On one hand I can see high end audio in decline, on the other I see this as a golden age of audio. Recently I've been reading through some of my 1980-90's era Stereophile mags, fears about the decline of audio existent then just as today. There have always been complaints about the high cost of audio, always plenty of equipment out of reach for many.
And don't forget about the used market, internet gives us easy access, and think about the continuing accumulation of purchases that go onto the used market. I'd like to see some data comparing new sales to used, has to be greatly impacting new sales. I could make an argument higher end audio more affordable than ever.
I was an audiophile in my teens. But, I didn't purchase a pair of serious loudspeakers until I was 40. By then, I had a house, children who were past the toddler stage, and a bit of disposable income. I suspect I am not alone. Give the Gen Z kids time. Chances are at least some of them, 5-10%, will discover what a decent audio rig can do for their music. That's enough to keep the industry afloat, I think.
I recall Paul McGowan saying that the universe of real HiFi buyers is about 20-25,000 in the US and shrinking.
Let's face it the younger generations have little regard for quality and even less regard for bespoke HiFi gear. They are in debt up to their gills and have little discretionary income. They are not keen to own homes, or even cars if you believe the consumer analytics. They don't generally long to be rich like my generation did (I'm 63) and they don't care to be married either.
Add to that the quality of the AirPods Max, the Bluetooth boom boxes that sound pretty darn good plus the mid-fi brands being poorly made and you have what we have here today.
I don't know how to remedy this, and I don't know anybody who has proffered a good solution.
What will the lack of these products do to the used market is the question. Many products are all ready higher than they used to be. I’ve seen Palladium ll monoblocks and Aragon 8008 BB amps, each nearly 30 years old selling for $3k and $2k respectively. That’s simply one example of the used market that I’ve observed that’s truly out of whack. These products were available for less than $2k used when they were 3-4 years old. Now they’re 27 years old and selling for more? I don’t get that!
There was a day that you could spend $2k and acquire a very solid audio product. It’s rare to find a quality product at a great price anymore. Well, at least that’s one thing I’ve noticed.
There's not a lot of point to be made discussing what young people today are going to do with their money. Their seniors (you and me) grew up with terrible products and experienced a revelation when they almost accidentally found themselves in a high end audio place. For me it was when a friend and I cruised down to Jacksonville and I heard Dahlquist DQ-10's. Nowadays it is an easy matter to get acceptable audio at low cost, and it's ubiquitous. Also, things are tighter for this generation and the entertainment options broader and widely distributed. How many of us would have gone crazy over audio if we had had computers to play with? We had the opportunity to access audio as an art form, literally. I can see where today's up-and-comers have more things to get involved in, and I imagine some will become audio nuts, but the numbers will be smaller and the days of the revolutionary engineers are probably over. What's out there now is excellent and affordable, making the hobby aspect of it less attractive. One more thing: the quality and diversity of the media. Classical music used to be a widespread thing. Now it is most definitely not, and if you know a young person with any knowledge of such whatsoever of it you are dealing with a music major. That's just one example. Popular music is dominated by low quality artists doing low quality things. And it sells. There are still great recordings made, and the technical abilities are better than ever, but the stuff that makes money, the stuff inputted into it, is mediocre. So who needs fancy equipment when earbuds will do? In the meantime, enjoy what you have and don't worry about everyone else. You can be a niche. It's ok.
It is interesting to me how every commercial has a silver faced 70's era receiver, turntable and speakers in the background. It's considered cool I guess but for looks more than real function. I have a collection of older equipment from the 70's that I still use to this day. All of that stuff is worth 3-4 times what I paid for it. There are also plenty of audio companies trying to capture the retro vibe market with components that have the vintage look. Maybe the younger generation will latch on to that once they get into the working world. I think college kids with a stereo are rare as hens teeth. Polar opposite of my years in school.
This may be a little off topic but I would like to point out. The world has 8 billion people, And from the 1970s to the 2000. The tv brand's were RCA, Toshiba, Panasonic, Quasar, Electrahome, Zenith, Hitachi, and Mitsubishi. Not to mention a number of early MIC brands. So the question I have is with how large the population is now versus then, what drove all the above brands away or to a fraction of what they were?
As I contemplate the audio market I am unsure as to why better quality has gotten so expensive. My frame of reference is televisions. If you look at the price history of TVs against their quality and feature history, it is clear that the quality and features have gone way up as the comparative cost has come down.
The first color TVs were about $500. Today $500 will buy you a very nice quality and size TV, and inflation has driven the value of the dollar down considerably in that time. Now tell me why audio has not followed that path. Solid state audio equipment should not be mega dollars, I will leave tubes out of the discussion for simplicity of the question.
1) High end audio has always been a niche market. I've been buying high end gear for 45 years and I've rarely found any of my friends or acquaintences who were into the hobby like I was. Also, there is no similarity between Apple earbuds and the enthusiast audio market. Apple is a mass market company. Denon and Marantz are the proverbial fly on the elephant's butt.
2) High end audio has been dying ever since I entered the hobby. Oh, wait, it's bigger than it has ever been....
3) New companies have been entering the market and established companies are expanding their product lines. This is not indicative of a dying industry. Look at the Music Direct catalog and tell me that the industry is shrinking and dying.
4) The ultra high end is exploding. We may sneer at speakers and amplifiers that cost $100K but someone is buying this stuff.
5) The value end of the industry is solid and growing. Schiit, Topping, and SVS are excellent examples of companies that are selling tons of very high quality gear at reasonable prices.
6) The chances of Denon and Marantz disappearing are zero. These companies have the most recognizable brands in the industry, they are selling hundreds of millions of dollars of gear, and they have a strong dealer network. Masimo will sell their audio division for much less than they paid for it but it will survive and prosper.
7) I'm running high end gear from the 90's (Krell and Thiel) and I've been to 3 audio shows. My observation is that the state of the art has not improved much from 30 years ago. I've listend to many systems where the cables cost more than my entire rig and the sound did not equal my setup.
8) This is the golden age of audio. There are lots of very high quality components available for reasonable prices, you can stream millions of titles of high resolution music for an absurdly low monthly price, and there has never been more used luxury gear available. But nevermind, the sky is falling.
My kids (30 somethings) have listened to mp3 and bluetooth for so long hard for their ears to hear difference. Just like I grew up with tube sound and then quality ss, so my ears are more accustomed to that. My theory anyway.
Frankly, I'm surprised it's taken this long for some of the big names to be in big trouble. Every time I go to an audio show, I'm amazed at the high prices of gear and wonder how many brands can stay in business. I have a household income of about $150K and have no big debt (house and cars paid off over 12 years now), but I balk at spending the amounts asked for some of this gear. I'm sure most young people are just not able to put out the cash for this stuff when many see home ownership as nearly unobtainable.
Also, the ownership of particular brand really doesn't mean much. Either the current owners or the new owners have the potential to sink or swim. Usually, however, new owners will bring a cash infusion to help save a company on the rocks.
Here in the UK the younger generation are being battered by high prices for flats and houses and other cost of living pressures. New and recently built property has got steadily smaller so space is at a premium.
The high end is coping but for how long is difficult to predict.
As Clinton famously said "It.s the economy stupid"
My guess is that less than 1% of people care about the quality of the sound of music. It’s not that they don’t care about music…it’s just that music is mostly for background while they are doing something else.
I’ve introduced many people to good sound over the years and while they appreciate it… it doesn’t really float their boat.
Then there are the issues of cost and size. Americans in general seem to want smaller and less expensive… look how long it takes to resell big and expensive gear these days.
What are the solutions… that is the real question… I wish I knew.
My own focus is to buy well respected name brands that usually resell easily… but there are no guarantees.
Too many hifi companies. Just go to audio shows they’re all over the place.
Prices went up a lot over past couple years, and they were certainly high then too.
Dealers are challenged because they have to buy everything before they can sell it to you. They are not provided any pieces for free to show customers which is horrifying for them. It means less variety of product to show customers in more places.
Nobody knows what they’re buying when they spend $20,000 on a component. Mystery box.
jay and ocd guy have the right idea but they’re terrible businessman. ocd guy knows a hell of a lot but too negative and just really weird. His products are not really mainstream they’re kind of wacky, put some I think really really good.
Can’t wait for this Industry to hit Amazon for the deliveries of their Products. Especially higher end cables and power cords. Streamers and Dacs Will follow.
The link below illustrates a perspective om current M&A (Mergers and Acquisition) activity and possible increase in 2025 and beyond as the world economic pictures shows some positive pressure. The Bose buyout of McIntosh is not unusual even though it pierces the heart of many. I recall when Masimo Consumer, which is a division of the medical supply company Masimo, purchased Sound United, the parent company of Marantz in 2022. This conglomerate also owns Denon,HEOS, Classe, Bowers and Wilkins, Definitive technology and Boston Acoustic. (Sound United is not invested in developing new BA products). To despair the McIntosh acquisition is, IMO, premature at this time. There is hope. Enjoy the music.
There's an abundance of 'truthful lies' and 'lied truths' running about, and those that feel 'uncomfortable' with a opposite opinion need squelching....to an 'acceptable degree'.....
....do you really like that?
Curious, but not likely to invoke sudden anything here....🤷♂️🤨😏
The audio industry offers nothing for young people to get into the hobby. There are no stepping-stone brands anymore. Manufacturers and many hi-fi enthusiasts consider anything under $3k "affordable." But to a person who just got out of college and probably has $100k in college debt, a $10k system is not within his/her budget. The gear they might afford is pretty much garbage. The only course today is vintage gear other than Harman Kardon, Marantz, Pioneer and Sansui. I recently set up a decent (not super hi-fi but decent) system for my sister-in-law consisting of a Scott 335R receiver, a Sony turntable and two Dayton Audio speakers for less than $300. Is it the equivalent of something that we would consider worthy? Of course not, but it's a beginning. She enjoys it and it serves her purposes. Why do the people on this forum always mock beginner systems? We all had to start somewhere and I doubt if we all bought McIntosh or PS gear as our first stereo.
Lots of negativity in this thread, we should lighten up a bit.
People have less disposable income, so they will spend less on luxury items, hence the increase in sound bar sales. This is not a bad thing, it is a good thing. It means people are still spending money on audio products.
Perhaps when they have more extra cash, they will upgrade to better things.
Earbuds and the like are the perfect solution for young people. They are affordable and portable. This is a good thing since it means young people are putting some priority on listening to music.
Music is meant to be shared. Earbuds are not a permanent solution, since people will want to enjoy the music with others, some of them will want it sound better, some of those will want it to sound much better.
The point is that people are still spending money on audio, and are doing the best they can. When they do better, some of them will upgrade. I honestly do not care if the AVR brands mentioned die. My newish $1400.00 Denon is feature rich and quality poor. They deserve to go out of business imo.
@yyzsantabarbara touched on something I noticed in regard to the younger audiences. They seem more willing to spend larger sums on personal high-end audio, like four figure headphones/IEMs, and five figure headphone amps (I’d love a Zahl myself, but can’t justify the cost).
To their credit, these younger listeners tend to be more open to differing opinions surrounding gear and how it’s implemented in their systems ( even supplemental EQ, gasp!). The headphone community seems to have a lot less gatekeeping, that the traditional 2-channel hobby has in spades. Source: try asking a question about CD players here.
Larger manufacturers could follow the likes of Sony and Yamaha and expand into high-end the personal audio space, rather than attempt to lure in new buyers with cheaply made lifestyle components.
It is quite easy for every bozo and his uncle to sell a speaker out of his garage these days with big margins. In spite of his severe lack of aptitude, he’ll buy drivers from somewhere, slap it on a board and send it to some paid YT reviewer to launch himself (start to look legit outta nowhere).
2)
The greedy old men never give any money to their descendants to help the latter out. Such old men are dumber/have lower aptitude than their descendants actually. But, it was a lot easier to make money back in those days than now.
No surprise. This has been happening since cable TV was gaining popularity. The more forms of entertainment, the less of a slice each one gets. Even now I'd much rather watch a concert video than sit and stare at two big boxes like we did back in the 70's and 80's. But it was either that or watch three channels on TV.
A brand or two may disappear. But I would not expect audio Armageddon just yet.. Some brands will continue under new ownership (like McIntosh). As an aside, it appears that Bose is going to continue to let McIntosh be McIntosh in terms of design and build. I think that is good news.
I prefer to buy American when I can (my DAC [Musical Fidelity] is made in China. Most of the rest of my gear is U.S. made [PS Audio Amp; Aric Audio Pre-Amp; Magnepan speakers; Audeze headphones]
I don't dis folks who buy Chinese made audio. Most of the more affordable gear, and much of the higher end gear is made there. However I don't wring my hands over the fortunes of companies, particularly American companies. that manufacture goods in China, because they can get away with paying the workers there subsistence wages.
I live in N.E.O. as some of the first people who commented on here. I have been to Don Better Audio. It was pretty cool actually. But we have a couple other stores local also. I think Audio Craft in Cleveland. And Sound and Vision in Cuyahoga falls. moved but it is still here. But we have three of us on here that are from this area. So we are around. I have been to Axpona three times lately. So we have the people in this area. I 💬 no the stores were snobby and would never cut deals. That's what caused them to shut down around here.
It is quite easy for every bozo and his uncle to sell a speaker out of his garage these days with big margins. In spite of his severe lack of aptitude, he’ll buy drivers from somewhere, slap it on a board and send it to some paid YT reviewer to launch himself (start to look legit outta nowhere).
Magic word here is APPTIDUTE The bozo I am getting my open baffle speaker is a genius when it comes to sound. He has a pedigree with the world’s most famous music producers and recording artists.
To their credit, these younger listeners tend to be more open to differing opinions surrounding gear and how it’s implemented in their systems ( even supplemental EQ, gasp!). The headphone community seems to have a lot less gatekeeping, that the traditional 2-channel hobby has in spades. Source: try asking a question about CD players here.
Yesterday, the bozo from above lent me 2 of the best headphones in the world to take home and decide which one to get. Today I am listening to the RAAL 1995 $7k Magna and $10K Immanis and it is incredible. The Immanis is better than the $160k 2-channel system that I heard this summer. Not as good as my Yamaha NS5000 but damn close.
I am listening to this with a used $450 Schitt Aegir amp, a $1200 Schitt Mjolnir v3 preamp, and a DAC I will be getting rid of soon, the Schitt LIM. The quality of sound these head-fi guys are getting is nothing to laugh at.
I have the very best headphone amp for these headphones packed up sitting in a box, The RAAL VM-1a. If I put that into the mix and take out the Schitt amp and preamp it would be impossible to sell the amp. I need to sell the amp to buy the phone.
I was talking with the bozo above about head-fi guys vs 2-channel and he also said how open minded and helpful they were. They also tended to be young. There is some resentment to the cost of the uber phones like the 2 I have at home now. However, there are some amazing lower cost phones like the RAAL CA-1a and the Meze Empy.
Mitch Barnett of Accurate Sounds CA is creating EQ filters for the Immanis as I write this. That dude is an EQ genius, but for my ears I will not use them for the Immanis. In this case the EQ are done using Convolution filters which can run in ROON. I use the term genius because how he found all the tragic errors in my used Thiel CS3.7 2-channel speaker. The head-fi guys are all on-board with EQ or open minded about it unlike most hear that eschew EQ of any kind.
Say what you want about Andrew Robinson, but at least he is willing to tell you when he doesn’t like a product, unlike 97% of the audiophile review industry.
The high end has been in a slow motion collapse as evidenced by the explosion of companies exclusively doing 50-100k entry level products.
It has fooled people into thinking it’s a sign of health. There actually has been no explosion, it’s just companies doing less and less volume, trying to cater to the ever shrinking pool of rich boomers with niche products that are the hobbyist equivalent of collectible art pieces.
As time goes by and boomer spending power declines one consequence will be used prices start to fetch a lot less v retail value than before and I think that is occurring now.
Like every year I went to Capital audio Fest on Sunday. It was great, I felt like I was the only one there. Had several rooms to myself like the big Focals. Exhibitors started packing up around 3. Show goes to 4.
Somehow the industry thinks that one can just sell things without advertising or promotion. No posts on forums what to expect, what is new, why it is relevant and why one should care. How are people supposed to know about this show? How is it supposed to attract younger visitors which are future premium buyers?
Why are the shows not structured to show entry level rooms up to ultra premium so visitors don’t get turned off by $150.000 Siltech speaker cables right away.
Unfortunately unless one buys McIntosh it’s an immediate 50% off retail once opening the box. Not even luxury cars devalue that fast. Shows that the value proposition is off.
Why are there not more manufacturers offering upgrades to their equipment instead of planned obsolescence every 2-3 years to give some sense of long term value to the buyer? I.e my 20k Esoteric K01x is now several generations behind. It was bought in 2018. Why could one not offer, DAC board, drive upgrades to keep customers coming back? I would never buy another Esoteric again at this speed of “innovation” in CD players. It does sound good, also not needed at this time..
Last thing is that many of the people building these products are small companies with no succession plans. Why buy an ultra expensive product from someone that is hopefully another 5-10 years able to support the component? Could be solved via properly supported and licensed repair shops across the US.
Many problems today can be addressed. It would take the industry coming together that would help everybody to benefit instead of just increasing prices.
Brands will come and go. That's OK. I do think the high end is likely to contract, though.
Does anyone out there live where the young adults are happy with the affordability of local housing?
More young people live in shared wall environments, which encourages low volume listening. Even for those that can afford a house, there's other lifestyle options like gaming or home theater.
Where are Pioneer, Sansui, Kenwood, TEAC, Nakamichi, Onkyo, Technics, JVC, Sony, all once significant in the mass market now become either niche producers or moved out of home audio entirely. Audio just isn't the same market as in decades past. Streaming, WiFi casting (Sonos and the others), personal audio, TV/video integrations, gaming are the spaces getting the disposable dollars. Some new interest is going to come by way of people coming to the hobby from the Chi-fi entry level products (a good development, IMO) some will come in from HT looking for better quality. It won't be the waves as from the 70s with high quality solid state market coming from Japan making HiFi affordable compared to the previous generation of costly lower-production tube gear.
Comparing my generation growing up in the late 60’s -the mid 80’s to my grandkids generation is all you have to look at. In our day, music was king. Getting together with friends was king and you used music as a necessity. Good Lord, we revolved around music and music systems. On every Wednesday, Friday and Saturday night... every bar in town had incredible live music @ packed clubs. Shipped bands in from multiple States. After the bars closed these home systems was used for groups of music lovers. Sometimes well into the mornings! Why would current kids want a nice system? They don’t do "groups". Most are semi loners. At least comparing to the peace, love and rock and roll that we grew up with. On any given weekend my apartment would have several unknown to me rockers showing up to hear my kick ass system. And this was common. Back then, ALL the youngsters strived to have the best system in town. That just don’t happen anymore. Instead, they do earbuds and play with their phones.
(These comments are aimed at the mainstream "consumer goods" manufacturers. Not the high end and/or niche product manufacturers)
Been ordering and stacking/unstacking boxes in an out of a warehouse for 4+ decades. And, occassionally installing finished goods in customers homes.
The grown ups in the room are putting long-term strategies in place. The opportunists can’t see past the current P&L and balance sheet. I once asked a manufacturer why (the hell) they are putting their products out on the Internet? Response: "We can’t afford to lose the face time. Our competitors are out there so we have to be visual, too." Probably the dumbest answer I’ve even heard. Years ago, upon learning that a very prominent speaker manufacturer had just made the decision to go into Big Box, I called my rep who was enroute to my location and told him to turn his car around and head back home. I also told him that this was a strategy for a company that wants to be sold, not a long term plan. I was correct. And, a less than a year later he was fired and replaced with a "more efficient" (cheaper) way to "service" accounts.. (Didn’t end well for himl).
The industry converted respected hifi consultants who caressed their customers, educated them, and were good stewards of their customer’s money, into brokers, forced to compete with far more leveraged entities when model# and price became king. The "illusion of low price" of Big Box and bypassing sales tax (Internet sales) squashed the little guys. The loss of self esteem on the sales floor was a real issue. Clever marketing blurred the image between "specialty retailing" and mass distribution. As one TV ad once stated: "Our online store offers EXACTLY the same experience as an expensive dealer showroom." Overdistribution killed the "hifi culture" for specialty retailers who could no longer differentiate themselves from Big Box to attract first time, or price-conscious buyers. Our "budget systems" could beat up THEIR budget systems. The customer migrated to the "low cost solution" assuming they were getting the best bang for the buck, and never found out.
I refer to these Big Box and online sales as a "dead cycle". One (or, maybe two) and done. Specialty retail had the integrity to challenge what the consumer was looking for, often taking less money than what the customer was prepared to spend. But, also showed them what was possible with "better goods" and planted a seed for the next purchase. "You’re going to love those new speakers. If you want to try an outboard phono stage sometime, just let me know." Big Box and online doesn’t do this well. Or at all. Enthusiasm trickles down, and so does repeat business, upgrades, add ons, forming meaningful relationships, and cash. After all, "specialty stores" are just over-priced electronics stores with exactly the same stuff as Big Box -- just more expensive.
I remember in the "good ol’ days" that we’d run ads for salespeople and about 40 would show up. It was really cool to work at a hifi store. When hired, these guys/gals would show up on Day One with their own demo material (vinyl, cassettes, or CDs) and have a mature audio vocabulary already intact. You basically took them thru the product line up, showed them how to write a ticket and where the warehouse was. Things have changed. The industry did this to itself. Attempting to prop up an industry (or manfacturer) that is shooting itself in the foot is neither fun, or profitable.
I want to end with a statement that we had vendors who were fearlessly loyal to us and the specialty audio industry as a whole. And, still keeping the faith. Their commitments are still very much appreciated.
Hey all. New to Agon. This is only my experience of course. Having kids in there late 20’s now, I’ve witnessed over the years that they value experiences together over sitting at homes and toeing in to the sweet spot as I have all weekend :) This to mean they love to go see live music together. Big concerts and small - artists they like - festivals with lots of line ups. That costs major these days. Willing to spend big for tickets and food and hanging together. I cannot count the times I filled the car with 13 year olds needing a ride to go to a show. My son is 28 now, in business school ($$$), and still his absolute favorite thing to do is blow off steam at a show with his peer group. What does he listen to at his place? Bluetooth to active mass market speakers and it sounds not half bad. If I asked him point blank you want a 5000 system for graduation he would be nice about it and say, “No offense Pops, how about 2 tickets to Coachella and a hotel room.” Makes sense to me. I have also seen this with young folks who have worked for/with me over years of late. To be honest, I am glad they are connected through music this way if they had to make a choice. For me it was the opposite. When I got my first kit (Nikko receiver, mass Technics table, and Polks) after saving forever as a teen, I listened to the Who with my stoned pals. Bliss. Wish I had seen the Talking Heads in 77 live though.
msbel
Fully understand. The difference is obvious. The shrinking dollar. Kids nowadays must choose their preferences. Let’s back up to 1974. In the 1960-80’s (my generations) we could, and did, just about anything we wanted. We didnt have to choose one or the other. Plus, most of us had hot rod cars. Continual concerts, sky diving, white water rafting, Nascar races. Whatever was your desire. During those decades I worked at what most considered one of the crappy’est jobs in town. Just an entry level maintenance man at a really crappy factory. On those 7 dollars an hour wages I had my own nice all utilities paid apartment. 90 dollars a month. My car payment, which was a three-year loan (on a 2-year-old fully loaded 1973 Corvette) was 143 dollar a month. Health coverage was never an issue, as my union at work supplied health insurance and life insurance as part of your union dues. Every Wednesday, Friday and Saturday nights we partied till sunrise which took a fair amount of pocket change. But there was money left over for those kick ass stereo systems so you could drag the entire bar back to your house at closing time. Modern kids don’t have much of a chance. Hell, they can’t afford the hot rod, let alone anything else. The income to wealth gap has risen to where only the wealthy can live like we did "back in the day". Its sad. I was so lucky to be born a boomer...
Same here. Off topic (kind of) on the hot rod side, I worked for Motor Trend for years back in the day (we owned Hot Rod as well), and saw first hand the pride of a kid who scoured the US to find that rig. Then they would bring them over for a rebuild/photo shoot for the mag after coming by earlier or sending in photos, and the editors and HR shop freaking out that some kid found a rusted out El Camino in a backyard. Those kids became life long devotees to our brands because it was all about community. Collectors market took over and that was the end of that.
Then we were taken over by KKR and renamed Primedia, which interestingly owned Stereophile at the time. What happened? Paper stock went to below newspaper quality, photos washed out, no more glossy covers, shtty web sites (to this day - not a good look), and just bombed. The anticipation magic was gone (IMHO).
Having worked in digital content since 1992, we cannot blame digital entirely. Niche advertisers bailed due to ridicules ad rates, and the big guns bought all the space. Google threw YT out there that years later would pay anyone who drove views and affiliate links - no vetting. Purely a numbers game. Kids today know a shill when they see it.
I learn more in this forum in a few days than I ever will at a dealer (bless them) or YT vid. A you know, forum post tech has been around for more than 30 years - Reddit built their entire platform on it.)
Point is (for me), it is more about the community than the gear that drives sales at the end of the day, so there is hope if these holding companies at least had some enthusiasts - they don't. KKR did not have one dude who owned a Hot Rod that I was aware of - not one. Don't forget that holding companies are not entirely at fault - someone got rich cashing out their brand, were going bankrupt anyway due to not paying attention, and became takeover targets vs. disappearing entirely. This is what happened to us.
All of this is my from purely my POV. I was that dude that chased 1st gen ESL's, 8B's, Eico's, Merrill's and other hazardous materials - so NO expertise on exotic gear these days. Now just a humble system I am able to live and tinker with, and rap with fellow audio enthusiasts about gear and basketball. In-market? Soon :)
msbel
Quite a story. And interesting. Thanks
Until 2017 when I retired, I spent weekends inside a NHRA Super Stock'er. 25 years' worth of chasing Wallys. I won't contaminate the thread with a bunch of car talk... but take a ride with me.
fact number 4 : in a crumbling unstable world the young look for easy and light audio affordable components...
Fact number 5 :
Improved technology at very low cost which did not exist before revolutionize the traditional market...
Fact number 6 :
the internet accessibility of information about acoustics among audiophiles makes the high-end products less and less attractive because S.Q. result from knowledge not from marketing, result from basic common knowledge applied not from costlier upgrade which are not always a real new technological improvement anyway .
Fact number one: nobody NEEDS hi-fi.
Fact number two: hi-fi systems costing more than $10,000 are Veblin goods.
Fact number three: fidelity is only a relevant concept when listening to acoustic music such as classical or vintage jazz.
if Andrew Robinson's name keeps coming up: he is very smooth... on camera
not on camera he is an arrogant thin skinned bully. But that's just what I experienced in the comments several times.
Back to the subject:- re @deep_333 if I get old, I will sure give away everything I can. It better be enjoyed by someone(s) long before I am gone :)
Apparently, Robinson sunk his financial wellbeing due to awful low value hifi purchases and had to move to the sticks (catch a fish/squirrel for dinner or go hungry, etc). It's quite possibly the wife who manages the finances now and keeps the lad above water.....At the least, he's not some vile hillbilly, i would categorize him as just the avg hifi nerd, thinks he's more socially polished than he actually is.
Hey. That’s you in there ya? Awesome. Love the lift and dial going vertical flat in a second and a half. Now if we just had those led red leds on the lower dash with double gauges on audio gear - well I am in. Bravo - thanks for sharing. Very cool.
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