Tube or solid state

I like, and own, tube gear.  The amp, more than anything, determines the sound.  I think one should find the right tube amp first, and then use whatever linestage you have.  My preference, again will be tubed, but, the choice isn’t quite as critical as the amp.

So much of the sound of the amp depends on compatibility with choice of speaker, type of amp (single-ended, pushpull, output transformerless), choice of output tube type, and quality of parts (particularly the output transformers). Make good choices here and spend most of the electronics budget here, and the sound would be good with any decent linestage.

 Because most tube amp designs don’t really need gain or drive from the linestage anyway, it makes sense to buy a good integrated amp which is often not much more than a tube amp with a volume control, source selector switch and extra input jacks added to a basic smp.

All of the best systems I’ve heard featured full tube preamps into tube amplifiers, and that combo is my preference. If I could only pick one, I’d be inclined to go with an integrated tube amp.

My best sound has been tube preamp to tube amp with very efficent horn speakers (current setup). So, if your speakers are inefficient, you might someday change your speakers!

However there is budget, and love of existing speakers, and WAF, so ...

I’ve done SS preamp into tube amps (mono blocks) and been happy, just more happy with tube/tube.

I’ve done tube preamp to SS amp (those less efficient speakers needed plenty of power) and been happy, just ....

One or the other, tube preamp to SS amp. My friends bring their equipment here from time to time, recently a friends new tube phono stage, and alternate tubes the seller included. We tube rolled, found the preferred tubes for his, surprisingly the rectifier tube change made a big difference. Then compared his to mine. We both preferred mine, so it can be prefer ’this particular’ unit, or the which tubes in that preamp.

I settled on a CD player, vintage Sony xa5400. I liked it thru a friends SS preamp, we both loved it thru my tube preamp. I might not have kept it if I heard it thru my old SS preamp.

The ’right’ tube selection can definitely make a difference in preamps, amps, phono stages ... it’s hard and can be pricey to find the preferred ones (not better, preferred).

There has to be 100 threads on this already, search archives....

Count me in with those preferring tube-tube signal path. In context of the OP topic, I’d go transistor-tube rather than tube-transistor. In reality you can enjoy success with either option. However, I agree with larryi in that the tube amplifier provides more of the “ tube” effect/influence than a tube preamplifier.

My preference assumes compatible speakers with a good tube amplifier. Some speakers are designed with the intended partnering with transistor amplifiers. 

Charles

One thing to have in mind is that many tubed preamps have a high output resistance requiring careful matching with some ss power amps. Otherwise any combination can be successful, depending on speaker, but i have to agree that generally tube sound is more evident with tubed power amps. 

 

A more thorough answer

Tubes/SS: Only one tubes, Other SS: which one tubes = best choice?

My Answer: Tube Preamp into SS Amp.

Yap, Yap, Yap, but I have done each combo and you asked.

First, let’s add the consideration of the phono stage, in preamp or separate, tube or SS.

I’ve been happy with each combo, but thoroughly happy with tube/tube with tube preamp’s phono. (current setup, with very efficient vintage horn speakers).

Budget, Love of existing speakers, and WAF (or mate’s AF) are involved, but you could change the speakers to more efficient ones to go tube/tube now or someday. Efficent Speakers is always my advice for a new setup.

………………………………………….

I had three setups for a few years, all these efficient horn speakers.

1. tube amp mono blocks (Fisher 80AZ, 1958),

2. Tube Fisher Receiver (Fisher 500C, 1964)

3. SS preamp (McIntosh SS C28) into McIntosh SS Amp (MC2250).

Three sets of matching speaker wire, color tape, easy to reach colored bananas to switch.

CD/LP/R2R. Sgt. Pepper; Everyone chose LP over CD; everyone chose R2R over LP (even though R2R had the most S/N noise).

Next R2R thru SS or Tubes. Always R2R Tubes/Tubes over SS.

……………………………………

Currently Vintage Tube Preamp (McIntosh mx110z ) with it’s Phono, to modern Tube Amp (Cayin A-88T) to Vintage Horn Speakers.

………………………………………………………………..

I’ve been happy with each combo, but thoroughly/most happy with this vintage tube tuner/preamp tuner(McIntosh mx110z); into fairly modern tube amp (Cayin A-88T), into these vintage (1958 efficient horn speakers).

…………………………………….

 

If new, I always recommend efficient speakers so Tubes can be used/tried someday now or someday.

Resultant lower powered equipment offers not just lower price, but also smaller/lighter/more choices of location (especially if remote control is involved).

My experience would suggest (along with most of the above) that if you are looking for  classic “tube” sound, the tube amp is more influential than a tube preamp. I believe you can get great sound going either way, and there is no single right answer. My experience would also suggest that auditioning gear in your room, with your system with your ears is much more important that reading reviews online. Early on I fell into the trap of buying gear based on reviews. EVERY time I was underwhelmed, because only I knew what I was really trying to achieve in my home. And there is such a thing as system synergy.

Vinnie Rossi , with his Brama line choose :

Preamp. :  tubes  or SS ( you choose )

Amp.        :  SS

There may be a good reason for the amp. to be SS and not tubes.

tube preamp to tube amp

or 

tube preamp to class A SS

Both really good. Some days I like one, other days, the other.

Either can be great. I really like good solid state gear, but I love tubes. So mostly I end up with tube phono, tube preamp, and tube power amp - sometimes with a JFET MC stage thrown in there. But I definitely still like good solid-state gear, or especially hybrid components - it's not like analog vs. digital, where I love analog and hate digital 😂 

In my opinion, the speaker and the room are what you hear and feel the most. With that stated, I have always preferred a high powered, class A amp(in my case a Coda Model 16) paid with a tube preamp/line stage(Aric Audio Motherlode) and tube phono(Manley Steelhead). The Class A and the tube combo give you all the lush dynamics and punch that you need and you are far less limited in your speaker choice in regards to efficiency. 

FWIW I always prefer the smoothness available from a tube amp, not so much a solid state amp. But then I've not tried them all. Interestingly I've recently tried a SS preamp (in lieu of 30+ years with tubed pre-amp and haven't missed the tubed pre as much as I thought I would.  

i think Tubes are better for Jazz and Classical music like Vaughn Williams string works where you can recreate that ethereal sound you get with a live symphony. for Rock its solid state all the way, so ideally 2 amps are needed.

Yes.

I ended up with McIntosh's MA352 to "solve" this dilemma. Never looked back.

The best preamps I have heard have always been tubed (fifty years of experience in high end audio for me). I moved into a tubed preamp 25 years ago, then one by one tubed everything else. 
 

 

i agree, miss my Audible Illusions 3a

@ dreas:   I ended up with McIntosh's MA352 to "solve" this dilemma. Never looked back.

+1 for the MacIntosh MA352

 

My set up is solid state amp then tube pre amp. Also to note is my solid state amp is a quality class A amp. Not A/B or class D but true class A. For me the amp is the sound and the tube pre is the sound stage and dynamics.

My PrimaLuna Dialogue HP Integrated with Genelec 12AU7’s and 8 KT150’s has become my holy grail amp. Having been through countless amps over the years, this setup is Nirvana.

I’m done with tubes altogether. 

I read the question four times and I still don't understand it.

Okay, I am now using a tube preamp and a gan SS amp but it is because of the speakers being very inefficient. I do have a modified ST70 tube amp but the bass is not as defined when I use the Magnepan speakers system. I also have a tube dac but it is not very new and I find that the newer ( cheaper) dac seems to have more layers and wider soundstage. 

I agree with the majority of opinion expressed here: tube/tube if possible. Of the many combinations I’ve used, it’s amazing how vintage circa 1960 tube gear can compete and often best modern gear. Challenges so many notions in this hobby. Current favorite combo: McIntosh C20 > Marantz 8B > high efficiency horns. Fisher 800c excels as does Citation I & II. Tube just rises to the top in my experience. 

Tube preamp for the sound and SS amp for the power and generally cooler running. (Class AB)

How about the hybrid McIntosh MC451?  Can anyone speak to its performance?

Tube/solid préamp. to Tube poweramp ( dac= tube)) Metronome Technologie - Daniël Hertz M6L - Mal Valve 2

Well designed equipment doesn't have the characteristics of either tube or solid state.  Good equipment is neutral.  So it doesn't which type of component is in what position in the chain.  

I happen to have a hybrid phono stage, a tube preamp and solid state amps.  None of those components have any characteristic "sound."  

 

I have recently purchased a Cayin CS55a tube amp, whilst a very cheap amp ( and I paid 1/2 price) its performance I find astounding. I have tube rolled replacing the KT 88's with EL34's and this in may system improves markedly on my Naim Uniti and my Vincent pre / power amp hybrid. It is in my small music room but proves more than enough bass even with 20 watts in ultra linear mode. Speakers are Audio Physic Sitara 25's at 89dB and 4 ohms not exactly easy to drive. 

Solid State much better than tube.

The answer is to use the best of either...a great preamp into any great amp will sound better than a mediocre anything. Tubes are different than SS, we all know that...but synergy is key. I use a tube preamp (Schiit Freya which is either passive SS or tube...always in tube mode unless I switch it to see if the tubes are OK) into either a single ended Dennis Had amp or a Pass XA-25 class A amp...mostly the Pass as I'm lazy, but I put the Had amp in there and enjoy it when I feel like it. Tube amps aren't always better as it depends on the quality of the amp.

Sick of screwing with tubes.  I just want to push a button on a remote and hear music.

I still have tube guitar amps, and have for nearly 30 years, but that's it.  Down to a couple 5-watt babies from the 60s and 70s.  No more 100-watt heads and 4x12 cabinets...

Hunting vintage tubes, maintaining my own tube tester, maintaining a stock of tubes, it's not worth it to me any longer.

My tube gear was Cary and it sounded fine.  Bass is "better" with big SS power.

If you have the budget : go for a Technics R1000. Best amp on the market at any price

In my main system my tube preamp and ss amp gives me the tube smoothness without compromising bass slam and articulation. However, my other vintage system is all tube, and I get very good results from that because the amps are McIntosh MC30s and they are unlike any other tube amps. I’m fortunate to have both, but if I had one to pick for reliability only it would be the solid state amp and tubed pre. 

10 tube Audio-GD pre and GaN 400 Amp...nice combo for powerful sound w/ any speaker.....also use the pre going into a 2.8 watt Decware Zen triode integrated ( use the Decware as an Amp Only) for finesse sound of pure musical enjoyment with high efficient speakers. Enjoy Both. Good luck to you.

I have tube preamp McIntosh C2600 into McIntosh MC611 ss mono blocks. I love the sound. 

 Discussion over, space guitarist has spoken. Back to back stupid posts

Depends on your personal preferences of music choice. By my opinion tube amps couldn’t handle high dynamics of some genres. Metallicas Hardwired Album could be used as a tester. Try to listen to it on tube amp and compare to SS and you’ll understand what I’m talking about. 

Both tube and solid state audio components have their benefits. My tube gear is euphonic sounding, whereas my solid state gear tends to be more analytical.

Hybrid components can offer the best of both worlds. It all depends on what type of other components you’re using in your audio system. In particular, what speakers you have.

 

I have a tube (hybrid) system and a ss system in the same room the differences are huge, the tube system sounds much better, warmer, more magic. The ss system has much less noise and sounds more accurate (true to the original recording). In recording studios like Capitol they use analog mixers and then record to 192khz ProTools digital. Tubes are warmer a lot like your favorite blanket and your Moms hugs. SS is colder, cleaner and more to the point like your rich aunt who has that house that never had anything out of place. 

My professional mixing is SS, my listening for fun is tube. But I'm getting fed up with changing all these stupid tubes and not really knowing when they start loosing their magic it happens slowly and soon enough you are listening to an expensive system that sounds not as good as it should.

So many great hybrids out in the market now, Pathos, Canor, Rogue, Vincent, Unison Research. Take your pick.

Was not impressed with the McIntosh performance or sound. But heck that’s me. 

 

i think Tubes are better for Jazz and Classical music like Vaughn Williams string works where you can recreate that ethereal sound you get with a live symphony. for Rock its solid state all the way, so ideally 2 amps are needed.

This might come as a shock for some but its impossible to design amps or preamps to favor a certain genre of music. If the amp is bad on massed strings it will be bad on electric guitars with heavy drums too.

 

@atmasphere Wrote:

This might come as a shock for some but its impossible to design amps or preamps to favor a certain genre of music. If the amp is bad on massed strings it will be bad on electric guitars with heavy drums too.

I agree. Just as you can’t design speakers for certain genre of music.

Mike

Another vote for the McIntosh MA 352 Hybrid; plus if you decide it’s not for you, you should be able to sell/trade without losing much compared to some other options.

I think what you are driving is the biggest determining factor for whether tube/SS output stage is right for you-- if your speakers are not the most efficient, I think most people would agree that you'll likely be better off with SS with plenty of headroom. If you're driving speakers with at least 92dB or greater sensitivity, then I think you could go either way on the output stage, depending on your preferences. There's really no substitute for an in person demo, ideally on your own or very similar equipment. In the end, there's always going to be the critically important subjective component--- what sounds good to YOU. 

 

For anyone looking to get into tube amplification I would suggest that they start with a tube preamp. Look for one that has a low output impedance so can be matched with either SS or tube amp. Choice of amplifier is highly driven by the speaker in use. I use a tube preamp with either a tube or a SS amplifier. Enjoy both. 

@spaceguitarist : It’s not a good practice to try to speak for others who have different tastes, opinions, and situations than your own. I ultimately trust my ears, not marketing or the opinions of others. Do I take the opinions of others into consideration? Yes, I do. But the final determinant is my own listening. I favor vinyl played through tube equipment because it sounds best to me. I also stream music, and it sounds great, but, to ME, not as great as vinyl (in my system). You are welcome to share your experiences, but telling others their preferences are “wrong”, because you say so is arrogant and presumptuous. Think about what you wrote from the perspective of a reader who has a different viewpoint. It’s offensive. 

I have been a all tube guy for the last 40+ years but I decided to try a SS integrated. I bought a Boulder 866 and could not be happier.   Very musical and incredibly quiet.  SS can be very satisfying. 

McIntosh C2700 into a pair of MC275s. Best system to my ears I've ever heard. No regrets about tubes. 

Use tube only if you prefer Low Fi and enjoy this vintage sound. :)