New Speakers under consideration - but I’m afraid


I really like my speakers but I am considering an upgrade. I have B&W 801 S2 MkIII that I bought new in 1999 (re-coned with modded x-over). I’m afraid that what I get will not equal them and new may  just be different.

They are bi-amped with McIntosh up top and Krell on the bottom. Analog is Revox B77 and dig is Oppo 105D with Bryston DAC3.

I will also likely upgrade the DAC but this thread is about speakers.

I need a dynamic loudspeaker that is as good with chamber music as it is with acoustic jazz, rock and electronic music (everything but Country and Rap).

I haven’t heard anything yet but am considering Borrersen X3, Wilson Sasha and B&W 803 D4.

Should I be afraid or will these speakers all best a 25 yr old design?

ritter06
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My guess is OP was meaning "worried" but somehow ended up with "afraid".

@ritter06 , yes, worry is always on the back of mind, however much auditioning/research you have done. It took me 2.5 years and 2 AXPONA shows to finalize my current speakers. So, don't worry - and as others have suggested, try to listen to as many loudspeakers as you can, read up, reach out to folks (not reviewers) who own the speakers you might be leaning towards, etc and you should be good. Have fun during auditioning.

And the most important thing - even if you purchase the world's best speakers there will ALWAYS be people who would say, you should have gone with X rather than Y. Learn to ignore such comments and you should be happy with the new loudspeakers for another 25-30 years. Good luck.

Check the Dali Epikore line. New model is priced at $40K per pair. I have spent time with the $60K Epikore 11 and it is one of the most effortlessly natural sounding speakers I have heard. I am very familiar with B&W 802 D4, Focal Sopra, Utopia Scala EVO, Wilson Sasha DAW…all have their strengths, but the Epikore 11 is the whole package. The price is largely due to its huge size…the cabinet is much bigger than the others I named. The new model is reduced to 2 8” woofers from 4 per speaker.

I’ve been able to compare Joseph Audio speakers to B&W over the years and found the JA speakers to be superior in every way.  They disappear better, throw off a more expanded and believable 3D soundstage, and they provide all the detail of the B&Ws but just do it in a more “natural” way is best I can describe it.  This is to say if you can demo JA speakers I think it would be very worthwhile.  For reference I compared the JA RM25si to the 803N back in the day and more recently the original Pulsar to the 805 D3.  Best of luck.  

I think you can definitely improve on your old B&Ws. But let's appreciate that they gave you decades worth of enjoyment! Best bet is to find a good semi-local dealer and see if you can listen to some options for yourself. Then see if you can try the ones you like best in your own home for a while. 

Volti Rival, these are speakers done right 18k or less, not sure

DeVore O96, Fleetwood, made in new york $15000

Joseph Audio, Perlisen 

Klipsch

Sonus Faber, these are very good with Mac

I have looked around in Chicago and several of these as well as other good brands. I have not heard all the above so some are opinions of others.

Yes I understand your concerns which are all very valid, but changing speakers is always a challenge and more so if a home demonstration is not possible.

But, nothing venture nothing gain.

Audio shows have their limitations in assessing different speakers for all sorts of well known reasons. Finding ones that have the right synergy with your existing system is also a key consideration.

I am on my third pair of YG speakers, namely Hailey Reference 2.2 , which I consider to be outstanding but well above your price range. A used pair of Carmels could be an option if you like their sound.

I was attracted to YG by a review of the Carmel 1s a long time ago  and I paid my first visit to Munich specifically to hear them. The room YG had for that show was excellent and their sound confirmed what I had read.

In my experience audio components all have  distinct characteristics  to their sound and all my three pairs of YGs have reproduced and brought out their differences and nuances because of their inherent and first class neutrality.

Going to one of the shows mentioned should give you an opportunity to assess different options and find some that appeal to you. Careful reading of review, ie reading between the lines, can often provide the additional insights to supplement your show listening experiences.

In my experience it is a journey worth making as long as you do your homework and take your time. It is one that can bring significant rewards

If I were in your shoes, I would be looking at pre-owned (5-10 years old). You can still make a big jump with technology and get a great used speaker in the $15-$25k range that once retailed for $40-$50k. Magico, Focal, Rockport, YG, etc. Take your time, read the forums and reviews.

+1  for Rockports. I had the (daughter won't let me sell them) B and W 801 Matrix anniversary model powered by a Krell KSA 150 for 30 years. I then moved to  Wilson Sasha 2s, but could never get them to a sound I could live with. I now have Rockports and I love them. The sound is very balanced and musical. They also continue to resolve at greater and greater levels as I improve how they are fed. I am not motivated to replace them.

when recommendations become this specific, it gets confusing. It's "I have X, I love X, you should buy X" territory which is not a useful context the OP can rely on.  

But what do I know, I have never owned a 3K+ speaker, cancel me smiley

@grislybutter 

If one reads the specifics the OP is looking for, then "X" might be a good fit. Even if the person suggesting it owns "X".

Now suggesting "X" only because you own it and love it, is not helpful. If I say I want a speaker that will shine with a 4 watt tube amp, don't tell me your Wilson Audio Alexx is the one I should buy.

@ozzy62 there is a difference between suggesting what might be a good fit and the other one I criticized. But one can always argue both ways, that I am suggesting X because it's the best fit for OP, not because I love it or I am selling one right now.

I stay away from suggesting what I love for this exact reason, it's too biased.  There are enough objective criteria, I'd leave the subjective out of it. The OP clearly doesn't know 95 out of a 100 brands (like most of us), to me it's wild to start throwing brand names into the mix, when he has preferences. And I could go on and on...

Let me offer up another thought.  The fellow who designed many of the best technologies and speakers at B&W is Laurence Dickie.  After leaving B&W he continued to develop and improve upon many of the technologies he had pioneered at B&W.  He founded Vivid Audio with a partner and continued this upward trajection of speaker design.  The Vivid Audio line of speakers is, in a manner of speaking, what B&W could have become. You should experience what Vivid Audio has to offer. If you like your B&Ws I have a feeling you'll find the Vivid speakers exactly what you're looking for.

One consideration  I would add is resale. These could be my last set of speakers.

Or perhaps not. A more esoteric brand of speaker will be harder to shift. I'm inclined to stick with a better know brand. When I throw that into the mix it favors something like the 802 D4.

On resale there seem to be a ton of used Sashas and Wilsons in general - why is that- because they sell a lot of them, hence more for resale?

re: resale - these are very expensive speakers. I would imagine some of the buyers just have money and "no ears". So they get bored eventually and tried to move them out of their living room and switch back to the soundbar

I own the X-3's in White....Beautiful, musical and NEVER fatiguing....but very detailed and life like...If yo like the Live experience, they're hard to beat...I want to sell mine (mint) and move up the Borresen line. These people have Sound Down to an art!

imho, resale value is a terrible reason to buy anything.  buy it, love it, use it up.  

Absolutely.... your kids will sell it for peanuts when you die anyway!    Enjoy now.   It's like having a classic car you don't drive.   Why save it for the next guy?

@OP There are a lot of used Wilson speakers around because people upgrade to newer Wilsons.

On B&W's - there's no guarantee you will like the latest generation better - they are certainly not a speaker I would choose for chamber music.

Magico A5s are worth listening to - more evenly balanced that D4 B&Ws but somewhat similar in character.

Personally, I would prefer the Sasha DAW but, while the thread is not about digital, I would not compromise the budget for a digital front end upgrade because, especially with more modern speakers, you are really going to need it.

In fact, I would suggest looking at that before changing speakers at all.

My pick would be Joseph Audio Perl. Kharmas are also dynamic with a good authority. Dynaudio confidence 50 should be also very good. I would look YG or Rockport over Wilson or BW. Later brands looks beautiful but the sound never moved me. 

Its SO subjective but as a rule: Wilsons are holographic, B&Ws are rowdy and in your face, and I've never heard Borresons so I can't opine. 

One poster mentioned Maggies. I 100% agree. Get the 1.7s with a pair of REL 7 subs. It's transformational.  

A few days ago I took the opportunity to listen to a dSC > Burmester (hybrid) > Magico S system, and it was exceptionally good.  Musical, and not fatiguing - among the very best digital SQ I have ever heard.  I tend to listen to vinyl, and this system sounded that good...

So I agree with the earlier comments stating that the Magico speakers are accurate and extremely revealing (compare to many other brands of speakers), so your font-end needs to be up to the task. 

You will hear it all, the good and the bad.  Isn't that what generations of audiophiles have been asking for from manufacturers?

Listen to the Yamaha NS-5000 from the world's largest producer of musical instruments. All three drivers are the same material so integration is seamless for your chamber music. 

Unless human ears are redesigned the only change the industry is making is less for more. Practicality must be balanced with imperative. We drove 250 miles to hear speakers. We paid to have them shipped that 250 miles.

If you need something smaller requiring less power try the TAD ME1.