To @jl35 when I typed this during the work week I did not have a chance to re-check what was public or not any more. And last time a colleague asked both OEM and the selling MFG, neither would confirm either way. And, figured one you in the well informed camps might say more. "I see nothing", with eyes and ears covered, lol :). There you go. 
Im going to regret my cable question
Having read so many "do speaker cables matter" threads, reviews, etc., over the years I am going to open up this can of worms again. So here goes.
I would like some opinions on the pairing of my amp, speakers, and a possible upgrade of speaker cables. My kit consists of a Rotel Michi X3, S2 and Monitor Audio Gold 300 G5's.
Would anyone venture a suggestion on what might be a good fit, with a budget of no more than $1200 CND.
I currently have Audioquest Type 4 which are some years old by now. Im looking at AQ Rocket 33 or 44's but I am open to other brands.
Although I understand the "coat hangers work just as well" theory I would prefer only constructive suggestions from those who feel there is a benefit to cable upgrades please.
Cheers.
85 responses Add your response
If you’re hunting for high-quality USB or Ethernet cables that won’t break the bank (around $300), I can’t recommend Missing Bond enough. Handcrafted in France, these cables punch way above their price tag—and come with a return policy in case they don’t blow you away (though I seriously doubt you’ll be sending them back). I recently went all in: I replaced every single cable in my system with custom-made Missing Bond cables. The result? Not only did I upgrade the sound, but it didn’t cost me a cent. By selling off my previous stash of overpriced cables, I actually came out ahead. There’s also something to be said for synergy. Having all your cables from the same manufacturer—sharing the same design DNA—matters. It brings a kind of coherence and consistency that’s hard to ignore. |
+1 to what @curthuff said. You might be surprised where AudioQuest sources their pure copper conductor from in the upper cable lines, along with some other manufacturers. While it's not public info in general, imo you are close enough if you like AQ, go for it. |
with your budget and your equipment i bet you would just be fine staying in the Audio Quest line of cables and inner connects. They have good stuff at various price points and have exceptional build quality. For sure, if you buy something and dont like it, sure better off than spending $2000 and not being satisfied at the higher price point.
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I'm at a loss as to why discussing cables in a cable thread might derail it, but you may have a point in the sense that perhaps folks in the digital forum are better informed about digital. Maybe.
Do you and whoever penned that comment appreciate art? If so, this piece will fit right in with that world view: https://collections.lacma.org/node/239578
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@devinplombier Another member stated it this way in this post.
- - - - I cannot offer a technical explanation. I can only offer my experience. - - - Re: Ethernet cable. 1’s & 0’s. My upstream streaming chain (modem, router, WiFi access point) is tricked out with power conditioning, LPS’s and NA Eno filters. The goal is to reduce noise. I’ve experimented with several different ethernet cables. Each had a different SQ that could easily be heard downstream. The process was not a quick A/B swap. It was long-term listening over weeks. I could hear the difference in dynamics, tone and timbre. I’m very pleased with my Sablon Audio 2020 Ethernet cables. Re: S/PDIF cable. More 1’s & 0’s. After reading this review, I purchased the Synergistic Research Galileo digital cable. The SQ changed when connecting the gold or silver tuning modules – or no tuning module. The SQ changed again if the ground pin was connected to ground – or not. Re: USB cable. More 1’s & 0’s. After my experience with the SR Galileo S/PDIF cable, I purchased this SR USB cable. The SQ changed when connecting the blue or red tuning modules – or no tuning module. The SQ changed again if the ground pin was connected to ground – or not. - - - Apologies for derailing this thread. This discussion should be under digital. |
By that do you mean that a digital cable, being made of copper after all, can pick up and transmit noise that could affect sound quality in an improperly shielded downstream component, or that the characteristics of a cable somehow have the ability to polish the 1s and 0s, as you say, in such a way that sound quality can be impacted? |
Not really. The 1’s and 0’s are on an analog carrier which can be tweaked to affect the SQ. Whether you hear the difference - or not - between cables depends on the resolution of the audio system. |
Any part matters in analog circuit BUT it depends on the circuit how much does it matter. For example, simple old tube schematics (Audio Note) will depend on cables way more than (most) modern solid state. But there are different solid state designs too, so... Someone's experience won't necessary apply to you. Ethernet cables are all the same though. |
@squared80 Bingo…we have a winner ! Cheers |
I am rather certain my amp has more than enough power. The speakers [4 Ohms] are rated at 250 RMS. Amp requirements are 100-250 W. All as per manual specs. Michi pumps out 350 into 4 Ohm. So no worries there. I also contacted both companies directly to confirm the match prior to purchase. Both said it was a perfect match. In fact higher power from the amp is safer than less, as per both contacts at both companies. [Which we all know] Cartridge compliance?? What? I stick a Rega cart. on my Rega arm. No brainer there. Its almost as you are trying to wind me up. |
In looking again at your system I am not so certain that your amp has enough power for your speakers. I couldnt find specs on your speakers, but they look they would favor current. To compare my experience with steaksters, I found power conditioning to be a detriment in some areas and helpful in others. One step forward one back scenario. But I have good power and live in a rural area. Of all cables I found digital power cords and I/Cs the most impactful. Then speaker cables, followed by power cords. But in none of these situations did I find that cables werent good investments and bordered on component level status. If you are looking for empirical data I think you should choose a new hobby. So instead of deciding before listening and confirming your personal bias, perhaps try rsstehno's advice and try multiple cables at once. Be careful with cartridge compliance with your Rega arm. Enjoy!
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You ask 50 people what is the best XXX component and you will get 60 different answers. It doesn’t matter what kind of music you listen too. Do you want to change cables if you play jazz after just playing rock? Getting many different responses, which you will, will make your decision more complicated. There are only a few cable manufacturers that sell cables in your price range. Ignore the ultra cheap like blue Jean cables and others because they are lifeless. IMO, start with speaker cables. There are companies and dealers out there that give you 30 days to decide if you want them or not. So bring in multiple cables (I’ve brought in 6 or more cables when I did my auditioning) and use them in your system to come up with a cable that sounds best to you, not to me, not to anybody on the web, but to you using your system. After picking a brand and model, buy their interconnects, same brand and model, and you will have system synergy. |
You kind of nailed it steakster. As much as I had the craving to add new cables I have really returned to my long held opinion that anything above and beyond my Type 4’s will really not change things. It’s not like I’m using coat hangers now. Days of searching for any crumb of empirical data on line to support my desire to upgrade has only brought me back to my old way of thinking. In fact the only evidence I find is that there is little to no difference. At least not to human ears. Specially my 63 year old ones. Thanks to all of you for your input. It was appreciated. I’ll put the cash towards a new stylus/cartridge on my Rega. |
I’ve been a cable-aficionado for a long time. In my experience, ’better’ speaker cables had an impact in my system, but the least impact in the overall SQ.
Improve things in general? Improve things how? Dynamics, tone, timbre, a fuller midrange, extension in the HF, extension in the LF, a blacker background, less distortion in the vocals . . . ? After many years of tweaking, my observations for improvement to the SQ in my system are in this order: (1) power conditioning (2) power cords (3) digital IC’s (4) analog IC’s (5) speaker cables.
You’ve established your confirmation bias. Why waste money on something that you’ll regret? Instead, treat yourself to a wonderful canoe camping trip in La Vérendrye Wildlife Reserve in Québec. It’s spectacular! A worthy investment for peace of mind. |
And so speaks a person whose mind is made up without even listening. I thought the OP told you guys to stay away. I think you need a new term to replace "snake oil". I think it is safe to say, by now, that the majority of enthusiasts believe cables make a difference. So we can doubt the experience of the many or doubt the experience of the few who dont compare.
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"Coat hangers work just as well" isn't a theory. All you need is plain OFC. Other 'bells and whistles' won't make things better, but they can make things worse. Just don't tell that to snake oil cable manufacturers, or those who support them. The ONLY thing you should be thinking about is how thick your coat hanger, er, OFC wire needs to be. 12AWG is what I use, but even that's overkill for my distance. And the ONLY reason to spend ungodly amounts of money on speaker cables is if you want them to look pretty, as decoration in your setup. Because they will NOT make anything sound better. That is a fact, not theory, based on both measurements and double blind testing. It never fails. |
When that occurs, ask which year, type, and cable model they’ve owned and tried. If they are serious and actually tried 2-3 different versions for comparing, many with transparent systems can usually describe the differences about likes or dislikes of each version. Feedback about preferences can vary within the product line, also dependent on what is going on within the rest of that individual's system. |
I have always believed that when it comes to speaker cables, the biggest decision is Copper vs Silver. Silver delivering brighter sound, while copper favoring bass. I would make the decision on this first - based on which direction you want to nudge the sound of your overall system -- then, get cables with that material that are in your price range and additionally received great reviews. In my case, I have Wilson W/P 8 speakers which are plenty bright, so, I use copper speaker cables to not emphasize the highs even more. |
@neversatisfied "I don't really cater to the wow, that totally changed my system theory". You just exactly stated my perspective on Cardas. Over the years with all the auditioning of cables via lending library from CableCompany any number of times I heard cables that gave me that short term wow factor, this to the degree I ended up purchasing a few of these 'wow' cables. Problem with these over the long term some kind of unnatural coloration/presentation. So back in goes the Cardas, return to relaxed, natural, balanced presentation, Particular model Cardas I'm speaking of is Golden Reference, these purchased in 1990's, I call them my old 'workhorse' cables. These simply chameleon cable for me, these cables have been through many systems I've built over the years, and they could be perceived as warm/bloomy, analytical, or anywhere in between. In reality the entire system creates the presentation, the cable simply reflects that. In the end. This how I now perceive cabling in general, mostly they simply reflect the system they're installed in. I no longer expect or want cables to 'color' my system. I can color/voice my system far easier with myriad other things. Now, you want to talk about power cables, much greater variables here! |
It’s more than likely going to be between the Cardas and AQ. If AQ, it will be the Rocket 44. I think the one brand which came up the most was Cardas so that deserves a listen. In the end I still think they will all pretty much be the same. I don’t really cater to the whole “wow, that totally changed my system” theory. I still think a lot of what we hear is based on the dollar sign. Having said that I do think that once one makes the step from box store RCA’s to pretty much any quality built cable that there is a gain to be had. My idea to upgrade is mostly based on gauge of the wire, Rocket 44 being heavier than my 20 year old Type 4. The fact that Cardas was a name which keeps coming up suggests that I at least have to have a listen to them if I can. This is where I stand for now, at least until I get into the shop to a/b some stuff. Who knows, perhaps I will be surprised. Cheers to all for the much appreciated suggestions.
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If you plan to try Cardas, be sure to demo different models in the product line. The conductors, quantities, dielectrics change a bit throughout the line and each brings a different set of characteristics to the sound by design. Cardas offers tech support. |
I had Rocket 44's at one time. My experience & opinion would be if you want to mellow out your sound they are a good choice. All the information is still there but are a very un-fatiguing cable. A pleasant cable. That was my experience. I think Audio Advice (not sure) still sells them in bulk. You could make your own for less cost. |
as @sns says:
Instead of trying to settle on one choice out of many suggestions, why don’t you use your ears? Order a few different options from The Cable Co., listen to them and see what appeals to you.This has been my go-to strategy for all cable upgrades for quite a while, now. |
AQ Type 4’s are pretty good cables, in their newest iteration, which includes a carbon-loaded polyethylene dielectric. There is something harmonically pleasing to me about the solid-core copper in polyethylene. My main issue with them was the relatively smaller aggregate wire gauge (i.e., about 15awg when connecting the 20 and 17 awg wires together for each pole). If you can bi-wire, you might try buying an additional pair for your MF/HF connections and then doubling up the cables you have now and run two full cables in shotgun fashion to your LF posts (about 13 awg to each pole) where wire gauge is more important than geometry. |
Took some 4 awg welding wire put it together, I'll let you know how my 10 k cabels go.i put majic dust in to improve sound quality the cables cost 100 to make the magic dust cost 9900$. Obviously there is some humor in this but I had to give it the college try and experiment. I only buy used cables cuz there broken in. I did not cryo them cuz i run out of liquid nitrogen.there are sites that sell raw cable and you can put the ends on them.enjoy the experiments.the cable co does let you try cables.there may be others that have return policies.enjoy the music. I do belive in large awg wire ofc occ I'm still expirementing. |
@neversatisfied wanting to warm sound up is fairly common here plus your Michi isn't known for being warm so just an educated guess. |
