I recently Purchased a new pair of Dynaudios. The floor model I auditioned were 'Made in Denmark' but the pair which was shipped out by the dealer was 'Made in China'. They are still boxed. Whats should I do:
1. Swap with the showroom floor model (they were probably a yr or 2 old)
2. Unbox and use my 'Made in china' pair ?
My main concern here is the quality of the product from China. Resale values.
Back in 1986 I bought 20 various Dynaudio woofers and 20 Dynaudio tweeters. I bought them from Meniscus, when Dynaudio still sold drivers to individuals. I still have them, NOS NIB.
I bought them for car audio installations, and they were exceptional drivers! But, my first project was only given “Honorable Mention” because in competitions, only name-brand car audio drivers were allowed, ie Kenwood, Alpine, Pioneer, Kicker, and the like.
So what should I do with these drivers? They’re taking up space in my garage workshop.
that's a little late regarding how bike manufacturing works. It has been in play since the early 90's on a large scale. I worked for a Taiwanese OEM frame manufacturer that made frames for all the recognized names-Bianchi included. There are a handful of that make the majority of mass market frames across the board-low end to high.
I doubt there is another person in this thread who gives a damn about bicycle frames but I would and do quibble with your dates. I may not have been in the industry but I know bikes as a former sponsored amateur. Giant and Trek came out with consumer CF in the early 90's but the TdF squads did not widely adopt CF until 1999. I just confirmed for myself that in the '98 TdF most squads were riding aluminum. Those early 90's CF frames were not competitive with Ti and Al.
And I am no stranger to custom steel and likely know more than you do on that front as I have met close to 50 custom builders at various shows and own four customs, a Weigle, Landshark, Rob English, and Speedvagen.
Why would you want to buy anything from a country known for poor quality control and cheap labor. You get what you pay for. Not to mention China has concentration camps for Muslims incarcerating 1-2 million, not to mention wiring Muslims homes so the police can listen in on their living room conversation. To hell with them. Get rid of those speakers while you still can.
I love my carbon bike. My 'Tour de France Proven' Calfee Design Tetra was made at the west side Wrigley's factory and has that forgiving chewy ride compared to those produced at the bucolic La Selva Beach local.
I think I finished twelfth in the 00 Sequel Surf Circus Criterium, maybe not.
I'm down with Tadej Pogacar to win and Aleksandr Vlasov for two stages.
I once had a Parlee on order, back in my racing days. I canceled the order when I found out I was getting a Bianchi XL for free from a sponsor. As you likely know Parlee and Calfee have a similar heritage. I am not aware that any Pro Tour squad has ever raced a Calfee at the TdF. I take it your reference is to the fact that early on Calfees were built at a "Wrigley factory" before Selva Beach. I had to look that up. France has a custom builder of carbon using by-the-tube construction, too, Cyfac. And John Slawta of Landshark and ENVE both build by-the-tube construction custom carbon fiber frames too. Carl Strong was but just hung it up.
If it’s been stated I apologize but that to me would make a big difference. If I bought some Contours or Confidence that are advertised as made in Denmark I would return them if they changed manufacturing locations without the dealer telling me. Or…. I would suggest a large discount.
I can’t imagine any of their other models are made in Denmark. Maybe Special 40?
Jakeman: "But, I prefer not to buy from a country that has nuclear weapons aimed at us" The US does not have nuclear weapons aimed at China? The US did not bomb the crap out of Lao - the per capita most heavily bombed country ever in the world? Seriously, why would anyone buy anything from a country that elected your previous president? Some of you on this site are unbelievably racist.
@laoman As an Asian myself you are not adding anything to the thread by calling everyone who disagrees with you as "Racist". Is Criticism or and negativity not allowed ?
Do you not see the rise in Crime/violence against us Asians with our Current President ? Also "Elected your previous president"....unlike China.
Live in the Present ,for the Future and Learn from the Past.
Keep your name calling and politics out of this thread.
sethbowers and laoman: Just because somebody doesn't want to purchase a product made in a certain country, doesn't mean they are necessarily racist.
My Asian wife and her whole family have no love for anything China. Nor does my my best friend, who happens to be Asian, of nearly 40 years. Are they also "racist"?
I don't want to purchase anything made in Russia. Am I now a "racist"?
Several of my close friends only purchase Toyota's. Are they "racist"?
Stop being part of one of the biggest problems in this country by looking at everything through the lens of race. FFS
Now Jakeman's statement on China's nuclear capabilities may be misinformed, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's a racist.
Anyway, if the OP wants to limit his dollars going to help the economy of a particular nation, that's his choice. That's the free market. If he likes the product, but would prefer the Danish made models, no biggie. He can see if his dealer would like to swap out for their demo models. By that same token, if someone doesn't mind or prefers to purchase products made in China or any other country, that is also their choice and shouldn't be attacked or slandered, just the same.
While concern about where a particular product is made may not be in itself racists, it does show either internal prejudice or concern with other's prejudices.
I don't doubt for a minute I could find mistreatment of certain peoples, or some unfair practices in every country on this earth. I'm sure I've purchased items of all sorts from manufacturers and countries that engage in harms to some people. One could measure one country against another in making this choice which totally ignores the individuals and/or single manufacturer in equation. For instance, I could purchase product from a country I prefer, yet from individual or manufacturer that mistreats people. I could also purchase from less preferred country from individual or manufacturer that treats people well.
Do people seriously believe all citizens/companies from any individual country are all uniformerly bad or good? Are those so focused on audio equipment country of origin as concerned about all their other purchases? I presume every single individual on this planet has purchased products from entities that have caused harms to others. How does one draw the line when these products so ubiquitous?
GoerTek – a consumer electronics company based in China – has announced it has acquired the majority of shares in Dynaudio (in 2014), the high-end speaker manufacturer founded in 1977. THEY OWN Dynaudio. Maybe they should change the name to "Chinaudio" but of course they won’t as long as they can continue to trade on the popularity of the original brand name. This happens (and has) to many once great companies.
That they choose to manufacture in cheaper communist China is their decision to help THEIR bottom line, and so they can compete with all the other companies making $500 to $5000 speakers there.
Are they upholding the original quality? Maybe, maybe not. Heck, it might be BETTER.
I note that more than one consumer has had issues with woofers rattling on Dali (Danish Audio) Oberon 9 speakers ($1250 each) that were made in communist China. This has given me pause about buying them for sure.
If it bothers you, send them back, get a refund, and see what else is out there.
If it bothers you now, it will forever bother you, and be a lingering, festering issue, no matter how "good" you think they sound.
Or you could print out some "Made in Denmark" stickers and put them over the "Made in China" ones and call it a day.
I started in the bike industry in 1989, met Gary Klein at his Chehalis, WA, "factory" in 1988, owned the first neon green Klein Pinnacle, a custom Land Shark, Wicked Fat, IF Deluxe and Davidson Impulse show bike, among others.
😆😜
@tablejockey not sure I would classify the steel/ti/aluminum frame business in the US as boutique anymore. Like LPs, it seems to be having a resurgence of late, IMHO, even as some of the legends (Ted Wojcik, etc.) retire
Do what u think is right! All of us will have a different answer, etc.
we own 2 pair of Energy RC-70 speakers. 1 pair made on china, other in Canada.
have switched them so many times, no difference in sound, had the drivers all pulled out to replace a crossovers on the Canadian pair.
Cabinets are the same, sealed woofs and tweeter, same!
Both sound godlike, I will not part with them, unless in can get a pair of acoustic energy ae520, Or BIC Realta Venturi. B and w 800 series w 15” woof from mid 90’s, those had some wallop in the low end”
Hey....here's a list of companies you can avoid if MIC is that big a concern for you.
Granted it only represents 1% of American and other countries with business ties in China, but, it's a start.
"own four customs, a Weigle, Landshark, Rob English, and Speedvagen."\
Nice! Add me to the short list of people who care about Dynaudios ( I own the Heritage Specials and the Focus 160s ) and steel bikes. Nothing custom in my stable yet, but my daily driver is a Masi 3V, built in the velodrome in 1984 by Alberto Masi (it would seem ) and now restored and repainted by Joe Bell. I've also just built up a Coppi Lugano with Genius tubing. Both have modern Campy Athena groups. If / when I go custom, it'll either be a Speedvagen ( congrats! ) or a Bishop.
As for the speakers, I am sure I paid a premium to have my Heritage Specials built in Denmark, but that was a large part of their appeal for me. Transparency matters.
Thought he was buying Made In Denmark,got Made In China
return them and get the Denmark made Model IF it is still available.I am sure the price paid was for the Denmark Model.Resale will be impacted.If a discount is offered then maybe keep them?
If the concern is a resale value in the future, it could be the issue, because for sure there will be more China originated speakers than made in Denmark ones. Floor / display pair should have discount, you may try to negotiate.
I’ve seen very good and very bad things PRC made, for example all Apple products I have are made in China, no complains!
As others have mentioned, many quality items manufactured/produced in PRC, depends on quality demanded by company outsourcing.
And, oh by the way, nearly every audio component is falsely advertised as product of whatever country, you'll find PRC and various other nation's components within all. Purity in one's sense of values/principles is violated by one's very existence in this material world..
If the price between the made in China speakers and the made in Denmark speakers remained the same, who benefited? Clue, it wasn’t the consumer who benefited from the lower cost of manufacturing.
I realize this is a few days 'late' and a bit too long, but I just haven't had the time to reply until now.
The OP has asked if the value will hold as well as 'other' Dyn's made in Denmark.
--TLDR; - The answer is no, they will not. Just look at the values of the newest Contour line vs the 'older' Contour line. - The 60's are just not holding their value the same. Whereas my 'older' Contours are still increasing in value.--
I have had Dynaudio products for the last 25 years. Currently I have 3 systems in which all 3 have Dyn's at the end of them. They are all Contour series prior to 2014.
I am also in the process of trying to find C4's MKii or Evidence for my Main system (All prior to 2014).
Dynaudio was purchased in either 2014 or 2015 by a gentleman from the Bay Area who is Chinese. (His ethnicity matters not) - Whenever this happens the new owners always think they can cut costs somewhere, and that is exactly what they did. They introduced what they claim are 'better' drivers in newer cabinets. - ALL RUBBISH. I am not saying they don't sound good, I am saying they sound very different from the earlier Dyn's. And, crucially, all of the Dynaudio fans prior to the exchange know it because we have ears. My dealer that I have been using for ages has actually dropped Dynaudio as a result.
The drivers in the newer series are actually smaller and they claim better. They are also voiced different. I have only heard this on the Counters and not the new Confidence line, but from the other Dynaudio people I know who have tried them all agree. The newer ones sound good, But they have lost the Dynaudio magic.
I don't know of anyone who I have been associated with that have Dyn's over the years that have tried the newer series that have kept them. Every one of them have swapped back over to the older series when they could find them.
That should tell you everything you need to know.
Appologies for the late reply, and I hope this helps
1. YBA has always been clear their products are designed by Yves-Bernard Andre in France
2. Yves-Bernard continues as Chief Designer of ALL YBA products
3. Yves-Bernard continues as part of the YBA ownership team based in Hong Kong
4. Yves-Bernard oversees/trains ALL YBA production and personally QC all Signature production although COVID-1984 has limited the latter
Sadly, many audio companies avoid clearly stating & acknowledging country of production. Kudos to Dynaudio for at least indicating on cartons. The key is training/managing the production staff to adhere to QC principles as implemented in home country.
My current made in China KEF R3s are impeccable in every respect.
OTOH, my former (made in London) 1979 Tannoy HPD315 coaxial drivers were somewhat shabbily assembled, in particular with a wrinkle in the foam surround of one of the woofers, and unevenly applied gaskets on the outer rim of the woofer frame.
I just bought a $75k luxury performance EV that was made in a state of the art “super factory” in China. It’s engineered in Sweden so the quality is spec’d from European standards. The build quality exceeds that of Tesla which is made in America. I absolutely love this car, it’s the best car I’ve ever had or driven. I don’t really care that it’s made in China. Let’s face it, almost everything is made there now, so as long as the engineering standards are high, the end product should be great!
If you're talking about the Polestar, you're one lucky owner. Every review seems to love it. That, and it has the looks whereas the Tesla looks like it was designed by someone who used to design toasters.
My, there is a tremendous amount of misinformation up here. I’ll start by identifying myself as someone who works for a Dynaudio dealer. So let’s start with a few facts. Yes, Dynaudio is now primarily owned by the Chinese. So are any number of brands considered North American and European. Dynaudio products are all designed in Denmark by Dynaudio engineers in one of the largest research facilities in Europe with a very advanced anechoic chamber for testing. Design of all their products is done there by the same engineering group. They have transitioned the manufacture of some of their more moderately priced products to China in order to remain competitive with the rest of the market. Who is the rest of the market? Virtually everyone selling in the moderate price ranges, with a few exceptions. Bowers and Wilkins speakers in the 600 and 700 series are made in China, I believe the 800 series are still made in the UK. All the PSB speakers we have in here (Imagine and Image series) are made in China, many or the Paradigm speakers and Sonus Faber speakers we used to carry are made in China, etc., etc. As for Dynaudio the Confidence, Contour, Special Forty and Heritage speakers are all made in Denmark. The entry level Emits are made in China and at least the bookshelf Evokes are made in China. The floor standing Evokes we have on the floor are made in Denmark but for all I know they may be transitioning them to China as well. Does this signal a slip in quality? Certainly not that we have seen. The Evoke is substantially more musical than the series it replaced. So much so that the I version of the Contour was partly inspired by needing to keep them musically well above the new Evokes. The new Emits are a huge improvement over the last Emit series and are also more substantially built. The early Evoke bookshelf speakers were from Denmark. One of my customers bought a pair and his came from China. Like the OP he wasn’t happy with this change, which we weren’t aware of, so we swapped our demos for his pair and, as they were both the same finish, he is a happy camper. There was no physical nor audible difference between the made in Denmark and the made in China pair as they were engineered identically and are made to the same standards.
As mentioned by some others if you want to be biased against made in China stuff you might as well move to the forest and give up electronics (that includes appliances). Certainly don’t go into a WalMart. Most appliances from familiar US names are made in China if not actually owned by Chinese companies. And the companies many think of as American Hi-Fi manufactures are also often owned by overseas companies. Nowadays, with computers at the heart of cars, appliances and numerous other devices you would be hard pressed to find anything with electronics in it without some Chinese parts. Not to mention that US, Canadian and European companies have been having high-quality yet moderately priced equipment manufactured in China for decades with many award winners among the products. NAD and Bluesound (Canadian) and Cambridge Audio (UK) are two quite prominent ones.
The idea that the OP receiving speakers made in China when he thought there were from Denmark being ‘Bait and Switch” is ludicrous on a couple of counts. Most importantly the dealer is not told by the manufacturer when they switch manufacturing to a different factory. I certainly wasn’t aware of the change until my customer notified me. But wanting to keep the customer happy I gladly made the switch, and as a result my demo is more representative. However, most customers never ask about the country of manufacture. Some may assume, rightly or wrongly, where things are made but that certainly isn’t bait and switch by the dealer, nor by the manufacturer unless they state somewhere that the series of products are made in a certain place. I had another customer who listened to the B&W 705 Signatures and loved them. She bought a pair and when she got them home noticed they were made in China. She called and asked about it and I checked ours and found they were also made in China. Once she was sure that what she had gotten was the same as what she heard she was fine with it and she is very happy with her system.
So to the OP I would say if the whole made in China thing bugs you so much (despite the fact that there will be no musical or measurable difference between the two) then call the dealer and see if they are willing to swap for the demos. But don’t expect some whopping deal because you are buying demos as the dealer has already paid the normal cost for the pair they sold you which they will put on demo. Otherwise just keep the ones you have and be secure in the knowledge that you have gotten a fine product for the money.
I am sure that there are lots of audiophiles who care about bicycles, especially about the “feel” of the frames. I bet there’s a correlation between tube lovers and those who prefer steel and titanium frames. I ride a lugged steel Eddy Merckx, a titanium Litespeed Pisgah (bought just after the Lynsky’s sold the business), and a made in America Niner RLT Steel gravel bike. I owned an early carbon framed Trek mountain bike (and cracked the frame); it felt way too “solid state” to me!
I also deal a lot with China professionally. Individually, some of the finest friends anyone could ever want, humans are similar everywhere, but the societal culture is quite different from here. A handshake agreement in business is not the same as it is here or in Europe. Thus, I have basic concerns about quality control and standing behind a manufactured product, and is the reason that I prefer to buy from companies with tradition and commitment.
Owned many Parasound Halo products over the years, and never one issue with any of them. Designed in the USA, made in China. That should squash anyones quality difference issue. For contrast, I have owned PS Audio BHK (300 monos, pre, DAC etc), designed and made in Merica. 2 bad mono amps, failure with a P20, and a sprout that had to be returned for repair. Dogshit quality, and will never buy again from that “Made in America” stamped company.
I believe that the quality of Chinese built electronics is just as good most likely, and there's not much we can do about the shift of manufacturing to China, but I just think many of us are just unsettled knowing that they are plotting our future demise, whether or not they're successful.
Hey, our most popular antibiotics are made (mostly) in China, thank heavens. And since they make most everything else electronic, why get excited and become racists now? Besides, the people from China that sell us things are nice folks.
We almost shot ourselves in the foot with the whole America First conspiracy, thank goodness we reeled that back in.
You observed that the dealers pair were made in Denmark. So you naturally thought you were purchasing a made in Denmark pair of speakers. It’s not your responsibility to know that Dynaudio had switched their production to China. Dealers should receive build updates directly from the manufacturer to ensure consumers know where their products are being made!
Classic bait and switch! The dealer should have emphasized you’d be getting a pair made in China.
Is it fair to automatically assume everything made in China is sub par quality?
IMO, no. Seems to me, China today is roughly where Japan was in the 60s and early 70s. "Made in Japan" rather quickly went from meaning "cheap junk" (plastic toys and flip flops) to being a standard of excellence in engineering and manufacturing. Likewise, China is producing much more than cheap T shirts and sneakers these days. Some Chinese HiFi products (especially streamers and DACs) are about as good as (or better than) anything on the market, unless you get into ultra high end stuff. Have a look at Lumin products for example. Actually, Lumin is veering into ultra high end (depending on we define that).
I don't know about Made in China loudspeakers, but wouldn't automatically assume they're inferior. Just try to verify there is decent after-sale service/support for wherever you live, Loudspeakers are challenging just by virtue of size/weight compared to rack components.
Gotta love the sane, reasoned arguments posted here with the occasional xenophobic responses peppered in for good measure, as if they just skimmed past what makes sense so their heads wouldn't explode.
To Bill K. Commended for what everyone and there mother knows that audio from china is 9 times out of ten a inferior less quality product those people take no pride in what they make it’s always been that way. Tahquitz
I recommend not buying "floor models", especially with speakers, as they typically have had a "hard life" and a lot of hours on them for their age.
For the last 20+ years, components for all sorts of products have been "globally sourced", so it's likely that the "Made in Denmark" label refers to where the final assembly took place.
Having said all of that, do what makes you happiest!
Personally, I'd return them. I recently bought the Evoke 20 speakers and mine are manufactured in Denmark. I refuse to pay the inflated prices that companies are charging for product coming out of China (whenever I can). I specifically searched for non-China speakers.
Well, those speakers made in China subsidized the pricing and increased the profit margins you paid for those made in Denmark so you should have asked for a discount as well.
Also your MIC list is BS as many of those companies are manufacturing in China for Chinese Domestic Market Only. Their are anti dumping laws that prevent many of those companies from exporting to the US.
Must have been made on a Monday. Like British cars from those times, the employees were working off their hangovers from the weekend.
It is hard to know the quality. Having some experience, some companies set up their own factory and train the workers and buy good equipment for their chinese factories with serious quality control and IMO, those products can be just as good if not better then products produced elsewhere. In other cases, the company reps will simply travel to the area of china that makes speakers and contract with a third party company to build speakers to some level of specification and leave the quality control to them, and even the design in some instances. Dyn is a great company but we have all had great brand names make some poor products in china. It is very hard to know. Can you find reviews of the Chinese product or see it/listen to it first. I feel like this is like any product, read, listen, inspect the actual product yourself. Good luck.
It is in your head and you will always wonder. Who would want that hanging over their head? It is difficult to shake those thoughts. I would say my self the eventual stress and ask for the switch.
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