Question: What are some of your best pieces of advise to someone new to the hobby?
I have a friend who is interested in putting together a system and am putting together a little guide for him, compiling information I’ve found over the years, plus some of my own personal tips and tricks. However, I am by no means the end-all-be-all of knowledge and want to incorporate information, tips, and tricks from the community - however basic they may seem - into a nice reference resource.
Without specifically naming any pieces of gear or brands (this isn’t a product recommendation question), what are some of the biggest tips, tricks, important pieces of info to keep in mind, caveats, etc. that you would have for someone new?
*side note - hopefully this post can also serve as a nice reference point for people in the future, as well!
Get your information from a wide variety of available sources. Do not think more money necessarily means better results. Start off smart but modest and go from there. Take your time and do your homework.
Or go cut to the chase with one of the many quite excellent integrated solutions available at all price points these days. Study up on "Future Fi" , for example: Is this the future of hi-fi? (I think it might be) | Darko.Audio |
@shebuskij The worst possible advice! A totally outdated perspective. Speakers are the most flawed component, despite this fact if the electronics and source are not up to the level of the speakers you have a mess on your hands. This is where the upgrading and changing out gear phenomenon was created by print media 40+ years ago. |
Try to find a trustworthy dealer with a good selection of equipment. Audition lots of combinations. Make your biggest bet on speakers within reason, if you can't afford what you want, wait until you can. Otherwise, you run the risk of buying something that is unsatisfying from day one don't make lateral moves. If you're upgrading, plan on spending twice what the old component cost. there are components that offer Great value but realize that you generally get what you pay for just like in anything else. There may be components that sound better than others that cost three times as much, but I would suggest that is generally a unicorn. you can learn a lot from a forum such as this, I certainly have, but take the know it alls with a grain of salt. Hearing is subjective. If it sounds good to you, that means it's good. and never start a thread about the merits of high dollar switches |
Start with inexpensive gear and set it up in a room best fitted for proper acoustics. Then work the room acoustics with all the necessary acoustic treatments until the inexpensive gear sounds best. Only then move up to better gear. If you do it the other way around you will end up wasting a lot of money on gears that will never be fully satisfying. Like building a house, it all starts with a good foundation. |
@mmcgill829 - what makes a good cable? Cables are surrounded by a lot of misinformation - e.g. people talk about resistance, capacitance and Inductance as being key, which is in fact far from the entire story! Read this thread for some basic knowledge as to ... The two bands that I recommend to people are...
There are other great brands, but these two will get you a nice sounding system for a reasonble cost. Cables are perhaps the most important part of any system and spending money on the right cables is money well spent. Choose wisely and they will be with you for life. But poor cable selsction will cripple the the very best components e.g.
I would start with good speaker cables and then try interconnect cables and lastly Power cables - why?
If you are "handy" you can build some exceptional cables that rival some of the bst TOTL cables from established brands - see this link I have spent around 17 years developing cables, but only in the last 7 years did I actually discover what makes for a very good cable. Hope that helps - Steve
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Yeah, buy the best speakers you can afford, then you'll have no money left for the rest and then what ? Don't spend too much on speakers. Besides, with many expensive speakers half of what you pay is for a nice cabinet and brand prestige. Hearing is not subjective. If something sounds real good everyone with ears will agree. Taste is a different matter. You prefer Stradivarius and I prefer Guarneri, both sound spectacular. |
+1 @noromance The book is like a high-end audio encyclopedia. |
So many things to consider. I agree that the listening room is important — I would love to try Magnapan speakers but my listening room is too small to give them the spacing they need to shine. If you must use the listening room for more than just listening (e.g., living room), and your partner isn’t fond of having equipment dominate that room, then you need to select components that fit within the room without dominating it, There are compromises to be made unless you can afford not to compromise, I think one should determine their budget and then select components that fit within that budget. It makes little sense to spend a ton of money on one item and then have to skimp on the rest. Also, you can buy better equipment used for the same money that lesser equipment costs new. If I were to start over (and I’m fairly new to this and not at all as experienced as many members here), I would probably start with streaming music instead of purchasing “hold in your hand” media. Unless you know that you prefer records or CD’s, or already have a lot of them, I think it is most convenient to stream music rather than buy the turntable and the CD player and the record/CD collection. As time goes on, I find I seldom play records and play CD’s only occasionally. I could have put the money I spent on them into a good streamer. Good luck to your friend and yes, remember to have fun! |
Don't assume that published reviews are right - listen yourself and have a friend do a blind test - they can insert or not insert something into the system and if it doesn't make it sound better to you, you just wasted your money by believing what some writer said about that equipment, likely reviewed in a totally different set up. I have listened to systems of people who have just looked at the latest review issues and cherry picked all the highest rated pieces and strung them together. They often don't sound very good and it is hard to tell them that. |
MMCGill, (1) Decide what type of system they want: separate components (easy to upgrade), integrated amplifier and speakers (simpler but more expensive to upgrade), or even all in one speaker systems (Buchardt Audio A10, Dutch and Dutch 8C, KEF LS X, 50 & 60, Sonus Faber Duetoo, etc.) Once I'm done with my main system next year some time, I'll add a second system.....and it'll probably be a Dutch & Dutch 8C or Buchardt A10, as to what is currently available. (2) Get to know GIK Acoustics. They have excellent room treatments, many of which are not just functional, but also attractive. They also have some software recommendations to help with designing the room treatments, and are all to helpful and freely give advice (3) Cables matter, but no need to go crazy unless your system is extremely resolving. Morrow Audio, DHLabs, Supra Cables, Lavri Cables, Cullen Cables, Zavfino, AntiCables, all make great cables at affordable prices.....and are great for all but high end systems (4) Buy ONLY what you can afford, really really good systems can be had without breaking the bank (5) Audition, audition, audition. Borrow units from dealers and friends, or take advantage of test drives, even "direct only" manufacturers have generous test periods and/or small restocking fees. (6) Unless you have a stack of LPs or CDs sitting around, just start and stay with streaming. Streaming has come a long way over the last 10 years, and provides highly satisfying SQ. Tips: dedicated streamer and NOT PC based, wire directly to ethernet if possible, quality matters...Wiim Pro, Eversolo DMP-A6, and BlueSound can be excellent though Aurender/Lumin/Innuous do deliver noticeable sound improvements (7) Have fun, this is a great part of our hobby; it should be a fun time |
I pretty much agree with @secretguy ; "Pay no attention to forums like this." But I’ll still throw in my two cents, don’t get hung up on finding the best equipment at a specific price point. Audition equipment before you buy. I know that in some parts, there are not a lot of choices, or places to see and hear components. Driving hundreds of miles or flying to destinations (I have an acquaintance who actually flies across the country) is something that you have to decide. I live in a large metropolitan area and have access to a lot of gear but even here, there’s quite a bit of stuff not available and I’m fine with that. If it isn’t easy to audition and repair I’m okay with that. The idea that some other component might be better than the one I just purchased, and getting worked into a frenzy( I know someone like that, afraid to make a decision)) over it is simply a waste of time and takes away the original reason for owning an audio system is to enjoy music. At least that’s what I think. If I tell someone here what I own and they tell me why I did not get some other product they think is better, well I just don’t care. You don’t need books or advice from the person who thinks he’s the "Dali Lama" of audio. So listen, don’t be afraid to like what you like and not what someone else told you to like. Keep it simple. |
I'm with @fuzztone: Speaker placement is #1. Home auditions #2. |
@mapman
Better than Ohm? They must be something special. |
As long as we're giving advice here, my advice to someone who's brand new to this hobby and wants to get their absolutely biggest bang for their buck ... the is pretty bold but bigger than anything anyone has mentioned yet ... is to save your pennies until you can score a nice used Lyngdorf tdai 1120. Of course, you'll need a source also ... but one nice thing about the Lyngdorf approach is the way you can utilize the different optional modules as needed for streaming or phono.
Two other nice things about the Lyngdorf approach is that their Room Perfect software will immediately, and to great effect, remove whatever "room issue" you will have otherwise. And it will make (literally) whatever speakers you decide to use sound as those speakers were meant to sound by the manufacturer.
From there, you can figure out your position on the cabeling issue and save your pennies to improve your sound. But it will already rival a lot of the people's systems who're commenting on this thread. |
Thanks for the question, mmcgill829, Starting fresh in our hobby, I would first consult with a professional...one experienced in tuning rooms for 2 channel stereo and sound studios. I recently established contact with James of GIK Acoustics in adding a diffusor/absorber/bass trap to my studio. Even with much prior tuning, the results are stunningly good. I would also suggest reading "Good Sound" by Laura Dearborn...seemingly dated, but continues to be some of the clearest, useful basic advice available. In print, used copies are also available on Amazon. Nearly 5 decades into better sound, like some have mentioned here, the loudspeaker / room relationship is the starting point. Money spent tuning the room for audio is the most cost effective and sensible way to begin. Once in place, ALL efforts to better your sound will play out. More Peace! (bold print for old eyes) Pin |
I realize that Hi-Fi stores are getting harder to find... But maybe a friend, or a store, will let you bring in the music, and media you want to listen to for auditioning (it will influence your decisions). A serious audio store will have ideas about entry level, after all, they want to see you come back, and back... Audition speakers first they are the biggest percentage of the sound quality, I think, and can be the biggest initial expense. An integrated amp, a decent turntable (literally hundreds of quality NEW turntables for under 1K), then a CD Player, (most manufacturers source from the same suppliers, when they don't you will see it in the price jump). Everything does not have to be new, but use common sense, if you see "no returns accepted", keep scrolling. Then when you get going, upgrade according to your desire. A good Headphone will give you an idea of what can be accomplished. Unless you have run out of ideas on how to spend money and you think Hi-Fi might be the answer, then just throw your credit card at it and bask in your new found glory. |
Focus on good not perfect or accurate. Accuracy and perfection are illusions in this field. Realize that you'll probably never stop wanting more. Most audiophiles are never done building their "perfect systems." It can become an obsession and sometimes you have to step back and change your focus from the gear to music, or learning, or experimenting. It's generally a healthy obsession but it can be frustrating at times. Be prepared to walk away and do something else if it becomes more stressful than fun. When you find out your room is as big a factor as your speakers you might get depressed. It's okay. You'll almost certainly get over it. It's subjective. There's no right or wrong. If you like something, that's probably all that really matters. If you want simple hardware advice - start with speakers, and don't be afraid to buy used equipment from anywhere that you can audition it first. |
I concur with ghdprentice and @stingray26 ... +3 |
It's a hobby and should be fun. Being passionate about your aspirations is part of what stimulates you as a hobbiest. There is no such thing as a perfect system -the trick is learning how to determine which auditory compromise, or compromises, which are ALWAYS a part of the decisions you will find yourself making in this hobby, will lead to what pleases you most and the longest. This hobby can be very consuming- especially of money. |
Listen to as many types of speakers and amps as possible. Horn loaded, open baffle, sealed, ported, electrostatics, multi driver, single driver, high efficiency. Single ended tubes, push pull tubes, high power, low power, Class A solid state, class A/B solid state, single ended solid state. If you don’t know what types systems are avail, and how they sound, it’ll be a long and expensive journey to arrive where you want to be.
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Listening to EVERYTHING is perhaps a good idea at first but impossible for most anyway... Your room and needs will determine the type of speakers... And a speakers set dont sound the same in different room coupled with different components anyway... Read about the way to embed any system and any component optimally in the electrical, mechanical and acoustical working dimensions... Begin with what you own now ...Dont upgrade if not necessary or if you dont know how to upgrade anyway , study and experiment... Learn, study acoustic concepts , experiment with fun or pay for an endless rabbit hole of obsessions for a dreamed "perfection" ... This hobby is about music learning and acoustic experiments more than about upgrades and money...
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Know what you are trying to do. What kind of music do you love? What kind of tech do you want? Is it just 2 channel or do you want theater? Most of all, the room is the room. Understand it and what can and cannot work. There is plenty of empirical data - you can avoid a lot of problems by paying attention. This includes dimension, construction, power and WAF. These are immutable givens - addressing any of them is expensive. Unless you live where home auditions are possible and you can afford it, buy used. Learn how to listen- develop those skills. understand that your tastes will evolve or morph and some assumptions may need to be re-examined. Know that the point of diminishing returns is quickly reached- as the wise man sai, don’t let perfection be the enemy of the good. If you start with good stuff the third or fifth version may not be that much better.,, Finally relax and take your time - a system is part of your life, not your dr focus- least it should be IMO. |
What are your goals? What are your priorities? Where do you want to put this system? What is your budget? Find resources (dealers, friends, clubs, shows) where there are people who understand these questions and what the implications of your answers are and can respect your answers or help you refine your answers then research, audition, repeat and enjoy the journey. |
It is fascinating psychology to see so many rationalize the way they did things or what they purchased/own as the best. It is the rare post of someone admitting error, or ignorance . I personally believe that everything matters, but certainly not of equal amounts. Also no doubt there are diminishing returns. IMHO, items that make the biggest impact on perceived sound are the room and electromechanical devices, ie, speakers and phono cartridges. And balance/synergy…any complex system can only be as good as it’s weakest link. |
i am happy with my headphone/speakers system... It is a low cost one well embedded acoustically,mechanically and electrically... I modified my speakers and my headphones too to reach the acoustic satisfaction minimal threshold which exist as exist a diminushing returns investment principle in audio ... My system price in my acoustic designed corner in my basement cost me well under 1000 bucks... A member here just say to me that i am wrong to trust my ears and tuning process and that i must buy an electronic equalizer because in his opinion all i did is wrong , our ears are deceiver... 😁.... It is not that some people cannot admit their error and wrong doing, it is the fact that they cannot even figure out what they did wrong because they never studied nor experiment and confuse the EQ manual with real acoustic... And they thought that the price tag of the components tell the acoustic experience story... The problem in the world is being able to admit his errors, most people can admit their errors save narcissist and psychopaths; the problem is that most people cannot even figure out how and why they are wrong to begin with then how can they admit anything ? ... Sincerity with ourself go a long way but studies and thinking with experiments goes a longer way... EQ is a useful tool and will never replace Acoustic treatment nor room tuning with resonators for example... Price tag reveal some design quality level but will never predict by itself the ultimate sound experience of someone... We need complex embeddings optimization for that ... 😊
«The problem is once he had admitted easily his recognized errors he missed anyway the sheer numbers of the unrecognized one » My Anonymus scientist wife 👩🔬
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Read first--it will actually help you figure out your goals. Harley's book may be the bible of high end audio but another very useful book on basics is Jim Smith's "Get Better Sound"--i found it helped me focus on the room as being the most important part of an audio system as many have mentioned here (unless of course you're focused on headphone listening only. He isn't solely focused on the room--many other useful principles are discussed in easy to understand terms and style. |
I mentioned acoustic without (s) for years here...I forgot that in english the noun need an (s)... Written in the singular it is more an adjective and refer to "room acoustic" for example... Witten with an (s) it refer to the science "acoustics"... It what was i meaned to say all these years... But many read me as if i was speaking merely on room acoustic... Acoustics , the science INCLUDE psycho-acoustic and neuro-acoustic and not only material acoustic and great Hall acoustic architecture and small room acoustic control and design ... The reason why audiophiles MUST STUDY acoustics concepts in general not only room acoustic is EVIDENT but rarely explained : No sound experience is understandable and describeable without these concepts... Most audio vocabulary refer to the gear system, for exemple "warm" and "cold" are associated to the gear alleged sound properties as with tubes or S.S. or dac and turntables, ( which is preposterous because all pieces of gear differ especially coupled in different conditions or modified ) instead of refering to the "timbre" experience" which cannot be understood anyway at all without understanding the 5 conditions defining timbre in acoustics and their control in a space.... Then most audiophiles as i am, begun to be open completely victim of marketing methods instead of being put on the road to understanding ... Gear had no sound in itself only specific potential characteristics manifested more or less , positively or negatively when coupled with other components and specific acoustic conditions ... Tthe system /room had a sound quality and a synergy making it able to give some TIMBRE impressions ... The same is true for all spatial characteristic of sound and of immersiveness which is the relation between the sound source width and the listener envelopment... No gear possess these characteristics as claim marketing conditioning , only the specific system/room/ears as a whole , working in a specific room for specific ears/brain,... |
Buy what sounds good to you. As others have said; don’t be afraid to buy lightly used gear. Your money goes a lot further. But, also be careful not to pay for the other guy's usage and his time owning the gear. Reach a little on your initial purchases. It should slow down upgrade-itis. And, when you do upgrade, make several jumps (or quantum leaps) up the chain. Don’t get nickel and dimed to death with a never-ending cycle of small upgrades. When you get to "Damn, this sounds good with almost everything I listen to," stop buying stuff for a while and just listen to the music. |
