Does Anyone Buy Schiit for the Sake of Schiit?

I think the Vidar amp is outright good, and great for the price, same for the Saga preamp with an upgrade tube...I used these with Magnepan LRS, which is also very good and great for the price...I have not tried their more expensive gear...

I have no personal experience with their gear, but from what I’ve heard here, their service is Schiity.

I've used a Schiit DAC, it was very good.  Here on Audiogon we have enough six figure systems that people tend to look down their nose at anything that doesn't cost enough.

It's a shame Costco doesn't sell high end audio.  Their no question return policy would be terrific in this hobby.  😀

I have found Schiit Customer Service to be fast and helpful in their responses...

Isn't every purchase some kind of compromise?

Listened to a YGGDRASIL and it was flat sounding. Then listened to a Bricasti M3 and just a wow moment. Yes not even in the same price range but you do get what you pay for. 

I had a Bifrost DAC way back when and

• it was well built (robust with good component layout)
• modular design that allowed for upgrades (which attracted me)
• looked clean and minimalist - if you like that look
• had the right features for me at that time
• responded well to good cables
• they sounded pretty good at first, but then the competition caught up and surpassed

They have upgraded their products, but I think many of their products are now regarded as "middle of the road" from a performance perspective.

There are better performing products out there, but there are also many that do not compete with them

Regards - Steve

I just can’t get past the name. My brother owns their gear for it’s value. He would not call himself an audiophile

You can make a very satisfying music system without using expensive audio gear. The Schitt line of products are popular, affordable, and of sufficient quality to satisfy a lot of people. IMHO. 

Isn't every purchase some kind of compromise?

Yes!

@russ69 + 1

I think good for the money sums things up very nicely. If it were my $ and I was restricted to a lower amount I would buy used and choose from among a select group. I am not a big fan, but others point out that you can put together a decent sounding system for less than some spend on cables.

@russ69, + 2

What makes you think that Schiit's workmanship and material is of inferior quality? If their products came in milled aluminum cases with fancy engraving and sold through a dealer network, their prices would easily triple. "Good For the Money" is an insult to engineering talent that can figure out a way to produce a product for less money because of efficiency and clever design through direct sales. Have a look at the circuit board pictures of Schiitt's products on their website and point out which materials are Target quality.

Using your Walmart/Target analogy, I think Schiit is more the audio equivalent of Trader Joe's.  American company, reasonably prices, has a definite style that is not for everybody's tastes, but has many enthusiastic fans. Some might say overly enthusiastic?

They generally have had more hits than misses in their product line.

What makes you think that Schiit’s workmanship and material is of inferior quality? If their products came in milled aluminum cases with fancy engraving and sold through a dealer network, their prices would easily triple. "Good For the Money" is an insult to engineering talent that can figure out a way to produce a product for less money because of efficiency and clever design through direct sales. Have a look at the circuit board pictures of Schiitt’s products on their website and point out which materials are Target quality.

@gs5556 + 1

Well said and spot on!

When I spoke of workmanship and material I was thinking of discount store merchandise, not Schiit's products. It seems anyway that the voting here leans towards "good for the money".

When Schiit came on the scene I definitely put my foot down. I would never even consider the company because of the name.

Then a couple years ago a friend of mine needed a budget DAC. I researched the heck out of it… and could not get out of the fact that for budget gear you have to consider Schiit. So, I bought a Gungnir multibit DAC as an experiment (you can see my systems under my UserID), I was impressed. So we bought a Yggdrasil DAC for him… really very impressive for the money. Just for fun I bought a Schiit preamp and headphone amp just to play around with, and for my office system. They are very good values for the money… despite their name.

Schiit is not audiophile equipment by any stretch of the imagination, nor do they claim to be. But it is really good sounding audio equipment for the money. A good way to dip your toe in audio and see if it is for you.

I tried the Yggy Dac in my system out of pure curiosity. They have a 15 day return policy so no harm done should I return it. After I let it burn in for 5 days I gave it a serious listen over a few days. It was utterly unnatural sounding. I used my nice tyre 2 power cable and interconnects with my Wadax streamer and what I took away was an edgy grainy coarse bright sound that made string instruments sound metallic, almost as if their gut strings they were playing on were made of plastic. Honestly I couldn’t wait to get it out of my system. It might be hifi or whatever people want to call it,  but it isn’t music or anything close to what I experience when sitting as a front chair violinist  in a great American orchestra as my profession. For 300 dollars the AQ dragonfly cobalt is eons more natural sounding, fluid, nicer more natural timbre, and my tyre 2 power cable and interconnects are sitting on the floor not being used. I will be saving for the new Wadax arcadiaX and in the meantime am very happy with the cobalt.  Just my 2 cents.

I use the Bifrost 2 fed by uncompressed WAV files and the Euphony OS straight in to my tube amp. I'm very happy with my "budget" system. I listen comfortably without fatigue. "Audiophile" grade components? Not according to the vast majority here but I'm very content right now in this room relaxing to some Mingus as though I'm in the studio with him. Spend what you can afford on what makes YOU happy. At a certain point thousands more doesn't raise the level of listening pleasure in relation to the money spent. It does raise your status by impressing others here though....and gets you into their elitist club with Muff and uncle Biff.

@dancarlson10

That is an exceptional reaction. I sure do not have a technical answer to why your unit must have been defective, but it must have been. I have owned a dozen DACs an auditioned more, including an iteration of a Dragon… and the Berkeley Refersnce Alpha 3 ($22K).. As I mentioned I own a Gungnir and have had in my system a Yggdrasil, a Dragon is not in the same universe as the Schiit. Absolutely none of your criticisms of the Yggdrasil would be possible of a fully functional one. It is a shame you somehow got a bad unit. This is just not how they perform. I guess it happens. If I heard what you heard, I would send it back as well.

I don't since their DAC did not last 3 years.

Way overpriced looking that way. 

Better value at Monoprix than the two you cited.

BTW the first unit they shipped on my dime was bad and they acted like the problem was me. Maybe it was me for trusting them to send another that puked way too soon.

Shenzhen is cheaper, sounds more musical and better customer support.

@ghdprentice

 Thank you. As it turns out it was a functional unit. I contacted them. The problem is that it is not a natural live sound from what I hear in concert halls or on stage. Something about the timing or natural decay and ring to the notes is not right. The cobalt is much more accurate to my ears in this regard.  Ultra processed clinical, bright, and coarse to my ears is the schiit.  I don’t know what to say other than I disliked it and that it was a functional unit. I even had someone who knows their products listen to it. Also another classical musician listened to it and much preferred the Cobalt in a blind test. Luxman dac, schiit and then cobalt. Cobalt was an even split with Luxman in that test although very different timbres. Luxman warmer and a tad polished but a bit fat and slow and inflexible. cobalt leaner but cleaner and natural better flow. He also hated the schiit for its thin sound and brightness. When I told him 300 bucks for the cobalt he responded, that is annoyIngly good for that price. A bigwig in the industry turned me on to the Cobalt, and I am certainly glad he did. From what I have heard it absolutely crushes it’s price point however annoying that is. Having said that my Wadax streamer is exceptionally quiet and great and the cobalt plugs via usb into it. So maybe it is the combination that really works. Who knows Anyways everyone has a different system and there is no wrong answer in this hobby, Just someone’s ears and what they like or don’t like. 

Seems to me , this type of thread is always going to attract guys who have a grudge or else an unfounded bias or have heard something negative somewhere . . .   they're happy to pick up a rotten banana and hurl it whatever the brand in question might be. The OP started the ball rolling with the "where workmanship and materials are less critical"  premise and gravity will take care of the rest. There's very expensive gear with thick faceplates sculpted into fancy profiles. . . are the workmanship and materials more "critical" to the SQ in such components? I don't think so!

If someone has been sold a faulty component and the manufacturer has failed to make it right, the buyer is fully justified in complaining. But to phrase a question as though it's simply soliciting opinions when the language employed already  suggests a conclusion rubs me the wrong way. YMMV.

i think it’s good gear. i’ve owned a few different things from them. i don’t have the same frame of reference as most posters here, my equipment is "budget level" compared to most of the systems on here, but i know what sounds good to me. the schiit gear is a great entry point to better sound and i could easily live with it for the long haul...the way i see it, the less i spend chasing "the ultimate system", the more i can spend on records.

i aspire to own a legit world class system one day, but i’ve got little kids and a mortgage.. affordable workhorse components that perform well, like schiit, are a godsend to guys like me

....I have enough schiit in my life already, don't need to go buy it....more than enough to hand some out to the unwary....;)

I used their Freya Plus preamp for a couple of years and when paired with the right NOS tubes it was easily worth twice what they charged for the unit.  Eventually I upgraded but to this day would recommend someone getting into this hobby to give it a listen and perhaps even pair the Freya Plus with the Aegirs. Coupled with a nice set of speakers they would be off to a fine start. 

@dancarlson10 what I took away was an edgy grainy coarse bright sound that made string instruments sound metallic, almost as if their gut strings they were playing on were made of plastic. Honestly I couldn’t wait to get it out of my system.

"there are fundamental problems in Schiit multibit DACs when it comes to doing what they are told to do: convert digital samples faithfully to analog. Whether we use balanced or unbalanced output, problems remain. And not just in one measurement but practically everywhere we look."

So, your subjective assessment is in line with what Amir concludes about Yggdrasil v2 based on the measurements of a few key parameters. I’m not surprised, but some audiophiles may prefer to cross a busy intersection at peak hour before consulting with ASR.

A lot of time and effort goes into their stuff and the main two guys have many years of experience in the business. In my experience most of the people who bash them do so because of the price to quality myth. Humans usually equate higher prices with better and that's not always true. They do almost everything themselves and don't have to worry about markup from distributors and then retailers so they can keep the prices low.

Keep in mind that most audio stuff is marked up at least 100% from it's production cost so a piece of Schiit that sells for $250 is equivalent to something that would sell for $500 from a retail store and probably more if it's tarted up like Dagostino or similar.

I own a couple of Magni 3 headphone amps that are excellent, an original Freya, the more recent version of which got a "class A" rating in Stereophile, a Bifrost 2, 2 Loki EQs...all extremely well designed and utterly high end, except for their cost...if this stuff wasn't great sounding I'd send it back.

If one’s budget is $250 for a headphone amp, it certainly appears Schiit has come to the rescue. 

@mrskeptic They do almost everything themselves and don’t have to worry about markup from distributors and then retailers so they can keep the prices low.

This does present something of a conundrum to posh retailers who have stuff on their shelves with bone crunching price tags that need to be sold - would they dare to stock Schiit even if they could? Customers may find that they prefer Schiit if they audition. Ouch.

Isn’t competition a beautiful thing?

Yes, Schiit have very experienced and highly reputable engineers on board. I suspect this may be a recent (last couple years or so) development.  That Yggy thing I mentioned a few posts above was June 2018 - that was then, this is now.

I have one of the last batch of their Sol turntable. From what I've heard in the comparable range, the Sol blows away the competition. It's no question that Rega, Thorens, etc. make nice turntables, and I know if you dropped some $ tweaking them, they do get better with upgrades. Even right out of the box, my Sol was a great sounding unit, and eventually I did some accessory purchases and some DIY tweaking too. It now absolutely sounds fantastic and completely runs circles around a Rega P3. I really wish they'd bring the Sol back into production or at least produce a few more tonearms so I can easily swap cartridges. My only regret was not purchasing extra tonearms when I could.

-Lloyd

@fuzztone 

"Shenzhen is cheaper, sounds more musical and better customer support"

Couldn't agree more!

I won't buy something just because of the name.  I buy audiophile gears based on extensive quality reviews and trials.  I purchased Schiit Modius and I kept it because I think it is a dac outperforming may DACs I had tried below $500 and other had reviewed below $1k.  It takes away digital glare so I could listen to music many hours without fatigues, while still retains details and commendable SS width and depth.  The only thing remained to be seen is its long-term reliability.

I found the forumers who praise the Schiit as very good to excellent "budgetary" products but NOT audiophile grades are rather snobbish.  If you do not beleive they are audiophile grade then do not buy it, because you are downgrading yourself to a non-audiophile at the same time.  Why do you proclaim yourself to be a audiophile when you purchase and actually enjoy with a non-audiophile product?  Snobbish!  That is the first explanation I could think of.  In addition, they are one of direct-sale companies that aim to serve well the audiophile community with quality yet affordable audiophile grade equipments.  This business model puts themselves a competitor of not only other manufactures but also dealers.  That is the second explanation I could think of.  If you proclaim yourself as a audiophile and enjoy using the Schiit product, give the appraisal that Schiit actually deserves.  Don't be that stingy.

Cost does not always determine quality. Many companies work hard to keep costs down. Direct to consumer sales low advertising budget. To say Schiit is low quality because you had one product and did not like it is what we typically see here. You “heard” they have bad customer service? People rendering opinions on gear they have never heard. If Schiit shut down for a year for r&d, then advertised for 6 months that their new high end line of product was coming out, signed a contract with multiple retail stores, then doubled the price when they put them in the stores man there would be saying how great they are. Thing is though everything was the exact product before the marketing campaign, retail launch. Buy what you want and let others buy what they want and only offer opinions from real experience.

Well, I am an audiophile with lots of experience (I am 65, bought my first pair of Advents in 1972 and started listening to state of the art equipment shortly thereafter, building a GAS Ampzilla in 1975, pairing it at the time with a Marantz Model 7).

To say that Schiit is not audiophile equipment is flat out dumb. I’d put my Yggdrasil up against any DAC on the market, at any price, and it won’t be embarrassed. Every piece of Schiit I have bought for myself or my family has been terrific, and not just for the price. I got my older son a Modi Multibit DAC this past Christmas  and damn!, the drive that unit has is unbelievable. The Schiit Vali headphone amp, combined with the Modi, did a superb job of driving my Sennheiser HD800S. Different but Not too far in overall satisfaction than what I get from my Woo WA6 with the Sophia Electric mesh rectifier tube.
 

so c’mon, cut out the superiority. They are all well made (I have bought a Saga, Vali, Modi, Loki, Hel, and Yggdrasil), no issues with any of them ever.

Audiophile equipment indeed, but without the stupid, gold-chain prices.

After hearing and reading a few reviews I bought a Loki it was a fun buy reasonably priced and it is fun changing the sound of my system. I initially was going to return the product and Schiits staff could not have been more helpful in that regard. I had second thoughts. So now it is up to its durability and reliability to win me over in the long run. 

What a crazy Hobby this is.  I haven’t had the pleasure of owning or hearing Schiit gear.  I have read about the history of their company, products, concepts of how they bring products to market.  Their model of using their technical expertise and experience to create products at more affordable prices while uniquely listening to their customer base, the customers being allowed to drive models / production while being made in the USA.  What about any of the above isn’t to like, weather you like the way their products sounds is subjective.  
 

The magic in this Hobby is that gear isn’t merely the sum of its parts.  A company can have a ton of R&D funding, put out products that have the best specs on paper but be bested by a one man shop who has a passion and talent to creatively implement those same parts differently, yielding different sonic results. But that “besting” is purely in the ear of the beholder.  
 

This hobby has so many success stories of passionate boutique shops making everything from speakers to DAC’s to Amps, to cables, to designing next level active speaker systems.  It also has mainstay house hold names like Mac, Krell, Luxman, the list goes on.  These iconic brands have their own large fan clubs.

So much depends on “you” what you think sounds good.  Some of the most heralded products are born from the marriage of highly engineered products that were tweaked, changed in ways that don’t necessarily make sense on paper but yield sonic bliss.  
 

Like their products or not, if you are into this Hobby Schiit’s model, success should be celebrated, admired.  Taking a Schiit on the company highlights the elitism, baloney that pushes people away from the hobby.  I hope we continue to see Companies like Schiit thrive and BTW, some of the other brands, products referenced in this thread are small, 1-2 man operations trying to replicate Schiit’s model / success.  

everything in life that can be bought is judged by what it provides relative to its cost... it is just that some judge this aspect more than others

schiit audio makes a lot of gear, some very inexpensive, some more expensive, all are well engineered and thought through - that said, it is a high volume outfit so you are not going to get super careful high end individualized care and service, but it is a pretty well run company that is by and large responsive to its customers

like all companies that make a lot of items, some items are better than others, from performance, value, market success perspectives - i would say its lower cost items are better, relatively speaking, as there is a degree of quality and assurance that is better than no name cheapo lowest-common-denominator stuff off ebay or alibaba... moving up in price there are more quality alternatives from other makers

it is what it is

I have been very satisfied with my Schiit gear, Gumby and Freya +, though admittedly I have not done any DAC comparisons. The Freya + was a significant upgrade to my NAD integrated's preamp.

Had to return the first Freya for an unknown problem in one channel. Customer service was professional and timely. Same with my Gungnir MB upgrade and queries on delayed orders. As with any support organization mutual respect goes a long way towards good service.

Overall I would say they offer a very high value product line.

Dies anyone have any experience with their two newer pieces of “Schiit”, the equalizers? I was thinking of trying one to help sort out a mid bass hump I have in my living room before I start putting any sound absorption devices in that my wife wouldn’t probably think too highly of. 

I still have an original BiFrost in my second system. Worth every penny I spent at the time.

I have owned their Mjolnir Headphone Amp and the Bifrost 2.  Both were excellent for their price and perhaps "punched above their weight".  They don't try to play in the stratosphere of the hobby.  They have carved out a niche and have some clever marketing behind them.  You could certainly get a lot less for your money.  Kudos to them.

johnwolfpell: I've used EQs professionally (graphic, notching parametric, etc.) in my pro sound musician life and home audio for decades, but hadn't even considered one in my hifi rig for many years as I'm more of a purist when it comes to that sort of thing. I tried the original Schiit Loki and was blown away at its transparency and lack of any tonal degradation when it's in the system. I use it in line between the preamp and power amp in the "on" but bypassed mode as suggested by Schiit. I actually bought the newer version, the Mini +, and stuck it in the hifi, moving the other one to the video heap. Just a great EQ, and I imagine the Lokius and Loki Max work fine.

Yeah what I like to do is buy equipment for $50k and think it sounds 100 times better. I like to buy into hype. There is nothing more satisfying to me than to buy an audio system more expensive than my house and try to get someone over to listen with me only to find out people think it’s stupid to spend outrageous sums of money on audio gear. That’s what I’m all about. I agree with the posters before me everything is a comprise, but rather calling some piece of audio "walmart gear", is it not more ridiculous to overspend on something without getting the quality you paid for?!?!

Eq. ing the room is more powerful than EQ. ing the gear...

We listen to the gear+room not to the gear alone...

Acoustic is more powerful than tone control...

But for all those with no dedicated room a LOKI can be useful i dont doubt that at all...

My Sansui AU 7700 had 6 buttons for filters and refined tone controls... And i dont need them now... I use them for many years BEFORE acoustic treatment and before room mechanical control implementation...