15k for streamer and dac....how much on each?

I’d choose a DAC up to 12k first, then decide on a streamer.  Keeping the streamer separate from the DAC may be beneficial for future upgrades, but there are some good streamer+DACs.

I started with separate streamer and DAC, but upgraded to the streamer+DAC Linn Klimax DSM/2 with the Organik DAC upgrade because it seems like a fantastic sonic value.

I have to agree with the poster above who said "let your ears decide" and that there is no standard recommended percentage.

Streaming transports vary wildly in pricing and features, and are one of those areas where spending more does not necessarily produce audible benefits. Sometimes it just gets you more features, or a big fancy enclosure, or a recognizable brand name. If those aspects are useful go for it but for some people they aren't necessary. 

For example I hear nothing but raves about the Stack Audio Link which is relatively affordable and has very limited features. But if it does what you want or need it to do, then it just might outperform much more expensive alternatives. 

@audiocanada lots of opinions on this. We’re a dealer in Minnesota and are really passionate about digital audio. We love all sources but things have gotten so good on the digital front that there are some amazing options out there. That said, we have really been selective on what we have chosen to bring in because we think it’s outstanding. 

Not sure what streaming services you use, but something like a Meitner MA3 or the Mola Tambaqui have on board Roon capability and have fantastic DAC’s. I’d also suggest an Aurender N200 streamer with a Merason DAC1 - detail with gobs of musicality. I think you’ll benefit from separating the streamer from the DAC considering your budget and options.

Good luck on your search for audio heaven! 
 

-Choice Audio 

7k for Denafrips Terminator R2R DAC + Iris DDC. Streamer is just a glorified computer, so maybe 1K. Buy yourself Denafrips Artemis headphone amp and nice cans for the remainder.

 @adasdad 

thanks for the second response, just not a huge fan of certain judgements

perhaps I misread

appreciate the specificity around your setup, exactly the kind of info I'm seeking

If u are willing to spend 15k on a streamer/dac, you probably need your head examined.

You could get a Grimm MU2 streamer/DAC. I have the streamer only and it is excellent.

I second the recommendation of an Esoteric N-01XD.  I love mine. 

With $15k for a streamer + DAC you are in what I call the "Pride of Ownership" price range. The sound quality of digital gear has become more similar as companies refine their products in the face of stiff competition. Whatevery you buy will sound wonderful.

Hifi Rose makes a gorgeous streamer (RS130) for about $5500 that has about every feature you can imagine and it’s built like the proverbial brick.....house. That would leave a lot of money for a DAC. I can second the recommendation of a Tubadour IV which costs about $3500. I have one and have compared it to several more expensive DACs and it definitely holds its own. I would have trouble justifying spending more than this on a DAC unless you need a feature like HDCD decoding.

If you could think of something else you might do with $13,000 you could get an Eversolo Dmp-a8 for $2k which will do it all. This unit has received gaga reviews and I suspect the SQ difference between a $15k streamer/DAC combo and the Dmp-a8 would be disturbingly small. A conservative strategy would be to get the Eversolo and use it for a while. Then if you have an itch for an expensive DAC you could just use the streamer function of the Dmp-a8 and hook up the DAC to it. This would give you the ability to compare the new DAC with the one that is built-in to the Eversolo so you can see if you are getting better sound.

@audiocanada, and which kind of “THAT guy” are you assuming that I am sir? In my system the ratio between what I spent on my DAC and upsampler with interconnects and power supplies compared to what I spent on my music streamer/server is approximately five to one. What has made the biggest impact on my system was investing in having the cleanest power possible running into and through it. I’ve spent at least three times as much on linear and switch mode power supplies, a good power conditioner with an equally good power cable, and RFI and EMI filters, as I did on my music server alone. 
 

 I built my system around the sound signature of my Chord TT2 DAC and Chord Hugo M Scaler. If I had your $15K today I’d get a Chord Dave DAC and an Antipodes music server because I like their synergy. Good luck and I hope you find what you’re looking for. 

I believe the Lumin feeds DSD to the DAC 200. I just got the T+A Dac 200 also. Sounds great on red book. Feeding it DSD files off the Melco Na H60 Ex is a step up. The Melco doesn’t convert native red book to DSD so would love to hear the Lumin take Quboz and Tidal files converted to DSD >Dac 200. 
I have played with the DSD conversion in Roon but doesn’t seem like it makes much of a difference. 
 

still drool over the Grimm Mu2. Hopefully down the road. 

@oldracer 

I too have the DAC200. Have you tried giving it DSD files? I’m not sure if the Lumin has the capability of file conversion or if you have a computer you could put HQplayer on to then give to the Lumin. But, the DAC200 sounds even better when using its DSD path.

to the rest on this thread  - sorry for the short detour.

I have a $6300 streamer and a DAC that costs less than $2000. Let your ears decide, there is no % guide here.

I recently bought the T+A Dac200 and the Lumin U2 streamer, so about 50/50 in cost. Sounded spectacular but a touch " Hifi" on some cuts ( running unfiltered). However adding a high quality switch and a Network Accoustics ethernet filter/usb cable combo brought it to a level that now beats my more expensive analogue front end when listening to some 24bit files.

It’s always fascinating to read through these threads. 

A number of posters have stated it’s a waste to spend money on a streamer. I’d be curious as to how many better quality streamers they’ve actually tried in their own system. 

To some of us, investing in a quality streamer was more beneficial than upgrading the DAC. In my search for a new DAC, I auditioned the Simaudio 680 DAC (very nice unit, BTW - with built in streaming function).

I had been planning on getting an all in one DAC/streamer and figured I would sell my streamer, saving me some money, cables, boxes.

I then auditioned that same DAC but with my Auralic G2 streamer sourcing it - just to compare. The dealer doesn’t carry Auralic - so he was certainly not biased in favor of it. He was as surprised as me at how much better the DAC sounded when sourced by the outboard streamer as opposed to the Simaudio built in streaming function. (As an aside, he started working on picking up the line). 

This is but one example I can share. Those looking to improve the performance of their DAC should strongly consider exploring improving the source feeding the DAC. You just might be surprised at the results. Streamers can make a very significant difference for the better if you choose well. 

It’s certainly worth auditioning one instead of dismissing it.

if by “streamer” you just mean streamer, then I’d go no more than 10% on streamer.  ($7500 on a streamer is a complete waste of $.)  If you mean server and streamer, Maybe as much as, but no more than, 20-25%.  In the former case, there are also a number of really good all in one streamer/dacs so you do not have to make that decision.  For example, the Simaudio DACs are really fine streamers as well.  It would be helpful if you gave more info about your use case.  How do you stream now?  Do you use Roon?  What’s your current DAC?

Personally would never spend more than $2k on a dac. Unless you’re so wealthy this is chump change. Dac tech changes so fast that DACs lose value faster than any other part of your system. Additional, the newer DACs crush the older DACs. I’d take a $600 smsl dac from 2024 over a $10000 dac from 2018 all day long.

I do not see DACs changing that fast. I think once jitter was tamed, DAC designs seemed to have plateaued. Maybe the only exception is FPGA based DAC which are easy to update for the manufacturer.

That $2k threshold for an excellent DAC is something I agree on. My Benchmark DAC3B is less than $2k. While not the greatest DAC it can be made to sound very nice on a warm system. My other DAC is the $2400 Schitt Yggi+ LIM and that DAC is amazing. I really have no complaints about that one.

As I said earlier in a post, no need to spend a lot on a streamer, especially if you use fibre optic just before the DAC.

Buy a used Lumin X1 DAC/Streamer for around $6k used and you have a very good DAC and a tremendous streamer. Best of all you have Fibre Optic as streaming option on the X1. I owned that DAC, and it was really good, I like the new Yggi+ LIM a bit more than the X1, but the X1 comes with that amazing fibre streamer.

You can get a network switch with fibre support for $100 - $200. One of my network switches cost me about $120 when new. Today, it is selling for $500 - $600, I think because audiophiles wanted it. It sounds the same as my other $75 network switch with fibre. Point is that you do not need to spend too much to get the highest quality streaming.

BTW - for me the streaming section of the X1 is worth the $6k you see on the used market. That thing is so useful if you have a few DACs or something like the PeachTree GAN1 unit which needs SPDIF with volume.

@adasdad

clearly.... you're THAT guy

*shakes head*

@audiocanada, do you have a trusted audio gear dealer somewhat near where you live? Because if you do that’s where I’d start my search instead of throwing out open ended queries here on Audiogon while dangling $15K as a teaser. As the old saying goes “a fool and his money are soon parted”. Sometimes to me it seems as if half of the contributors on these forums are audio gear retailers themselves and would love for everyone to buy multi-thousand dollar streamers. If you think you need a 30lbs shiny milled aluminum electrified box sitting in your house just to play tunes off of the internet then more power to you. 
 

 But if you’re really serious about putting together a system that lets you simply enjoy listening to the music that you like instead of wondering what piece of expensive audio kit “sounds better”, then you should start with some basic questions first. What kind of music do you enjoy? Are you going to be using speakers in a dedicated listening room, and do you use headphones only or a combination of the two? Because certain DACs in my experience make different speakers and headphones sound better than others. Which is my way of saying that getting the best DAC that suits your musical preferences is far more important than buying the latest server/streamer on today’s market. What DACs have you been able to demo for yourself? 

Audiocanada,

You're getting some great information here, all of it good.....but all of it (including mine) is subjective based on our experiences. I'd spend more on the DAC, but still get a really nice streamer. I'd go 60/70% DAC and 30/40% streamer. I personally prefer separate DAC and streamer, that way you can always upgrade one component instead of having to upgrade a more expensive all-in-one system.

That split would still get you a great streamer (better if you're okay with a used streamer), and a great DAC. Personally I'd look at once of the great Aurender/Lumin/Innuous streamers, example you can get an Aurender N20 used for about $7,000 and that would leave $8,000 DAC

Or an Aurender N200 for about $4,000 used and that would leave $11,000 for a great DAC.

I mention Aurender, because the N20 and N200 are the only high end streamers that I have had in my system....along with an N10. I just have never had a Lumin or Innuous in my system, but by all reports they are great units as well.

As others already have mentioned, pay attention to connections and their preferences, and if possible try to audition a unit, and whether you want a streamer/server for storing files locally or just a streamer.

OP not sure what the rest of your system is but for 17,500 retail the Grimm MU2 is gaining a lot of traction. Usually in a streamer/dac combo the streaming portion is the weak link. Grimm is known for their streamer (Mu1) and have added a world class Master Dac. The Preamp section rivals high end stand alones. You can add storage if you like. 
One box ,power chord ,IC.  Great chance it will sound better than any seperates  you can put together. 

The Audio Mirror Toubadour IV SE at $3500 with tube is the most musical DAC I've heard and hand made in the USA.. The T+A 200 at $7200 is also excellent....Good luck in your search.

@jaxwired , how much of a difference do you find between the SMSL and the Wyred4Sound DACs that you own? Which one do you prefer?

Personally would never spend more than $2k on a dac.  Unless you’re so wealthy this is chump change.  Dac tech changes so fast that DACs lose value faster than any other part of your system.  Additional, the newer DACs crush the older DACs.  I’d take a $600 smsl dac from 2024 over a $10000 dac from 2018 all day long.  

I would start with how good are my current amp and speakers and match the components to those. 

I can second Audioman58's recommendation to your inquiry.

The App for the streamer can provide a most certain opportunity for frustration if you don't go with a solid one. I'm a huge fan of the Sense App by Innuos. Make sure your streamer is hardwired with Ethernet-In. If you are going the Roon route, be certain your streamer is compatible. Not all are.

I use an Innuos LPS for my Pulse-mini, but I'm certain the Pulse and Pulsar have built in toroidal transformers to be certain your power is clean.

I’d go with a Denafrips Terminator II and a Sonore Signature Rendu SE. This will give you 100% fiber to the DAC cleaning everything beyond belief…. Also get a Sonore Sonic Transport which stay on your network all the time.  That piece is Roon ready and flows seamlessly throughout the components.  These (3) should be around $10k all in.  Look them up if you have a minute to see.  It did change my system night and day.  You’ll also have money left to upgrade or change some cables and speaker wires 

Hope it helps 

we put together a fantastic package of an aqua hifi lascala 8500

with a 432evoAeon 7800 server

the aqua Dac is modular and upgradable so is the server

This combination sounds like a good analog front end

Dave and Troy

audio intellect NJ

aqua and 432evo dealers

@mglik 

W20SE is the way to go if you can afford it. You can always upgrade the DAC (or not). The W20SE improved upon W20 in terms of treble without any sibilant effects, which was the case with W20. 

The SE is also more analog-like overall, with greater dimensionality and space between instruments. Instrumental images are more solid, tangible, and three-dimensional, with a greater impression of body.

W20SE will excel further with a good USB or AES cable and equally good BNC clock cable.

Hope you enjoy the audition and company of @ghdprentice.  

Aurender certainly would be biased. However, they say the streamer is 30% and the DAC 70%.

I currently have a dCS Lina DAC and Lina Clock. I am not particularly happy with its built n streamer and am considering an Aurender W20SE. Although I did take note of Aurender W20s for sale used for very good price. Think the battery power supply which in in the W20 and the SE could be the most significant feature. Surely the SE must be better. But considering I don’t have an up line dCS, the older model could be just fine.

My pal, @ghdprentice, will be coming by to check out his W20SE with my Lina.

I hope that I am blown away. Just the Lina and clock with its built in streamer in my system produce a sound that is more detailed than my analog and sounds very good but I only listen to digital at night with the TV. With music it is, unfortunately, too much and tiring. My hope is that the W20SE will relax the sound and make it not only listenable but as enjoyable or better than my analog. I am 71 and still enjoy the ritual of the LP. But there will come a time when analog becomes difficult. 

I honestly believe that the majority of the money should go towards the dac. The rest for the streamer. 
 

I’m not sure of the synergy. Though from what I’ve read the Bricasti M1, in conjunction with the n150 or n200 (aurender)  would probably suit most listeners well. 
 

As other post have mentioned, Your source is the Dac, everything else is second fiddle. 
 

Best luck. 

I went 2:1 DAC to streamer with the same budget.  Could not be happier with the synergy between my Ayre QX-5 Twenty DAC and Lumin U2 streamer.

@kcpellethead 

Thank you.  If I had 15K a used Bartok Apex would be my goal.

If I were swapping equipment in and out frequently, I wouldn't spend top dollar for something that isn't going to stay long-term. You could probably try out some of the newer all-in-one DAC/Streamer combos out there for not a huge investment to see if you want to commit to the streaming side of hi-fi. Then upgrade over time.

@knighttodd

As long as you pair LinQ with one of the available AQUA DAC’s via I2S, you will get the best sound from LinQ. I wanted to try LinQ in my system but its lack of USB support, proprietary I2S connectivity and max resolution upto DSD128 were the limiting features that prompted me to look elsewhere.

If do pursue LinQ, make sure to get it with HQPlayer Core + NAA module.

No one brought it up but I have been circling around the Aqua Audio Linq and the LA scala mkii optologic dac. I also use Roon and the Linq is supposed to have been designed to integrate with Roon. Has anyone had any experience with this combo?

Lots of great options in the price range.  My best advice, based on my experience, would be to go with separate dac and streamer.  

If you are going with Roon I recommend and Dac that has Roon incorporated.  For my first two iterations I went with I had a Roon Nucleus + with a Lumin D2 and decided I like it and upgraded my streamer to a Lumin T2.  I am really impressed with the Lumin technology, value and sound.  

I decided to overhaul my system and demoed everything I could get my hands on and landed on a Grimm MU1 Streamer with Roon built in and a Nagra Tube Dac.  I demoed Aurender, MSB, NAD, Innuos, Lumin, on and on.  If I did not get the Nagra I would have gone with the MSB.  The Msb Discrete Dac is probably in your range and agree with @riie .  Again, my best advice is to go with separates.  

Let us know how you make out.

You should at least consider an Esoteric N-01XD for a one box solution.  There are a couple used in your price range.  In my comparisons I preferred this over dCS and Aurender units. 

70/30 or 80/20 in favor of the DAC.

For $15k you might look at the streaming DAC's in that price range.

Happy hunting!

Forunder $7k  the T+a 200 dac myself and many say by far best in class it beats dacs much more expensive . The innuous pulsar latest mk3 or 4 you can get forunder $6500 which is top notch and better interface then Roon sounding better

to not have to use Roon.  Buy a decent ethernet switch Ansuz  or innuos 

and for sure quality Ethernet cables , and important buy a quality LPS power supply at the router ,the$5 junk wall wart that comes with the router- modem comboinduces a lot of noise , linear tube audio $700 on Audiogon  by far the best in class and can go upto 8 amps routers are around 4amps look on the wall wart today most are 12 v and comes  with a very high quality DC cable to router. Many people forget this ,a Big Mistake.

Is there a reason you wouldn’t want a one box solution….? The DCS Bartok is an amazing DAC. I’ve compared it to Nagra - Audio Research - Chord - Aurender - Moon - They are popping up used on Audiogon. As they retain a fair amount of thier value, maybe buy a Bartok and live with it a while…..?? 
 

it’s so subjective. This is just my journey. I currently have a Rossini Apex Player and somehow, it just keeps getting better…!

have fun…!

audiocanada OP

180 posts

04-08-2024 at 07:17am 

…

I enjoy buying and switching gear and trying new things

I'm not a traditional audiophile by any stretch and don't quite see or maybe understand how you guys view gear...still trying to learn, …

Heyya @audiocanada I’s say between jingling $15K in your pocket and your above predilections, you just might be the spitting image of an audiophile yet 😉

What do you know about how the two devices work, how they are assessed for sound “quality,” and so forth?

When you don’t perceive much difference between devices, there are more worldly, or at least disciplined, ways of going about learning than shedding a low 5-figs as a first step. 

@kairosman IMO it won’t be long before digital becomes indistinguishable from analog.

it’s arrived  

Bartök?

@ghdprentice just a heads up on ARC DAC9.,.not all of them support Linux based streamers (when you use USB interface). Older DAC9 will require updating the USB card which is done by ARC and isn’t cheap. 
I was looking into this DAC and that’s how I know. If you plan on using AES/EBU or SPDIF then there’s nothing to worry about. 

OP keep in mind not all streamers are optimized for AES or SPDIF. Majority is optimized for USB out - they don’t feature an internal clock of the highest possible quality and this is where the DAC quality comes into play 

MSB Discrete with Renderer

Used Lumin X1. 7-8k. Great pkace to start/stay
Aurender too. 

A lot of info these forums helping w/ the whole chain. Router/swiches/fillers/cabels all help and are important to SQ. Worth the cost. 

If you go separates a 50/50 % split is recommended. Good all-in-ones are the Tambaqui, Aurender A20 and Lumin P1 (I have a P1 and it has more features than the other 2 all-in-ones I mentioned, and its cheaper). One thing I've discovered recently is local high-rez file playback (in my case via a Lumin L2) beats streaming and CD playback easily, and gets CLOSE to my vinyl setup. IMO it won't be long before digital becomes indistinguishable from analog.

$300USD streamer...Cambridge MXN10 coaxial to

$9000 DAC in the Audio Research Reference CD9 cd player

Sounds wonderful.