55” or 65” TV Screen Size and Your Speakers: Please Join Survey


 

With my two-way speaker build on hold as the clock ticks towards December 31st when my $1200.00 in Sony card points expire, I am struggling to decide between the 55” or 65” Sony A95L OLED TV. Sitting on chairs at Best Buy, I tape measured 11 ft from the 55”, which looked small, while the 65” looked too big at the same distance.

 

My largely empty living room is 20 ft x 11, with the west side open, crossing a 4 ft wide x 27 ft hallway and into a ~ 10 ft x 9 kitchen and then 3 ft wide staircase. A triangular ceiling that peaks at 11 ft is above it all.   

 

I plan to listen 10 ft from my speakers, with the TV between them and a foot or so behind the horns.

 

I built the 65” (56.9” w x 33” h) cardboard mock and to my eyes at 12 ft the 65” “screen” looks immersive.  

 

I will build the 55” (48.25” x 27.5”) mock as soon as I can get more cardboard from the local supermarket.

 

Meanwhile, it might be very helpful to learn of the experiences of other 55” and 65” TV users.

 

How far are you from one of those screen sizes?  

 

Do you sit on a chair or recliner?

 

Please describe the speakers that you use in place of the TV’s internal speakers, and how far you sit from them.

 

 

ajant

Hmm, always bigger always. No one ever said I wish I bought a smaller set. 
 

I watch on a 120” screen from 10’ away (pictures in my bio). I also sit 10’ from my speakers (also horns). I own an 83” tv too and it looks so small after sitting in front of my main rig. I sit in a powered recliner. 
 

I would really go bigger than 65. 83” is the new 65”, and for watching wide screen movies from 10’ an 83” is really the minimum. If you are just watching the news and what not it really does not matter what size you go with and 65” is fine. 

Go as big as your room will allow.

It`s all about the distance from your viewing position to the screen.

My LR TV is 86". My speakers are 8 ft wide center to center and I sit about 10 ft away picture looks great.

 Go BIG

In my main system, I have a 75" TV.  My speakers are a little over 10' apart and my sitting position is about 10' from the front baffles.  The TV sits a couple of feet behind the speakers.

My living room TV is 65".  I sit about 13' back.  We just use a Yamaha soundbar and subwoofer there.  TV could be bigger, but for general tv watching, it's fine. 

Thanks guys for the great feedback, though things aren’t good with a second look at the numbers. James’ room looks at least 50% bigger than mine, here on obscenely overpopulated, overtaxed Long Island, where the price of living space is equally obscene. Of course, > 3.5 decades of NAFTA driven bipartisan legislated massive over immigration made that inevitable. The 8.9” width difference between the 55” and 65” TVs can matter badly. Nope. On the 11 ft wall, the 65” TV, the speakers plus a foot between the speakers totals 14 ft, not including the subs. Even toeing in the speakers and subs would be a gamble to keep the right speaker and/or sub out of the hallway.

 

There would be plenty of room to put everything on the 20 ft wall but at least half of the back of my chair would be in the hallway.

The other option might be to place everything diagonally across the room, but that still might not work either.

Last resort for the 65” TV would be to use smaller speakers and dedicate my horn speakers for music listening. Not a desirable alternative, but unless you have a good-sized house Schiit Island’s a bad place to be an audiophile wanting to add a nice TV, where every inch counts here. But I’m stuck here until I retire; should have thought this through better.

Looks like it’s the 55” or nothing. At least that way if I got Revel or Wharfedale tower mains I could then fit a center speaker below the TV and still have my eyes on axis with the screen’s center, as a decent phantom center for movie dialogue my horn speakers is a big concern, though I doubt James has that problem with his JBLs.

 

 

We’ll never compromise audio for a bigger screen as you will regret it. Not wanting to move my left hand speaker closer to the wall is what stopped me from going with a 130” screen. Going from a 110” to a 120” screen was 7” wider and even having the speaker 7” closer to the wall affected the sound negatively. It is all a balancing act. 
 

I just use phantom center and see no reason not too (I have owned centers before). If you sit in the middle the sound is 100% correct in the center and I like to watch movies by myself. People talk about comb filtering on movies with phantom center as the speakers are in mono for most speech but as a very picky audiophile (aren’t we all) I have no issues with phantom center. The center is really a benefit for people off axis more than anything.   
 

On a side note I bought my house in Ohio for $95 a square foot… 

 

revel’s 226be is a nice sounding slender speaker if you ever wanted more room but I think they lack dynamics/snap next to a good horn. I would keep the horn and rock the phantom center. 

Current setup is a Sony 75” wall mounted TV. My head is 12’ away while sitting in my La-Z-Boy recliner, not reclined.

 

53" Sony approx 10 ft from viewing position (leather sofa); L/R are JBL horn-loaded 2-way stage monitors; C are two 12" from same series (daisy-chained); rear is summed signal to JBL tower w/2 of the 15" woofers; sub is 18" JBL stage.  Been considering a more "audiofool" setup until I watch a film with good soundtrack after which I always say "why?". (Today: Ghost in the Shell)

Everyone who says go big is correct.  IMHO.  Forget your initial reaction to the size of the screen.  Your brain will quickly adjust to what it is seeing.  In no time at all you will be wondering how you ever lived with a smaller TV.  Also, the price of TVs is falling monthly.  You no longer have to be rich to have a high quality monster screen hanging on your wall.  Cheers.

Yes bigger is correct but I missed that ajant is physically limited on width. To be clear I would just fill the entire space between the speakers with a tv/screen.

 

If the TV is behind the plane of the speakers it will not affect the sound much. I have done sighted A/B with my screen between the speakers and removed. I am not convinced a TV is anymore reflective than dry wall. Horns greatly limit the reflections off the front wall too and will be less effected by a TV. 
 

Technically a viewing angle of 60% feels about right and that happens to be the typical audiophile setup too (equilateral triangle).  

I've had my 55" LG OLED for about 6 years, if not longer, and sit a little more than 8' back and would jump at a 65" TV in a heartbeat. Like others have said, you'll adjust to it and appreciate it in no time. Don't overthink it. 

All the best,
Nonoise

Actually, I respectfully disagree with the bigger is always better. Good piece several years back in Consumer's Report about sizing a screen to your room and distance from screen. The primary thing I picked up about too big is that you can have difficult seeing the whole screen if you get too close.

I have an older (2019} non OLED Sony 55X950G, 55" that I watch from about 11' away sitting in a recliner. I use KEF R3 META speakers. HDMI Arc feed to the preamp. Sometimes use the TV itself for center channel for football games and non critical listening.

65" all day long.

 

I was redoing my den, and put a TV over the fireplace.  It was between a 55" or 65" Frame by Samsung, and after making cardboard cutouts to show size, my wife insisted on the 55".  She said, "You have a 75" Mitsubishi DiamondVision in your Man Cave, 55" is fine for the Den."

 

2 years later and I'm still bitter.  The 65" would have been perfect, and a 70" would even work.  When tv shows do a cut scene showing someone's phone with a text message, I have to pause the TV, get up, and walk in front of the screen to read the damn writing!  Not with my 75" TV.   Get the 65" and thank me later.

Have a 51ish" LG 9~11' away from many's the fave IKEA chair v. the chaises' high end.
Flanked by a coarse variant of a 'line source' is the 'flown' Maggies, the AMTs, the Polk bookshelf 'mids', ( Sony bookshelves committed to 'average TV' use; stand-alone amp...), Kenwood 10" 3 ways (interior x-over override; straight to the 10s')....descending order.....

There's more, but the 'head shot/talking head only' views as realizable as similar to ours....so anything I wish to do with 'the Else' around here is what I've in mind.

We control our media and How it's presented, whereas the audio portion can be many things as desired.

Spouse just wants it to sound Great.

No problemo.... ;)

65 inch OLED TV it’s measured Diagnally not straight across

OLED by far the best sharpest pictures and colors ,behind my speakers up above  on the wall 

the extra size brings great 2 channel concerts  or Movies I started with 55 

i May ever go to a 77 inch it just puts you there !!

75” at 10 feet for me with audio running 5.2.2, sitting on sectional recliner in bonus room. TV flanked with KEF R11’s. Went from 55-65-75” in that room over the 28 years. Somewhat space constrained for bigger. Picture in profile. 
65” in family room, 55” in master.
+1 for bigger is better.

I have a 55" Sharp from Best Buy in 2015 -$577. I stand and watch it about 12 to 15 feet back. It is on a long narrow black cabinet with drawers. No speakers near the TV. All HiFi gear along the left side wall. The Sharp looks real good - no desire to replace it.

For the good of the order, we have a 55” on a portable TV stand. We simply move it closer for a “bigger” picture. Works like a charm. 

Bigger=better every time. 

NAFTA hasn't really changed my TV viewing habits. 

I have a 65"   could never go back.   Never been a better time to buy a TV.   The cheap ones are good and the better ones are awesome.   

It is not too close for the bigger 65", just a matter of appearance when off.

Resolution: you can readily see in a store if you stand too close to a too big screen, typically not the issue. Too big: It really is the width related to your field of view, seeing both sides without needing to shift your eyes left or right any, Imagine reading sub-titles, while viewing. Paper is 8.5" wide based on natural field of view at reading distance.

I chose a 55" Sony, nearly identical distance, I sit 10'-6" eyeball to screen. Moving up from a 47", I thought a 65 would just appear too big in the space when off.

Since visiting a much bigger screen at a friend's home, his looked too big when off, but was not too big while viewing. Mine certainly could be 65" when on.

 

Height: We made a temporary adjustable stack of books to find the best height because Donna is 5' tall, I'm 6' tall, and I wear eyeglasses with progressive lenses and it effects your natural gaze, neck muscles ....

I made a 6-1/2" riser, and that allowed me to place the center speaker directly below the Screen, which has always sounded best for me. bottom of 28" high screen is 39", center 53" Center could be a bit higher like my friends was.

Center Speaker. YES, centered right under the monitor! If you do not change a 5.1 program to forced 2.0 or forced 2.1, then all the specific center content will be MISSING.

Always use Center Speaker: NO

I often force a streamed source to 2.0 and it often sounds better, some pseudo processing may have been done along the way.

When the original 5.1 is done well, it is terrific!

Dual Mono Phantom Center at least captures the content, but just like any Stereo Imaging, there is an entire front, and the mix/positioning can be anywhere the director want’s it, that imaging will be compromised when processing the center content to dual mono.

This little Bose Center Channel can do a darn good job.

Bose VCS-10 Little Center Speaker

Bose VCS-10 Center Channel Home Theater Speaker - Picture 1 of 5

 

Initially I used it behind a Big CRT in a big cabinet, another time behind the open legs of a 47" Monitor, and lastly under the riser below my 55" monitor I showed above. In all cases, the sound appears to come from the Image, and the content’s imaging was created.

I switched to the Klipsch R-34C, no rear vent

 

Klipsch Reference R-34C Center Channel Speaker - Picture 1 of 3

It is very cool looking, but I didn’t compare, so better than the Little Bose? The Bose has some output from vents on it’s top, they were below but under by the riser’s glass shelf. Klipsch is super efficient, I had to cut my center signal’s strength in the AVR to blend with the DBX Soundfield 100 fronts.

OP, You mention horns,

I learned from the video-centric cross dispersion pattern of the DBX 100’s, and change the toe-in of my 2 Channel Music System Horn Speakers when listening with a friend, both of us off center

Toe-In Alternates, Stereo and Video

His speakers are on Spikes, they are amazing sitting centered, but when we are both off center, not great, we always end up talking a lot there, listening more here.

I have a 65” that is 8’ from my ears.  I’m using a 3.0 system (right center left) consisting of Klispch floor standers (RF3 MKll) and the matching center and a Denon AVR.  I have a SVS SB2000 Pro, that I seldom use because the Klispch really toss out a lot of bass in my room.

65" for sure.  It might seem big at first, but you'll get used to it in minutes.

I also sit eleven feet away from my LG OLED TV I went with the 65 inch In all honesty I think a 75 inch would also work My setup is below and  speaker position is in the description 

 

https://youtu.be/E_Z0uLBPnBM?si=nJujmL-aUy-v0b_M

Always get the bigger TV, always! Every time you watch it, you will be asking yourself if you should have got the bigger one. You are totally overthinking this.I would have a bigger one, but my better half has a thing about the TV hanging over the entertainment center, don't want to buy a bigger one and a bigger TV. 

65 is really not that big, vs a 55, it's less than 10in bigger the way they are measured. Think my bedroom TV is a 55in.

My room is slightly bigger, sit about 12ft back, have a 9.4.2 system, all horn speakers. My TV is a 85in, still thinking about getting a 95-100in. For movies, the center is the most important speaker, think something like 80% of all movie sound comes from the center speaker. Getting all the levels correct is very important. The entire front soundstage should be the same level across the board, where you can't tell if the sound is coming from the center or the sides, unless it's panning, if so it should be seamless. 

The Klipsch R34 is a good little center, easy to place, and not very big. But it is prone to reflections, if you place it on anything, it should be at the edge, so no driver is reflecting off the top of bottom of the cabinet/shelf. It's also good to have all  your HT speakers timber matches, as sounds pan/move they all sound the same.

Tape measure?

That’s when I lost interest.

Went back and looked at the end. I plugged Monsoon 9 planar "PC" speakers into the headphone jack. They sound better to me than any soundbar that I have ever heard, regardless of price and hype.

Living room is only 16 by 18.   Have a Sony 55 inch OLED TV kitty corner and perfect for the size room, as my audio system already takes up much of the room. 

I’d go with the bigger size, every time. My first flat screen was an NEC plasma, followed by a Pioneer plasma, then an LG 65" OLED. All these sat between my main speakers, which are quite large Quad ESL-2905 electrostatic panels. I also have a Velodyne 18" subwoofer up front. No center channel desired or needed.

I have six more speakers for surround and Atmos, two at the rear and four in the ceiling. I also have a pair of KEF Reference 1 speakers which are alternatives to the Quads (they play louder!) and fit between them. The seating is a 3-seat lounge where the outer seats recline.

My partner has a more modest set-up, but has the same size 65" Sony OLED TV between KEF LS50 speakers. plus a sub and two rear speakers. Her chairs are individual recliners.

I’d note that all the speakers I have mentioned by name are designed to emulate point sources of sound and have excellent imaging, which is one reason no center speaker is used.

These systems are in the main living rooms in our respective houses, and fit into a space about 16 feet wide.

The price of TVs is certainly falling! My first LG OLED developed a vertical line after about 5 years, and LG eventually agreed to a full refund. I bought its successor and had half the refund left over!  I'd also take OLED over the current alternative panels every time.  Look from increasing side angles and the reason becomes obvious.

If you have the chance, go to an IMAX theatre and ask if the screen there is too big! Happy viewing ...

I don't even own a TV. 

I watch all my sports and documentary's on my computer. 

Prefer live theater and music. 

I'm 13 feet 6 inches from the TV and have had a 75" for 6 years.  Looking to upgrade to an 85".  Seems like every football season the screen gets smaller.You can check out my set up on A'gon as well.  Center channel sits beneath the tv and my speakers and subs are placed on both sides of the tv.  

Good luck!  Let us know how you make out.

I have 30x13 listening room, 77 inch feels small. Bigger is better. I have a Oled Sony, they are a little dark no matter how bright you watch. LED is better in that sense. I prefer a 85 inch LED to 65 inch OLED. Bigger is always better, no matter what technology you buy. Your room is very good size, consider other options 

I would go with Sony just cause I hear they have the best picture. I never use the operating system on my LG and Samsung since I have an Apple TV . TV operating systems are horrifying to deal with. I say this because the Sony operating system is limited as far as getting apps and so forth as I recall.

If there's enough room for the main speakers on the side of the TV then the 65 inch would be worthwhile pursuing. 75 inch TVs would be nice but they are seriously heavy versus 65 inch which is considerably lighter. The 65 inch requires two people where is the 55 inch can be handled with one person if there in good shape.

I use Bowers and Wilkins and maybe I would be better with Sonus faber.  

Since you're really invested in a really good decision I would post a picture of the room since people really taking an interest in this. I don't post pictures and maybe I will at some point but I have to rearrange some things to make it all look pretty it's hard for me to do it. 

55" screen,14’ from screen to eyes +- a few inches..Sectional couch,Harbeth M30.2Xd speakers,32" in front of screen,24" from side of screen to center of speakers..
I NEVER liked Sony picture,always found it soft,HATE LG after a BRAND NEW,$400.00 LG phone locked up after very first update & LG refused to honor warranty,ABSOLUTELY love all 3 Samsung 3D tv’s I have owned!

85 inch Sony LCD from Costco. Sound by Yamaha NS-5000's. Paid an electrician $350 to move the rj45 jack (Cat 6e cable) from the garage to beneath my main TV so now everything is hard wired to fiber optic service. TV is also hardwired to a rooftop antenna. $45 by a local guy. 

The building is a newish tract house with PVC pipe strapped to a stud inside the sheetrock with access high and low so all the TV cables are hidden in the pipe. They also placed an AC outlet high where the TV can use it hidden. Same set up in the master suite with older gear. 

Go BIG! I am looking at a projector hung from the ceiling, and a retractable 110" screen. I don't when to stare at a screen when listening to my hi fi. 

Bigger=better every time.

NAFTA hasn’t really changed my TV viewing habits.

Don’t mean to rant, but yes, I sure can thank NAFTA legislators, the transnational investor elites they serve and conspirators like these bums for driving up the cost and down the quality and quantity of every basic human necessity-and that goes double for living space-not to mention having zero issues with accelerating climate change. https://fortune.com/2023/12/16/jeff-bezos-elon-musk-human-population-outer-space-mars-spacex-blue-origin/  Indeed, that self-serving mentality has firmly put life on earth on the road to this hideous and terrifying future.

https://www.google.com/books/edition/Planet_Aqua/O28TEQAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&printsec=frontcover

An alternate view, though good luck finding parallels even on PBS.

https://www.theglobalist.com/is-population-growth-a-ponzi-scheme/

Meanwhile, let’s not kid ourselves: For a bigger TV to always be better, you need to have adequate space for it, versus space for better audio. Footprints of my speakers and subs will be nearly as big as James633’s. That plus my electronics forces me to count every inch. For me, and I’d think like James633 and most forum members, high performance audio must trump video every time.

So, like Stereo5 and a few others on this thread, I’ve had to face the miserable fact that I don’t have adequate space to do both-at least the way I want to. But at least they don’t seem to find the 55” screen oppressively small, as some even view it from 10 ft or more. The 55” will have to be 10.5 to 11 ft behind the horns, and with the speakers 10 ft from me. Such are the economics of living space on Schiit Island.  

I got lucky last night and picked up this big slab of cardboard; resembles the size of 77” Sony I saw last week at Best Buy. I’ll cut it down to a 55” mock of the A95L and compare it to the 65” mock at various distances.   

 

When you go to the movies (do people still do that?) where do you sit?  How immersive  do you want the experience?  I usually try to sit where the screen fills my whole field of vision so usually try for the seats behind to the crossing isle.

My current TV is 85 inch and doesn't seem to big at all.

My TV in my main listening room is 65 inches.  I sit in a recliner right in the middle about 3 meters/9 feet away.  I have it hooked up to my 2.2 music system.  Thinking about getting a used soundbar just for watching TV when needed.  

As an aside, what brand of current TVs has the best picture?  Maybe more important than size?  I have always preferred the look of a Plasma screen.  Thanks to our movers, we had to replace the last one a couple f months ago.  Bought  an OLED screen from LG.  I've learned not to hate it but still I long for the Plasma.  The dreaded "soap opera" effect is near impossible to completey get rid of.  I wish the manufacturers would simply put a "plasma" setting in the myriad of options.  Volumes have been written on how to fine tune the picture.  It's clear the majority don't like the factory settings.  So who has some pearls of wisdom on the best screen to actually look at?  Cheers. 

I agree with you and have a Sony 55” as my main visual media. It’s in a room along with an amp/receiver, a center speaker, and a pair of studio speakers. I sit about 10’ from the tv and 8-9 feet from the speakers. It is not a completely immersive experience but I didn’t I intend it to be. It is however, a very pleasant place to watch  tv as the world go by.

The tv is a 4k with a 4k dvd player with is also a Sony. The player up scales to 4k anything it plays and it does help a bit.

My music room is smaller and includes an old 40” Samsung  and lots of old audio equipment along with book shelves cabinets, and a cd cabinet. That also happens to be my workout room as it is partially underground and sonically has less reflections. 
I don’t know if anything I have said will help except the tv size debate your going through but after you make your choice, you will get used to whatever size it is and regrets will fade. Even if you get an 80” inevitably there will be compromises about size and placement so do your best guess and live with it.

I am not a "videophile", but, it is nice to have a bigger screen when watching concerts and music videos. 85 inch TVs is what I have.

My PC is also hooked up to it and I work on it a lot through the day (not just there for entertainment only)..helps to see things clearly from 11 ft away.

allways go big i had a 65" samsung curved screen after 2 mos it cracked and Samsung said it was physical damage by me NO was not
refused to warranty it they did this all over the world to millions of customers! the scum ! they just cracked fr stress as curved glass windshields do too
i had bought it @ wall mart and got the extra extended insurance they paid me $2 K said it was outrageous samsung refused to warranty it !
and i bought a 85" Samsung ( flat screen they stopped making curved TV screens except for small computer screens ) too bad as i liked them!
so fast forward 1 year i eas reading on Cnet forum samsung had done this all over world blamed consumers for cracks refused warranty someone said write to the BBB in NJ USA samsung headquarters make complaint i did
two weeks later got a email "oh sorry as a one time customer consideration we will fix your screen" so came to house w/ crew and big folding table /worksurface disassembled the screen replaced it and all good , all new 1 SO I GOT MY $ BACK and GOT A NEW 65" SCREEN FREE! 7+ YEARS NOW still HAVE NOT USED IT !
PLAN IS TO MAKE A CABINET ( lots of YT videos how to ! ) AND BUY ONE OF THE $150 MOTORS AND FRAMES THAT WILL RAISE THE 65" tv FR THE CABINET AT FOOT OF BED! then retract it ! .
advice ? go big ! 82’ 85"          65 or 55" is TOO SMALL! I sit 8’ fr my screen BTW
center channel is an experiment ! 

WELL , THE CURRENT STATE OF THE 11.2 CENTER CHANNEL EXPERIMENT HAS US USING:

1) A YAMAHA a MST55D powered computer speaker ( a 8:" woofer and two two way satellites ,

2) a Vandersteen VCCC1 center channel

3) a ben Q trevolo desktop electrostatic speaker ! 2 flat panels ( very clean sound ! ) and 2 passive radiators and 2 4" woofers!

AND

we have a small Yamaha 10" sub woofer ! ( for the LooooooooW HZ! LOL

all above playing together and in mono it actually sounds GOOD!

Future experiments will include trying the Allison 2 way center chanell, speaker and trying the AL105, RA labs mini monitors , the AL110 and NL654 !

ultimately we plan to repurpose a AL130 to a horizontal , re arranged driver configuration L to R W-T/M-W super center channel speaker !

that will be ONE heavily modded speaker ! might even add some 6’ or 4 " Allison Woofers and make it a 4-5 way design! w/ 8" 6" and 4 " drivers 🙂No photo description available.

May be an image of speakerMay be an image of speakerMay be a graphic of blueprint, floor plan and textMay be an image of speaker

allison NL654 I may try in center channel -like a AL110 but shorter and deeper and allison model 9 might try 2 together ,horizontal rotate tweeters mids 90deg  

OP - As everyone (except a numpty saying it's too big as you can't see all the screen at once!! How far are you watching at - 3 feet?!) has said to you, go as big as you can. You will get used to a 65" in minutes. Get a 55" and within those same minutes you'll be saying - I should have gone with the 65. GO BIG!

I use a 65" LG G4 between my Maggie 1.7i's in a 22' x 16' room, with speakers 'fireing' down the long length. There's c2' from Mag outer panel edge to the side wall, and a bit less between the inner panel edge and the TV, on the same plane. Eye to panel is c12'. The TV in the centre though, DOES affect the stereo image - the TV is on a stand and is c3' from the back (you lot, in the US, weirdly, call it the front - how can a space BEHIND the speakers be called the front?!) wall. For 'critical' listening I put a thick/heavy soft blanket, doubled up, over the TV screen, and the image has a better focus - singers/instruments are more sharply defined within the excellent sound stage the Maggies produce.

Anyone who says you don't 'need' a centre speaker, is,,, not correct! It's an ABSOLUTE necessesity. Messing up the sound stage of a film without a centre is a heresy. >60% of the mastered sound comes from the centre channel. It's there for a reason, and the reason is easily heard when doing an A/B comparison.

I took my centre speaker over to two friends' who also believed a centre was not necessary, and after trying a few films with/without, they both bought a centre speaker and said it (watching a film), was a MUCH more involving experience with a more even soundstage where vocals were much better produced, and the whole film sound stage was more clearlly defined. And, as for the poster who doesn't use a pair or rears!!! Wake up man, you're missing a MASSIVE amount of film experience.