I would listen some more. I am sure your listening was analytical oriented… trying to identify differences. This is how most people do it.
I recommend going back in and just listen to the music for the sake of music. Try not to be analytical. Find the speakers that move you emotionally, that make you want to listen to more music. These may not be the ones where you can clearly hear the musician move his foot… or you get the slightly greater slap in the face with bass.
Might also try B&W and Sonus Faber.
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If you have the room i'd take the Cornwall over the Forte it's just a better integrated driver set and superior mid-range horn IMO also the bass is cleaner from my listening. L100 wasn't something i liked personally it was ok but lacked the dynamics of the horn system. May want to consider the mission 770 as well its getting some great reviews and most like it better than the L100.
If i was looking at JBL and Klipsch I'd look at JBL's horn speakers, they tend to be better balanced then the Klipsch stuff. if not more expensive.
If you are also a low-level listener as well, then horns all the way.
the paradigms are going to be a totally different sound then the horn speakers. less dynamic but maybe a smoother top end and deeper but not as detailed bass. that really general though as I've not heard them.
I ran LaScalas for years and loved them, recently moved away from horns to Spendor D9.2 and they do many things better but i miss the dynamics and immediacy of the horns and the ability to sound great with dynamics at lower listening levels.
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Listen to more speakers and listen to your three favorite songs, one from each genre. The advice above from @ghdprentice @doyle3433 Doyle is solid. It’s going to be hard to find the perfect speaker for all three genre’s in my experience.
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What are your current speakers, what improvements are you looking for, what sound characteristics are most important to you, and what’s your budget?
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Of the horn speakers you listed, the Volti Razz is the top choice.
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@soix Currently I have a pair of Tyler Timekeeper and they are beautiful. They will be moving to a different system. They are very sweet, very musical, nice soundstage. I feel I'm looking for more weight, loudness / dynamics..
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Klipsch have horrible Xover parts all China specials ,how would I know ,
I have been upgrading speakers for 20 years and owned 3 Of Klipsch top Heritage speakers.
you are much better off per $$dollar spent with Spatial audio technologies
they use world class Beyma tweeter,mid driver and powered sub built in ,
land Xover upgrade choices and 4-5:models to choose from Clayton Shaw is a very good guy and engineer .if you call him he will answer any questions and these speakers are excellent midsize open baffle speakers ,with a money back trial period. Just check them out great build, as well as a very defined natural presentation ,not beamy and in your face ,a very Big sweetspot and excellent tight tuneful Bass.
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Listen for hours IF you can’t do a home demo… what’s exciting for three songs may prove VERY fatiguing over a longer listening session. Enjoy the journey and the music
best
jim
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@doyle3433 ,
I am using JBL L100 Classic speakers in my office system. They are on the dedicated stands, and I am driving them with a McIntosh Integrated amp. The sound was very good. Then I added a single SVS sub, and the sound went from very good to amazing. They are not like the JBL’s of the 60-70’s, which were very bright on top but with a deep bottom end. The new versions do not seem to go as low in the bass as the originals, but the mids and highs are much better. You may or may not need a sub but in my large room, the bass was thin without them.
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If you like Cornwall‘s then you might ought tah try Tandberg’s, aka Tanny’s.
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Where are you located?
I am always amazed that people seeking help do not think to mention where they live.
Someone on this forum could be next door to you and own the exact speaker you want to hear.
My Takes-
Budget $3-4k
Age 28
Marital Status Single
State Kentucky
Any right?
I agree you have to do more listening. Lotta more stuff out there.
Patience will be rewarded.
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Hi I have had Klipsch Heresy IV's and Forte IV's. I didn't have the courage to buy and carry Cornwall's into my small place.
I didn't know what I was hearing until I head NSMT 100's. The difference between a horn and a silk dome covered tweeter was large. So before you buy more horns I would suggest hearing non horns then it may help you pick. I did like the sound of the Forte's over the Heresy's.
Best
jh
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My first choice would be the Cornwall’s, JBL makes some great speakers as well. but You might want to look beyond the L100’s
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JBL L100T’s are on my wish list - ’T’ for titanium-domed tweeters, I believe.
They were highly recommended by a friend who was specific about the ’T’s being the most desirable of the variants.
I took a chance on two other recommendations of his and his advice was accurate.
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I prefer my Heresy IIIs over the IVs (I owned a pair for through "break-in" and sold 'em) because the titanium mid horn sounds better than the "polyimide." I mean way better. I'd like to hear Forte IIIs for that reason although my Heresy IIIs are so good I'm in no hurry to wrestle those things into my house.
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Philharmonic BMRs are very very good. I have them in my similar sized living room.
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Check out JBL L112 or ACOUSTIC RESEARCH AR 9 if you don’t mind a big speaker both old school
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Keep the Volti ... add Salk to taste!
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+1 for @audioman58 comments. But would expand that to almost all speaker use cheap crossover parts. Unless the OP is an equipment junky and likes change for change, they may want to consider upgrading the crossover parts first in their current speakers.
Have not seen any speaker manufacturer who uses the best parts, They all cheap out at some point even the brands well into 5 and 6 figure territory.
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Mission 770's? Not the last word in detail, but the overwhelming opinion is it makes you want to listen longer.
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That size room, I would give the Heresy IV a good listen. Angled base projecting drivers at seated ear height, and alters angle of reflection off floor and ceiling. Toe in to avoid side wall reflections.
Square rooms can be challenging, I would look to make the rear wall behind you non-reflective,
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Hello all, I truly appreciate all the feedback regarding my post.
My absolute top budget is $6k, without selling my plasma and a vital organ.. I am intrigued by the Spatial, spent some of my evening reading up on them as well as the NSMT's. I would prefer made in the US, our friends to the north, or the UK. That is not to say that I am ethnocentric. I have bought and sold plenty of gear from China, Japan and elsewhere. I mean have you all seen the Line Magnetic Western Electric recreation horn system? A bit dear for my billfold, but a man can dream right? Also on my bucket list, Luxman.. I have owned speakers from TDL, Mission, NHT, EV, Rogers, Kilpsch, Morrison, Design Acoustics (really?) and my current pair of Tyler's which i do love. I refurbished a horn and low end cab pulled from an old theater, 1940's International Projector Co. (the drivers themselves are Jensen), it sure sounds fun in my second garage. (it spent one month in the house, at least the spouse gave it a chance)
It may be elusive what I'm attempting to get across. The sweetness, soundstage and warmth of the Tyler's, the accuracy of the brit's and the dynamics/raise the arm hair of the Klipsch. I do not wish to offend anyone, we all have our own tastes, we all find what we enjoy in a speaker or system. I feel I'm as close as I've ever been.
I am a man in mid fifties, and never thought I'd hear myself utter, "remember the golden days", but here I am. I miss picking up my best friend and going to audio stores near and far. I miss working in a proper hifi shop, the best one here in NE Ohio, "The Speaker Shop". Miss being able to sit and audition whatever it was seeking.
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I bought a new pair of speakers earlier this year and demo'd all the speakers you mention. I bought Charney Companions because they had more of the strong "right there in the room" imagery that I suspect you're looking for judging by the list of speakers you are considering.
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@johnss
I have a hard time believing my Rockport Avior ii speakers have any cheap parts although I didn’t delve that deep into it. The outstanding reviews and comments on here and WBF were enough for me.
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@doyle3433, since you mentioned listening "mostly to Jazz", I would recommend adding Revel to your list. Frankly, however, the Revel line in your budget range will do justice to just about every genre of music, as will your MoFi Ultradeck+M. Full disclosure: I own a pair of Revel and your MoFi deck, powered by a McIntosh amplifier.
This would be a stretch for your budget, if your intention is to buy new, but I would REALLY, REALLY recommend you do some serious seat-time with a pair of Aerial Acoustics 6T, even if you have to do some significant travelling to spend time with them in, of course, a scheduled and carefully orchestrated, critical listening session. I'm not terribly familiar with your amplification source, however. The Aerial require a lot of juice. So, make certain your amp can generate the kind of current (not watts) the Aerial need to sign like the angels.
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The Volti Razz sounds excellent and is the most refined of the ones on your list. My only reservation is that they sounded a bit too smooth when I heard them however the crossovers can easily be adjusted by changing the snap in resistors with some guidance by Greg of volti who is very responsive.
A bit more midrange and these would have been perfect.
They would also have perfect synergy with your system.
The volti speakers greatly improve on the klipsch heritage sound because they are super well braced and have no cabinet colorations. makes them sound more like music and less like PA speakers.
I would not even consider the paradigms, no offense.
I am not a fan of the JBL voicing and tonal balance.
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I will strongly agree with ghdprentice above. I have owned the Rogue Cronus Magnum II integrated, and currently the Rogue Pharaoh II integrated. All the while I have paired with Sonus faber. Initially the Venere 2.5 and now the Sonetto V speakers. Rogue amps match very well with Sonus faber, and whatever your budget, SF has speakers to match from the new Lumina Series, to the Sonetto's and further up the $$ chain, SF speakers sound fantastic with Rogue amps. Good luck!
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if you liked Tyler then there are these:
T2 Floorstanders – tyleracoustics.com
which are supposed to be (by some margin) the best speakers that Tyler had produced to date. Dannie Ritchie and GR Research had a major hand in them.
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What can be the suggested upgrade for the Jazz Music. I usually don't listen to any other genre than Jazz. So I deserve to enjoy it in better and quality speaker. any suggestion will be welcomed. Thank you already. ☺
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@ronboco , I completely understand. I was in the exact same boat. But before you can determine what is used, you have to understand what good parts are for a crossover first. I have owned the Aviors and have owned several pairs of Wilsons. They all use decent but cheap parts. They are OK parts but far, far, far away from the best parts.
Once you hear a speaker with copper foil caps, Mills wire wound resistors and high quality inductors your jaw will drop.
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BTW, don't take my word for it, pull a woofer out and take a look at the quality level of the parts used. Then sum up those costs, not very much considering what the retail cost is.
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@johnss
I am curious now and will look into what is used in my Aviors. Which brand of speakers uses the components you are talking about?
Happy listening !
Ron
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I completely understand. I was in the exact same boat. But before you can determine what is used, you have to understand what good parts are for a crossover first. I have owned the Aviors and have owned several pairs of Wilsons. They all use decent but cheap parts. They are OK parts but far, far, far away from the best parts.
Once you hear a speaker with copper foil caps, Mills wire wound resistors and high quality inductors your jaw will drop.
This statement is proof enough that you have no clue what you’re speaking of, that and you likely haven’t owned speakers anywhere near the caliber of Aviors. Rockport actually customizes the crossover of each individual speaker to account for the minute differences of each individual driver, so no two pair of speakers will have the exact same inductor/cap specs. The benefit of this should far exceed that of merely using the most expensive/boutique parts money can buy.
A good speaker is more than the sum of high quality parts.
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I almost bought some Tyler H3.5's and probably would have liked them. Tyler's speakers are still at the top of my list that i would like to hear though I'd prefer to hear Tyler's designs if he does some himself. I have owned numerous of Danny's speakers though I wasn't aware they were designed by him for many of them. They were great and i had one pair in my main system over 10 years. Nothing against Danny, but at some point I wanted to hear someone else's influence. If you want heft, dynamics, and loudness, I recommend my current favorite, KEF 107's. For my tastes also detailed yet smooth. I've only had them for 1 year, but they continue to impress me every day. Best I've owned in 30 year search. I was willing to and did spend much more, but landed on these. They're great for jazz and rock, but that really depends on whether or not you like their sound signature. They're the only speakers my girlfriend got upset about when she thought I was going to sell them, so I guess I have to keep them.
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another thread that's over 50% BS in the comments
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@helomech, first you have educate yourself as to what the best high quality best performing parts are. Once you comprehend this, and know how to recognize them, then as mentioned before, don't take my word for it, pull the woofer out and take a look for yourself. Do you see copper foil caps int their crossovers? No. Do you see foil inductors in their Crossovers? No, Do you see Mills wire wound resistors in their crossovers? No.
Agree, Rockport and others spend lots of time selecting parts for their crossovers, but they are all inexpensive parts. Sum up the total cost of these parts, and it may surprise you.
Why not offer a model with the best parts, At this price point folks would pay more for what they completely unaware of what they are missing.
Once you hear the same speakers with the ultimate parts, you can't go back.
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@johnss
You’re presuming the most expensive parts result in the best performance. This is often not the case. I’ve heard speakers that used iron-core inductors and electrolytic caps on the woofer section outperform speakers employing air-core inductors/and high end poly caps. If the drivers used in the former are better than those of the latter, that will far exceed the quality difference in crossover parts. The vast majority of speaker distortion comes from the drivers and cabinet design, not the crossover parts. There is as much voodoo BS in the crossover part industry as there is in cables—many lofty claims with little or zero data to back it up.
Maybe you should mention some specific speaker models that you claim outperform the likes of Rockport Aviors. We’d all like to know just what we need to audition to hear what we’re missing. 😆
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@doyle3433
The fact that you have Klipsch on your prefered list indicates to me (at least), that you value high efficiency and, perhaps, have some level emotiional attachment to the brand and/or vintage American nameplates. All valid reasons for choosing what to place in front of you in your listening space.
I’m not sure how adventurous you are, but if you’re leaning in the direction of Klipsch, please note there are significant sonic improvements to be gained with some simple upgrades/tweaks. If you love the Klipsch, but would like a bit more "polite British loudspeaker" flavor to them, you can have both. There’s plenty of info out there if you are interested. We’ve been doing Klipsch mods for decades and the gains can be pretty spectacular.
I agree with @glennewdick that it’s hard to beat the sound quality of high efficiency speakers at lower volume levels. Having some simblance of dynamic range, detail, and bandwidth at levels just above the threshold of hearing is sight to behold. Just substitute ears for eyeballs and you’ll get the idea.
Related to the internals: We’ve drilled down pretty deep into speaker guts for a while now. Admiittedly, our experience gets off a few exits before six figure monoliths, but we’ve universally found that when more money is invested in parts (including cabling), sound quality improvements range from incremental to <insert expletive here>. I’d also like to note that there are other factors, such as cable termination methods, that matter -- a lot. Applying "tweaks" to a speaker that you consider a masterpiece in it’s factory form may result in the speaker more endearing to you. Or, it may not. It will sound "different". Whether you’ve made it sound "better" or just painted a mustache on the Mona Lisa is highly subjective.
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@waytoomuchstuff
seriously ? Did he say that as soon as they arrived, he wanted to rip the speaker into pieces, replace parts and put them back together?
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@grislybutter
At the end of OPs opening comments was a request inviting comments and suggestions. I was responding to that request.
My "comment" was that IF the OP was leaning towards the Klipsch but wanted a little different sonic character, then there is a pathway to get there. For starters, $10 worth of Dynamat on horn bodies goes a long way to improve the warmth, focus, and detail of the speakers. Sonic gains can be made while keeping all major factory installed components intact with other simple "mods." Selectively replacing factory crossover components is actually #4 on our list of recommended upgrades. Custom, hand-built crossovers is pretty far down our list, but highly recommended if there's enough headroom in the budget for them.
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@waytoomuchstuff
I know little about the engineering part but why wouldn't Klipsch implement your $10 magic for such a huge gain?
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@grislybutter
Excellent question. I retired in 2016 as a Klipsch dealer. About a year before my retirement, Klipsch was attaching a rubberized material to the front of the horn bodies in their Reference Series speakers. So, it looks like someone there was paying attention to this. I haven’t kept up with Klipsch after 2016. Might be worth looking into in my spare time to see if horn body dampening made its way into the current Heritage lineup.
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@waytoomuchstuff ok that make sense.
Klipsch seems like a big and competitive brand and they must know what they are doing
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Try Elac 247's. Great balance between detailed and dynamic.
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+1 Volti Razz - heard them at the last AXPONA - sounded great.
For my foray into flea watt amps, I wanted neutral uncolored speakers efficient enough to be driven by my 300B 8w SET amps. Klipsch speakers, a long established company with many fans, seemed rather colored compared to the Volti's offerings. So I recently purchased the next model up the Volti Rival 100db for increased efficiency.
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@helomech, yep completely understand. Was the exact same response I had when another person mentioned it to me.
Very few of the top speaker manufacturers use the best parts. Sonus Faber on some of their top models has just started. If you look inside the latest models from SF, you will see a better level of parts. On their less expensive models, they still use pretty inexpensive parts.
A good friend of mine has a pair of Maxx 3s, They sound pretty good stock, but he built an external crossover out of the best parts, copying the original. Once you hear it, really tough to go back. Better imaging, better soundstage depth, better microdynamics, less smearing of the sound.
An iron core inductor has so much hysteresis it can't compete with an air core inductor let alone a copper foil inductor.
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