in looking at your system pics, and if you have that kind of money, i would look into adding a dedicated room.
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I have always believed that given what I know now is that I would rather have a top notch system in a large walk in closet than a big system in an big common area. But it can be a small system in a large area as well.
Assuming you have no choice of location: there are additional corollaries. A carefully “right sized “ system placed in your venue could sound fantastic. So, if that is the space, much smaller speakers with a small sub and top quality electronics could be a fantastic system.
The advantage of a “smaller” system is that it can be higher quality components because less power and smaller speakers can be involved. We can talk about this more. But I would look at some really high quality stand mounted speakers… like Sonus Faber Olympica, and an Audio Reseach Vsi75 integrated amp. The Aurender N10 is great. You could go for a small subwoofer later. Anyway, the point is carefully chosen and appropriately scaled and you can have a simply stunning system. The problem can be trying to put “big and powerful” stuff in an inappropriate setting. You want higher quality / appropriate sized equipment. | ||||||
@backdoor , I don't think you need to spend $35K to get a nice upgrade by addressing your room. You don't need to replace it either. I would recommend getting a room kit from www.sonitususa.com. Easy peezey, lemon squeezy. The owner is Anthony Grimaldi and he is an authority on acoustics. The kits makes it so easy a chimp can do it. I followed Anthony's acoustic "recipe" before I knew he had kits, you can see the pics in my system. If I were starting over it would have been easier to just get the kit. He has kits for 2 channel as well as HT:
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while room treatments can make a great improvement in the sound.....i think you have to look at the bigger picture here when it comes to this and this is the OP better half. I highly doubt she is going to let him do this. there was a time ( at another house ) where i had the system in the living room and i told her that members talk about room treatments and how it helps the sound, and she was perfectly fine with panels on the walls......it was when i mentioned hanging panels from the ceiling is where she drew the line. my other half is ok with panels on the walls....but how many times have we all read on here that panels are not allowed on the walls due to the other half not accepting them ? honey, its ok if you want to be in this audio hobby and spend all this money on equipment to listen to music, but heaven forbid you do whats next. to me, it just doesnt make sense. | ||||||
Kota I will look into the room treatment kit you speak of. With the right decorative panels it might pass. It will be interesting to see where Anthony will put them with the furniture in the room. Right behind my listening position is a window with a fairly heavy curtain so the ceiling and side walls are probably all that could be treated. I have known for a while that room treatments were necessary. The panels I have were an experiment that I thought helped to a degree. I suspect, like Riley, that the ceilings might not fly. | ||||||
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we area legacy dealer
we would recommend not bi-amping but moving into one really good power amplifier such as a coda .8
also upgrading to a better server we did a recent shootout between an aurender N20 and our 432EVO aeon and the Aeon was far better sounding the aeon produced a far greater soundstage also was more musical and engaging
Aso adding isoacoustics footeers will make a nice improvement in soundstaging and bass definition
dave andTroy audio intellect NJ legacy, coda, isoacustics, and 432EVO dealers | ||||||
@audiotroy , in your profile you have a link to your system but its empty. I would be curious as to your system(s) can you please post it in the virtual systems area? I appreciate it, thanks. | ||||||
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Backdoor What are you hoping to gain? $35k is a lot of money, even to those that don’t have a hard time pissing it away. Not a fan of DSP for a two channel set up - home theatre, sure. I’d suggest, because I suspect you’ll get a lot out of it is buy Paul McGowan’s new book and associated SACD, The Audiophile’s Guide, The Loudspeaker before your drop that kind of money. The book will not land your speakers in the exact placement but I bet it will get you a lot closer than where you are now. Next, and only after you get the placement and location of your equipment right, then maybe some room treatment if your room allows. There’s many great companies that have nice looking stuff such as Vicoustic and GIK Acoustics. You go through these steps, $58 for the book/disc and maybe $2k in sound treatment then if you’re satisfied maybe get a pair of REL Subs and see how that goes. Depending on your room size, maybe two REL S8/12’s $6k for the pair. Probably improve what you have, a killer system for an additional $8,058 and keep the rest in the bank.
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Backdoor, there is a lot of great information here. In looking at the pictures, am I correct that the floor is tile or treated concrete? If that is the case, I'd do the following. (1) Get a nice thick wool area rug that fits the space, and get a 1/2" acoustic carpet pad; easy to find with a Google search. This should get spousal approval, as you can let her pick out the rug. Cost $1,500 or so? (2) Acoustic panels would be a great addition, but not the standard ugly panels. GIK Acoustics have great acoustic panels and bass traps that actually look good. Cost $1,000 or less (3) Consider the smaller speaker recommendations, as your electronics seem perfectly fine. I replaced my amazing Thiel CS3.6 large floor standers with a pair of Buchardt Audio S400 MKII standmounts, and a system that worked for them. The system is much more fitting for the space, and sounds incredible. For the remaining $33,000 you'd have your choice of incredible stand mounts: Fleetwood Deville, TAD, Fyne Audio F1.8, Magico A1, blah blah blah | ||||||
Do you have a space to build a dedicated room or an unused room that would work? Don’t assume your larger speakers won’t work in a smallish room. My room is considered small but my Avior ii speakers sound amazing in it. I had Jeff at hdacoustics design the room and I built it. If you have a room already built that might work I highly recommend consulting with Jeff. He is very good and very reasonable price wise. Good luck! Ron | ||||||
Bigkidz If you were me and you had my gear what component would you start with? What order would you upgrade? I would rather not do it all at once. Thanks. Ronbo Currently I don’t have a room. We have built a large porch and a sunroom lately so it may be too soon to add another room. I have an idea where we could extend our garage leaving space to build a room at the back of the current garage. That would probably be the best scenario. Contemplating that move. Thanks for the name. Also what are the dimensions of your room? | ||||||
backdoor, you wrote "Vthokie the room is actually carpeted. Pretty plush carpet actually. Knowing that and also that this room is really not that small (18x24) would you change your recommendation in any way?" (1) Since your listening room is not going to change, you should treat the room first.....it will without a doubt help any and all changes that you do or do not make. I am by no means an expert in this area (I have no professional experience), I spent 3 months researching the subject prior to making any changes....and tried a few different rugs before settling on the below (2) I was a late adopter in "room treatment", I actually ignored it while building my system. I saw countless posts about "treating your room", and finally decided to give it a go. I have to admit I should have done the room treatment much earlier in my process, and it was EASILY the equivalent of upgrading one or two components. (3) Well it's at least worth looking at what kind of carpet you have, and if you have a pad that is acoustically absorbent. The best carpet package is: made of thick wool at least 1/2" pile, has an "open" cotton/wool backing (no polyester sealant or fibers, and a 1/2" pad that is acoustically absorbant. That combo is not cheap, in a room your size it might be $4,000 or $5,000 installed. If your current carpet is polyester, nylon, or olefin with a similar sealed backing (which most carpet installed in homes is) you can expect an absorption level of 25% to 30%. A nice 1/2" thick wool carpet with open backing and an absorbant pad should produce 50% to 70% reduction. (4) I have tested your Aurender and Holo Audio May KTE DAC in my room and system, and IMO they are not limiting factors for your system. The other equipment I have no experience with. (5) I still believe you should be able to test drive some great speakers to see how they pair with your room (after you treat it), I do think an amazing pair of stand mounts would be worth an audition, and might be more flexible | ||||||
The method for getting the best from $35K would be to add to the Real Estate, if a addition can be had for that outlay. The method for getting the worst from $35K would to be spend it all over a short duration and on New Model Equipment. With this type of Budget there are substantial quality used products that can be considered, from Brands that other Competitor Brands more expensive New Models, will struggle to match in SQ. The performance that can be attained from a used item, at a very attractive VFM and the potential that the depreciation is already maximum, leaves a lot of remunerated funds to replace the original purchase price at a later date. I would be much happier having a Item that WOW'ed others and then myself and sold after a few years of my ownership as a 5-10% depreciation, as it is still remaining sought after in the HiFi community. Maybe a Appreciation in value is being realized, as has with many of my purchases. This would be better for my mental health, than purchasing New and when the resale time comes, it is a item not sought after and a 50%+ depreciation is to be met. It is a Hobby after all, and upgrades does not necessary mean a New Off the Shelve Device, which might be simply a re-jacketing of a Older Technology is the requirement to improve on a already owned device.
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Pindac thanks for the advice. I have purchased used in the past and I agree dollar for dollar it’s better than buying new. By doing that I might be able to get into some arc equipment or some other high end amplifier and preamplifier so I think that is very good advice. I’ve also got a plan to build onto the back of my garage, and maybe if I can do that I’ll have a dedicated room which would be the best thing I can do per the advice I’m getting on this thread. Thanks again you’ve been quite helpful. | ||||||
1) Speaker placement 2) Amp 3) Preamp 4) Speakers 5) DAC and room treatments.
Very few speaker models have been intentionally designed to be placed against a wall, but most "audiophile" speakers should not be against the back wall - should be pulled into the room and then moved trial n error (including toe-in) until sonically satisfied. If you are unable to move your speakers into a satisfying sonic location, then perhaps a nearfield or a desktop system would be better sonic choices. |
