Im going to regret my cable question

Completely depends on what specific improvements you’re looking for. 

+1 @soix 's comment.

Also, if you could provide some more info on your system.  Equipment sources, DAC's, interconnect cables, etc. as well of what your room is like?  Type of music you listen to.  It would help.  Your $1200 CND might be better spent somewhere else in your system.

The rest of the system is an upgraded Rega RP3, Graham Slee phono stage, Eversolo DMP-A6, NAD C-568 CD, AQ interconnects all around.

Music? Proper jazz (horn, drums, bass, keys) rock, classical. 
 

You didn’t answer the most important question — what specific improvements are you looking for from a new cable?

The sock-puppets are attacking.  Time for Chriso to weigh in?

I’m looking for any improvement that upgrading from an older AQ Type 4 to a Rocket 33 or 44 should give me. I have no specific improvement in mind but if we accept that “better” cables make a difference then that’s the improvement I’m looking for.

Not trying to be difficult but shouldn’t even that sort of upgrade improve things in general?

These will almost certainly be a significant improvement over your current cables and are a screaming bargain at only $350 (retail price was $1200). And if they don’t work out for some reason you can turn around and sell them likely at a profit. I’ve used these for 20 years and have held up facing several others that have passed through my system. Read the reviews — no brainer IMHO.

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/650194860-acoustic-zen-satori-shotgun-biwired-speaker-cables/images/5562650/

My recommendation would be to try OCC cables from Audio Sensibility. Their Testament Single wire speaker cable where I would start to see if you hear any improvements. 

As far as improvements you seek, a cable swap or any component change—can’t be judged in isolation because the improvements (or lack thereof) are entirely system-dependent.

What makes cables so fascinating is how they act as conduits. They can’t add anything to the signal, but they can allow more of what’s already there to come through. When a new speaker cable reveals previously hidden nuances, it’s not because the cable is “adding” detail—it’s because it’s enabling the system to better preserve the subtleties already in the recording.

The right cable might reveal microdynamics with greater texture or let the harmonic decay of notes linger more naturally, creating a more lifelike presentation, atleast that’s been my experience. 

Save yourself some money while improving sound quality.  I recommend getting them unterminated (bare wire) if your amps and speakers can accommodate bare wire.   https://partsconnexion.com/bb-cable-duelund-dual-dca12ga-2x12awg-0-18-meter-piece/?searchid=528622

Better cables generally bring higher resolution... but that can be a problem. They can conduct some previously unheard distortion or detail which ends up making them sound worse. Or they can tip the tonal balance a little... for better or worse. Different components put together act differently, and sometimes simply don’t sound great. This last one, just not working as you would expect is very rare. I’ve had a number of encounters that have been negative... then with much better components they sounded fantastic.

I recommend Cardas. They are designed to be more forgiving and natural at the lower cost levels and get much more detailed and revealing at the higher cost levels. So I would recommend for your Rotel spend about 10% the cost of the component. Get the corresponding interconnect. I think this is by far the safest bet.

I, unlike lots of folks here tend to stay main stream with wires, known brand that are well established and have known sound characteristics. They know what they are doing and produce consistent sound quality across the spectrum. There are hundreds of interconnect companies out there. Because anyone with a heat gun and a set of wire cutters can make them. There are so many novise high end enthusiasts that are easily impressed by greater detail or bass, but are unfamiliar with the nuances of midrange and other aspects of actual music reproduction, so sounds good to them, but really isn’t achieving what is possible. Then they sell lots by word of mouth, and may not stay in business. It is a lot of work to make cable comparisons... I’ve spent hundreds of ours. Most folks don’t have the time or interest to do it, to be sure they do have optimal ones. Buying Cardas is a great way to get excellent results. When you get real audiophile equipment, then think Transparent, Shunyata, and Nordost. I acknowledge Audio Quest has some good power cords now, but historically I'm not so sure. But where you are at... Cardas. Along the way, if you become familiar with these brands you will be able to shop the verified used market and know what you are getting and not get lost in nearly infinite choices.

@neversatisfied - Take a look at Zavfino cables.

Excellent performance at a reasonable cost

Regards, Steve

For this kind of money, which is a lot for cables, you should be able to return them for at least 80% refund.

Nordost may sound thin, Cardas may sound bloated in midrange and upper bass. I like the recommendation of Transparent. But again, I have no idea if it is what you will really like in your system. I think, Transparent sells direct.

My philosophy is to have cables at least one step ahead of active components.

If you decide to take a risk with used cables I would add Audience and probably Wywires Platinum speaker cables. I heard only Platinum interconnect in my system, though, and quite liked it.

Does anyone have experience with the AQ Rockets. The reason I’m looking at these is because I can get a good deal on 33’s or 44’s. 

The Rockets are fine. I upgraded from the 33 to the 44 in one of my systems at some point, not a huge difference but I did hear a little improvement. Later swapped around some Morrow SP-5, Straightwire Symphony, Kimber 8TC, which all felt roughly the same caliber even if some are more expensive. They all had different strengths with none taking a clear lead over the others.

I like Audience a lot, their better models are a little pricey but buying used can bring them down to a more realistic price level. I also really like Zonotone from Japan, you don't hear much about them around here though.

I just ordered speaker cables from a company I had never heard of before called Veritas Cables. I have their Aperta Special Edition speaker cables on the way now, hoping they remind me of Zonotone since they have some design similarities. 

My experience is you just need to try a bunch and see what you like best. That really is the best way to go.

Well, I took a look at the other site where there is a lot of equipment for sale.

There are two cables that might be worth considering. Both are about 15 years old, though. Both cost about 600 USD, I would try and take the price down by at least 15%. Both are 2.5 meters long.

1. Audience AU24.

2. Purist Audio Aqueous 20th Annivessary.

I have original Purist Audio Colossus fluid speaker cables. They are probably at least 30 years old, they sound excellent, and I have not upgraded speaker cables for 25 years ! I have upgraded RCA interconnects five or six times during 25 years.

Guessing you may want to warm up the sound a touch if so look for some used Auditorium 23 cables they should be within your budget and sound great.

I I had used both Rocket 88 and some custom made Mogami cables, the former being about 15 yers old.  I then tried a set of 4 ft Silversmith Audio Fidelium cables, and it was instant transformation of my system to higher level of sound quality.  So much so that my non-audiophile but music-loving wife commented on the improvement, and when my Shetland Sheepdog barks at the music, he barks either between the speakers or off to the sides of the speakers, not at the speakers themselves.  Eyes open or closed, the music emanates from the space around and behind the speakers.  I did not think speaker cables could make such a difference, but I now know that they can.  Depending on the length you need, they should be only slightly above your budget … but well worth it.  The owner, Jeffrey Smith, is very responsive and offers a 30-day trial period … but it took me only 30 seconds to decide the cables are “keepers,” and the sound improved even beyond that.  

Since you have a Graham Slee phono stage, have you considered demo’ing their Spatia speaker cables?   I did and ended up buying them.  They’re musical while still being transparent.  I feel like they made my system really sing.  The price is very reasonable and you try their free U.S. loaner program ( you only have to pay shipping to/from Kentucky, where their US loaner program is based).  Worth a try.  At worst you’ll be out $40 for shipping. 

I took @soix advice several years ago to buy some AZ Satori’s, these really opened my eyes to how much difference speaker wire could make. Highly recommended. 

@mike4597  I  had the same instant response to Silversmiths.  @neversatisfied , Wireworld cables are usually a safe bet, very neutral cables.

jond, your comment “guessing you want to warm up your sound…”

Im curious why you might mention that. I do find the Monitor Audio’s to be a touch forward, bright. Maybe that’s what I’m trying to alter.

I recommend Anti-Cables, they are amazing and affordable. I used to have Audience AU24, Wireworld Equinox, even Acoustic Zen and then I tried the Anti Cables and they blew the rest away, way more open transparent, crystal clear, details that I never heard suddenly are audible, and the bass is next level, I’m hearing deeper subterranean and more detailed bass than ever before. 

I think I have the Flex 4.2 now, but originally I had the cheaper ones when I tried them on a whim, I think they had a 30 day money back trial or something back then..

I still only use Acoustic Zen interconnects and power cords which are amazing, I did try a Anti Cables power cord and it was not very good, my Acoustic Zen Krakatoa is in another universe compared to the Anti Cables power cord which honestly is just bad IMO... But the speaker wires are easily the best bang for buck, I don’t even think of upgrading speaker wires anymore.

Maybe if I won the lottery I would try out Nordost Valhalla or some other crazy expensive cables, but for reasonable budgets you can’t beat Anti Cables IMO and they aren’t like wrestling with a garden hose, very thin and manageable, especially since they are pretty stiff you can bend them to whatever shape you need.

Hello @neversatisfied 

Great questions.

Speaking from the position as a retired AQ dealer:

Type 4 was a staple in the AQ lineup for years.  I still use Type4 in one of my systems.  I guess I didn’t want to say goodbye to an old friend, I suppose.

Type 4 is still consistent with AQ current design criteria, which is a good thing if you are/were happy with the sound characteristics of the cable.  Rocket 33 gives you a couple of added benefits.  A little more gauge overall, the the benefit of better materials.  Type 4 uses what AQ refers to as LGC (Long-grain copper) throughout.  Rocket 33 uses LGC on the larger conductors and the better PSC (Perfect surface copper) on the smaller conductors.  This material uses an extrusion process that provides a smoother exterior surface for the copper. The typical result of Type 4 vs Rocket 33 is better impact, control and resolution, although a portion of the musical bandwidth will use similar material to Type 4.  Rocket 44 takes a similar leap with more copper -- and better copper.  The PSC used on the top end of Rocket 33 is used for the larger conductors on Rocket 44, and the smaller conductors utilize PSC+ (Perfect surface +).  This process involves polishing the surface of the cables. With the Rocket 44 upgrade, we have heavier gauge AND better materials from top to bottom resulting in sonic improvement throughout.

Just an fyi that we are involved in speaker performance mods and use Rocket 44 in the vast majority of our projects. 

Also, if you are okay with a little DYI, and if you  can find AQ cables in bulk, you can save a lot of money if you are willing to order the terminations (and "pants") separately and do the terminations  yourself.

As with ANY improvement under consideration, it’s best to audition those components at home in your system before buying.  Rocket 44 has clear sonic advantages over Rocket 33 (and, Type 4), but I’d try them (or other considerations?) before buying.

Thank you waytoomuchstuff!

That is a bit of music to my ears, if you will.

I think I am leaning towards AQ as they are very available to me locally and I can get them at a nice discount. I’m just trying to decide on the 33’s or 44’s. For the small difference in price I’ll probably go with the 44’s.

I will try to audition them first. Cardas is also in the running but I don’t know if I can audition both side by side. The shop I’m dealing with might not carry Cardas.

Thanks for your input. (And everyone else of course)

+1 Cardas

I too will suggest Audio Sensibility. I just updated all my loom to their Statement line and Testament speaker cables. The speaker cables are not extremely flexible so not the best for tight spaces. But they were a big SQ improvement over the Belden wire I was using. Good luck

My view is that cables matter a little more than the network math would lead us to believe.  I also believe cables are far more expensive than they are worth.

For this reason, having tried cables which DO change the sound and imaging I've pretty much settled on Mogami and leave the rest for others to argue.  Affordable, high quality, transparent.  No loss of anything for the sake of imaging.

if you want a significant upgrade with exceptional performance at really fare market value price, try the THETA line of Shunyata cable products....i went with SigmaX for my speaker cables (@ $12500.00) but for a 30 foot run of XLR from my tube preamp to my dual monos, i went with THETA....WOW, what an upgrade from the $100 xlr i had previously....the Theta cost about $2300/US but WOW....what an upgrade......and I am just as sure Audio Quest and most any other company could provide you with a great cable at even a more reasonable price.....it's not snake oil...but you might need to own an oil well to buy Shunyata....wow...pricey stuff!!!

Link to review below.  If this guy knows what he's talking about, it sounds like the Rocket 33 might be the ticket if you feel that your speakers are on the bright side. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKMb2vibN4Q

Compared the cardas cables I made myself to the AQ 44's and some top end Audio Envy cables I had used for a couple years. The cardas was more neutral and "quieter" than either. You can definitely spend more, but for me, this was a great answer to my speaker cable chase. 

Asking for advice on which cable to purchase. Same old thing, a million recommendations, how does one choose from this chaos! My advice is audition cables from dealers, lending library at CableCompany, this what I did for many years, wanted to get overarching idea of what cables can and can't do. Some of my favorite brands Cardas, Audioquest, Purist Audio Design, also had good experience with certain Kimber, Zavfino are a new find, these are great value and simply very nice cables.

Yes. I was aware I was going to reopen that can of snake oil…I mean worms!

I would argue that we've had all these same discussions before when it comes to most audio gear. Unless it is a newly released model or brand (Laiv or Eversolo for example) there isn't much new under the sun. Doesn't mean it isn't nice to hear opinions about what is working for others in their systems.

For me, I won't touch a cable if I can't audition it at home and return if it doesn't work out. If your dealer doesn't offer this, find a new dealer. The small direct sales brands should do the same. I am comfortable with my recent Veritas Cables order because I have read about people having a smooth experience with the 30 day in home trial. Same with other brands like Triode Wire Labs. So it really is low risk.

There's a thousand cables out there to choose from that are in your price range, new or used.  You can't go wrong by upgrading up the Audioquest chain.  Audioquest makes fabulous cables all around.  Happy listening. 

I use Rocket 44 with banana plugs in my second system upstairs. McIntosh MSA5500 to KEF LS 50 Meta.  They sound great.  Crisp. Clear.  Good bass.  No harshness.  If you’re using AQ in the rest of your system the 44’s should do great. 

Have not heard the term "proper jazz" before. Did not detect irony, either.

Proper as in no electric organs, xylophone, etc. Think Miles Davis, Shorter, etc.

@neversatisfied wanting to warm sound up is fairly common here plus your Michi isn't known for being warm so just an educated guess.

Cerious Matrix - refurbished cables available direct from Cerious at great prices...I think still listed on Audiogon - and I did recently compare to new Type 4 and quite a difference...

Took some 4 awg welding wire put it together, I'll let you know how my 10 k cabels go.i put majic dust in to improve sound quality the cables cost 100 to make the magic dust cost 9900$. Obviously there is some humor in this but I had to give it the college try and experiment. I only buy used cables cuz there broken in. I did not cryo them cuz i run out of liquid nitrogen.there are sites that sell raw cable and you can put the ends on them.enjoy the experiments.the cable co does let you try cables.there may be others that have return policies.enjoy the music. I do belive in large awg wire  ofc occ I'm still expirementing.

AQ Type 4’s are pretty good cables, in their newest iteration, which includes a carbon-loaded polyethylene dielectric.  There is something harmonically pleasing to me about the solid-core copper in polyethylene.  My main issue with them was the relatively smaller aggregate wire gauge (i.e., about 15awg when connecting the 20 and 17 awg wires together for each pole). If you can bi-wire, you might try buying an additional pair for your MF/HF connections and then doubling up the cables you have now and run two full cables in shotgun fashion to your LF posts (about 13 awg to each pole) where wire gauge is more important than geometry.

The rockets are fine for the money, but likely much better to stretch for the great price/performance of Silversmith Audio Fidelium or Kirmuss Adrenaline whose reviews are extremely positive 

As you own AQ's, I think the person you should PM is John Rutan (Audioconnection). He sells them and knows which models will best suit your needs. Second to that, call Alisdair at AQ directly.

Bob

And how do I go about PMing John Rutan

Never mind. I found him. Cheers!

as @sns says: 

Asking for advice on which cable to purchase. Same old thing, a million recommendations, how does one choose from this chaos! My advice is audition cables from dealers, lending library at Cable Company, this what I did for many years, wanted to get overarching idea of what cables can and can’t do. 

Instead of trying to settle on one choice out of many suggestions, why don’t you use your ears? Order a few different options from The Cable Co., listen to them and see what appeals to you.This has been my go-to strategy for all cable upgrades for quite a while, now.  

I mentioned Cardas because I also wanted to warm up my system a bit. I have the Clear Sky x4 and they did exactly that. No loss of detail or transparency. Just a really "meaty" sound. Thicker, not duller. 

I had Rocket 44's at one time. My experience & opinion would be if you want to mellow out your sound they are a good choice. All the information is still there but are a very un-fatiguing  cable. A pleasant cable. That was my experience.

I think Audio Advice (not sure) still sells them in bulk. You could make your own for less cost. 

@moshif I mentioned Cardas because I also wanted to warm up my system a bit. I have the Clear Sky x4 and they did exactly that. No loss of detail or transparency. Just a really "meaty" sound. Thicker, not duller. 

@ghdprentice I recommend Cardas. They are designed to be more forgiving and natural at the lower cost levels and get much more detailed and revealing at the higher cost levels

@inna Nordost may sound thin, Cardas may sound bloated in midrange and upper bass.

@neversatisfied I will try to audition them first. Cardas is also in the running but I don’t know if I can audition both side by side. The shop I’m dealing with might not carry Cardas.

If you plan to try Cardas, be sure to demo different models in the product line.  The conductors, quantities, dielectrics change a bit throughout the line and each brings a different set of characteristics to the sound by design. Cardas offers tech support.  

It’s more than likely going to be between the Cardas and AQ. If AQ, it will be the Rocket 44. I think the one brand which came up the most was Cardas so that deserves a listen. In the end I still think they will all pretty much be the same. I don’t really cater to the whole “wow, that totally changed my system” theory. I still think a lot of what we hear is based on the dollar sign.

Having said that I do think that once one makes the step from box store RCA’s to pretty much any quality built cable that there is a gain to be had. My idea to upgrade is mostly based on gauge of the wire, Rocket 44 being heavier than my 20 year old Type 4. The fact that Cardas was a name which keeps coming up suggests that I at least have to have a listen to them if I can.

This is where I stand for now, at least until I get into the shop to a/b some stuff. Who knows, perhaps I will be surprised.

Cheers to all for the much appreciated suggestions.

http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm#differences

Cardas, more than most brands, has people who love them and those who do not like them at all...