On one hand I can see high end audio in decline, on the other I see this as a golden age of audio. Recently I've been reading through some of my 1980-90's era Stereophile mags, fears about the decline of audio existent then just as today. There have always been complaints about the high cost of audio, always plenty of equipment out of reach for many.
And don't forget about the used market, internet gives us easy access, and think about the continuing accumulation of purchases that go onto the used market. I'd like to see some data comparing new sales to used, has to be greatly impacting new sales. I could make an argument higher end audio more affordable than ever.
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I was an audiophile in my teens. But, I didn't purchase a pair of serious loudspeakers until I was 40. By then, I had a house, children who were past the toddler stage, and a bit of disposable income. I suspect I am not alone. Give the Gen Z kids time. Chances are at least some of them, 5-10%, will discover what a decent audio rig can do for their music. That's enough to keep the industry afloat, I think.
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I recall Paul McGowan saying that the universe of real HiFi buyers is about 20-25,000 in the US and shrinking.
Let's face it the younger generations have little regard for quality and even less regard for bespoke HiFi gear. They are in debt up to their gills and have little discretionary income. They are not keen to own homes, or even cars if you believe the consumer analytics. They don't generally long to be rich like my generation did (I'm 63) and they don't care to be married either.
Add to that the quality of the AirPods Max, the Bluetooth boom boxes that sound pretty darn good plus the mid-fi brands being poorly made and you have what we have here today.
I don't know how to remedy this, and I don't know anybody who has proffered a good solution.
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I miss Oldsmobile, I'm finishing restoring my IH Scout II, next will be a 1968 Olds Cutlass Convertible - love that car.
I'm also looking for a turntable, have an old Dual, thinking of getting a VPI. I'm not done with this hobby either.
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What will the lack of these products do to the used market is the question. Many products are all ready higher than they used to be. I’ve seen Palladium ll monoblocks and Aragon 8008 BB amps, each nearly 30 years old selling for $3k and $2k respectively. That’s simply one example of the used market that I’ve observed that’s truly out of whack. These products were available for less than $2k used when they were 3-4 years old. Now they’re 27 years old and selling for more? I don’t get that!
There was a day that you could spend $2k and acquire a very solid audio product. It’s rare to find a quality product at a great price anymore. Well, at least that’s one thing I’ve noticed.
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There's not a lot of point to be made discussing what young people today are going to do with their money. Their seniors (you and me) grew up with terrible products and experienced a revelation when they almost accidentally found themselves in a high end audio place. For me it was when a friend and I cruised down to Jacksonville and I heard Dahlquist DQ-10's. Nowadays it is an easy matter to get acceptable audio at low cost, and it's ubiquitous. Also, things are tighter for this generation and the entertainment options broader and widely distributed. How many of us would have gone crazy over audio if we had had computers to play with? We had the opportunity to access audio as an art form, literally. I can see where today's up-and-comers have more things to get involved in, and I imagine some will become audio nuts, but the numbers will be smaller and the days of the revolutionary engineers are probably over. What's out there now is excellent and affordable, making the hobby aspect of it less attractive. One more thing: the quality and diversity of the media. Classical music used to be a widespread thing. Now it is most definitely not, and if you know a young person with any knowledge of such whatsoever of it you are dealing with a music major. That's just one example. Popular music is dominated by low quality artists doing low quality things. And it sells. There are still great recordings made, and the technical abilities are better than ever, but the stuff that makes money, the stuff inputted into it, is mediocre. So who needs fancy equipment when earbuds will do? In the meantime, enjoy what you have and don't worry about everyone else. You can be a niche. It's ok.
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It is interesting to me how every commercial has a silver faced 70's era receiver, turntable and speakers in the background. It's considered cool I guess but for looks more than real function. I have a collection of older equipment from the 70's that I still use to this day. All of that stuff is worth 3-4 times what I paid for it. There are also plenty of audio companies trying to capture the retro vibe market with components that have the vintage look. Maybe the younger generation will latch on to that once they get into the working world. I think college kids with a stereo are rare as hens teeth. Polar opposite of my years in school.
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This may be a little off topic but I would like to point out. The world has 8 billion people, And from the 1970s to the 2000. The tv brand's were RCA, Toshiba, Panasonic, Quasar, Electrahome, Zenith, Hitachi, and Mitsubishi. Not to mention a number of early MIC brands. So the question I have is with how large the population is now versus then, what drove all the above brands away or to a fraction of what they were?
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As I contemplate the audio market I am unsure as to why better quality has gotten so expensive. My frame of reference is televisions. If you look at the price history of TVs against their quality and feature history, it is clear that the quality and features have gone way up as the comparative cost has come down.
The first color TVs were about $500. Today $500 will buy you a very nice quality and size TV, and inflation has driven the value of the dollar down considerably in that time. Now tell me why audio has not followed that path. Solid state audio equipment should not be mega dollars, I will leave tubes out of the discussion for simplicity of the question.
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1) High end audio has always been a niche market. I've been buying high end gear for 45 years and I've rarely found any of my friends or acquaintences who were into the hobby like I was. Also, there is no similarity between Apple earbuds and the enthusiast audio market. Apple is a mass market company. Denon and Marantz are the proverbial fly on the elephant's butt.
2) High end audio has been dying ever since I entered the hobby. Oh, wait, it's bigger than it has ever been....
3) New companies have been entering the market and established companies are expanding their product lines. This is not indicative of a dying industry. Look at the Music Direct catalog and tell me that the industry is shrinking and dying.
4) The ultra high end is exploding. We may sneer at speakers and amplifiers that cost $100K but someone is buying this stuff.
5) The value end of the industry is solid and growing. Schiit, Topping, and SVS are excellent examples of companies that are selling tons of very high quality gear at reasonable prices.
6) The chances of Denon and Marantz disappearing are zero. These companies have the most recognizable brands in the industry, they are selling hundreds of millions of dollars of gear, and they have a strong dealer network. Masimo will sell their audio division for much less than they paid for it but it will survive and prosper.
7) I'm running high end gear from the 90's (Krell and Thiel) and I've been to 3 audio shows. My observation is that the state of the art has not improved much from 30 years ago. I've listend to many systems where the cables cost more than my entire rig and the sound did not equal my setup.
8) This is the golden age of audio. There are lots of very high quality components available for reasonable prices, you can stream millions of titles of high resolution music for an absurdly low monthly price, and there has never been more used luxury gear available. But nevermind, the sky is falling.
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My kids (30 somethings) have listened to mp3 and bluetooth for so long hard for their ears to hear difference. Just like I grew up with tube sound and then quality ss, so my ears are more accustomed to that. My theory anyway.
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SNS didn't know anyone here bought Chinese electronics since Oppo. Guess I just found a person who does.
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Frankly, I'm surprised it's taken this long for some of the big names to be in big trouble. Every time I go to an audio show, I'm amazed at the high prices of gear and wonder how many brands can stay in business. I have a household income of about $150K and have no big debt (house and cars paid off over 12 years now), but I balk at spending the amounts asked for some of this gear. I'm sure most young people are just not able to put out the cash for this stuff when many see home ownership as nearly unobtainable.
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Also, the ownership of particular brand really doesn't mean much. Either the current owners or the new owners have the potential to sink or swim. Usually, however, new owners will bring a cash infusion to help save a company on the rocks.
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Everybody knows about how some of the top components at Marantz are made in a special facility in a premium fashion kinda like Klipsch RF-7's right?
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During Covid, I watched the price of a JL Audio F113 go from 4K to 5K to 6K in three months. 50% increase in price. Not worth it.
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Here in the UK the younger generation are being battered by high prices for flats and houses and other cost of living pressures. New and recently built property has got steadily smaller so space is at a premium.
The high end is coping but for how long is difficult to predict.
As Clinton famously said "It.s the economy stupid"
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My guess is that less than 1% of people care about the quality of the sound of music. It’s not that they don’t care about music…it’s just that music is mostly for background while they are doing something else.
I’ve introduced many people to good sound over the years and while they appreciate it… it doesn’t really float their boat.
Then there are the issues of cost and size. Americans in general seem to want smaller and less expensive… look how long it takes to resell big and expensive gear these days.
What are the solutions… that is the real question… I wish I knew.
My own focus is to buy well respected name brands that usually resell easily… but there are no guarantees.
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Too many products in a hifi companies lineup.
Too many hifi companies. Just go to audio shows they’re all over the place.
Prices went up a lot over past couple years, and they were certainly high then too.
Dealers are challenged because they have to buy everything before they can sell it to you. They are not provided any pieces for free to show customers which is horrifying for them. It means less variety of product to show customers in more places.
Nobody knows what they’re buying when they spend $20,000 on a component. Mystery box.
jay and ocd guy have the right idea but they’re terrible businessman. ocd guy knows a hell of a lot but too negative and just really weird. His products are not really mainstream they’re kind of wacky, put some I think really really good.
Can’t wait for this Industry to hit Amazon for the deliveries of their Products. Especially higher end cables and power cords. Streamers and Dacs Will follow.
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Fact number one: nobody NEEDS hi-fi.
Fact number two: hi-fi systems costing more than $10,000 are Veblin goods.
Fact number three: fidelity is only a relevant concept when listening to acoustic music such as classical or vintage jazz.
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bruce +1
That was very refreshing and most appreciated.
(not to mention, succinct)
All the best,
Nonoise
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