Is it possible to find a good DAC for under $50, 000?

Thanks for bringing this excellent video to my attention. 

under $50k usd Wadax Studio Player hard to beat....

https://landing.wadax.eu/studio-player/

review by Robert Harley

but truthfully there are plenty of ’good’ dacs under $50k, even well under $50k. but at around $50k up to much more the new Wadax sets the performance bar very high. and it is a stand alone dac plus transport plus streamer plus will feed your amps directly as it has a volume control.

Thanks @hilde45, 

Knowledgable guy.  I rarely make it through an entire video but did in this case!

Pretty also! (the DAC) :)

Thanks for the post.  I am familiar with his analysis of issues with digital soundings from other reviews and agree with his position.  Of the many reviewers out therr, I trust his ears. Remember, there is the law of limiting  returns and the benefit/cost ratio becomes smaller as price increases. He speaks of the Tidal as a large increase in benefit. I will have to hear that myself.   My position is that there are many low priced d DACs that can get you close.  Is close good enough is as personal decision.   

I tuned this guy out quickly.

If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullsh*t.

Will I be able to hear the benefits of a $50k DAC if my ears are only gold plated, or do they need to be 24k?  

I lasted about 6 minutes.   I think I need a new obsession. 

IMHO, no component in high end audio falls under the law of diminishing returns  more than DACs. However, if you’ve got the cash..............  Happy listening

I think that once you reach a certain price level  for audio equipment, the law of diminishing  returns kicks in.  From then on you are paying an enormous premium for subtle improvements in sound reproduction that only those with exceptional hearing can notice.  And since one’s hearing declines as we age one must also wonder about the logic in spending such considerable sums of money on state of the art audio gear.  As for spending $50,000 or more on a digital to analogue converter, if you have the disposable income to do so, that’s great.

Personally,  I like the Schitt Modius that I have, which cost me slightly over $200 as a b stock unit a few years ago.  Based on my listening experience with the Modius, if it errs at all it does so by ommission, rather than commission.  

It’s provided me with many hours of listening enjoyment, without causing me to feel like I need to replace it with a more expensive dac.  Of course this is all subjective, and I no longer chase gear like I did for decades.  Interestingly enough, I also enjoy this hobby more  than ever because I now spend my time listening to music rather than particular sounds that my audio system is producing. 

Something which I enjoyed early on this hobby but later found to be more of a distraction.  YMMV... 🤔

Wow! Impressive presentation & command of speaking w/ lithe or no “ timing errors”…. Seriously, obviously a very intelligent man & very well spoken! 
 

I do wonder how the differences & details he outlined might be different using  a high sensitivity speaker w/ tube electronics which often have quite different harmonic distortion qualities & often more sir & space around & between instruments & voices? 
 

Lastly, if he can hear all of that w/ the equipment on Salamander racks w/ plastic casters, why does anyone need a really high end rack w/ fancy spikes or isolation devices? 

I believe this was supposed to air on April 1st, because it most certainly is a freaking joke.

Change the title to "Under $100.00", and you actually have something.

$50k  for under $10 k  a number of very good sounding dacs 

$50k I have heard ,excellent  but should be expected , starting from the router, LPS power supplies good cables, and quality Ethernet hub , you can get to over 90+% for dood dac imp,DCS has a $120 k 3 box setup including shipping !!

something things are nuts,$15 k for a 1.5 m loudspeaker cables 

I guess if you have money to 🔥 burn  why not l

Sometimes the gear has to be this price otherwise the wise folks with money won't buy it. A great example is the PlayBack Designs Dream DAC (at $24k) vs the Nagra DAC. The PBD Dream was built by a guy who knows digital technology since he was there at the start. The Nagra is outsourcing the the PDB boards.

Try and guess if PBD is OEM-ing the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd best boards to Nagra. Then guess which DAC costs more.

Lots of people (including audiophiles) would likely think that I was a fool to pay ~$6k for a DAC. But I'm very happy with my Aqua La Scala, and do not believe that paying multiples more could possibly provide other than wildly diminished returns.

In fact, it would be far easier for me to believe that there are DACs that cost half, or a third of the La Scala, that also sound really good, than that $15k or $25K DACs sound significantly (if at all) better.

I could not pay over $2500 for any DAC. I begin to question my own sanity and how ridiculous the cost of my audio system is at that budget. In many ways (not knocking others here) I find the significance of my stereo is not that great compared to other things in my life.  $50k range would go to an automobile, roof on my house, siding on my house, college funds etc. Not a single DAC.

For the 97%

Buying used... you can put together an entire system for $10k... and it will sound very good in a treated room. If you can afford $30> $50k it will sound great!

The new ridiculous pricing for equipment and speakers is BS... it's fine for the 3% to spend a million bucks to impress their friends ... if they have friends... 

I just heard the DCS Lina DAC and Clock with a pair of Nordost Odin Gold digital cables.

Very nice but $50k+ for the combo.

Money would be better spent on a really good pre-amp, speakers and cables.

anyone who has 50K for a DAC, lives in a different world. 

The only way to tell a $50K DAC apart from a sub - $1K DAC is with your eyes.

After the passing of Harry Pearson TAS has lost all credibility.

Remember the old TV commercial where a beautiful female model looks straight into the camera and states "Don’t hate me because I’m beautiful?"  Well, the same applies to our more well-heeled audiophiles.  Don’t hate, or question, or resent our wealthy audiophiles just because they can afford to spend huge amounts of money on high end audio, and you can’t (myself included), LOL!!!  There’ll away be......"The Haves and the Have Nots in every market, including high end audio.  That Ferrari costs $375K.  Do you get angry every time you see someone driving one?   Thankfully, nowadays, in modern high end audio, excellent sound quality can be had at every price point.  But, you can always dream.  Happy listening.  

"The only way to tell a $50K DAC apart from a sub - $1K DAC is with your eyes."

@Jasonbourne71 - respectfully, it would be better if you used your ears.

@kennymacc It is one thing to have 50K for a DAC and it is another to buy one. And hate or envy has zero to do with it.

@kennymacc +1

The mention of high dollar gear sure brings out the annimosity in these threads. I don't understand the point.  Where do people think the trickle-down technology that goes into mid-priced gear comes from? Somebody has to buy the high-priced stuff or designers wouldn't be able to fund their time and costs necessary to bring us upgraded technology.  Is some of that money going for the name-brand, prestige, bragging rights, and bling factor - sure. However, as already pointed out, that is just the way it works with almost anything.

To quote the TV commercial for dog food:

”What are we doin’ here?”

I am not sure how one ties “envy” to the conversation of buying a $50k DAC? In my comment I stated (not knocking others here) with regard to my desire to spend a ceiling amount on audio equipment. There could be 1,000 reasons why someone would not spend $50k on a DAC and envy would be just one. Where does the assumption come in that “envy” would be the reason? It says something about anyone who would automatically assume this. Audio equipment is fun, it’s emotional, it’s important…. but it is also just boxes of wires. For anyone spending huge sums of money on something they like, great! I am all for it providing it does no harm to me or others and an uber expensive DAC is great, just not for me. Envy has zero to do with it.

Why all the angst?  No one is saying you should buy it.  Don't you ever like to look at say exotic cars or classic cars or boats or for women expensive fashion or jewelry etc?  It is informative.  And gorgeous.  And probably sounds stunning.

I may be in the minority here, but I do think it’s overkill to spend 50K on a DAC. Even if you could afford it, how much better will it help you get into the music, which I believe is the central point of our hobby?  You certainly can do that for a hell of a lot less money. If you want to hear the breathing of the cellist, or the stomp of the conductor on the podium and such, that’s fine.   Spend it.
Audio has reached a point today where 99.5 of what’s on a recording can be produced just fine with relatively modest cost.  
I don’t begrudge the spending of big money for audio equipment for getting that .5 percent.  I just don’t see the point of it.

Utter nonsense.  I challenge ANYONE here to see if they can hear the difference between a $50,000 DAC and a $5000 one.  Hell, even a $1500 DAC.  You don't need to spend as much on a DAC as you would on a car.

I recently read an editorial that obliquely tackles this subject.  The main point was who actually had a true reference as to what is a perfect reproduction.  Many recordings are not venue specific.  Those that are were made in the past in a place no one can revisit.  So unless one is a musician what sets the standard?  

@guscreek 

I don't believe most audiophiles want a warts and all true reproduction, especially the valve contingent. Live music can be very noisy and brash, a far cry from the warmth of valves. Transistors are more accurate and truthfull and take far longer to suffer wear and degradation.

Same here. I don't now what a 50K DAC would do vs. a 5K but that's my ignorance.

Also, I am not on any blog or forum that has members with 300K Ferraris. Maybe there are a few here.

When watching a dramatic movie, a ’lack of continuity’ in a scene can disrupt the viewer’s ’suspension of disbelief’.   It could be anything - such as an actor’s incorrect eyeline or mismatched action in the edit.   Whatever the cause for the lack of continuity, the viewer’s attention is distracted and removed from the story-telling experience. The scene loses believability for the viewer.   A filmmaker wants to capture the audience’s attention and keep them engaged throughout the story.

The reviewer in this video is describing a similar concept when listening to music.  If a listener is knowledgeable about the authentic sound of musical instruments and their nuances, distortion in the playback disrupts their listening experience.  Their attention is distracted.  The listener is no longer engaged.  The reviewer proceeds to explain how distortion occurs in the digital realm. And how that particular DAC mitigates it - in order to allow the music to be as believable as possible.   He also describes the criteria that he uses for reviewing audio reproduction in various components. For a serious music lover, his review makes perfect sense.

In the video, his delivery is very dry and clinical - but the content is quite informative.  He talks about the major challenge of reproducing the authentic sounds of cymbals and the high notes of a piano.   Probably very few systems on AudiogoN do those well.   Probably very few posters on this thread have heard a system that does those well.*

Mocking the price of a component on a discussion forum that promotes high fidelity audio is kind of bizarre.   Do people mock the price of a Ferrari on an exotic car discussion forum?

- - -

* Though, there are a few posters on this thread that know the authentic sound of acoustic instruments quite well.

Orchard audio dac for 1500 is amazing 

Lost in translation.  Are we angry about the 50K price, mad at the dybbuks who can afford one or convinced there cannot be differences?  Yes, diminishing returns.

I own four different DACs at distinct price points and yes each improves performance measurably with the price point increase.  $300/2K/6K/12K

News alert, we live in the age of excess.  Logic’s ticket got punched and took a transfer line.  Be still.  Nobody said you had to play or pay for that matter.

Regularly, I attended CES when it was very A/V oriented and some heavy hitters showed.  I heard expensive awful systems at times.  Don’t buy them.  Period.

Sometimes it is very much a Rod Serling moment.  Cheers

Some people are bummed that their budget is insufficient to participate in wanted products, so they change the focus to lash out to blame somebody else so that they can feel better about themselves.  Jealousy and envy is pointless, the only fruit is self misery so best to avoid which can be difficult if lack of maturity.  

Money is relative. $50,000 is a lot of money to me, but to some people it really is not. so if I try to analyze their buying decision (and why would I even do that?)based on my perspective on money, I start from a flawed premise and will reach a flawed result, Value is also relative. One could easily spend $50,000 on a Cartier Watch and some people do. I have a $75 30-year-old Seiko that I’m quite happy with because expensive watches don’t bring me any joy. But it doesn’t trigger an emotional response in me if someone shells out for the Cartier watch. We just have different concepts of value when it comes to watches.

I certainly think that you can buy a quality DAC For way less than $50,000 and probably  less than $5,000 but that doesn’t mean that this $50,000 DAC doesn’t represent value to some people. I’ll never buy it, but I don’t feel the need to denigrate those who do. I also absolutely believe in the law of diminishing returns and I think you pay dearly at the top end for relatively small increases in performance, but diminishing returns doesn’t mean no return. For a few people, it’s worth it, for most of us it’s not.  This money thing often seems to trigger an emotional response, and I find that hard to understand. 
there is also the fact that I have not heard this DAC so I couldn’t possibly pass any judgment on how it sounds. i’m happy there are people willing to buy at this level, however, because I think ultimately it helps us all and I’m also happy that we live in a time where you can buy a really nice system for a relatively small amount of money. Each to their own

I saw that review and similar comments on the video.  The good thing is the price is only 47K so with a 50K budget you have 3K to upgrade the cables. I’m thinking of upgrading my $1300 Holo Audio Cyan 2 DAC to the Top line May DAC used which is $3K more.  Not going to do it so I can pay the mortgage instead.  I have got to get my priorities in order.  

 Thanks for the link.

That was a very informative and interesting presentation on DACs, signal processing and the resulting signal quality.

Very much enjoyed it.

As an avid DIY’er of gear, I have to listen for subtle details the value, or quality of a given part in the signal path. These subtle differences really do add up to an improvement in the presentation of the music, and the enjoyment of the music. Suspension of disbelief. Hollywood irks hard to keep you unaware of the chair you are sitting in or the fact you are looking at an artificial world. Different, as you are likely watching a movie for the first time, and will not watch it again for some time. As opposed to music where we might listen to the same song several times through the course of a week.

I don’t understand why people love to hate on expensive gear. Or why they insist there is no difference , even though they have never heard the gear in question. Is that ignorance? I don’t know.

TAS.  The magazine that told us when MQA was released that everyone’s DAC was now obsolete.  They clearly cater to the one percenters, and that’s fine, but they are so disparaging of excellent and comparatively affordable equipment that I just find them not credible 

  If you have the $ and the ears that can detect the most minute of difference, then enjoy.  From what I’ve heard of five figure DACs, the most performance is realized at the $5K range.  From $5K to $15K one can squeeze maybe a smidge more, and above that one probably needs a system in the $500K range to detect any improvement.

Kind of posted this as a joke. Most took it seriously. Interesting fact, in and of itself.

I'm pretty sure there are no noticeable differences above a fairly modest price point.

And, for any who claims they can hear a difference, I'd want to see proof that every other choke point in the system had been worked out – room, amps, everything.

But most do not go to that trouble before pronouncing on differences that they could not notice.

Without controlling variables of a certain magnitude, the differences people report are really them expressing their love for their own opinion.

Kind of posted this as a joke

based on your name and the content, that's what I thought, but who has any sense of humor here :)

There are so many great sounding DACs ​​​​​​under  $5k it's silly.    I listened to several around $1500 to $6k.   In the end I chose one a little over $3k.   Almost 3 years in and still love how it sounds.   Never been a better time for digital audio that's somewhat affordable. 

@celtic66 "...I own four different DACs at distinct price points and yes each improves performance measurably with the price point increase.  $300/2K/6K/12K."...

+1

I have also owned DACS from $200 - $2K - $20K. I agree. particularly when you double the price point you get a significant increase in performance. Small incremental changes in investment can just provide different but not better. I can tell appreciate a better sounding DAC... even if it its design goals are not the target sound type I want. Poor choices in your purchase and you can get a DAC with the wrong kind of sound... for instance if you like musical renditions of sound and you buy a detail scraping DAC then from your point of view, it may not sound better. 

My components are all at the $20K level. If my financial position changed and I was able to upgrade to the $40K level I would do so, and appreciate the improved sound quality. I have not gotten to the point where I can’t tell the difference between levels, what I own is financially constrained. 

I just watched a video on a guy around here that has a million dollar system. He spent over twenty years on the room and the equipment. I see him as a comrade, someone I can relate to... someone who loves music. I would very much enjoy listening to his system and trading stories about the journey we took to get where we are. I would not criticize him for being more financially successful than I have been, more dedicated to the pursuit, or somehow being a bad person because I am jealous of him. 

The technical issues with digital brought up in video are well known, I've read any number of white papers written by well regarded dac designers stating these same issues.

The amount of diminishing returns with any audio component dependent on the quality of the entirety of one's system. I don't doubt reviewer is hearing exactly what he claims, he has access to far more equipment at all price levels than any of us, and he can evaluate all these components at his leisure in an optimized system and room. The issues he's speaking to are not going to be of great consequence in lesser systems, money probably better spent elsewhere. Based on my own experience with ever better streamers/dacs  I don't doubt greater strides towards a more analog/lifelike  presentation are continually being made.