely never go back to stereo amp, I'll take individual power supplies, transformers over shared all day.

Can’t do, for I switched from a well-respected tube amplifier (Rogue Stereo 100 “Dark”) to two Odyssey Kismet mono locks and it vastly improved the sound, although I suspect part of it was increasing power by a factor of two and switching to solid state power amplification.  It really “opened up” the sound, improved the tonal qualities, enhanced definition, and expanded the sound stage. One feature is having the power amps near the individual speakers and using shorter speaker cables.  I am quite pleased.

Monoblocks all the way.

@dman777 

I think the MC 462 punches way above its weight. I was not able to demo the C12000 when I was purchasing, but I believe that combo would outperform the C2700/MC611s. The performance of the C12000 is substantially better than the C2700. I heard the C12000 on another system and found it to be more accurate than the C2700. 

@jeffreyw I had a similar experience, different equipment.  I was  in love with the look and sound of high power Krell separates until a Burmester 105 watt, model 032 integrated amp seduced me, causing me to divorce my Krells for a younger, clearer, faster but just as athletically powerful sound that was more truthful to the music.  I thought dropping 200 watts would disappoint.  It did not.  Dynamics, bass and image density were all better the Burmester.  To be fair, I have not heard current Krell models.  Your Solution is also a phenomenal sounding integrated.  The only better integrated I have auditioned cost the price of your Solution and my Burmester together - the Audionet Humboldt.  

@jeffreyw Interesting story, thank you. If I may ask, please, why do you wish you purchased the MC 462 over the 611s in hindsight?

@dman777 

I was in the exact same position you were two years ago. I ended up purchasing a pair of MC 611s and C2700. I auditioned the MC 462 with the C2700, but the 611s were slightly better. In hindsight, I wish I had purchased the MC 462 and C12000. I love the McIntosh sound, looks, performance, and brand, and I thought this would be my endgame system.

A big, however, and I know you don't want to hear this, but I just auditioned the new Soulution 331 integrated. Its retail price is equal to the total of the MC 611 and C12000. I will soon be moving away from my beloved MAC system. To put this into perspective, I have roughly $30K retail of cabling/conditioning feeding my MACs. My current system was shamed by how the Soulution 331 performed. I still can't unhear what that integrated did with a measly just over 100-watt specification. 

I wish someone had given me this advice before purchasing my system. It would have saved me a bunch of $$ in the long run.

Best of luck on your journey!

Others in this thread have adequately described the benefits and risks of monos vs stereos, so I will not be somniferously redundant.  Rather, I will ask you to open your mind and ears to some points to consider.   The 462 has independent power supplies but in one chassis.  The 611s will give independent chassis and more power.  The only way to determine if the theoretical benefits of monoblocks, which is in part reduced by the 462 power supply design, is to audition.  If you are a fan of the Mac sound, that’s great.  I am not.  But if you have the wherewithal for the additional spend on the monos plus additional cable, there is a high probability you will get better performance from a stereo amp at the 16k - 20k range.  Did you consider this and audition other stereo amps at that price point.  If you consider a preowned stereo amp at that price point you will possibly elevate SQ even further.  The only way to determine what is better is to investigate alternatives and audition.  

I always say if you have room and money go the best sounding period..But until in your room how much more will you hear and guess how good of hearing do you have to really hear the difference... Bring them both home and tell us what you think of stereo amp vs Mono ??? Good Luck and please let us know..

If you get the stereo amp now, you will always wonder how much better the mono's are....  

Mono blocks are for very demanding speakers in very large rooms.  You are talking about a practical way to deliver massive quantity, not necessarily quality.  

Not necessarily.  I know that there are, and have been, some way low powered SET monoblocks designed to drive extremely efficient speakers.  As for myself, the monoblocks that I owned were ARC VTM 120s that were only rated at 100 wpc but they sounded great, and I sometimes think that they sounded better than the comparably powered stereo amp I replaced them with.  As a matter of fact, I'd still own those ARCs if they were not so unreliable and when I flipped the switches I never knew whether I would be listening to music or soldering in new grid resistors.  

@dman777 

The benefits of a mono block amplifier system are essentially more power and current for your speakers per pound of amplifier.  

A 2000 watt stereo amplifier would be physically much larger and heavier than a single 1000 watt mono amplifier.  It would be most impractical to ship, install, move and maintain.  Much easier to deal with two boxes at a percentage of the weight of the single 2000 watt amp.  

Mono blocks are for very demanding speakers in very large rooms.  You are talking about a practical way to deliver massive quantity, not necessarily quality.  

No!

Do it!!  There’s nothing more badass than big monos. 👍👍

Monoblocs all the way baby.

@tomic601 You are right about the vette/porsche analogy. 

Go with the 1.25s, those are a night and day difference. I have both the MC462 and the 1.25kw you can’t compare them different levels and different leagues.

I have an mha12000 supplying easily driven speakers and it is an impressive monster.  It comes in an even more impressive package with a wood base.  It takes up most of the space in a pickup bed, and is both heavy and bulky.  Not impossible to handle by myself at 71, but does require you to be strong and clever.  Being what they are, most Macs are packaged to a high level, so you’ll need storage space.  It runs surprisingly cool; almost no heat produced.  I have another system using class D mono blocks to drive difficult speakers, and they do an incredible job.  If the demand is low, go stereo; if high, go mono.  A side benefit is the jewelry aspect…if you like the aesthetic, two are twice as nice.  I’m not ashamed to admit I love looking at the mha12000 from across the room.  Makes me smile every.  Single.  Time.

Monoblocks have more advantages - especially short speaker cables. The other option is 2 stereo amps placed next to your speakers and vertically bi-amped.

How old are you? 

I have that combination of mcintosh the 12000 and 611.it is great and has good transients to reach base ect.go with the monoblocks for short speaker cable and long xlr.the resale on macintosh is still great.enjoy the music.

This is the most "I'm convinced I'm getting the monoblocks" that I've seen.

2 MC611s or 1 MC462 and a week in Paris or Hawaii. 

Ask your spousal unit for their input and you'll have the answer.

long speaker wires are … spongy…. 

@ghdprentice not a good analogy with the new Vette… and i’m a 5 ( so far ) Porsche guy…

1. Cross talk usually above -80dB and above. ears cannot perceive. Does it matter ?

2. Mono blocks; more cables, Near to speaker advantage? no preamp also have cables.

3. Separate Power source is advantage in mono blocs. Where as Stereo's also have separate power.

4. Equal Measurement of 2 mono blocks is also matters in SQ.

Different opinion is welcome.

Lol I have  four sets of mono blocks and one stereo amp. They are all good but I find the mono blocks just a bit better more costly in many ways to setup but toe it is worth it. 

Regards 

The more meters, the sweeter the juice.

Devils advocate, you have to consider that you need two power cords for monos. Sometimes it’s better a stereo with a high quality power cord than a Mono with medium quality PC’s, and man those can be very expensive too 

Do you have a separate dedicated power line all ready installed for each mono? Are the wall plugs both the same? Is it no problem buying two of the same power cords? If yes to all GO FOR IT

I was lucky enough to live with both the ARC Ref 160s stereo and 160m monoblocks for over two years. I have auditioned a couple other pairs as well. The differences seem pretty universal when the only difference is stereo versus monoblocks.

The monoblocks have a deeper wider and more defined soundstage. So the images are more stable and smaller, set in a larger soundstage. They are quieter (lower noise floor) helping to allow for the better imaging and soundstage. The stereo version has a bit greater impact as the power seems to be more concentrated on larger images across a smaller, shallow soundstage.

A big advantage of monoblocks is that you can locate them right next to the speakers and get really short speaker cables with will increase the dynamics and transients over a long run of speaker cable.

I think most people audiophiles would always prefer the monoblocks. However, folks that buy MacIntosh tend to value impact and slam over fitness. So, depending on your likes, it could go either way. If you drive a Corvette, get the stereo version, if you drive a Porsche get the monoblocks.

Sorry, I just have to say it... if you fall into the later category and are into highly nuanced sound and a system with great finesse... is this the right brand for you?,

@bojack  +1