I'd love it if I could rid the room of everything except the speakers (and room treatment, of course).
How important is spending time with your gear?
In another topic we're talking about digital input speakers, and it got me thinking about something entirely different.
How important is it to spend time physically close to your gear, vs. enjoying it's output? If you could have your gear in another room, or closet, and you were left with just your speakers with no audible downside would you do it? Would you put your gear away and enjoy the empty space or do you need the physical closeness?
Clearly turntables make this a challenge, and there will be some poopy heads which don't get the question or can't stretch their imagination but for those who can, would you?
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I guess my immediate thought would be realizing that the effort of putting away the gear and out of sight would be too much of hassle, and as I don't mind looking at my gear it's not an issue - a relief, even. Indeed, I enjoy both output and gear visibility, so the two are not mutually exclusive. Entertaining the thought, however: does the gear interfere subconsciously with my experience of music? I'm sure some would argue the mere physical presence of gear in the listening space, not least between the speakers, is sonically obtrusive, but as a thought experiment as it pertains only to the mental aspect of seeing/knowing the gear is in the room and how that effects the listener, my take as it applies to myself is it doesn't really matter. That is and to effectively reiterate: I prefer the gear in the room with the speakers - between the speakers, sonic obtrusiveness be damned - as its absence would somehow weird me out with a "where the hell is the gear" kind of thought. In any case the sound of my setup totally inhabits the listening space with its presence and there-ness, so the awareness of gear becomes secondary and indeed wholly negated - at least that's my conscious assessment. |
Great topic of discussion; thanks. I seem to have no stunningly beautiful electronics at my price point but I am fine with seeing them, or not seeing them. I have been thinking a bit of a 'speakers only' listening room lately but my rack is three low shelves so it's less visually intrusive. But it does take up floor space that could be open instead if the rack was gone. But, since the burlwood finish on the speakers is so beautiful (putting our furniture to shame) it's a toss-up on them being visually 'invisible' for me while listening; they already sonically are.
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Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy during times I'm not listening. When listening I go for total dark out room, eliminating distraction of physical sensory inputs allows one to 'see' further into music. Having said that, I do like the glow of tubes from my pre and 300B amp, 845 tubes are far more than glow, space heaters and like 100 watt light bulb. My SE blacked out 845 tubes much more of the nice glow. |
I agree that on first blush the post seemed silly and yet it grows upon one with further thought. Anyone who reads my posts would notice that for some weird reason I am hung up on the divergent personalities that make up the staff of Stereophile. I can’t help it. The OP referred to the aesthetics of the equipment but how do you divorce the gear from the room? So with that in mind I think of Mike Fremer’s $1m+ system (maybe closer to $2M?) and I don’t care how great it likely sounds, I would not care to spend time in his cramped cluttered rat’s nest of a basement listening room. His CH Precision and darTZEEL, and Ypsilon components are beautiful but his beloved SAT table and arm are ugly to my eyes and so are his robot-looking Wilson monstrosities-even worse in his cramped setting. I would sooner have the same gear in plain black boxes (his electronics, forgetting the Wilsons) in a nicer, cleaner room than his set-up. For better or worse, over the 45 years I have been into audio I have migrated toward craftsmanship and appearances combined with great sound. My highly modified and hot-rodded Thorens TD124 and Garrard 301 feature Reed 3P arms that to my eye are works of art and engineering and both sit on Layers of Beauty/Russ Collinson plinths that are not likely to be duplicated (at least by Russ) anytime soon. Both will endure for as long as this planet remains habitable in all likelihood. They will certainly get passed along to my two sons and be enjoyed by them, which is meaningful since my Thorens was purchased new by my father on a business trip to NYC in 1959. I selected the two sets of loudspeakers I rotate in and out of my dedicated listening room because they not only sound good to me, in my system, but because the enclosures are built in-house with painstaking care, Devore O/93’s and Spendor D7.2’s. My electronics, an SW1X DAC III Balanced, a Manley Steelhead, an ARC Ref 6 and Ref 180S are all built completely by hand. I suppose my Aurender W20 is not. Maybe that is why the Aurender is hidden from view on my rack, one of three Symposiums that are also made with great care and though not beautiful by any means, are not as ugly as many rack systems. I have relaxed in the same Ekornes listening chair for the better part of 23 years now and it still looks as nice as the day I bought it. Don’t get me wrong, my listening room is relatively small, my system is relatively modest, and I don’t claim to have anything close to a super-system or room. |
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I like simplicity and minimalism. Other than a wall mounted TT that can't be hidden of course, nothing to look at on my 4 rectangular boxes at all except a volume knob and input and record selector knobs that never get touched and a couple push buttons to start the TT and change its speed on its PSU. I'd be glad to hide them if it was convenient, but I like having maximum ventilation for my amp. |
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I like the look of my audio equipment as it’s all very well made and of good design I have two systems in the credenza, 2 channel & 5.1 and it’s located in my living room All the equipment is in a low profile credenza with soft close glass doors It holds my Oppo BD 105 , Emotiva XMC-2, Spectron musical MK lll amp ARC LS15 tube pre amp, Exogal Comet Plus DAC, Audiolab 6000N streamer, Anthem MCA-5 amp and a Xbox one X ( love to go Fonza 7 racing) I do have my VAC tube amp sitting on top of the credenza Hey yeah just have to watch those tubes glow! For critical listening l pull my Maggie’s five feet out into the room and my wife is almost ok with the painters tape on the rug to ensure proper sperker position 👌
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My system dominates a 16' wall of my living room. Since it incorporates a TV, I use it every day for both TV and streaming music which is on on the background continuously as my office nook is adjacent and open to the living room. Furthermore, I usually spin some tunes from my NAS later in the afternnon or evening, and whenever I go out, I invariably bring along my FiOO M11 Plus ESS digital audio player and a pair of IEMs. Music music music |
I initially thought it was ridiculous question but after reading the responses, think it's actually an interesting topic. I have had several different systems over 40+ years, many of which were very good for their time & often involved large speakers & big amps, solid state & tubes in a few different houses w/ different set ups. They were all out in the open w/ everything exposed on different racks & shelves, some home made & some purchased. I recently did a substantial system change & upgrade which now includes a very nice Rogers EHF 200 Mark II tube integrated amp for two channel music listening (along w/ Votli Audio Rival speakers - I have a very large room & play music loud but still its more power than needed) w/ a home theater by pass being fed from my Anthem surround receiver for movie & TV watching w/ a center channel, surround speakers & a sub. I have an Oppo CD player & I also just got a music server (first one) & a DAC. I have an excellent Basis / Vector turntable set up (now for over 20 years!) that still sounds outstandingly good w/ a good recording in good shape. Thus w/ all this stuff, I decided to get two Salamander equipment units enclosed w/ screen sides, screen doors & open backs to contain it all w/ the turntable sitting on top. You can just barely see the equipment through the doors which is fine by me & if I want to look at the stuff or play with it (rip a CD or select an input on the amp), I open the doors! . Everything has remotes that work well through the doors. Best of both worlds for me. |
Interesting question Erik not that it is all that important. Given the amount of misery in the world (things are going to get really f-ed up now) we all need diversions for enjoyment with friends, family and hobbies or we are all going to get seriously depressed. Spending time working with and adjusting your system is one way to stay happy. That is what being an audiophile is all about! Loving music is a conjoined but different endeavor. You do not need a stereo to enjoy music. Nor do you have to love music to be an audiophile, weird but it happens. People who will not listen to fabulous music because it is poorly recorded come to mind. You adjust your system to make the music sound as good or realistic as you can using live music and great recordings as a reference. You identify weaknesses and attack them as best you can. It is not something you finish. It is an ongoing endeavor because it is very difficult, expensive and elusive. This is what make it a challenge and fun. Unfortunately, there are factors that interfere with appropriate HiFi management and one needs to be careful. The marketing is vicious and you have to be careful how you interpret it. People always hawk what they do because they want to be right and many of them really want to help others along and may not realize they are perpetrating a myth of which there are thousands. Lastly, what you think you hear changes on a moment by moment basis. You have to be careful evaluating your own system and you have to take what other people think they hear with a grain of salt. It is just the way we are. Not that we should not talk about what we hear but you have to be very careful applying what others hear to your system and preferences. We are all human (well, most of us) and our your ears hear is being interpreted by our left temporal lobe which is a very flakey device.
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Tube Glow makes everything sound Better...
Indisputably true, at least for me. It must be that primordial visual link to fire and safety that feels so comfortable. Even with transistors! I once had a JVC (UX D150) midi system that had some valves on display. It was doubtful whether they were actually doing anything sonically, but it was impossible to not imagine that they were.
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Great question Erick! The “stuff“ part of the equation is in my opinion the “guy“ aspect of being an audiophile. We like our hardware. Your question also pokes at the issue of what will happen when we can have completely integrated systems like the upcoming KEF LS 60 that may provide as good or better sound in a much smaller and aesthetically pleasing package. Some of us just won’t go for it no matter how good it sounds I suspect. Personally, I like the DIY aspect so I guess I have to keep some hardware which I can open up and tinker with but I can easily imagine converting my main listening system in my living room to something much more compact and aesthetically pleasing if it performs. |
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Equipment is a means to an end for me. It's all about the music. I have never chosen a piece of gear because it was aesthetically pleasing. On the contrary, I've wound up some gear that I would pretty much describe as ugly. I would probably have all my gear in a side room except maybe the power amp and speakers, assuming I could afford a butler to lower and raise the tonearm at the beginning and end of the record. |
I love the way some audio gear looks, and visual aesthetics is part of what creates desire for a given item. Pintrest keeps sending me photos of beautiful listening rooms, and I do look at them. Audio porn. But...as it happens, my large listening room, which is also my living room, opens under a stone arch to the entry foyer of the house. The speakers, which are real beauties, stand on either side of that arch—and nothing can be placed between them without blocking entrance to the living room. Fortunately, there is an alcove behind a custom made chair on the left, between the left speaker and the wall. That's where I have the electronics, just as Jim Smith recommends. The remotes can "see" what they need to from the sweet spot, but I can't; my view is of those gorgeous speakers, the stone arch, and the complicated but graceful geometry of the foyer (walnut floors, carved wood door frames, stained glass...). Kind of a gothic "gentleman's club" atmosphere that contributes to enjoyment of music or conversation or just a fire in the fireplace. Fortunately, the acoustics of that room are better than anywhere else I've ever lived. Of course, I've taken care to conceal wires as much as possible. The downside is putting an LP on the turntable or a CD in the player. I need to kneel on that custom made chair, lean over it, and fiddle, while my backside is sticking out into the room. Undignified. But, hey; every peak comes with its valley. To quote Leonard: "There's a crack in everything; it's how the light gets in." |
My dedicated room audio laboratory is finished , the S.Q. is too much high for me to go back in a clean and minimalistic living room...Headphones would be better choice if i had to lost my dedicated acoustic room... Each morning, i open my 12 electrical switches in the same order and i listen music, samething in the evening.... I dont give a dam about the gear which is modified anyway like my little room is.... I love my soundscape where the world is no more...I am with the musicians on their stage or near them... What else? I dont understand people who look at the gear....My sound is too much beautiful to keep the eyes open...And my room is so "nut" that my grandchildren think i am a martian... They will remember my room... 😁😊My children are more surprized by the sound... My wife is sure i am "nut" but cannot deny my S.Q. evident quality and most of all i never take the 12,000 bucks i said to her i will need to create my audio paradise after my retirement... She think i am better "nut" than poorer with 12,000 bucks less in my bank account... I am very proud to say that my audio system basically good cost me 500 bucks...
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I very much enjoy looking at my gear while listening to music. The system is on its own (ground) floor so there is no issue with wires or WAF for that matter. It's my room and I do as I please in it. I keep it nice and tidy/clean. BTW my darling wife has more than one floor to do as she pleases. But viewing equipment as a simple pleasure is not in the same league as listening to music. Regards, barts |
If it were possible to have only my speakers, room treatments, and listening chair in the room I would do it. I use physical media and remote controls which make it impractical to have the gear in another room. Both sonic and functional considerations are at play for me, and I am sure others. My second system is full active like you mentioned in another thread. They only require the source and Mini-DSP unit to be in the room. I like that set up quite a bit. |
The OP's opening statement, which includes "with no audible downside" is the fundamental basis of this discussion. If we're looking for "right" and "wrong" answers here, I think we might be on the gas just a little too early exiting the turn. Mixed/multiple motives is not heresy, nor is it unique to high performance audio. When your kids (or, grandkids) are screaming for ice cream as you approach the 117 Flavors, you agree to stop. Is it: a) you just want to shut them up, b) you want ice cream yourself, c) you love them and want to make them happy, or d) an old high school flame is the proprietor and you want to take the chance that they are on duty? Or, is it "b" and "c" or "a" thru "d"? Or, even "e"? Does an aggregate of multiple factors elevate the "licks per minute" factor? Having an audio system that pegs the needle on the "feel good" meter on more than emotional level can have an accumulate effect on the overall listening experience for SOME listeners. Others may feel zero attachment to the gear itself and it's ALL about the music. Either way, the listener gets what THEY want. For some strange reason, I'm feeling the urge to paint my Audi with gray primer and replace the premium wheels and tires with some Grand Marquis police intercepter black steel wheels and hubcaps. Thanks, Eric. |
"with no audible downsides" I like the thought of this hidden or invisible system. Including the speakers. Yet still have every aspect of great audio, sure. My reality is very much the opposite. So, my system must sound good when On and look good when Off. I heard of this guy with a system in his van! Rat's nest of wiring and clutter. |
Excellent response @bobpyle There are many reasons one gets into this hobby. I hate to call it that because music is a natural part of my life and has been for 60+ yrs. However this isn't the case with some...maybe many. Some enjoy the equipment aspect and change components like I change records or CDs. One person told me it was a social event for him. For others its DIY equipment. Therefore for me I could care less if I see the equipment. My wife surely would like it out of the living room. But it was there when she met me and has stayed there for 47 yrs now. Thankfully she has also.I would like the remote to control the volume but that's about all I need |
@clearthinker, As a 66 years old music lover and someone who has spent 50 years trying to find hi-fif audio nirvana and have a traditional, expensive and entertaining hi-fi system, I had no intention of "expressing the wish of the next generation." I was expressing my own view, nobody else's. It seems that my thoughts are diametrically opposite to yours and I respect your need to enjoy the aesthetics of your technology. It is this diversity of values and need that makes a hi-fi industry flourish.
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