As I neared my 75th birthday, I decided that it was time for my “end game” audio system. Thus, for the past 2-1/2 years, I have slowly and carefully upgraded my sources, my amplification, and my cabling – with very pleasing results. At this time, I have:
Digital – Bricasti M19 SACD transport and M21 DAC; Shunyata Sigma V2 Ethernet and DH Labs Air Matrix Cryo analog interconnect cables.
Amplification – Theta Digital Casablanca V preamplifier; McIntosh MC611 mono amplifiers (L, C, & R); Wireworld Silver Eclipse 8 speaker cables and Eclipse 8 analog interconnects.
Currently, I own Revel Ultima Studio (L & R) and Voice (center) loudspeakers as well as two SVS SB-16 subwoofers. I purchased all three Revel speakers in 2004, and they have served me well for the past 20 years. Except when listening to multi-channel SACD for watching Blu-ray concerts, I only use my main left and right speakers. My media room has four walls and a door; its size is around 6,000 cubic feet.
What I have been wrestling with is whether, given my other equipment (which I have no intent on replacing), I should buy new speakers and, if so, which should I consider. Recently, for example, I listened to a pair of Rockport’s Avior IIs, albeit using source components and amplifiers different than mine. They seemed perhaps better in some regards, but not so much so as to make a compelling case to purchase them as an upgrade. Another friend, who just acquired his PS Audio FR30 speakers, is urging me to consider buying a pair of the FR30s.
There certainly are numerous speaker lines out there. Consequently, I decided to post my “dilemma” here and invite others to provide their suggestions (ideally with their reasoning). My absolute top budget is $50K. However, this purchase would be funded by my retirement savings, and I certainly would prefer spending less. Also, maybe the better course is to keep my Revels and be happy and content with what I already have.
With that budget and before you sell those difficult to outperform Studio's, I would insist on an in home comparative audition.
As consumers we simply do not have the years of variety listening ability and experience that some audio professionals possess.
When I was at this point I was replacing Paradigm Studio 100's with Avalon Acoustics Eidolons. The comparative audition was so reveling even my family could hear the stunning improvement in cohesiveness and all around musicality at all listening levels within the first few notes.
This also had the added benefit of easily avoiding the remorseful financial outlay.
Don't miss your yearly cardiology checkups. All the best.
Thank you for your thoughtful response. The nearest Rockport dealer is 250 miles away, and he doesn't make house calls for such a distance. There is a local Magico dealer, but, again, he has expressed similar unwillingness to provide a home demonstration. The same attitude has been conveyed by his local competitor, who is the Estelon dealer here.
I think that I shall ultimately have to (a) do my homework and (b) pray. This is, I suspect, what most audiophiles are reduced to doing these days when deciding on new speakers.
The possibilities are vast, so what specific improvements would you be looking for? At that price level I’d hit an audio show or two (even if it requires a flight) to hear several contenders that interest you to see which ones really “do it” for you.
I would attend a few audio shows. I would NOT be in any hurry to buy speakers since you have really good ones now. I am sure if you find the speaker that you really like, you would be in a position to order them at the show. If I were spending that kind of money I would do that or plan a trip to the nearest city that has reputable dealers carrying brands you are drawn to and then audition in between hitting the sights of the city.
How is your hearing? I'm 62 and my ears ring like crazy. My hearing is ok according to an audiologist (slightly rolled off upper frequencies like you would expect) but they can't do anything about the ringing. I've probably dropped about $45k in the past year, or so. I sometimes question the sanity of that with my hearing being the way that it is....
Don't spend your money.....enjoy what you have......what would happen if something came up and you didn't have enough. Enjoy the music..your system is fine.
Just enjoy more music. Although I'm not a fan of McIntosh and since you love your new Bricasti pieces (ok I'm a bit envious) maybe consider a Bricasti amp. That's the route I would pursue.
changing the main speakers might have a domino effect resulting in changing the Center to match the mains and then the subs.
So…to justify the upgrade (forget money for a second) can you articulate issues you’ve having with your current setup? What’s missing?
I can tell you what sticks out to me: McIntosh amps with Theta preamp…I’m a big proponent of same brand preamp and amp combos to achieve maximum synergy but I’ve done it with mix n match as well. May be try a mcintosh tube preamp?
Speakers don’t stick out much as potential culprit for anything
As always some great questions and suggestions here. I agree with others I wouldn't spend anywhere near that kinda cash without in home audition with your. own gear and environment. Maybe buy used and compare head to head with existing units and sell the ones you dont like. You could roll through several pair of great speakers used with that kind of budget.
Good luck in landing where you want to be. you have a very nice system. I spent somewhere around your budget, not too long ago on Sonos Faber Il Cremonese Speakers and have been very pleased. But as others have said, for that kind of money there is a big universe of very competent, well-made speakers. While hearing them in your room is certainly ideal, auditioning speakers in the dealers showroom is still helpful. I am also a big fan of Revel And I suspect those are doing a good job for you now.
I will echo (pun intended) A previous comment about room treatments. Coincidentally, I just got finished with a room treatment project in my listening room today. Frankly, I was skeptical of how much I would gain. I am pleasantly surprised. I didn’t think I had a bad room but the difference is quite significant and well worth the money. I have auditioned a number of tweaks, such as filters, audiophile switches, etc., and just have not heard enough difference, to my ears, to justify the money. So the improvement from the room treatments was greater than expected, and the cost, of course, would be far less than you sre talking about spending for speakers. Something to consider.
If you’re dead set on replacing the speakers, there are lots of great choices in the 20-50k range. Borresen, Magico, Perlisten, TAD, Elac, high end Sonus Faber, B&W 801/2 d4, Dynaudio confidence line.
Were it me? I’d get a pair of Perlisten s7t’s for 20k and save the extra 30k.
I've only had a real earring once and it was only for a few hours. Too many beers one night in college. Lol.
@ltmandellaI have the stereo going for a couple of hours every night while I work out. My listening room is adjacent to the exercise room. I don't play it loud. Along with the ringing, my ears are real sensitive to loud noises. People talking loudly or my 5 year old granddaughter squealing, for example. I can't hear well in a loud croud.
I've tried going off caffeine. Didn't help. Just gave me a headache.
So it sounds like neither of three dealers want to do an in-home trial which I do believe is both worth doing and justified at this price point
I’m not in the market for speakers, but did recently hear some Pearlstein At my local T+A Dealer when buying my DAC 200 recently…. I would like to hear them in my home one day
Considering your budget versus the cost of these speakers, you can certainly afford to pay return shipping on a couple of different choices from Internet dealers like this, considering no one “ Local to you” Wants to play ball…
I’m planning a drive to Colorado to check out the PS Audio speakers. I’d like to get the FR30’s, but I might have to get the 20’s, because my room isn’t all that big.
You can't have too many speakers. I would take $10k of your money and use it just for you journey. Go and listen to as much and many as you possibly can. I believe I currently have somewhere around 10 pairs of different speakers. They all have their own voice. A few years ago I was visiting my son in San Diego and my wife and son humored me and allowed me to visit a stereo store. They had a room with a million dollar system set up. It sounded really nice, but it didn't curl my toes. They also had some speakers that were in the $10-$20k range. Total toe curlers. We all have unique ears. Take the time and find a toe curler.
Plus 1 for the several different speakers it's like a choir many can be interesting.enjoy the trip and search I have met many wounderful people along the way going across America picking up speakers over the past year from coast to coast.some of it is just part of an adventure.enjoy the music stay healthy. The fr 30s are heavy but I think they ps audio have people to help set up in home.i too hope to go to boulder soon.
I agree with others that attending an audio show or two will be time and money well spent. Hearing other gear will give you perspective and also help you rule out some options. I attended AXPONA this year primarily to hear a broad array of speaker systems and it was very helpful. Three brands stood out for me: QLN, YG Acoustics and the Rockport Aviors. Granted that speakers are not always shown under ideal conditions at the shows, but it will help you narrow the field.
As I neared my 75th birthday, I decided that it was time for my “end game” audio system.
.......
Currently, I own Revel Ultima Studio (L & R) and Voice (center) loudspeakers as well as two SVS SB-16 subwoofers.
At your advanced age of 75, you should probably give more money to your grandson for a house down payment, his audio rig, etc and not spend all your cash on yourself.
Having said that, explore object based audio/atmos/360 reality before mother nature fully retires you. You have only been tinkering with a fossilized old technology called stereo for 60 years. Hence, get a pair of the Revel Gem2 standmounts and set them as Surrounds. Get a pair of their in-wall speakers and put them right above your listening position on either side as heights. 2 Surrounds and 2 heights is all you need.
Thereafter, get a good atmos processor such as the Marantz AV10. There is a sizeable/increasing catalog of atmos mixes (artists) these days.
I’m similar age and I have Sopra 3’’s plus a pair of REL 212 SX. My amplification is a pair of PrimaLuna EVO 400 power amps so tubes plus the EVO 400 preamp. I use many Shunyata and Cardas cables as well. I’m very happy with the Focal pairing. I’m sure the FR30’s would also be great. They do offer an in home trial period. That’s hard to beat.
Plesse don’t forget horns. A vast generalisation would be Tannoys/Khorns are slower and Focal/Magicos are faster. Better put it’s a different sound. Vandersteens leave a lot of sox on the floor
Sonus Faber keeps coming up. Hymn.
I suggest looking at speakers that have a radically different presentation than your Revels that will also work with your current electronics. Since you have lots of amplifier power and subs maybe a set of Maggie 2.7x. They are only $6k so you can save some of your retirement money. Keep the Revels and swap when you get the itch fort a change.
I would not spend that kind of money on any audio component if I was in my mid 70's unless money was not an issue.
One hearing is not as good,
Two no new money coming in,
Three do you really need an upgrade or are you just wanting a change? 20 years happy is a good thing you may just make things worse by a change, I know I've done that.
Many have asked what is it you think your lacking? if you cannot answer that your just looking for a change.
I’m your age give or take a few and don’t listen to those who say don’t spend your money-I say enjoy it! My wife, bless her, always supports me adding to the system. I guess she figures we will pass the system onto someone. So like someone suggested, i did get new hearing aids. My suggestion is treat the room before changing anything else. If you’ve already done so, then go for it. Take the family on a trip to an audio show. get them hooked. Best,
At your advanced age of 75, you should probably give more money to your grandson for a house down payment, his audio rig, etc and not spend all your cash on yourself
yes, that sounds sensible even though getting into his circumstances that's not our business. But I am constantly amazed by money being no object here.
I'm not quite as old (69) but I have had similar thoughts. I'm running a pair of Thiel CS6 speakers with Krell amplification. I have been to 3 audio shows and I have thus far concluded that to significantly better my system I'm going to have to spend in the neighborhood of six figures. A few speakers have stood out (MBL 101E, Von Schweikert Ultra 11, Sonus Faber Aida plus a few others) but for the most part my Thiels sound about as good as anything I've heard. I've only heard the Revel Ultima Studios once but I would put them in the same league.
My point is that I don't think you are going to do significantly better than your Revels without spending big bucks. The stress of hunting down a new pair of speakers that you realistically can't demo in your home and taking the chance that they are not a significant improvement (or maybe they would be worse) is not worth it. If you had $10 million in Invidia stock then what the heck? Live a little. But with the situation you have described this sounds like an endeavor that will have a lot of consternation and could easily end badly.
This graph is for a 65-year-olds chances, so not exactly the 75 I quoted. Now, you can say that its not that big a chance, to which I would say, I like the odds.
At your advanced age of 75, you should probably give more money to your grandson for a house down payment, his audio rig, etc and not spend all your cash on yourself.
What? At some "advanced age" we should limit what for many of us has been a lifetime pursuit? That's BS.
Perhaps @deep_333is waiting for his elders to fund his adult future. That's quite common with kids today.
First, of all -- to ALL of you, a big THANK YOU! I really appreciate your taking the time to respond to my original posting. It means a lot, as I value all of the responses.
I see that I provided an inadequate description initially, so permit me to supplement it. My media room has already been treated -- the walls (with multiple acoustical panels), the floor (with acoustical padding under the carpet), and the ceiling (broken up into two heights). Since I use this room for watching movies as well as listening to music, the actual speaker configuration is 7.4 (no ceiling speakers). My side speakers are Revel Ultima Embraces, and my rear speakers are Arendal 1723 S THX. They are driven by a Krell FPB 200c amplifier and a Krell KAV-250a amplifier, respectively. Also, in the rear, I have two SVS 3000 Micro subwoofers just to help smooth the frequency response throughout the room from around 60 Hz down. My preamplifier/processor (for HDMI inputs) is a Theta Casablanca V. It is a truly fine preamplifier; there isn't anything else like it on the market (certainly not the ones made by McIntosh, Trinnov, Lyngdorf, Storm Audio, etc.).
Insofar as what I am trying to achieve, I look at this upgrade to "end game" audio system status as my "last hurrah" -- and then I am finished. I have to say, though, that looking at, listening to, considering purchase of, and ultimately buying audio equipment has been my favorite pastime for nearly five decades. Going forward, I suppose, I'll focus on how good (or poor) the recordings to which I listen sound. Already, I do like how the music I play sounds in my media room. What I would like to achieve is a little greater 3-dimensionality, a little greater accuracy in those faint sounds (such as a gently struck triangle at the back of the orchestra, better definition of singers in a massed chorus (e.g., Carmina Burana or Ode to Joy), etc. -- all while maintaining the wonderful musicality I now enjoy. I think that my source components and preamplifier send a signal to my amplifiers that contains all that I seek. Whether my current McIntosh amplifiers or my Revel Studio speakers are the reason that these "nth degrees" are missing, I have no idea. I do know, however, that for good reasons I am not about to change my amplifiers, and I am hoping that current state-of-the-art speakers (my Studios are now 21 years old) will provide the solution.
At present, the loudspeakers I am considering are the Rockport Avior IIs, the Magico S3 (2023 version), the Estellon XB Mk IIs, and the PS Audio FR30s. Thanks to the suggestions made in response to my posting, I need to add the JBL K2 S9900 and the Perlisten S7T Limited Edition. Unfortunately, in every case, determining which speakers I ultimately purchase will be an analytical exercise because I cannot listen to them first, ideally placed in my media room. In a very bizarre way though, I guess that is just part of the fun.
Please keep your thoughts and opinions coming. I really do welcome them.
Agree it's best to demo yourself. OP, I like your list.
When I was shopping for speakers, I demoed the AviorII (sounded veiled but of one piece) and Magico A5 (better highs, but seemed not balanced top to bottom) at AXPONA - I suspect poor show room conditions. My someday end game target was a used Magico M3. The Vimberg Mino D sounded fantastic so I purchased the demo pair (by blowing up my budget). Estellon almost always sound great, and wished that PS Audio would have made their FR30s available for demo at this AXPONA. I've also heard and loved the S3 2023 comparably with the M3.
What I would like to achieve is a little greater 3-dimensionality, a little greater accuracy in those faint sounds (such as a gently struck triangle at the back of the orchestra, better definition of singers in a massed chorus (e.g., Carmina Burana or Ode to Joy), etc. -- all while maintaining the wonderful musicality I now enjoy.
The first speaker that came to mind is the Joseph Audio Pearl or maybe even the Perspective 2 for about half the price if you’re also using subs for 2 channel. Other speakers I’ve heard that do very well producing a 3D soundstage are ProAc, Wilson, Vandersteen, and Usher. Rockport can do this too, but with your amps and considering your current speakers I’d be a little concerned they might be a little too polite up top, but that’s just a guess. I also thought the Magico Q7s I heard were great but didn’t have quite the musicality/emotion the others generated — maybe just a little too clinical for me. But given what you’re looking for the JA Pearls would be atop my list and are true end-game speakers IMO and certainly worth a trip to go out of your way to hear. Best of luck!
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