I recently Purchased a new pair of Dynaudios. The floor model I auditioned were 'Made in Denmark' but the pair which was shipped out by the dealer was 'Made in China'. They are still boxed. Whats should I do:
1. Swap with the showroom floor model (they were probably a yr or 2 old)
2. Unbox and use my 'Made in china' pair ?
My main concern here is the quality of the product from China. Resale values.
Looks like jerry's got his wires crossed, as usual. Those companies listed have American products sold here, made there. And yes, there is an audience of buyers there as well. It isn't one way or the other: it's both ways being done at the same time with it being very, very easy to build for both intended audiences in the same plant.
As for quoting me, did it go over your addled head that I was referencing a British made product that the person who mentioned it, has (the 1979 Tannoy made in London)?
In the 1950s and early 60s, anything made in Japan was generally considered to be junk (and some of it was). As others on this thread have said, the branding company's profit margin is usually the biggest determining factor in the quality of the product. Chinese manufacturing facilities are equal to anything that the US has to offer (or probably any other country). Still, it is hard to shake that 'Made In China' stigma that many people have a hard time overcoming.
Here is my take on made in China. Though we would love to have everything made in Denmark or the United States or any free country, companies continue to have a communist adversary to build everything you can imagine. Here is the deal. How closely the parent company on quality control and if their specifications are being followed?. I own a Primaluna integrated built in China. The workmanship inside (I looked), and out is flawless. The sound is Amazing. I built my DYI speakers with a woofer made in China. Most are made there anyway. Rubber surround, woven carbon fiber, and very good. I do not believe normally quality control in China is reliable as free countries. But if they stay on spec, they do very well.
If having a non free country making your speakers bother you, I suggest you get the Denmark ones. But the ones you have I bet will sound great.
You sure seem like a class act! Blaming democrats for bringing politics into the discussion while making no attempt to hide your own nasty bias and views about the current president. I would welcome the day when someone like you is not able to afford any of the stuff listed here.
Taking delivery 2morrow. A month on the boat, 2morrow to the door.
comparisons? My Brit 1SC ProAc’s, Mystere PA11/Denafrips Hyperion, Athena preamp, Benchmarck Dac3/SMSL VMV D2, Rotel Tribute CD player, VPI turntable, Bobs Sky, Dynavector. Some, Elacs, Zu’s, Castels, Daedalus, ADS, Kef, ect… about the house. $1500 + shipping. Dyn drivers, premium crossovers, hdmi construction, go figure… Yamaha AS amp, Nakamichi cassette, 3 dedicated lines, Rel sub. Current system sounds better than a 50k stack I had getting into this hobby years ago.
oh, I gotta crazy purple Klein Rascal n cherry condition hanging on my bike rack too! Enjoyed the read, but growing up outside Detroit I’ll take ‘quality’ where I find it. Nothing stays the same, nor should it.
Nope wrong as usual. Several of those companies have plants in China to make products strictly for domestic consumption. Your liberal anti capitalism brain can’t get past the facts.
For several of those companies there are 93% terrify on their products due to Anti Dumping laws so there is zero cost benefit to manufacturing in China and exporting to the US.
No hate you are just wrong. Love it when the know it all knows nothing about the subject he posted.
Have a nice evening.
Looks like jerry's got his wires crossed, as usual. Those companies listed have American products sold here, made there. And yes, there is an audience of buyers there as well.
jerry, that is a very long list of companies that only represents about 1% of American companies doing business (having factories there for our consumption). If you had simply read the header (the stuff before the list) you’d see that these companies produce there for consumption, here. That's the reason for the list.
They are fully capable of running parallel lines of products and use pre made labeling for intended markets. It’s common practice.
Half of all industrial goods enter out country duty free with an average tariff rate of only 2%. We can charge anywhere from 0% to 550% tariff on goods to discourage dumping practices. It’s just not done that much since it’s relatively easy to know if a country is selling it’s products here for less than they charge for their own market.
What you don’t seem to grasp is that it is American companies using Chinese labor and lax pollution standards to make products for our use. You really need to lose the red, white and blue colored glasses.
Supply chain issue is not nesscessily a quality issue but cost-issue.
reason why you receive a Made in China pair of speaker while you are still asking for a made in denmark thing?
why you receive not a made in denmark thing? obviously that your cash paid is not enough for a made in denmark. but deep in your heart you are longing for a demmark thing?
so why not return your pair and pay more for the real made in denmark thing? but before you return, ask your self, did your dealer promise your product is made in danish?
by the way, as in previous post, one day when you find your denmark brand speaker come from vienam or india, then you will miss MIC made in China.
China makes great things now and look around your life, it is not that Made in China not good. but that your buy cheaper Made in China thing and it look so not good.
pay more to test some very high end of China things before you buy made in india or made in cambolia.
No not at all noise it is that your post is wrong period.
AIG only invests in the fastest market in the world and exports NOTHING.
GM is in China for the DOMESTIC Chinese market 99% of GM China sales is domestic (pacific rim). They export 2 model to the US and they are both EV with very very low sales in the US, Again anti dumping laws supported by GM and Ford.
Ford again the same business model as GM and only imported 1 model from China to the US and that was very low volume Ford Focus. Ford Exports over $900m a year in parts from the US to China and GM and Ford do not make any parts they are only assemblers. This is great for companies like Bosch, Delphi, Borg Warner, Timken, SKF.....
So I could spend hours picking your list of internet BS apart but I have work to do, yes I am back to work. Not fully recovered but enough to do analytics for now.
Do some real research other than the google search.
jerry, if you bothered to (again) read the header before the list, it states that some products as well as lots of products made in China are for US consumption. US companies relocated there for the lax pollution standards and lower wages. Have you deliberately ignored that since the '80s and '90s?
Tons of automotive parts for US markets are made in China. Finding a few examples of an entire car being made there, for sale here, doesn't invalidate what the list states. And that's just the car market. Your both nit picking and off on one of your tangents again.
Name the two EVs imported here and the amount of the tariff assessed for reasons of anti dumping, and not just spout your "facts". And, keep in mind the two are connected (by you) so don't leave out the amount of tariff. Why is it you can't admit that US companies are operating out of China, making tons of products for US consumption, and have been for decades.
Turning a blind eye to this fact speaks volumes about your reluctance to admit that US companies sold out regular Americans for a buck.
By the way, I love your admonishments. They're so parochial.
Again jerry, just statements made without facts. I asked for a simple verifiable thing on your part and you punted. Predictable.
Here's some facts for you: GM is 50% owned by China and Ford is 32% owned by China. The Buick Envision is entirely made in China as well as the Cadillac CT6 hybrid plug-in. Throw in cars "made in Mexico" that China actually builds but sends there to bypass that 25 % regular tariff (not some 93% anti dumping tariff) that they've been doing since 2006 and Bob's your uncle.
American companies will build anywhere they want, thank you.
Perfect and you are wrong. Did not punt, not going to waste anymore time with you.
Google is your friend eh.
You are wrong as always you think you are having the last word.
So long Mr Wrong.
BTW you can look up tariffs with the FED and you sited 2 bearing companies and several tire companies that are subject to Anti Dumping Laws. Regardless of being American or Chinese owned. The two bearing companies neither of them Import to the US any goods THEY make in China.
BTW you can look up tariffs with the FED and you sited 2 bearing companies and several tire companies that are subject to Anti Dumping Laws.
Are you confusing me with someone else? Is it the meds? I linked an article with a list of US companies who make products in CHINA. I didn't cite any particular Chinese companies making bearings or tires at all. None of the companies listed on your link are mentioned on the one I linked.
Are you saying you found a link that ties the Chinese with the American companies? Which American companies uses their parts and tires and sells them as their own?
Please, please, please name those companies and the amount of the anti dumping penalties they pay. I'd really like to know.
•Detroit—The United States District Court for the Eastern District of Michigan, Southern Division has approved the following announcement of a proposed class action settlement with the JTEKT, Nachi, NSK, NTN, and SKF defendants totaling $37.5 million, and the proposed distribution of the proceeds of the settlement.
•The lawsuit claims that defendants conspired to suppress and eliminate competition for bearings by agreeing to raise, fix, maintain, and/or stabilize prices, rig bids, and/or allocate markets and customers for bearings sold to distributors in the United States, in violation of federal antitrust laws, according to the announcement.
•The settlement affects those distributors who purchased bearings in the United States from Jan. 1, 2000 through Dec. 31, 2014, directly from any of the following entities (or their subsidiaries or affiliates): JTEKT Corporation; JTEKT North America Corporation (formerly Koyo Corporation of U.S.A.); Koyo France SA; Koyo Deutschland GmbH; Nachi-Fujikoshi Corp.; Nachi America Inc.; Nachi Technology, Inc.; Nachi Europe GmbH; NSK Ltd.; NSK Americas, Inc.; NSK Europe Ltd.; NSK Corporation; NTN Corporation; NTN USA Corporation; NTN Wälzlager GmbH; NTN-SNR Roulements; Schaeffler Group USA Inc.; Schaeffler Technologies AG & Co. KG (formerly Schaeffler Technologies GmbH & Co. KG); FAG Kugelfischer GmbH; AB SKF; SKF GmbH; and SKF USA Inc.
Yes jerry....not related, but related. Bravo! You’ve found some Chinese companies in partnership with American, French, German and Japanese businesses that have sold to American distributors (in America) and none of them are on the list I linked to, and you said (or thought) they were.
None. Of. Them.
That, and it has nothing to do with the point I was making that there are American companies making stuff in China for American consumption. A point which you argued against. Then, you came up (or is it went off on) with anti dumping tariffs. Way off in the weeds, jerry.
I’m over here talking about apples and you’re over there hating on what I say and going with oranges for your argument. Not related, but related? In your mind, maybe, but not to anyone who’s been following this.
So it looks like the only time you’ve wasted is your own in your haste to bring me down, just out of spite and what you like to say, disdain. You end up like this all the time: going to great and misguided lengths to harm, thinking you got one over on me, and then, the way you celebrate. So sad.
I think at the end of the day you have to be happy. Regardless of what anyone says. BUT, here’s my opinion:
Unless you are spending $6/7K minimum possibly more you are going to be receiving a mass produced speaker. Regardless of what country it’s made in. China just happens to have the most manufacturing in the world and usually at good rates. Your local dealer, Dynaudio, Distributor are all making profit here so it’s not like 100% is going to the manufacturing plant here…As others have stated plenty of extremely high quality products are made in China. The quality is overseen by the parent company. In many cases quality improves! The poster that mentioned Bob Carver product could have been a one off…hopefully.
However, completely avoiding Chinese parts in audiophile equipment is very very difficult. Accuphase, Gryphon, Nottingham come to mind. Maybe Lamm, D'Agostino and Boulder, I don't know.
But if we insist and are prepared to pay more things will change.
Complicated subject, yeah. Anyone ready to buy iPhone Pro Max for $4k or so ? It's already $1.5k.
Good sensible posts nonoise. Of course you are correct. There is an old adage, "Never argue with a fool. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience."
Just the fact that your asking this question you've answered it yourself.
You feel cheated. Trade them for the floor model. If they won't, you've Becker up your suspicions. It would be interesting to see if they use the MIC as floor/demo models.
If that is an issue, you should move away form DA all together. What happen if you need replacement parts in the future? Are they coming from China or Denmark?
The quality has nothing to do with the COO. It has to do with the specifications outlined by in this case Dynaudio and the quality control post production. The Chinese are quite capable of producing world class quality products in 2022.
I think the new dynaudio’s sound like crap not because the manufacturing but because bad engineering. Cheap wooden box sound. No matters who builds them.
I say this because i owned for two years the old contour 3.3 from 2001 and then the contour 60 from 2018. The contour 3.3 sound fantastic instead the contour 60 are simply awful in every aspect.
It has probably to do with the new management philosophy more as with the manufacturing.
By the way Chinese manufacturing is today often way better as EU manufacturing.
Hello everyone, its been a crazy few weeks and I think I owe everyone who contributed to this thread an update.
Its been quite a journey since my first dynaudio Audience 52 pair.(almost 20 yrs ago). I wont go into the list of manufacturers that have been part of my rig (too many). A few months ago I wandered into a local audio showroom in PA. Listened to a bunch of speaker purchased and exchanged a few as well because I was just not satisfied with the sound specifically integration with my dual subs.The dealer was the very best to accommodate my demands. Mind you I was only listening to bookshelves. I then started to look into floorstanders that went deep low 30hz to high 20hz min. But I also wanted something with high WAF.
Long story short I auditioned some Sonus Fabers, Dynaudio contours, JBL, Dali, and Focals at various other dealers that fit my budget. Out of all ,the Dynaudio evoke 50 satisfied me most with it's deep bass and rolled off highs. If a speaker can play Heavy Fuel at say 80db-85db without sounding harsh to me then they made my short list. I love snare as well. AnywaysI exchanged my Dynaudio SP40(one of the many soeakers I exchanged) and ordered the Evoke 50.
When they did arrive the carton read Made in China. Now since I really like the pair I heard in the showroom that was Made in Denmark I was not too happy with the situation and hence began this thread to get fellow members input. Your opinions led me to talk to the dealer again. To my surprise the dealer was more than happy to help out. In their defence he did say at the time of purchase that they have been getting Made in China Evoke models of late. But seeing that the floor model was Made in Denmark (MID) I assumed (wrongly) that the Evoke 50 were still being made in Denmark.
When I raised my concern the dealer checked his warehouses and could not locate a MID version. He had the MIC versions. He then proceeded to call the Dynaudio rep located in IL. After about 30min later he got a call back and the Dynaudio rep said they had only 1 pair that was MID in gloss white. I decided to take that and 2 weeks later it was at my doorstep.
The reason for me going with MID model is 2 fold:
I liked the floor model sound and I wanted the exact same sound signture. Although lets say that MIC could even sound better I did not want to risk it. I previously had the Emit 30 from the same dealer which was MIC and although it sounded nice with regular records but when I tested it with 30 hz warble tone you could immediately tell that the woofers in both speakers would distort even at 5mm excursion. This leads me to believe that it was a qc speakers since both speakers exhibit the same issue. It was like the center coil was not centered right ,so any excursion would cause it to rub against the center pole core. Just horrible. That put a rear sour taste in my mouth.
Next reason, I was told that this was probably the last available pair in the model range that was MID within the US. Now Ive seem other reviewers on youtube and they also had the MIC version.Also I expect depreciation to be much lesser than the MIC models. I am pretty sure thats the case because about 10 yrs ago I sold my MID Dynaudio Audience 52 for more than I paid for. So there you go. Thank you everyone for your inputs and Happy listening
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