Two subs are always better than one. They extend the soundstage. If you are looking for realistic sound then the subs will be turned now to a whisper... if they are not then the sound field will become compromised and broken up by the extended bass interfering. It really depends on what you are looking for... if those hip hop cars where you can feel them go by the bass vibrating your car... then go big. If you're looking for accurate sound then smaller. |
IMO, too much money is spent on main speakers that try to accomplish too much with respect to quality and quantity of bass. Too often the result is boomy, ill-defined bass unless you spend a lot of money to get it right. Your 804s are well-suited to provide enjoyable, balanced sound from around 40Hz up. Take the win. Adding subs will enhance your experience and improve on what you hear at the higher frequencies. IME, two subs are way better than one and even more can be better yet. Google "Swarm Subwoofer System" and "AudioKinesis" to read about the potential benefits of using an array of subs. Not everyone can either afford an array of subs or get away with having 3 or 4 subs in their room. However, if you can swing two subs I suspect you would be happier with the result compared to only using one. I will let others weigh in on which brands/models of subs to consider. My Aerial SW-12 subs are plenty impactful, musical, and adjustable for me so I never needed to try others. I have had good luck with them in the front of the room, set up for stereo, using line-level connections, and dialed in with a light touch. I have tried a passive high-pass filter to relieve the amplifiers of the chore of driving the lowest bass, and to relieve my main speakers from having to reproduce the lowest bass. In my case it was a wash and not a noticable improvement but for others using a high pass filter has been beneficial. Good luck. |
+1 on two subs, so size might be predicated on space available and cost. That being said, ideally I would take two 12" subs over two 10" subs. I am a REL fan, based on experience, sound and reliability. There are many reports here of JL reliability issues. I have heard the B/W subs and would choose REL over them. I also replace two Paradigm subs with REL and again they sounded much better. I am sure a swarm sounds great but even for my excessiveness not practical. IMHO, get the best REL subs you can afford. You may hear that REL subs do not have some of the sophistication in adjustment (variable phase and remote control), but I have absolutely no issues with dialing them in. They add air pressure, bass presence and depth, and augment the soundstage if placed and adjusted properly. Matching brands is not the leading concern either. |
Definitely at least two subs, and three or four is even better if you can swing it. I’d go for 15” subs but no smaller than 12” because they’ll go lower and work more effortlessly with lower distortion than smaller subs. I think Rhytmik subs offer the best performance/$ although they don’t as yet offer software to help dial them in, which is not necessary but can be very helpful. Arendal subs have also gotten good reviews and seem to offer high value, and I’d also consider Paradigm and Perlisten. B&W is overpriced relative to alternatives IMO, and JL Audio has had significant reliability issues that may be more prevalent in their lower-level subs but worth checking before going that route. I want my subs to hit an honest 20Hz because there’s important information down there that improves sense of space/soundstage, and to get there with REL you gotta spend big bucks relative to these other excellent alternatives. If it’s me I’d go with a Swarm from Audiokinesis, but if that’s not possible I’d go with a pair of 15” Rythmiks and take the thousands you’ll save and upgrade other equipment or go on a nice vacation. Hope this helps, and best of luck. |
Welcome to the dark side. The answer to your question is, it depends on what your goals are, what you listen to and how loud you listen. If you prefer aggressive bass driven music, like blues, rock, EDM, and even modern country, specially at higher volume levels, bigger will be better. Be warned. A good subwoofer system will expose room node issues, which is why more is better than less, up to four. I would read this before doing anything. A great subwoofer system can be immensely rewarding, they can also be immensely frustrating. I have been using subs for decades and much to my chagrin, I’m still learning. |
This may be true, but for me it is subordinate to them helping with room modes. Two is good, three is great, four is...marginally better. Helpful: |
Swarm, DBA, Audio Kinesis, and James Romeyn… https://jamesromeyn.com/speakers/subwoofers/general-info-subwoofers/ I made the change about 4 years ago with help from JR Bosclaire (Wally Tools). And when I say help, I mean he did all the work and I held the mic all over the room. The thing that blows me away to this day, aside from the dynamic sonic improvement, is how little it cost me relative to my system and to mainstream audio products. I totally get the feeling that four subs is a lot. I debated that as well. I also felt my family would lose their shi$ if I added more “boxes” to our family room (we have an open floor plan). An advantage of a DBA is the subs are asymmetrically placed around the room and the size of Jame’s implementation are not really that big (especially compared to what’s out there commercially). There was definitely resistance at first, but I got lucky. My wife and kids recognized this hobby is a passion of mine and after a while we all sort of just forgot about them. Just remember everything takes time. Anyhow that’s a little more context for you to think about. So, one is better than none. Two is better than one. And so on… I hope you will let us know what you decide and report back. |
+1 for multiple subs. If your mains go very low, like your 804 D3's, you're stuck with trying to balance two issues: imaging (driven by speaker placement) and room modes (dictated by speaker placement). You would be incredibly lucky if your solution to these two problems happened at the exact same speaker placement! By separating the two, you get to put your mains in the ideal place for imaging, but get to move the low frequency sources (the subs) wherever is ideal to minimize problems with room modes. Conquering modes is where "the more, the better" mantra with subs comes in. To really get this separation, you need to high-pass the main speakers, and low-pass the subs, so the sound level and phase are (mostly) matched. Using an active crossover and/or DSP are ways to achieve this. |
A. Whether you decide on one subwoofer or three its imperative they be positioned within your rooms standing wave bass modes. This is a relatively simple way to locate and mark your rooms modes and is only done once. https://www.audioholics.com/home-theater-connection/crawling-for-bass-subwoofer-placement Using any other locations and you'll find yourself as dissatisfied as all those you read about griping, struggling or who've given up. DSP is not a panacea for out of position subwoofers. B. Using a distributed subwoofer array or Swarm essentially eliminates the rooms modes and frees you from preforming the crawl. It also provides a unique and extremely encompassing low frequency presentation. C. The last option is to use a -6dB sub-bass speaker (some also call themselves subwoofers). Regardless of how many are used or how large they are their frequency response begins a steep roll of in the mid 30Hz region. Since they simply do not excite the rooms standing waves they can be located most anywhere, at the expense of losing the true subtle musicality that a properly positioned and adjusted -3dB subwoofers provides.
Personal observations: More often than not speaker manufactures tend to design afterthought or needlessly over built premium priced subwoofers. They offer uselessly dated setup diagrams and/or complicated, or dealer adjustable third party signal processing. High or speaker level connectivity was originally developed for customers whose receivers were without preamp outputs. If it were actually better everybody from Pro audio, sound reinforcement, and the majority of home subwoofer using it. Running the source signal through at least two more sets of inputs and outputs? If the company provides you a list of speakers that their products are "matched" to, your in way over your head. Put simply, one adjustes subwoofers to any speakers not matching a particular speaker. My current two subs have taken the place of four. It took this idiot less than an hour to crawl, position and run the Auto EQ which is 95% of the setup. The other 5% is making manual personal taste adjustments. The newer 12" sounds every bit as potent as the 18" it replaced. Unfortunately the company was sold in 2019 so I'm reluctant to make a recommendation. Pull off your pants and jump in, you'll never go back. |
I say more the merrier. They add depth to my system. I started with one KEF R400B, Each sub has 2x10" speakers and a 200 watt internal amp. That was good, so I added a second of the same. I cross over at 40 hz. They are very adjustable, and you really don't know they're on, until you turn them off. My main speakers are Sonus Faber Cremona Ms. I'm contemplating adding a third. |
1st you have to decide your on your priorities… Do you want Music Bass or Movie Bass ??? The Experience is totally different with each… So what is your main listening going to be ?
I went from (1) SVS Front Firing 12”er to (2) REL 8” Down Firing T-5X’s. The SVS was ok for movies but for music it just didn’t cut it. Was it only because I had one ? I couldn’t tell ya but the 2 RELS are much more musical and dialed in so easily. I found being they had smaller drivers the response was much faster and worked better in my smaller room of 12’ x 12’. Being a smaller driver they have a lot less air to move. I have them dialed in at 45.25hz and volume level as one noted before at “ A Whisper” and couldn’t be happier. No Localization !!!! The secret to a sub’s successful integration into your set up is to not know you’ve got subs, but would seriously miss them if they weren’t there. Wanna drive yourself nuts? .. Nothing worse than hearing bass coming from a specific location in your listening room and having multiple subs certainly balances things more evenly.
Being my PreAmp has HT Bypass I do have the RELs attached to my DENON 3700 AVR as well through the AVR’s LFE output to the REL’s “SEPARATE” LFE input.
NOTE: REL’s allow you to have High QUALITY inputs from BOTH (1) directly from your Audio System’s Amps through the speaker outs sharing the output feed that goes to you speakers and (2) also has SEPERATE LFE inputs for an LFE signal from an AVR with the ability to Automatically switch incoming signals according to the input signal being feed to it.
The bass response for movies is great but music is my key objective and I couldn’t be happier than I am with the (2) RELs |
Had two JL audio Fathom V2 subs that cost me $10,000 USD. I did not heed advice on here to avoid at all costs. One was broken on arrival and the other sounded terrible despite professional integration with REW, miniDSP etc. Martin Logan’s at 1/3 the price have been flawless. Like others said, friends don’t let friends buy JL. |
