Deals Gone Bad

Ebay is getting like everyone else, they handle claims when they feel like it......I have been waiting for a item from South Africa for 1 month today, DHL shipping has completely dropped the ball, ebay won't give me my 3000.00 back and like I say American business is no longer a success anymore, the crooks , scam artists and bad people are winning big time and if I was younger I would look into that as a great way to make money, nobody pays any penalties and the returns are great........And its really easy.......If I was in my 20's I would do it......ITS THE AMERICAN WAY...........

Well.Ive had good deals,and bad ones with Ebay,Amazon  and Audiogon. BUYER BEWARE. Especially when buying used equipment...Your trusting the guy or store that the stuff is good.These stores are taking in used equipment, they turn it on and it plays ,case closed ,it works .....as should as you use it a while ,problems start.Yeah that's why they got rid of it to YOU....

Ronrags I was almost scammed by someone exactly meeting your description. I was very close to sending the money but saw he used pics from a 5 year old Usaudiomart sale.  Just saw that his account was suspended by Audiogon. If a deal is too good it probably is a scammer.
 

I guess I have been lucky.  I have made several large purchases both here and on US Audiomart, the biggest being about $7K.  I have never had a problem over the years, although I. Think that scamming seems to have become a lot more prevalent in the past few years.  I always use PayPal or some other buyer protection, and I always make sure that it is shipped with full insurance.  The couple of times that something arrived damaged (both subwoofers, ironically) I was refunded through PayPal (although the seller refused to take responsibility for it arriving undamaged) and in the other, the subwoofer arrived at the buyer’s working fine but a nick in a corner, and I gave the buyer all of the proceeds of the Fed-X insurance, so the sub ended up costing him about $50 and he was happy.  In my most recent purchase, for $7K, the seller would only take PayPal F&F, because of the change in IRS tax regs on such sales.  I was nervous and skeptical, but he had lots of positive feedback, quickly responded to emails, gave me a legitimate address, and we spoke on the phone.  I took the chance and everything was perfectly smooth,  The moral of the story is that due diligence it’s important nowadays.  Does the seller have positive feedback?  Does he quickly respond to emails?  Does he have a traceable telephone number?  Did he give you a legitimate address?  Does the address match up to PayPal’s shipping address? On the phone or by FaceTime, does he sound legitimate or is there something that triggers your “spidey sense?”  This vetting isn’t foolproof for a real professional scammer, but is very reliable.  For even larger purchases, I would investigate an escrow service rather than PayPay F&F.  I recently saw a MSB Reference DAC for $25K (retail, over $50K) that I contemplated, but being sold out of Dubai.  That would be a classic escrow company purchase.  And if that was unacceptable, “if its too good to be true, it usually is!”

I second oddiofyl on TMR - Joshua and team are really great.

Never gotten fully burned (worst example is that I bought a Technics tonearm on EBay and the tonearm lift didn't work).  I did have one example where a guy in Europe was listing a pair of Amati Homages at $12k that I thought seriously about buying. Had limited but all positive feedback, but he required a wire transfer. I was a little concerned, so asked for home address and phone number.  Did a google search on the address and it was basically a parking lot in an industrial area.  That was a big red flag and I ceased contact.  About a month later another Audiogoner bought the speakers, sent the wire, and the seller disappeared (the buyer posted about it).  Dodged one there.

In short, trust your instincts and don't be embarrassed about asking for an much info as you need to make yourself comfortable with the deal

I refuse to buy without a FaceTime conversation with the seller. It's amazing how well this works as a BS/Scam filter. 

It’s a shame that your federal government has forced everyone away from PayPal. Then again, PayPal is complicit in this theft. 

I've probably done well into the hundreds of audio transactions over ebay, audiogon, USAudioMart and individual dealers  over many years. Quite a few have been international, only one issue and that was from seller in my home state. My greatest problem has been shipping cross borders with US Postal Service, customs big issue here, I avoid them if at all possible, shippers acting as brokers better proposition. As for buying and selling I look for long term, large number of feedback, also conversation via messaging.  Perhaps I've been lucky?

Very little EBay for me. I only buy from trusted places like Ali Express. 😝. No actually I haven’t bought from EBay in a decade and never from Ali Express.

I'm with Kennymac

I no longer bother with Ebay

Anything I posted immediately was answered by a scammer.

USA audio art has been solid for me

I usually try to make major purchases with in driving distance.

I also research the feedback of the other party as well as doing a Google, Facebook search of the person and address and have a phone conversation.

I can't imagine that so many Agoners would trust these junk on-line "marketplaces".

With such large amounts of money.

Overseas.

WITHOUT AUDITIONING before purchase?

I really don't get it.

TMR is a good place for gear purchased sight unseen.  They do a good job with photos and are very conservative on condition.  If they say it looks new, it probably does.   Fair prices for the most part and their policies are great too.  I traded a preamp toward a streamer and bought an integrated Amp from them.  Both were new and were great deals too good to pass up. 

If you use PayPal and ebay you will be covered by their guarantee and I have had to use it a couple of times on sellers with good accounts that got hacked and scammers took over their accounts. Fortunately, I was smart enough to catch on and notified eBay about it in advance. It's sped up the refund process. One trick I find is to ask for a phone call on eBay if you follow their help section. You usually can get them to call you within a couple of minutes and on the other end I have run into only English speaking customer service agents that have been very helpful. Never buy with anybody who doesn't have any feedback. Don't buy from people that have less than perfect feedback. If the images don't match up too well or look too professional has lots of questions. They'll usually slip up. If it's a buy it now price that is really low. You have to question yourself on why someone would put it at low of a price. Do the same. Ask a lot of questions before you buy it. Don't get fomo. Last week I lost out on a great deal because I was doing my due diligence and maybe went a little bit too far and actually asked for a video of it and asked quite a few bit of questions. During my investigation someone else bought it. I was okay with that because I have my process and I follow it and it keeps me safe. Be careful not to buy stuff outside of eBay. From sellers who want to do an off eBay transaction. Unless you're the one asking. Just make sure to always do goods and services so that you are protected. Also, the biggest one is do not deal with anyone outside of the United States. Don't buy or sell to anyone outside of the USA. Canada is like the 53rd State so it's okay. 

When it comes from buying from forums, you got to make sure that that guy has decent feedback, score or make sure it's goods and services only. Buying off of you is not so bad because PayPal will have your back. Purchasing from someone else. Never do the friends and family thing no matter how good the person's feedback is. Or even if you know the person. What happens if you get a porch pirate or there's a train derailment and your package gets squished to hell. I actually had this happen. FedEx had my package on a train and there was a derailment and my package got turned into a pancake. It was covered by PayPal. Like somebody mentioned, getting money from FedEx is like trying to get money from the IRS. It is near next to impossible. You have to buy that insurance for sure and even then it's almost impossible to get it from them. The more safeguards you take the better of course, but always pay with PayPal. Got goods and services. 

I And I like phone numbers and I like confirming information via text as a phone number. Can really track down a lot of people these days for information that you need to. 

I have a little bit of a long story here, but I had to call a guy's mama. 

I bought a product off of a Reddit forum for audio and video gear. The guy didn't have great feedback but I was the one buying from him. So I paid and it was PayPal goods and services. However, the guide disappeared and never shipped out my package. Towards the end of the week I got pissed off and I took the information from PayPal and track down the account using the email and it's churned out. He used his mama 's Paypal account. She had her name more or less on the email and I tracked it down doing search and it was a small City and so I searched for her name and got her address. Well it also gave me the other names of the people that lived at that address and the other person was the person who sold me the headphones. So I assumed that was his mama and I emailed her and she ended up calling me right away.. turns out her son likes to do this and she totally threw him under the bus. He was living with his dad now though and not under her roof. She gave me the number of his cell phone and the dad's cell phone. Well I called the kid, left a message and never got a return phone call. Next day I said watch this, I called the Papa and left a message. He called me back within 5 minutes saying his kid would never do something like that and the product was worth more and he gave it to his son as a gift for his birthday and I was a liar. He said his son was right there and he was going to verify all of this and how dare I accuse them. The son was there and said Dad let's call this guy back in a couple of minutes. I got to tell you something. Well the kid kind of made up a story in the meantime and dad called back and apologized for being difficult and said that his son would return the money right away. And sorry for the problem. The kid knew he was caught. Told Dad whatever he needed to in order not to get grounded or kicked out of the house. I thought that he learned his lesson that his mom read it about and his dad was ready too. Kill somebody just because he wanted a couple of extra bucks. He's lucky his dad didn't ring his neck cuz he sounded like one of those type of dads. So that was a fun story about a scammer. I got my money but it doesn't always work out that way. I have done close to 700 transactions but I've had probably about 10 times where I ran into bad situations. It's a law of averages. It's just like driving on a busy highway. Eventually you're going to get into a fender bender at some point. If you're on the road long enough somebody's going to give you a little bump. Hopefully the bump's not too bad and you're not too traumatized by it. Good luck to everyone and don't let the scammers win and scare you away. Just be more careful and do your due diligence and don't get too excited over cheap prices. Stay safe everyone.

Deal with Audiogon members or u.s audiomart  with only a very good feedback record  .

Personally, I would never buy anything out of country (I live in Canada) or from sites like Ebay. I trust Canuck Audio Mart or Marketplace. That's it.

Everything is either cash or EMT (no PayPal) and the buyer has to have a good transaction history.

As a result, I have never had a single problem and that is how I like it.

[[.Both of these were out of the country]]

Maybe time to reconsider foreign transactions??

Research the person you are buying from and make sure they are who they say they are and they have had a presence for years instead of someone who just pops up to sell something. I find pictures of them (if at all possible) and their current address and how long they have been there. From the information i find out, I will ask them a friendly question that I already know the answer to make sure they don't lie. If I can't do that I don't deal with them and like others have said, i don't deal with anyone out of the country. Remember a fool and his money soon part.

+2 secretguy & cleeds

I will NEVER use PayPal Friends & Family, no matter how inexpensive the item.

I hope this thread informs everyone at AG about the shady-side of internet sales.

captaindidactic

Sorry, but this means I will avoid the items you sell using F&F:  To me, it is as if your F&F listings do not exist... 

"What a pain! " - not for the honest.  If sellers want to avoid paying their sales taxes, it follows that they should also avoid what those taxes buy  (roads, police, firemen, air traffic controllers, teachers, schools, etc. and the list goes on...)

I will not buy sight unseen as I have no idea what I’m getting and there are many scammers out there. I will not buy anything that has to be shipped as I have not yet found a reliable shipper, none of them care and none of them are careful. I do travel a lot and I will go several hours out of my way to pick up something that O want. To date I have not been burned in any way, items all worked well, were in good shape and the sellers were fine people. It’s working well and I won’t change, if it isn't broke why fix it?

Big purchase I only go to TMRaudio. I have 2 purchases from Skifi cables and Red rose speakers all went well.20 yrs ago I bought my diapason adamantes from a guy in Hongkong.All good. Since then I never dealt overseas. Be extra careful nowadays so many scams going on .

……ummmmm maybe stay away from international sales might be an option .Just a thought .

secretguy

I absolutely will NOT deal with anyone who demands F&F.

Same here. And no exceptions.

On another audio website, I inquired from the site's official vacuum tube vendor about the purchase of some tubes. When I asked for payment info, he requested PP F&F. I declined.

The vendor then contacted the site's administrator and accused me of backing out of a deal. He also claimed harm because he'd already special ordered the tubes for me. That only confirmed my suspicions about the guy. (These were common tubes: 6H30 and 6550.)

Any vendor that seeks PP F&F can't be trusted, imo.

I absolutely will NOT deal with anyone who demands F&F.

Ebay support has gotten more convoluted and taking to a real person when there's a problem is nearly impossible. Caveat emptor indeed. 

I was recently scammed for $1500 after posting a want ad on usaudiomart. The individual pretended to be someone else with great feedback on head-fi and was listed as a member here on audiogon. Unfortunately, like most sellers now, the individual wanted to be paid PP friends and family to avoid claiming the sale to the IRS. It’s also unfortunate that I can no longer trust anyone. Lesson learned!
 

BTW- the individual was removed as a member on audiogon. He probably scammed others and someone had him removed. 

EBay was fun two decades ago, when I bought a nice Stellarvue Apo telescope as well as some used audio gear for a second system.

 I find it to be a mixed bag now, sometimes a cesspool. With the exception of some brick and mortar stores using it as an outlet, audio gear is typically exorbitantly priced and often shady. Want to pay double for tired C-J gear than on Audiomart or Audiogon? I’ve been cheated, for example, from a fake New Balance outlet store that gave an explanation for why my shoes were months late by saying “they were on the boat from China” for US-made shoes. I was reimbursed for this fraud from my credit card. But I used to order New Balance 990’s from a legitimate NB outlet on E-Bay, not anymore. There is no longer oversight of the shady stuff it seems.

I haven’t bought or sold anything used since before the pandemic.  Between the scammers and the shipping companies damaging stuff it took any fun away.  I live in Chicago so there is a decent population density for in person deals, and I’ve probably taken less value on a few pieces than I may have gotten elsewhere on line, but decided it isn’t worth the hassle 

Sorry to hear this Will. I am happy with my purchase of the SET 45 amp from you some years back. Excellent work!

I recently purchased a pair of Yamaha HS80M Studio Monitors (according to the listing title and item description) from Reverb.com using their app for iPhone. If I had been on a computer, I would have seen that the seller's images were of Yamaha HS50M, the 5" version. The HS80M is an 8" driver. The seller used a wide angle camera lens to make them look bigger.

Fortunately, I filed a claim with Reverb’s buyer protection before the site’s 7-day (oh well, too bad for you) window had passed and thoroughly documented everything. I got a refund for the full purchase price plus a pair of 5" studio monitors that I guess will make great garage workshop speakers.

Done a little via eBay, only one glitch easily cured with a call.

Look for 'time on', # of sales, relative +/- if there's comments....

Doesn't ever hurt to CYA...👍😎

I've been fortunate.  Haven't had any audio purchases go bad.  

I bought a used conrad-johnson Premier 17LS2 on ebay.  It developed an issue in one channel. I worked with the seller trying different tubes etc and it didn't go away. They let me return it after having it several weeks.  

I've bought Mullard tubes from the UK.  Got a few noisy tubes and the seller refunded my money. 

I’ve only been caught in a scam through HiFi Shark. Lost $2kUSD. Lesson learned. I’ve bought and sold here and on eBay before it became too expensive. Past reviews are an important guide, and separating fictional from real reviews is important. It’s a Wild West. Yet I’ve bought safely from Europe, (UK, Estonia), USA, Japan, among others and shipped to/from the Middle East. FedEx is a scam. Offer insurance. Refuse claims immediately.

Ebay has always been shaky.  Audiogon and US Audiomart has never failed me.  

I'm in Australia and have bought and sold to and from the USA, UK and even Latvia without any major problem. The only minor issue was with Fedex who delayed giving me Australian Customs clearance information for 3 weeks and were uncontactable during that period. All was well in the end and no issue with the US seller who was extra helpful.

Interesting situation recently. Followed a listing for a tube amp I was interested in because I have the match and have been thinking about dual mono setup. No seller feedback though so I was cautious. Asked a few questions and seller responded and seemed knowledgeable. Because seller was in a city nearby and I travel there frequently I offered to come to him for a trial and told him I would purchase if satisfied. Gave him my name and location so he could google me. Never heard back and item was still listed several weeks later. Maybe demo process is not in vogue but I’ve done it for 25 years. Otherwise, I wouldn’t purchase without multiple seller feedback.

What were the sellers' customer satisfaction scores?

+1, czarivey.  I've cut way, way back on such purchases & upgrades but back when I was more active I practically never dealt w/ eBay for audio and for aGon stuff I focused on items for sale where I could pick up in person. I was just paranoid - but that also more controlled those purchases & I also met a few really outstanding folks (RIP, Merle).  Obviously that meant no distant/foreign deals but to one of us that approach was worth it. 

eBay -- eNay.

I'm right now filing a clam with Pay-Pal on one deal, that will take two months to settle, then a bad e-bay deal , which I can't file untel the 14th of Aug, and a damage claim with Fed-ex for 1600.00 which they will never pay..............Its about time to call internet business to a close, more crooks than honest people and nobody does anything about it..............The crooks are winning.....( for a total of 7600.00 )............Will

My recent overseas purchase from eBay nearly went south. Fortunately, seller delivered within a week as soon as I opened the dispute with eBay. Beyond eBay and PayPal protection, I use a credit card that offers outstanding customer service in handling disputes.

Sorry to hear that. I for one don’t buy from out of my home country (the US), just because of the added friction an international transaction has if something goes south . . . and sad to say, eventually everyone has a deal go south.