I recently Purchased a new pair of Dynaudios. The floor model I auditioned were 'Made in Denmark' but the pair which was shipped out by the dealer was 'Made in China'. They are still boxed. Whats should I do:
1. Swap with the showroom floor model (they were probably a yr or 2 old)
2. Unbox and use my 'Made in china' pair ?
My main concern here is the quality of the product from China. Resale values.
I realize this is a few days 'late' and a bit too long, but I just haven't had the time to reply until now.
The OP has asked if the value will hold as well as 'other' Dyn's made in Denmark.
--TLDR; - The answer is no, they will not. Just look at the values of the newest Contour line vs the 'older' Contour line. - The 60's are just not holding their value the same. Whereas my 'older' Contours are still increasing in value.--
I have had Dynaudio products for the last 25 years. Currently I have 3 systems in which all 3 have Dyn's at the end of them. They are all Contour series prior to 2014.
I am also in the process of trying to find C4's MKii or Evidence for my Main system (All prior to 2014).
Dynaudio was purchased in either 2014 or 2015 by a gentleman from the Bay Area who is Chinese. (His ethnicity matters not) - Whenever this happens the new owners always think they can cut costs somewhere, and that is exactly what they did. They introduced what they claim are 'better' drivers in newer cabinets. - ALL RUBBISH. I am not saying they don't sound good, I am saying they sound very different from the earlier Dyn's. And, crucially, all of the Dynaudio fans prior to the exchange know it because we have ears. My dealer that I have been using for ages has actually dropped Dynaudio as a result.
The drivers in the newer series are actually smaller and they claim better. They are also voiced different. I have only heard this on the Counters and not the new Confidence line, but from the other Dynaudio people I know who have tried them all agree. The newer ones sound good, But they have lost the Dynaudio magic.
I don't know of anyone who I have been associated with that have Dyn's over the years that have tried the newer series that have kept them. Every one of them have swapped back over to the older series when they could find them.
That should tell you everything you need to know.
Appologies for the late reply, and I hope this helps
If the price between the made in China speakers and the made in Denmark speakers remained the same, who benefited? Clue, it wasn’t the consumer who benefited from the lower cost of manufacturing.
As others have mentioned, many quality items manufactured/produced in PRC, depends on quality demanded by company outsourcing.
And, oh by the way, nearly every audio component is falsely advertised as product of whatever country, you'll find PRC and various other nation's components within all. Purity in one's sense of values/principles is violated by one's very existence in this material world..
If the concern is a resale value in the future, it could be the issue, because for sure there will be more China originated speakers than made in Denmark ones. Floor / display pair should have discount, you may try to negotiate.
I’ve seen very good and very bad things PRC made, for example all Apple products I have are made in China, no complains!
Thought he was buying Made In Denmark,got Made In China
return them and get the Denmark made Model IF it is still available.I am sure the price paid was for the Denmark Model.Resale will be impacted.If a discount is offered then maybe keep them?
"own four customs, a Weigle, Landshark, Rob English, and Speedvagen."\
Nice! Add me to the short list of people who care about Dynaudios ( I own the Heritage Specials and the Focus 160s ) and steel bikes. Nothing custom in my stable yet, but my daily driver is a Masi 3V, built in the velodrome in 1984 by Alberto Masi (it would seem ) and now restored and repainted by Joe Bell. I've also just built up a Coppi Lugano with Genius tubing. Both have modern Campy Athena groups. If / when I go custom, it'll either be a Speedvagen ( congrats! ) or a Bishop.
As for the speakers, I am sure I paid a premium to have my Heritage Specials built in Denmark, but that was a large part of their appeal for me. Transparency matters.
Hey....here's a list of companies you can avoid if MIC is that big a concern for you.
Granted it only represents 1% of American and other countries with business ties in China, but, it's a start.
Do what u think is right! All of us will have a different answer, etc.
we own 2 pair of Energy RC-70 speakers. 1 pair made on china, other in Canada.
have switched them so many times, no difference in sound, had the drivers all pulled out to replace a crossovers on the Canadian pair.
Cabinets are the same, sealed woofs and tweeter, same!
Both sound godlike, I will not part with them, unless in can get a pair of acoustic energy ae520, Or BIC Realta Venturi. B and w 800 series w 15” woof from mid 90’s, those had some wallop in the low end”
I started in the bike industry in 1989, met Gary Klein at his Chehalis, WA, "factory" in 1988, owned the first neon green Klein Pinnacle, a custom Land Shark, Wicked Fat, IF Deluxe and Davidson Impulse show bike, among others.
😆😜
@tablejockey not sure I would classify the steel/ti/aluminum frame business in the US as boutique anymore. Like LPs, it seems to be having a resurgence of late, IMHO, even as some of the legends (Ted Wojcik, etc.) retire
GoerTek – a consumer electronics company based in China – has announced it has acquired the majority of shares in Dynaudio (in 2014), the high-end speaker manufacturer founded in 1977. THEY OWN Dynaudio. Maybe they should change the name to "Chinaudio" but of course they won’t as long as they can continue to trade on the popularity of the original brand name. This happens (and has) to many once great companies.
That they choose to manufacture in cheaper communist China is their decision to help THEIR bottom line, and so they can compete with all the other companies making $500 to $5000 speakers there.
Are they upholding the original quality? Maybe, maybe not. Heck, it might be BETTER.
I note that more than one consumer has had issues with woofers rattling on Dali (Danish Audio) Oberon 9 speakers ($1250 each) that were made in communist China. This has given me pause about buying them for sure.
If it bothers you, send them back, get a refund, and see what else is out there.
If it bothers you now, it will forever bother you, and be a lingering, festering issue, no matter how "good" you think they sound.
Or you could print out some "Made in Denmark" stickers and put them over the "Made in China" ones and call it a day.
While concern about where a particular product is made may not be in itself racists, it does show either internal prejudice or concern with other's prejudices.
I don't doubt for a minute I could find mistreatment of certain peoples, or some unfair practices in every country on this earth. I'm sure I've purchased items of all sorts from manufacturers and countries that engage in harms to some people. One could measure one country against another in making this choice which totally ignores the individuals and/or single manufacturer in equation. For instance, I could purchase product from a country I prefer, yet from individual or manufacturer that mistreats people. I could also purchase from less preferred country from individual or manufacturer that treats people well.
Do people seriously believe all citizens/companies from any individual country are all uniformerly bad or good? Are those so focused on audio equipment country of origin as concerned about all their other purchases? I presume every single individual on this planet has purchased products from entities that have caused harms to others. How does one draw the line when these products so ubiquitous?
sethbowers and laoman: Just because somebody doesn't want to purchase a product made in a certain country, doesn't mean they are necessarily racist.
My Asian wife and her whole family have no love for anything China. Nor does my my best friend, who happens to be Asian, of nearly 40 years. Are they also "racist"?
I don't want to purchase anything made in Russia. Am I now a "racist"?
Several of my close friends only purchase Toyota's. Are they "racist"?
Stop being part of one of the biggest problems in this country by looking at everything through the lens of race. FFS
Now Jakeman's statement on China's nuclear capabilities may be misinformed, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's a racist.
Anyway, if the OP wants to limit his dollars going to help the economy of a particular nation, that's his choice. That's the free market. If he likes the product, but would prefer the Danish made models, no biggie. He can see if his dealer would like to swap out for their demo models. By that same token, if someone doesn't mind or prefers to purchase products made in China or any other country, that is also their choice and shouldn't be attacked or slandered, just the same.
@laoman As an Asian myself you are not adding anything to the thread by calling everyone who disagrees with you as "Racist". Is Criticism or and negativity not allowed ?
Do you not see the rise in Crime/violence against us Asians with our Current President ? Also "Elected your previous president"....unlike China.
Live in the Present ,for the Future and Learn from the Past.
Keep your name calling and politics out of this thread.
Jakeman: "But, I prefer not to buy from a country that has nuclear weapons aimed at us" The US does not have nuclear weapons aimed at China? The US did not bomb the crap out of Lao - the per capita most heavily bombed country ever in the world? Seriously, why would anyone buy anything from a country that elected your previous president? Some of you on this site are unbelievably racist.
If it’s been stated I apologize but that to me would make a big difference. If I bought some Contours or Confidence that are advertised as made in Denmark I would return them if they changed manufacturing locations without the dealer telling me. Or…. I would suggest a large discount.
I can’t imagine any of their other models are made in Denmark. Maybe Special 40?
I once had a Parlee on order, back in my racing days. I canceled the order when I found out I was getting a Bianchi XL for free from a sponsor. As you likely know Parlee and Calfee have a similar heritage. I am not aware that any Pro Tour squad has ever raced a Calfee at the TdF. I take it your reference is to the fact that early on Calfees were built at a "Wrigley factory" before Selva Beach. I had to look that up. France has a custom builder of carbon using by-the-tube construction, too, Cyfac. And John Slawta of Landshark and ENVE both build by-the-tube construction custom carbon fiber frames too. Carl Strong was but just hung it up.
I love my carbon bike. My 'Tour de France Proven' Calfee Design Tetra was made at the west side Wrigley's factory and has that forgiving chewy ride compared to those produced at the bucolic La Selva Beach local.
I think I finished twelfth in the 00 Sequel Surf Circus Criterium, maybe not.
I'm down with Tadej Pogacar to win and Aleksandr Vlasov for two stages.
Why would you want to buy anything from a country known for poor quality control and cheap labor. You get what you pay for. Not to mention China has concentration camps for Muslims incarcerating 1-2 million, not to mention wiring Muslims homes so the police can listen in on their living room conversation. To hell with them. Get rid of those speakers while you still can.
that's a little late regarding how bike manufacturing works. It has been in play since the early 90's on a large scale. I worked for a Taiwanese OEM frame manufacturer that made frames for all the recognized names-Bianchi included. There are a handful of that make the majority of mass market frames across the board-low end to high.
I doubt there is another person in this thread who gives a damn about bicycle frames but I would and do quibble with your dates. I may not have been in the industry but I know bikes as a former sponsored amateur. Giant and Trek came out with consumer CF in the early 90's but the TdF squads did not widely adopt CF until 1999. I just confirmed for myself that in the '98 TdF most squads were riding aluminum. Those early 90's CF frames were not competitive with Ti and Al.
And I am no stranger to custom steel and likely know more than you do on that front as I have met close to 50 custom builders at various shows and own four customs, a Weigle, Landshark, Rob English, and Speedvagen.
Back in 1986 I bought 20 various Dynaudio woofers and 20 Dynaudio tweeters. I bought them from Meniscus, when Dynaudio still sold drivers to individuals. I still have them, NOS NIB.
I bought them for car audio installations, and they were exceptional drivers! But, my first project was only given “Honorable Mention” because in competitions, only name-brand car audio drivers were allowed, ie Kenwood, Alpine, Pioneer, Kicker, and the like.
So what should I do with these drivers? They’re taking up space in my garage workshop.
That's like the good people of Kentucky refusing Obamacare and opting for Kynect (Kentucky Health Benefit Exchange) instead. The punchline is they're the exact same thing save for the name. Pride of ownership is ephemeral, but if that's going to keep one up all night, then go with god and return the speakers.
As I just saw mentioned, I would advise as well to take them back to the dealer, make a deal on the display set swap, should be a pretty big discount, then they can display the actual model now being sold which is best for them if they value being honest to their customers.
Or, get a full refund and buy something even better used for the same money.
----
MIC will become a different thing in the future as their labor pool is aging, their youth are becoming less inclined to work so hard for so little,economic growth will slow down, they will have to start manufacturing in less developed countries, history repeating itself...
Sorry to be redundant but I'm going to emphasize a point made earlier. The bottom line here is how you feel about the speakers. If you are always going to be wondering if your speakers would sound better if they were made in Denmark then there is only one logical choice. Either return the speakers or swap them for the demo pair. We can speculate all day long whether or not the Chinese speakers are the equal of those made in Denmark but the fact is we'll never know. You bought this product for a variety of complex reasons and apparently the manufacturing origin was an important criteria.
If this issue affects your pride of ownership then that is all that matters.
"Over the last twenty years the manufacture of top tier bicycle frames has transitioned from Italian, French, and US made frames to Taiwan and China."
fsonicsmith-
that's a little late regarding how bike manufacturing works. It has been in play since the early 90's on a large scale. I worked for a Taiwanese OEM frame manufacturer that made frames for all the recognized names-Bianchi included. There are a handful of that make the majority of mass market frames across the board-low end to high.
There are a few, high end specialty carbon contractors scattered across the globe, but the majority is still Asia.
Frame building still exits here in the states, but it is very small limited to boutique steel.aluminum and titanium. Carbon is offshore.
Rode a Schwinn Sting Ray in the 60's when it was Schwinn was still a Chicago manufacturer, that sadly is just a trademarked name that exchanged hands of many investment companies and made in...Taiwan for many decades now.
Been riding Giant Taiwanese carbon for awhile-good stuff. They are one of the OEM manufacturers of known labels here, in the states.
The MIC deniers of audio...it's just audio equipment.
@uncledemp, Duh. Since when is a reassuring opinion that he needn't worry out of line? Too many summer patriots post with their hands over their hearts. Tannoy has had lines of their cabinets built in China since 2016, before final assembly back in Scotland and they still sell here with many satisfied customers.
Companies like Dynaudio carefully select factories that meet their standards and not just give anyone the contract.
Unless the manufacturer offers that exact model still being made in Denmark, the dealer had no choice as to the country of origin. Perhaps he will swap his demo for your new ones, and that way be more representative of current production while making you happier with your transaction.
The pro "Made in PRC" camp always bring up personal computers/ Apple products/I phone ect. which is NOT relevant when regarding HEA. There are NO other options for those products that we need to function in society. Yes HEA products use some Chinese made parts PC boards/solder/cabinets ect. even the blue "MAC" meters are claimed to be made in China. Fortunately a few non critical Chinese made parts will not diminish the quality of components manufactured in North America/Europe or Japan. Krell, Sonus Faber and Quad are perfect examples of made in PRC quality control. All 3 companies have had problems with Chinese made products. I love the sound of the Quad 2812/2912 but there build quality is a deal breaker. Thankfully Krell and Sonus have moved all product? out of China. Yes, there could be a few extreme examples of well made Chinese gear. Line Magnetic/Melody appear to have great build quality and claimed top level SQ but I have not seen or heard either in person to make a valid judgement.
The quality may be the same as Denmark, But, I prefer not to buy from a country that has nuclear weapons aimed at us. I always look at the label to see where its manufactured. As a union worker with 43 years experience , I have been a victim of off-shore shutdowns. Just my opinion though.
If you were expecting made in Denmark and the dealers demo were made in Denmark then I'd not accept them myself. I'm sure they still will sound fine but in the back of my mind I'd always be wondering and it may not be enjoyable to listen to them knowing this fact. But that's me and you asked.
Part of the heritage of Dynaudio was the tradition of Danish cabinetry utilizing Danish hardwoods. Denmark naturally (pun) possessed ample old growth forests of hardwood of the highest known quality in the world. For those that aren't familiar, old growth refers to forests with hundred year old trees. The wood is denser, harder, more durable, and more beautiful compared to species of trees grown in conditions designed for quick growth and harvest.
Due to multiple factors including population growth and climate change, old growth forests are disappearing at an alarming rate. China imports US old growth wood to satisfy it's ultra-wealthy for floors, cabinets, and residential woodwork. Do they import such wood for speaker cabinets? Does Dynaudio export it's Danish wood to China for construction of speaker cabinets? Regardless of loudspeaker manufacturer I believe the answer is no. Doing so would defeat most of the cost savings. I said "I think" because the industry is very secretive about such details.
Cycling has been a hobby of mine almost my entire life. Not just the physical act of cycling but also bicycle construction and design. Over the last twenty years the manufacture of top tier bicycle frames has transitioned from Italian, French, and US made frames to Taiwan and China. This coincided with the [relative, not absolute] death of hand assembled steel and titanium frames as carbon fiber frames emerged as top of the roost. The fabled brand name of Bianchi is a classic example. For many years their top-of-the-line model still bore a "Made in Italy" emblem on the frame and yet by all accounts they were actually built in Taiwan where carbon fiber mold processes are the most advanced and most economical in the world. To this day many of the most expensive brands of bicycle frame manufacturers (Colnago, Pinarello, Cervelo et. al.) are secretive about where their carbon fiber frames are built. The audio industry is similar when it comes to the top names that traditionally built all of their equipment in their native country.
I would be after the dealer I purchased them from and let him know that they were not made in Denmark as he represented to you. That is the issue. Tell the dealer you expected to receive what you ordered and expect him to honor your expectation. Only you know what will make you happy in this situation; perhaps an exchange for a Made In Denmark pair with a partial refund if the pair is a demo or a full refund/return or even keep them and accept the misrepresentation.
Agentwja
Is it exactly the same model the one you’ve received, and the one you had listened with your dealer. If so, it is not honest, because as chairo said, it reduces potentiel market value.
These are high cost, high margin, luxury products. If it was a toaster or a microwave oven, no problem. I’m sure the quality is good but you paid for a perception of quality the Danish have developed over decades. IMO, that’s what you should have received.
OP, being the customer gives you the right to have an opinion. You should do what makes you happy. You don’t need to rationalize or justify how you feel. Godspeed getting things sorted to your liking.
@chayro Wise counsel, you’ve always been a straight up cat.
@nonoise The OP cares, that’s the crux of the post.
There is a reason that MIC has the reputation of making junk. Even if they do make some great products (REL subs) that stigma will be with them prob forever. I try to buy American whenever I can not only for the quality but to support my country. Good luck!
Own great guitars made in China (Shijie/Eastman-both custom shop quality) not to mention Primaluna amps, dacs, etc…workmanship and quality are exceptional…oh, that phone we all love…all made in China…
Many companies are doing the same thing. They are using cheap labor and charging the same prices as they did before going to the cheaper labor countries! I would sure be pissed off too!
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