If you match your components carefully, any combination can sound good.
lectronJH50
134 responses Add your response
$12.5K Bladelius ODEN Integrated Amp š²...š² Itās ALIVE !! https://highfidelity.pl/@main-998&lang=en https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJEt5Mb2zi8 Bladelius is now shipping these to the USA !! They cost a little more in the USAĀ All new ASK Integrated amp out now that is even cheaper !! |
The $6K Bladelius Audio ASK Integrated Amp, this changes everything now ! š² https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdVHG8_Y76M Very Uncanny 3D Sound Like Really Good TUBES TOO ! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWtuf0C54_U Ā This is why these amps Sound SOOO GOOD !Ā Ā |
Tube amps in my opinion are too high maintenance, although they sound good for certain music. In a world of growing shortages, tubes may increasingly become difficult to find and expensive to buy. I like the idea of a tube preamp coupled to a nice solid state amp. Besides, small signal tubes last quite a long time depending on the design of the tube preamp. |
https://www.schiit.com/products/saga-2Ā Under $500 I live close close by. I like more vintage gear, but they make very nice affordable sounding equipment, very nice on there demo floor. Made in USA etc.Ā I have there pricer Dac and their cheap passive sound great!Ā |
@spaceguitarist FWIW there are tube amps that can reproduce those squarewaves and do it properly, on account of having full power response to less than 2 Hz on the bottom end (so no measurable square wave tilt at 20Hz) and response well past 100KHz on the top end. Just so you know. |
No, you are totally wrong. Even the most "high end" tube amps, sold at stupidly high prices : deliver more than bearable distorsion to still be called "hifi" gear. And of course they canāt reproduce square waves (who cares... music isnāt square waves). Not to mention the electricity consumption which is totally ridiculous in our time of global warming and energy crisis. Not to mention wear, microphonic parasites, noise ratio, ... Again : Iām not stating that tube amps donāt sound good : they often do, at least just like any well built amp can sound good (you can easily find as much shitty tube amps as good ones). But this kind of deprecated technology is called LOWFI , not HIFI, for good reasons : it doesnāt provide "fidelity" at 2023 expectations. You could read this funny review from ASR (and trust me if I tell you that ASR is not my cup of tea as I think they understand nothing to audiophile reproduction... but at least if you focus on technical details : itās an information source of reference). Ā Ā
|
@spaceguitaristĀ you regurgitating ASR says all I need to hear from you. |
@spaceguitaristĀ you regurgitating ASR says all I need to hear from you. LOOOLĀ šĀ you did not even manage to read up to the end of my post, and you don't provide any argument that could give any credibility to your opinion : so maybe you just wanted to prove that you're not able to have any opinion on the subject ? Ā Ā Ā
|
@spaceguitaristĀ : If one reads the original post, the poster asks for othersā preferences between two choices: tube preamp into SS amp, or SS preamp into tube amp. This is what is on the table. Those who read the post and wanted to be helpful, answered the question. It has unfortunately been turned into another tube vs SS debate by someone who clearly and obviously has an agenda to disrespect those who use their own two ears as the ultimate measuring tool to decide which comes closest to HIFI (and have chosen tube equipment). High fidelity is described in the Merriam-Webster dictionary as āreproduction of an effect (such as sound or image) that is very faithful to the originalā. Faithful to the original sound from a stereo system is subjective, and measured by most people using their ears. If a person wants to choose the equipment they use based on measurements collected by other electronic devices, they are absolutely free to do so. But that does not mean that those who use their ears are wrongā¦ clearly and obviouslyā¦ because I have heard components that measure well but sound dreadful. Also, it is contradictory to say that tube amplification is āLOWFIā, while admitting that tube amplifiers can āsound goodā. Good sound is the goal in this hobby. And there is only one instrument that can be the final gauge for each individual, and that instrument is the human ear, regardless of any graph or measure of distortion. Out of respect to the OP, Iād like to specifically answer the original question (I too had been distracted by the āagendaā posts!). Iāve tried many combinations of tube and SS, and in my experience a SS preamp into a tube amplifier is my preference. Ymmv |
Ā LOWFI ""can"" sound good as long as the listener is expecting LOWFI : thereās no contradiction. In some cases LOWFI amplification is better, especially with old recordings that are not able to provide good listening experience by themselves but require the amp to add some kind of "body" to the sound (what tube amps are usually doing well with a hudge amount of added distorsion). Anyway : the world of LOWFI fanatics is very small today : 1) electric guitarists (for most kind of music : electric guitar microphones are unable to provide enough "body" by themselves), 2) phonographs and audiophiles tube amps for those who are searching for the good old sound of their youth, 3) some newcomers who believe what marketing says... To come back to the main postās question : tube preamp is total nonsense. What makes tubes enjoyable is second order distorsion at high operating level, preferably in class A operation. But even with this in mind : latest FET FDA are doing better. So the answer is : no tube anywhere if HIFI is expected ! and tubes only at the power stage if LOWFI is expected. |
Iām sorry. I disagree with you. You are completely wrong in much of what you write, and you write in antagonistic, derogatory fashion, disguised as āenlightenmentā. Some of your facts are actual facts, but some of your āfactsā are only your personal opinion, no more than that. And that is 100% fact.Ā |
You should provide at least 1 argument |
I provided information. You chose to dismiss what I (and others) wrote. So I figured it was my writing style, so I modeled my last post more like your style. Inflexible. Youāre not getting the points others are making. Or maybe youāre getting them, but you are unable to accept that other listeners donāt agree (because they are fools, or desire Low Fi). You seem to have some technical knowledge (which has questionable value for this specific thread), but your posts make you appear close-minded. Maybe itās an internal struggleā¦ the āscience mindā sees differences in numbers that should suggest that what the āfeeling mindā hears is nonsensical. Admittedly, that IS frustrating. I feel bad for those who are dealing with that discrepancy. I have heard plenty of live music, and Iāve spent A LOT of time listening to both SS and tube and hybrid equipment. My goal is HIFI, (contrary to what you believe) and Iām getting that from my systemā¦ through vacuum tubes! š¤Æš¤Æš¤Æ |
Iāve had ss for 25 years and now tube amp and dac. I love the sound. To my ears itās light years ahead of anything Iāve heard, which is not much admittedly. I can see tube replacement and related issues growing tiresome though. Iād like to get a separate integrated ss/tube and have them side by side. Does anyone have a spare 5-10k laying around! Lol |
Fortunately you donāt have to give up anything . Occasionally youāll come across a bad tube, it happens. A good quality designed, built and implemented tube component just provides a very natural, believable and emotionally satisfying/involving listening experience. I would say particularly so with a high quality SET/PSET such as yours. Upper tier 300b tubes are expensive . The trade off is their longevity and superb sound. Keep doing what you are doing, it is yielding Ā you much musical joy and happiness. Isnāt that the entire point of why we listen to music and crave the experience? I have had a 101D tubed line stage and 300b SET pairing since 2009. My utter satisfaction and joy with this is as high as it has ever been. I now have added a new DAC which contains 7 tubes. This combination is providing me the best transparency and authentic/natural music presentation Iāve ever heard from my audio system. Unadulterated musical bliss and realism.Ā @earthbound , stay the course. Charles Ā |
People simply like what they like.There are listeners who are thrilled with their SS components and I say good for them. Each of us has to find and obtain what is best on a personal basis. It appears that the Western Electric 300b tubes are serving you well. Thatās good to hear. CharlesĀ |
"One thing to have in mind is that many tubed preamps have a high output resistance requiring careful matching with some ss power amps. Otherwise any combination can be successful, depending on speaker, but i have to agree that generally tube sound is more evident with tubed power amps. " You are absolutely right! I suggested on this forum that we should not go with Tube preamp + SS amplifier, and you are talking the reason now. I only get the opinion from my day to day experiance, and some guys just do not agree with me. Thanks very much to let us know the reason. This is really good message to me. Ā |
Honestly anything can change sound, 2 of the same models can sound different. Transistors vs tubes good and bad of each. Iāve heard worse new transistor amps then better, Heard better tube amps then worse. Modern Solid State preamp low noise floor can sound great with tube power-amplifier vintage or new. Why is Marantz 7t worth less then Marantz 7c tube. I have both, both sound great! Sound signature is close if not the same. 7C takes it further in space, detail, imaging etc. Marantz 7t is damm good, some people upgrade the heck out of them get amazing sounding preamp. 7c bone stock sounds better before doing anything. Is it the tubes? The Caps? Both are made in the US under Saul Marantz and Sidney Smith. They made sure Marantz 7t sounded and performed like the 7c. Is there better made stuff Sure! Tubes are here to stay. Why are records coming back? Film or etc. I do want to build a 300b amp someday, try those western-electric tubes. |
HiFi (High Fidelity) has the origins for the use of it as a term, that is founded in the 1950's. It is a Marketing 'Buzz Word', that has successfully stuck and been adopted in daily use. As in all Marketing 'Buzz Words', there is something a little fantastical about it, the purpose is to have a allure and encourage a certain outcome. I don't know many who are in pursuit of HiFi as the end goal, I do know many that are in pursuit of a musical encounter, through the replay of recorded music, that is an enjoyable entertainment. There does seem to be a vast quantity of individuals enjoying replayed music as a result of a replay of a recorded medium. The electronic designs chosen to achieve the replay is a means to an end, and does not take away from the enjoyment of the experience. If the goal is to have the 'so called' very best of electronics and mechanical function, then this is a road less travelled, and one that will come with endless confrontation about philosophies and design for such devices selected.Ā Ā Ā |
Hmmm...That was a little confusing @pindacĀ . |
@roxy54Ā The point being the challenges / arguments or ideas, that can develop about the equipment selected for use are endless, forums are filled with this type of content, there is not a ubiquitous method in use from all who enjoy the replays of recorded music. The experiencing of a musical encounter comes in a variety of methods, and the entertainment value will vary, depending on how the experience is designed to be created. The enjoyment of being present where there is music to be heard will always prevail. Even if from a Radio in a Car or Alexia. |
@charles1dad ā¦āPeople simply like what they like.ā Ā Very good point. Folks attracted to high end audio do not share a common end point. Some, simply want their system to sound better to themā¦ which, who knows what that meansā¦ recreating a college party experienceā¦ a concert they heard long ago. Also, if you like one genre of music you will get pulled in a certain direction. Some, no directionā¦ just it sounds better. Some folks try to recreate the sound of live music. Ā With all these end goals, it is not surprising companies have sprung up catering to different values. I chased former college / ethereal electronic sound for a ten years or soā¦ my test records would sound betterā¦ but lots of my albums would sound worse (jazz, classical, rock). I started thinkingā¦ āwell, what does the real thing sound like? So, I found outā¦ I hung out at acoustical jazz concerts, stopped when I saw a piano player and listened, attended hundreds of classical concerts. Ā This completely changed my objectives and direction. With each step, all music sounded better (well, except electronic) and over time my system sounded completely outstandingā¦ real. My system now sounds better and more real than going to the symphony (they put in a DSP sound system, which ruined the soundā¦ not all just positive on my side). If all people had the same goals as I do, then most systems would sound very similar and the design goals of manufactures would be the same. But since they are not, they are not. |
There is also the Designs in place where the Aesthetic of the Product, carries a substantial proportion of the costing, placing it at a marketing level that will be referred to as a High End sector of HiFi. Have a look under the hood and the circuit design will in many cases be discovered to be a mediocre affair, and not too inspiring to somebody in the know. A Brand and Attractive Aesthetic, can for some, make the sonic produced from the replay 'seem to be' a very refined presentation. Assessing / Listening with the eyes, is only one part of the discipline required, when evaluating equipment being demonstrated. |
I hang out a lot at a shop that only sells tube amps and preamps (not even hybrid integrated amps are sold there) and I have often seen new people come into the store and have what is close to a religious conversion experienceāthey had no idea music can sound so goodālively, engaging and fun. Ā Of course it is not just the fact that it is tube gear, it is the right tube gear playing the right speakers. Ā I have not seen the opposite: someone falling head over heals for solid state after living with good tube gear. I also have seen good tube amps seemingly work magic with even less than terrific speakers. Ā That same dealer takes in all sort of trade-in speakers. Ā To test them, they are played with some amps you would never couple with such crappy speakers but those speakers can sound amazingly good with these amps. Ā We heard a small, old pair of Polk speakers sound great when matched to Western Electric 124 amps (350 B pushpull amp). Ā |