My system is WiiM pro ( a great device for $149 !) and a Cambridge CXC V2 CD transport for digital input going into a Schiit Yggdrasil+ DAC going to a Schiit Freya+ preamp into a PS Audio S300 amp into Harbeth 30.2 XD speakers. I am considering replacing the S300 with one of the following: PASS XA-25, Coda S5.5, Benchmark AHB2, or tube Primaluna EVO 400, used Rogers EHF-100 or 200, used Luxman MQ 88uc. I like my current system and wonder if an amp change would improve it significantly ?
From where you are, warm sounding but plenty of bass I'd think you'd want something maybe a little livelier while keeping the robust nature.
Pass is to me a very personal choice. Fanboys claim it's the end all to everyone, but to me it's a hazy IPA or a sour beer. You really need to listen to it yourself and you'll love it or not. Definitely not an amp I'd buy based on other's recommendations, even mine. :D
I've heard Luxman SS with Harbeths and they work really well together, I'm also a fan of the little Rogue tube integrateds. Not sure how the Luxman tube would work, kind of be tempted to keep it in rotation. That is, if you can afford to, keep your PS Audio and add the Luxman tube.
Another interesting sounding amp for you would be Ayre.
Sound of this amp, after adj. bias at higher side, is very “liquid” and “warm”! I use 88uc 4 Ohms output posts to drive 8 Ohms speakers, which reduces noise floor (mq88uc' is one of the lowest noise in the tube amps crowd) and increases damping factor. I rarely crank it up to higher than 10W output power, so, lower power of this tube wonder than SS is not an issue! Another advantage of this Luxman creation (this concept started in 60s) is a very gentle tube loading, which prolongs tubes life time (saves maintenance cost). Luxman runs these amps for 50hrs before final adjustment, thus no break-in is needed!
I bought the discounted Tyr’s to match with my Blades. Sounds like the new Tyr will be Forkbeard enabled, but not sure what else will be different. Not sure they could get significant more power out of the choke filtered power supply..
@carl292 I was watching Stoddard’s end of year video, and he talked about the next iteration of the Tyr. They are trying to get some new features that will make the amp a lot costlier. I get the impression that getting the discounted Tyr today will leave you disappointed if they get the uber Tyr done.
I have 2 Aegir v1's that are going to be my long-term amps for my bright headphones. The amps sound a lot like the KRELL DUO line. Sweet and smooth. So, the person I quoted above is saying the Wotan sound sweat and smooth but even better then the Aegir.
@carl292 I am going to being doing something crazy. I carried the 110lb CODA #16 amp into my small office from my Livingroom. The office has a Magnepan Mini system. The Mini sounds better than the Magnepan LRS+ but it is meant for a small room or desktop system. I normally have the Sanders Magtech on it, but I wanted to try the #16 on it and also the Sanders on my Yamaha NS5000 in the Livingroom.
To say how blown away by the #16 and Mini is an understatement. I am going to keep this pairing for a while since I spend most of my life in the office. I want to try the Wotan or Tyr on this system later.
Unfortunately, I do not like the Sanders and the NS5000. I am going to sell the Sanders. I have been talking with Schiit fans and trying to decide on whether to get the Tyr or the Wotan. Here are 2 links from Jason Stoddard that you will find helpful.
“Spill it, bro,” someone says. “All I need to know is should I go Wotan or Vidar or Tyr or whatever. Which one sounds the best?”
Weeeeeeeellll, you know we really don’t get into that so much, but here’s what I can say: if you want something that is big and brutal and dynamic and fully the match of pretty much any speaker, you can’t go wrong with Wotan. It has more power than ever a pair of Tyrs. It has fans to get it through crazy loads. It has feedback switching for more compatibility with different systems, and more gain when feedback is off. It even has remote control switching of balanced and XLR inputs via Forkbeard.
But of course there’s Vidar 2F. Which is a heckuva powerful amp at a very low price, and it has the fun Forkbeard stuff now.
And Tyr, if you want the ultimate crazy mono amp with choke-input power supply. At a very good price now, as we work on finalizing the Forkbeard version.
Bottom line, there’s not really a bad choice.
But if you want one amp…one amp that can drive pretty much any pair of speakers you want to throw at it…then there’s one super-safe, super-smart choice: Wotan.
I hope you enjoy!
Jason did say that he thought the Tyr was a bit more polite than the Wotan meaning he preferred the Wotan. Most of the Schitt fans I polled like the Tyr, but they never heard the Wotan and already spent their money on the Tyr.
I do think the current Tyr will be upgradeable to the new Tyr amp upgrades.
This is what someone wrote me about the Wotan.
in my opinion, Wotan is overall Warm with plenty of detail. No odd crunchy highs. I have had the MLs with a single Aegir 1 initially, then added another so monoblocked. The Wotan sounds a lot like an uber Aegir to me. I never liked the Vidars, Aegir added that beautiful warmth that i love.
And as far as graininess goes, i can’t hear any, but obviously, ymmv.
@carl292 I have been looking at the Schitt Wotan mentioned above and have been discussing the amp with owners over at Head-if. They are a lot of Schitt fans there, so I take that bias into consideration. From what was said I am going to order the Wotan amp and compare it with the CODA #16 I have. If the 2 amps are in the same sonic ballpark, I am going to sell the #16 to get a headphone and keep the Wotan.
The Wotan uses fans but that is not a concern for me these days after my good experience with the KRELL DUO 175XD which also used fans. Though I do not know it ever turned on.
Put the best power cord you can afford on your main source, then everything else before doing your interconnects. Check out Shunyata Power Cables. You might also want to upgrade your wall sockets and power strips to something higher quality like an Isoclean. Or get the new Shunyata Power Distributors
Bryston 14b3 or Bryston 4b3 amp. Use a great tube preamp with the Bryston and you would be surprised at how good it will sound. The crucial choice is the preamp because the Bryson's are pure, neutral power...solid and dependable. In other words, the preamp you chose will determine the quality of your audio output while the Bryston simply delivers it to your speaker choice.
Amp that will match your speakers will definitely a game changer. For 15 yrs my eggleston Andra were not maximize if I will get powerful amp I get good sound but no musicality I like. Until I found the Tsakadiris apollon monoblock using KT 120 tungsol powerful enough to drive my Andra to give liveness and musicality.it was a perfect match.
Your system seems already thoughtfully worked through with very good quality components. The Freya+ is an excellent preamp in the kind of system you have, it affords you three different processing modes, two with gain, one with tube gain and tube rolling is very easy if you are inclined to experiment. The Freya+ volume control is very precise. (It is easy to understand why that preamp is so popular.) Your amp is high quality with plenty of headroom. With what you have already, I doubt adding class A amplification or a tube amp will do all that much to improve what you already like in the room you have with the system you have. Pairing a tube preamp with a good quality solid state power amp is an excellent way to get the "tube sound"--the warmth, "airiness" and expanded soundstage everyone using tube gear seeks--while getting the power you need to drive low-sensitivity speakers in the 85dB range. If you want to try some small adjustments, changing out the tubes in the Freya+ would be the place to start.
IMHO an amplifier change can really change the system sound. But so can a good preamp. Or a speaker change. Or room treatments. But I don't have any direct experience with any of the components that you currently have, so .... YMMV.
"I like my current system and wonder if an amp change would improve it significantly ?"
Probably not. If you are using the Schiit front end components and already are using the tube section on your Freya+, adding more tube amp effect or Class-A in lower-power amps won't likely add much to a system you already enjoy that has 140 WPC.
For some of us, less is more. I went from full on separates to a one piece system and couldn't be happier. I sold all my McIntosh separates, and my Bluesound equipment and purchased a Linn MDSM all in one unit. It has everything built into one unit. The only other thing I bought to make it all work was an iPad to use as the interface. I could use the Linn app on my Mac Mini to control it, but prefer the iPad. If I am in the other room I can even use my phone to control all but the TT remotely. I have my TT and my Mac Mini (used as a music server) hooked to it. I stream Qobuz, play any of my 8,000+ ripped songs, and my albums. All without a lot of clutter of cables. Everything but the TT is connected wireless over my mesh router.
I demoed a half a dozen amps that all sounded the same from Nac, B&K, NAD, Sunfire, RGR and a couple others that made no difference. When I stepped up and tried a Krell product I was impressed at how much smoother music was. All those 200 wpc 'budget' amps sounded hard and unforgiving once I turned the volume up while the Krell, with the same power rating was able to play louder without the speakers shouting at me.
Don't be afraid to listen to products above your budget even if only to hear what you're missing, or not.
Don't have a lot of amp experience, just know that my Primaluna EVO300 pre with a PassLabs XA25 and 87dB speakers (PearlAcoustics Sibelius, REL T9) in similar size room works great for me. No problem with power, volume dial is at maybe 10 o'clock, at noon it gets painfully loud.
@carl292Sorry for your loss. I have not heard of Judge Joe Lodge though I did once get dismissed for jury selection in SB. I think the judge was a bit amused at how that happened with my interaction with the prosecuting lawyer.
My wife may have heard about him since she worked as a nanny when she first came to the US with a prominent family involved in the legal system. She was at the Michael Jackson trial but almost got kicked out of the court because of her disapproval facial expressions during the trial.
I am a firm believer in keeping everything in the same manufacturer if possible…I would get rid of everything you have and go all in with PS Audio…a full bloom..amp, preamp,Dac, streamer and speakers…you can’t do that with to many manufacturers….other wise stay the same…a different amp won’t help you…
To answer your question, no, an amp will not significantly improve (or hurt) a system regardless of what the sufferers of expectation bias will tell you.
The above should be ignored at all costs. Just silly advice on any level....
Of the amps you have listed I can vouch for the Coda s5.5 It has 100 amps of high current and should drive the 6 ohm Harbeth easily. It is a very good amp, I love mine. My system is in my user page. What I love about my Coda is it tells you everything that's going on, yet is so sweet and delicate with a midrange tonality I have yet to hear better. (Better than my old VAC amp) I have never heard Harbeth speakers before but I have read that their known for their fantastic midrange. The Coda may work well to bring that out of them for you. Good luck with your search. Reach out to @vinylvaletfor info on the Coda if interested, he is a great guy to deal with.
@yyzsantabarbaraIf you are from Santa Barbara you might know or heard of my brother-in-law Judge Joe Lodge who passed recently after being the longest serving judge in California history.
My opinion: run away from benchmark unless you like highly detailed sound! Check out the newer PS Audio amps/integrated amps, much better sounding than their older stuff. In the past, I purchased the top of the line Hegel integrated amps over the pass integrated, the Hegel sounded more natural and had a lot more power. Then when I got bigger speakers I went with the newer BHK PS Audio separate amp. Even the new class D ps audio amps sound very good.
Another opinion since your all digital like I am, I go straight from my dac to my amp, no need for a preamp as long as your dac has very good volume control. When I sold off all my analog stuff many years ago, I had a $5000 preamp and when I bypassed the preamp and went straight from the dac to the amp, sq improved, so I sold the preamp with the extra set of cables.
@OP GHD Prentice's post sums up the amplifiers very well. I would also add that if you like your Harbeths, then you will like the Pass. However, if you predominantly listen to rock music or large scale classical, and depending on your room size and seating position, you might want something with a bit more power - but that needs to be real power and not just watts on paper.
I tried the Freya+ with the CODA #8 and did not like the amount of warmth I had. I liked the AHB2 and Freya+ the best with all the amps I used with the Freya+. I was not a big fan of the Freya+ and find that the Claas A Schitt Mjolnir v3 is better than the Freya+. Though it does not have a remote.
You have a lot of warm gear piling on top of each other. I know people like that type of setup, but I find a nudge towards neutrality when having a lot of warm gear really works for me. That is why the Benchmark AHB2 is what I would use if you keep the Freya+.
The Yggi+ LIM is my warm DAC. I need it for my bright headphones, where the Yggi+ OG is too revealing.
The AHB2 can be obtained from Benchmark for a 30-day home trial. If you want to spend a lot more the SimAudio 761 amp is what I consider the next version of the AHB2.
Another option is keeping all of the existing gear and try the Benchmark LA4 replacing the Freya+. It will be a totally different sound. A home demo is another option for the LA4.
BTW - I am trying to sell my Sanders Magtech (500 | 900 @ 8 | 4) that I use with Magnepan Minis because I need a different standby setup than the Sanders uses (it is automatic). It is an excellent amp. I am thinking of the new Schitt Wutan which can be put to standby manually. The Sanders would work nicely like the AHB2 to balance out a warm setup. It is warmer than the AHB2,
My room is 12' X 24' and heavily carpeted. I run the Freya+ in tube mode. I forgot to mention I have a REL T/5X Sub. My cables are Audioquest, Kimber, and Cardas lower end. I had a Marantz model 8B amp and 7C preamp running Rogers LS3/5A speakers and I loved it. Lots of helpful comments so far and I appreciate all of them. Another idea would be mono blocks like Schiit Tyr. BTW, the book Schiit Happened by Jason and Mike available on Amazon is an excellent read imo.
Changing your power amplifier can improve your system, but as the saying goes, “it all depends.” I changed from a highly-rated tube amp to Odyssey Kismet solid state monobloc amps that are twice as powerful as the stereo tube amp. The change was dramatic and instantly noticeable. It depends, however, on your preferences and the specific characteristics of the power amplifier involved. My earlier change from a highly-rated solid state amplifier to the tub amplifier did not sound as well, hence the switch back to a solid state power amp with my Rogue Audio tube preamplifier.
Let your ears be the judge, but there is very good counsel be had in this forum.
To answer your question, no, an amp will not significantly improve (or hurt) a system regardless of what the sufferers of expectation bias will tell you.
The S300 is a fine amp for the price, but for me the Pass was much better sounding...don't know your speakers though...some love Benchmark, but very many do not...
I have the 30,2 40th anniversary (almost the same as the XD) and matched it with a Pass Labs XA25. It is a match made in heaven. Don't know about your room size but, it is plenty for mine of 20x12. If you want some info about the combo, please check Herb Reichert's review in Stereophile Mar 2018. The interconnect is a RCA Cardas Rev1 and a good match with the Pass. I have tried different stands and highly recommend the Ton Trager. More expensive but it makes Shaw's cabinets sing because of their resonance configuration. Keep us posted about your choice for a new amp.
A note, on your list are radically (!) different sounding amps. The Pass will be very natural sounding, and perform as if it has much more power than the specs would suggest. I think it would be an excellent choice to help your system be much more musical. On the other hand Benchmark (or the Luxman to a bit lessor extent)is highly detailed oriented and is going to reinforce the leanness of the other components in your system. One of the big differences in better systems is they can be more fleshed out and sound much more natural sounding. The CODA will be in between. If you like a very detailed analytical and a strong bass slap (somewhat artificial) the the Benchmark Luxman side, CODA in the middle as is the Rouge (although it is tubed… it doesn’t have the refinement of better tube designs) or the Pass for more musical and natural.
I prefer nartural and musical sound that is still detailed, not in your face, but laid back with a deep - wide sound field… I’d choose the Pass. I had a Pass amps for several decades.
I agree with @audphile1, I would go with a bit more horsepower, even if you don’t listen at higher volumes. I own the Coda #8 v1, and while I have not heard the PS Audio amp, I feel it would be a significant upgrade.
I would recommend more power than the minimum required 25w for these speakers. Keep that in mind. Coda S5.5 should be fine but I would probably opt for No.8 V1 just to get more headroom. Not familiar with other amps in your list never heard them. I used to own Pass XA30.8 though and it did drive my Wilson Sabrina ok but it left Class A frequently to deliver more power.
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