IME it is easier to get farther with digital at lower to medium investments than it is with vinyl. For instance, a ~$5K digital rig will require close to a $10K analog rig to rival it, but each medium will have its own strengths and weaknesses. For larger investments into vinyl rigs, say $20K+ vinyl often surpasses digital, but the right combination of digital gear can surpass endgame analog setups.
Digital is far better than vinyl
I have invested a decent sum of money into my digital setup, including a decent streamer (Innuos Zenith MK3), a very good dac (Denafrips Terminator 2), Eno filter, and good cabling. But after being told by many here that vinyl is vastly superior to digital, I thought let’s build an analog system and see what all the fuss is about. So this is what I did ...
I picked up an Audio Technica TT from Amazon for around $299. I then used one of the older integrated amps with a built-in phono, which I believe I paid around $500 a few years ago. And, finally, just to even out the playing field I bought the cheapest possible cables from alibaba. Since I didn’t have extra rack space to put the TT on, I got a couple of bricks and built a DIY platform for it.
So after listening to the analog setup for a few days, I can proclaim without a shadow of doubt that digital is far, far superior than vinyl on any given day, and twice a day on Sunday.
What has been your experience? And please, don’t mention your gear or any special. cartridges, isolation, etc. Not interested in your system details. I just want to make sure you guys understand that digital is far, far superior than vinyl.
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+1 @arafiq
I listen to Classical most of the time and it’s just now contest. The expanded dynamic range alone made me fall in love with my first CDP, and it was 14 bit player. Even that player revealed so much more detail and made the instruments sound so much more natural that it was like the Gods had invited me,a mere mortal, to their private listening room on Mt. Olympus |
Proper installation/alignment/calibration is DEFINITELY needed for ANY TT setup, and ANY Cartridge on ANY TT for superior results. Done properly, (surely this OP does not have the tools and acquired skills), the comparisons get 'real' and in my case LP's always beat CD's and Reel to Reel always beats LP's.
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I sold my Rega 3 ten years ago. I kept some records, many still in wrapper or played only a handful of times The Rega and Thorens I had were decent tables but nothing on the level that would compare to today’s digital . I started playing digital files through my OPPO , from there I got Bluesound Vault , and then finally an Aurender N200 The OPPO showed that digital can sound pretty good , the Vault proved that it could sound good and have a slick GUI The Aurender with my current DAC sounds incredible, I was thinking about getting back into vinyl but the cash outlay to even come close would be a lot
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Not that long ago the best analog was king but that isn’t responsible for the current popularity of vinyl. It’s the budget systems. Cheap digital hurts your ears. Cheap vinyl doesn’t and, assuming the table is set up competently, sounds way better. I have invested enough to enjoy both formats. Each has its own pros and cons and compromises. At the ultimate top end the debate goes on while the low and mid priced gear is ours to enjoy as we please and we apply what we know to suit our tastes. The is no best. |
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I applaud your efforts Sir. I got the perfect solution for you to address the limited space. The cables used in this setup are ‘tuned’ for Vinyl (they’ve a uncanny ability to mask pops and ticks) and withstood the test of times since 1970, sourced directly from @jasonbourne52
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@lalitk LMAO |
During my first 15 years with an audio system, vinyl was my main source. My first "audiophile" turntable was a mid-1970’s Phillips GA-212, and it sounded just fine for the time. Eventually moved up to Thorens with a Shure cartridge, which sounded even better. It didn’t cost a lot to have good sound from vinyl, and to the point made by @wlutke, it still doesn’t. Back then, cassette was our way to take music on the road. Those sounded fine too. Car noise and warm sounding Jensen 6x9 speakers made highly detailed playback unnecessary. CD came along and sounded like CRAP for years, but it was novel and convenient. That convenience is what drove buyers to keep purchasing CDs and manufacturers to keep improving playback options. I am amazed at how good 16/44.1k streamed music can sound when played through a high quality server and DAC. In my case, it is good enough that the convenience of streaming (or playback of ripped CDs) outweighs the possible preference for the sound of vinyl in some cases. Of course, they have improved vinyl playback with better tables, cartridges, and phono stages, and better isolation platforms to greatly reduce the detrimental effects of vibration on vinyl playback. Vinyl has its own issues such as the outer tracks sounding better than the inner tracks, the choice to use 33rpm as the default playback speed when the higher speeds can provide better sound, and of course the physical wearing out of records and styluses. I suspect it is also harder to find new music on vinyl compared to digital. One last observation on sound quality is that with higher resolution systems, little sonic deficiencies have become a bigger deal. My original system with that Phillips turntable consisted of a cool Sansui 5000 receiver and Jensen 12-inch, three-way, speakers mounted in a big, solid birch plywood box. That system didn’t need the level of detail available today to sound musical and fun to listen to. Fortunately, in today’s world, a buyer can set up a pretty good sounding vinyl or digital system without breaking the bank. |
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This is totally ludicrous. But here goes anyway: My experience is that vinyl CAN be equal or better than most digital music reproduction (Not enough for me to chase but that is a personal preference.) To get there you gotta pay to play, either mucho money or gobs of time to maximize SQ. Your cheapskate antics ain’t gettin’ it. You got exactly what you deserve. The vinyl freaks around here spend more $ on a stylus than your total expenditures. Plus careful setup and then prep before each play. All this work to enjoy <30 minutes at a crack. Not worth it to me any more. But I do savor the occasional LP side. |
To those who don’t seem to get it, this post is a witty retort to another thread (just removed by admin BTW) where the title was “Streaming for Quantity,Vinyl for Quality…”. The OP came to this broad conclusion using a…wait for it…Node as a streamer and its internal DAC as his “benchmark” for streaming quality compared to a much more expensive vinyl setup. Totally absurd and worthy of parody and derision IMHO. |
This is actually quite humorous OP. So you spend 1/10th the budget that you used for your digital frontend and buy the cheapest shittiest analog components (self proclaimed in your post) and then make the blanket statement that Digital (that is converted to analog) is superior to analog. You did not even make an apples to apples comparison. Don't get me wrong I have more invested in my digital front end than you and a very nice analog FE unit and Analog nips out my digital by a fender. Your comparisons is like my daughter racing me in her 2020 Nissan Sentra and I am in my 1982 Buick Grand National.
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@lalitk Sorry man. I get the perverse enjoyment of hearing people spout off on this thread, but my sensitive side got the better of me. I’m too weak. |
Ah…. Now I get it @soix . I was wondering for a moment Jason Bourne angry dude with glasses had hacked @arafiq ’s account 😂
The story about Node and vinyl setup does not surprise me one bit. I have encountered actual cases like this too many times to count. Why? Well, because digital is just zeroes and one, it either works or it doesn’t, so digital gear does not matter. Yup |
Sorry I can’t help on the analog side, but I am curious about the Eno digital filter. I went to their website and they said I’d be stunned by the results of installing one, but I have no real idea what it’s supposed to be doing. So can you tell me? BTW, I am new to streaming and have a Node N130 and a Denafrips Pontus ll. Thanks in advance. |
I think the OP is being satirical - at least I hope s/he is. Aside from the satire., early digital was dreadful. A quality modest turntable such as a Rega Planar 3 was manifestly superior back in the mid eighties when CD was launched. Today, the situation is a lot more complex. Personally, if I didn't have a rather large vinyl collection, I'd be digital all the way. And if I was starting out, I certainly wouldn't be spending money on vinyl transcriptions of digital files - i.e. most current vinyl releases - not just MoFi 'One Step" :)) |
Many thousands of $$$ are required to get very good sound. A cheap dac say < $4900 will not have better sq as the better more expensive dacs. This goes the same for an analog setup. I had $15,000 invested in a tt setup and I know I could have done much better. The OP did exactly what a lot of analog reviewers do or people that are analog biased. Fremer is a prime example, he compares his multi-hundred thousands of $$$ worth of analog setup to a $5k-$10k dac. How fair is that? I’ve seen other people get a $200 dac and compare this setup to their $10k tt setup. |