In a way high-end audio to seniors is what shortwave radio was to our parents. For the technical minded and interesting it was a passion. So to some extent I would expect the high-end audio becomes a much smaller segment of people. Kids grew up in the last couple of decades will probably pursue something a little bit different. But eventually as some people get money they’re more likely to start enjoying high end audio. But it is unlikely to re-game the Pinnacle it has been.
Where are the young audiophiles?
I find it alarming that 95% of all audiophiles are seniors.According to a consultant at my local HI-FI store,young people don't seem interested in high-end equipment.They listen to music on their phone.Sooner or later, all the great neighborhood HI-FI stores will not be able to remain open. Kind of sad,don't you think?
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There are many examples of things that most under 30, even 40, that hold little or no interest in. Look at Stamp collecting - killed by email and text. Model Trains used to be the "World's greatest Hobby". Coin collecting will be gone soon due to Venmo, Bitcoin etc., Plastic models, I bet everyone over 60 here built at least one plastic model. I agree though that the sky is not falling, but it will change. And many people do not like change, but it happens whether they want it to or not. Sadly, too many people think any change is bad. |
I think this is far from true. There's a big resurgence in hi-fi here in Los Angeles. Bars like Gold Line and In Sheep's Clothing are reinvigorating the interest, plus brands like Common Wave and Ojas have huge followings with high-end designers and lots of young clientele. I think these communities are skewing toward vintage and the Japanese/Kissa vibe, and less toward the "hi-tech", brutish systems of the 90s/early-2000s. I work at a record label and we're selling more vinyl than ever. The plants are totally bottlenecked due to the covid surge, which I think is being driven by people under 40. We're also not lingering in forums that disparage entire genres of music, lol. Maybe Millenials and Gen Z have realized that life is too short to bicker on forums. |
A lot of it comes down to expendable income---older audiophiles have the income to buy more expensive equipment than the younger folks. Plus stereo equipment back then was not as expensive as it is nowadays. Some of the younger audiophiles I follow on YouTube are into headphones and smaller headphone amps. Some of my younger friends are getting into vinyl but they're not into 'fancy' stereos (yet)---they get their enjoyment out playing the records. I just posted something similar to this a few days ago. |
The biggest issue is that it’s a rich mans hobby and not to many of us young people can afford it. Most of my friends are into headphones and have been for years since they is what budget allows. Do I buy a house and/or car or do I drop it on gear? I’m 34 and that’s what most of my peers are going through. I didn’t really get into “hifi” until grad school where I also got a part time job at BestBuy and put those accommodations to good use and stocked up on a lot of home theater and entry level gear. Over time I traded my way up to some decent hifi gear. We young people are here, just give us time to pay off our student loans, buy a house and get the disposable y’all have of the hobby! By then, we will be your age. Lmfao. |
Check out /r/audiophile on Reddit to see what the younger crowd is into. There’s a lot of folks into good budget stuff, but there’s a strong streak of that Audioholics / measurement-first, qualitative-listening-never attitude that can be a bit insufferable (there is a non-trivial number of people there who insist that all DACs sound the same, differences between amps are minimal, high bitrate MP3s sound as good as lossless, and that cables don’t make any difference). |
@jundaku - I think you're on the right track. It's hard to really get into the true audiophile level gear until later in life when you hopefully have more disposable income. I'm a 43 year old family man and over the last 15ish years have purchased more audio gear that I should have and I'm still playing on the low end of things. I'm currently into the game about $10,000 in round numbers including a home theater receiver and two stereo integrated amplifiers. I think that the audiophile world is likely always going to be primarily supported and "financed" by the older generation. |
I visited a local audio shop that opened its doors here in Minneapolis just last November. The two proprietors are Gen X, and they see plenty of opportunity coming as their generation and younger elevate in incomes, and they see LP's as the gateway for this. Vinyl has gotten some of the younger generations connected with the joy of actually devoting time to just listening to music as an intentional experience. And, then, when you get to hear it done really well....there's always a very small slice of the populace who just have to hear it like that. They're hooked! It will never be a big slice, and it never was. |
This is as tough as realities can get, but haven't seniors always been prime fodder for predatory sales tactics? In a time when anyone can buy a damn fine sounding amp IC for less than $5, and educational resources are abundant, it's going to get harder and harder to sell copper wire for $50 per foot. |
Add to that how ultra-elitist the ’hobby’ is. It’s not just about spending more money than 99% of people can afford. You also need to have ears sophisticated enough to be completely floored by the difference a single capacitor made. So it’s really only accessable to those upon whom God bestowed both outrageous wealth AND ears more sensitive than an oscilloscope. It’s a bit of a niche demographic, see? |
We do exist. I’m 24 and I am just starting to build my first stereo system (I have done the Audeze thing for 3 years before this). I do have to say though I don’t think I would be at this stage this early in my life if it wasn’t for the fact that my dad is and has always been a huge audiophile. Of people my age, I only know one other person who is into audio. I think accessibility is the largest issue for younger people. Most people my age would never have been exposed to this world and if they have it’s typically the kind of exposure that make audiophile products seem like snake oil. Add on to that the fact that this isn’t a cheap hobby or a particularly space efficient one either and it mostly comes across as inconvenient to the uninitiated. That, I think, goes back to my audiophile upbringing because, as much as there are distinct differences between listening to music on a generic tv soundbar versus a pair of decent floorstanding speakers and amplification, source, etc, being able to appreciate and articulate those differences (consciously and subconsciously) is a learned skill. This is a skill that I was fortunate to start and continue to develop without realizing for as long as I can remember since my father always had music playing through how various systems over the years. People my age (in most cases) simply have not had the time or experience yet needed to appreciate this funny hobby. |
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Interesting topic, I am 50 and just spent the weekend over at a buddies house listening to his vinyl setup with 2 reviewers and well respected audio designer/builder. I enjoyed the gear and the people but the music was some of the worst I have heard. Just think if you are a young person interested in the hobby and all you hear at audio shows and read in online reviews is how something sounds with old classical, old jazz, new jazz, new classical, old jazz, new jazz, old classical, blah blah blah it’s no wonder younger people aren’t into it. I love the hobby and I am open to some of the older jazz and blues music but my listening this weekend was typical of audiophiles and what they tend to gravitate to. I almost feel not only do reviewers lead a lot of audiophiles down the wrong path on gear selection but also on what a lot of us are listening to as well by what they are referencing to what they used in the review...the recommended LPs in the magazines is the perfect example. My point is we need some younger reviewers, reviewing gear that’s more obtainable and most importantly talking about how the gear performs with music they are more familiar with. |
I’m in my 40’s, definitely not a “senior”. There are many of us my age or younger in this hobby. They just aren’t’t vocal about their age and maybe not spending a lions share of time on the forums here. There will always be an appeal. Look at how fine timepieces came back and digital calculator watches thankfully died (Apple watch and it’s ilk are lame, I’m already carrying a damn iPhone people!). Quality in anything that doesn’t age out is always appreciated at some point. Believe me when I say you want digital streaming to keep this hobby of ours alive. If all we had was cds it would go the way of shortwave radio with younger generations. Furthermore, this is directed to some of the commentators here that think critical listening is only the realm of Gandalf with a cane and bad hearing that saw The Beatles in an armory (😬). It’s not. I work in a very technical Data Centre role in IT and love this hobby and always will. I’m obsessed with high quality music, engineering and the experience of a sublime listening experience in my living room. Some people just don’t realize it yet until they have a life changing experience shared with them by someone older. |
I think there's a market to be had, but it's not going to be what their parents and grandparents bought. They don't want stacks of large components and large tower speakers that occupy lots of room and consume lots of power. Younger folks prefer compact, versatile and stylish components. I think the PS Audio Sprout was an excellent example of this. I have a halfway decent amount of gear, but if I had to live in a small space, I could be pretty happy with Vista Audio Spark amp powering a pair of Omega Super 3i speakers and a small sub. |
I’m 69, HS class of same. HiFi boomed as the pot smoking generation came along...not a coincidence IMO! The High End arose as my generation matured and prospered. The store where I work opened in 1975 and rode the wave. We are now ageing out and the current generation is not as into HiFi as we were...gaming is more their thing, and while many are just as into music as we were, the science of sound reproduction is less alluring to them. Or so it seems to me based on my observations and my own kids. |
mijostyn HT right. The only hi end store close to me WAS 80% home theater. Gone two years ago. teo_audio Ludicrous statement. I’m sure department stores feel the same way. Retail is ever evolving and it doesn’t care what you like. OPGo to any HiFi show and you will notice a minority of is old bastids. Except for the exhibitors. |
hard to spare the 4+-figure chunk of change required for this hobby, if one is struggling to pay off exorbitant student loans for non-commercially productive degree programs, while living in parents' basement. basically it is older bankers, engineers, medicos, lawyers, successful entrepreneurs who drive this hobby. working class folk like me are extreme outliers. |
I’m 31 and have been pursuing the hobby for 5 years or so. A big part of what got me into it was when most bands I followed starting selling physical records at their shows, that got me collecting other records and then realizing I wasn’t happy with the playback I was getting on an old Sony TT and pioneer receiver, I began to research. It has been a tremendous amount of fun. A lot of friends around my age are also budding audiophiles, or at least appreciate trying to get better sound than sonos or Bluetooth speakers. I live in NYC and a lot of the record shops now stock pretty decent budget audiophile gear to get people itching for some more. As others have said, if record sales are up I wouldn’t worry about this hobby dying off anytime soon. vinyl me please, which a lot of younger people use (a subscription record service) just partnered with acoustic sounds, so that should open the door to a lot of folks wanting to get more out of their equipment. On a somewhat related note, I haven’t been on this forum a lot recently because I was so upset with the dismissive views by some members on rap and hip hop, really made me not want to support a place where members go completely off topic of the OP and make sweeping generalizations about a genre they have little to no understanding of. If you don’t like rap that’s fine! There’s already too much obstruction in most public discourse let’s not let that sentiment seep into this forum. We should all want this to be a constructive and productive space :-) |
"...So it’s really only accessable to those upon whom God bestowed both outrageous wealth AND ears more sensitive than an oscilloscope. It’s a bit of a niche demographic, see?..." The best part of this hobby is putting together affordable systems that sound great. I spent a lot of money learning this but you don't have to. |
Perhaps our job is to introduce the next generation to the magic, when normal times come back and the neighbors or relatives are visiting; ask some of the next generation if they've ever listened to vinyl? If they look indifferent; just repeat "I mean really listened to music on vinyl." Now its time to spin a record, most anything will do. The point is you're not introducing, lyrics, a beat or an artist. You're introducing a dynamic, a new experience. The hobby will follow. I have two nephews and one nice who are working on their first home 2 channel systems. Of course my daughter loves vinyl; all that took was playing Adel's 19 (on vinyl). The proof, she forgets to turn off my turntable and doesn't always put records away when she comes home. I don't really mind. |
95%?? Where did you get that percentage? Inflated. When I was 16, I saved and with my fathers help got a nice beginner stereo. His Air Force career started as a radar engineer and he loved electronics. That helped. I had much more money in my first system than LP’s. The younger generation is more mobile. Hard to be footloose and fancy free with high end equipment. However what they lack in equipment they make up for in owning music. Many “senior” audiophiles care for their equipment over content. My daughter, is a lighting tech and owns music from well over 400 artists, but she is content with a convenient Sonos system. Although not ‘high fidelity’, it is in constant use. Both for listening and background. For the price the Sonos sound is very good. My daughter will jump from Sibelius to Tom Waits to Miles Davis, and then will move to Garage Band to mix her own stuff. Perpetual change at work. If the definition of an audiophile is based on the equipment one owns, she is not an audiophile. However if the definition is based on a passion for music, she definitely is an audiophile! |
Back in the days of yore (1976-78) when I had my first good corporate job at 24 buying HiFi gear of quality was far more affordable than today. Here's what I bought from my local audio store: AGI 511 preamp ($450), Son of Ampzilla ($420), Mitsubishi DA-F10 tuner ($280), Ariston RDII TT ($270), SME 3009 arm ($150 - new!), GAS Sleeping Beauty E mc cartridge ($200), Verion SUT ($375), DCM Time Windows ($660/pr). Add some Verion Triaxial ICs ($30/pr) and Mogami 2477 coax speaker cable ($1/ft). So for about $2K+ this was a killer system then! Today one would have to spend $20K+ for similar quality! The bar has been raised too high for too many! |
@jundaku. “The biggest issue is that it’s a rich mans hobby and not to many of us young people can afford it.....” I can assure you that when I was young in college and the years afterwards... it was a rich man’s hobby. I saw old guys go in and buy a top of the line Audio Research component costing what I made in six months. I scraped and saved and bought used equipment... lower end stuff. I read endlessly, trying to piece together my together for a next to nothing. My first non-school loan was for an amplifier. So, while I can’t say getting older is fun. I truly enjoy being able to listen to a $22K component and pretty casually say, “sounds great, I’ll take one... could I hear the new preamp also.” Of course, this is in my home because my audio guy brings stuff to my house for me to audition. I can’t begin to tell you after fifty years of passionate pursuit, how great it feels to be one of those old rich guys. Work hard, dream, and one day you’ll be lucky enough to say the same. |
I am under 40 years old. Here’s my setup, experiments and opinions on my DAC mod. https://youtu.be/yE1_gxCJH88 |
