Power cord length

@nyev 

@audphile1 

I spoke with Audioquest, who stated that "there is no difference in the cabling between braided and unbraided." I make the assumption that about one foot of cabling is wasted by braiding all the strands. They have lost quite a bit of dough by braiding!

Based on my experience, girth trumps length. You'll want the greatest isolation.

Hi. Its my expirien after trying a 2 mtr Ansuz D and a 4 mtr Ansuz D that the 4 mtr was better.
Like gdhprentive above also expiriences.

Acording to Ansuz they could however not hear that a 10 mtr compared to a 4 mtr was better.

Thats without knowing what system they tried this expirience on.

I think most of us know that the higher level system without any weak link in the chain, the more revealing all tweaks are.

so in a ultra highend system you must have min 2 mtr powercords in lower level system you might not get the benefit from the long powercabels.

regards

I don't dispute these claims but I've never been in a position to compare two identical cables of different lengths.

I can believe that PCs with built in conditioners are subject to improvement with length, but I don't want power conditioning PCs.

So I use US cables and plugs in a 230V zone, how does this work out?

Less voltage drop with 230V.....LOL

Get a power cord long enough to run back to the source of the electricity. You have to sneak it onto the poles (or get it into the ground if you have buried utilities) but it's worth it. You can save some effort by putting a small nuclear reactor in your yard (don't tell the neighbors), or solar use solar cells with a gigantic storage battery. Both of these will ultimately save on power cord length.

@mceljo Wrote:

The power cord is not in the signal path so I don’t see how it could have an effect on the timing of the signal. I could wrap my brain around it being possible with interconnects and speaker cables, but not power cords. That’s positively ludicrous in my mind.

I agree. Consider that US AC power is 50/60 Hz, how would you time a power cord that has one frequency one wavelength?

Mike

@audphile1 , thanks for sharing about your experience with older vs newer Audioquest Hurricane cords.  At least it confirms for me that the difference is due to the product change and not due to the length difference of my two cords.

The difference is extremely obvious.  

I won’t weigh in on the potential differences between a short and long power cables.

I can’t, however, resist commenting on having two different lengths of power cables causing a timing issue. That’s the type of statement that would cause me to question everything from that source. The power cord is not in the signal path so I don’t see how it could have an effect on the timing of the signal. I could wrap my brain around it being possible with interconnects and speaker cables, but not power cords. That’s positively ludicrous in my mind.

@nyev I can confirm I experienced the exact same thing with the AQ Hurricane. The latest unbraided HC Storm series sounds better than the old braided NRG series HC cord. The new cable sounds more balanced, less bloated and clearer. 

Pierre at Mapleshade maintained that 8 feet was ideal for speaker cable...not more, not less

@sokogear 

+1 My experience is in agreement with you. 

I have always heard that all cords, especially interconnects and speaker cables should be as short as possible with the exception of power cords that benefit from being longer. I wouldn't go crazy beyond a few meters though.

An old friend of mine-a very talented audio engineer-a guy who has been designing and building A-List tube and ss gear since the 1980’s-told me that without question, the most important specs for any power cord is that it be minimum 14AWG, and long enough to reach an AC outlet.

Seriously.

OCD

Not power cord related, although it involves timing- why are the windings in inductors and voice coils never mentioned as causing timing errors then? There are relatively vast differences in wire lengths between even a common 4.7mH inductor, a woofer's voice coil and the few wraps in a tweeter voice coil in a two way speaker. I've never met a vendor mentioning the timing variances about this, although again relative to the speed of light or electricity it also wouldn't be much.

@jeffstrick   You ask how power cords can have sound.  They cannot.  Unless someone here comes along and tells me how it all works.

@ghdprentice     I can only think they had a bad day at the factory when they made one of the cords.

@clearthinker 

Let me make this crystal clear… I have two Audio Quest Hurricanes power cords of the same generation, one is one meter in length and the other one two meter in length and the two meter one sounds better… quieter, greater depth and dynamics to the sound. Makes my system sound better. 

@rsf507 LOL +100!

sales distribution agree, longer/fancier/$$ better! 

@clearthinker no it is interesting, who are you to say that it is not. I find both sides of this coin interesting. This is a discussion forum is it not? To discuss ideas, theory and experiences. I find it all fascinating. 

@jeffstrick    Thank you.  Your first post is incorrect.  Your second post is entirely correct.  Power cables cannot have sound.  And in particular, changing the lengths cannot change the sound.  Even if you install 2 miles of power cable of suitable current carrying capacity.

How do power cables have sound? 

On a most practical side, 8', or ~2.5m is one of the most standard power cable length, so it is simply easier for a manufacturer to harmonize on the standard length than to have a large inventory of different lengths that won't make any difference in performance (unless you are designing a front end circuit for a very particular type of wireless communication - then an extra inch makes a difference).  Take it from a manufacturer who supplies power cables with our products (filters).

Interesting discussion. 

I made all of my power cords to length with Furutech components. The cords to my mono blocks are different lengths and I cannot tell any difference. I was trying to cut down on cord clutter behind my racks

^this makes sense^

OK, "Just for clarification."

Most here seem to believe that keeping the (Speaker cabling), the same length makes sense. "Time alignment".

Me too.
​​​​​….

Most us?

The reason to keep the speaker cords the same length has nothing to do with “Time Alignment”, and if it did there would be many HT systems that would suffer.

The reason to keep them the same length is because the current on the speaker side is higher, and any capacitance or inductance makes the cable a filter, and we do not want a different filter on the left than the right.

At least I think that would be “most of us”.

All my pc’s are 1 1/2 meters. Oh well!

Wife says longer is better!

OK, "Just for clarification."

Most here seem to believe that keeping the (Speaker cabling), the same length makes sense. "Time alignment".

Me too. 
But that keeping the power cabling to (Mono-Block), amplifiers the same length is a 'a wee but nuts.

So, you believe the charge in the speaker cabling (signal).

And it is somehow moving at a rate that you "can" hear. But the charge which first amplifies that exact same, (signal), and then sends that (Packet), of charge, on it's merry way, "Via- your speaker cabling" to your musical transduction system, (speakers), does not matter?

"Wha?!?"

If one set of cabling which allows your signal to get from one place to another at the same time matters, (Coherence). The they (ALL) matter. 

Period.

"Unless you have a rig that cannot resolve to the point where this would ever matter.

But that is another discussion entirely..."

But do realize that all of the power, "As it regards to your home power system".

 Each and every circuit, is always classified by its particular "Phasing".

And before anyone shouts, "Snake oil".

There is a piece of equipment called a "Phase Rotation meter" where even "You" can see in real-time, that it is not snake - oil.  

 That this is a real thing. with a speed that a piece of equipment costing only a few hundred bucks. Can read and then express to you, - The rotational value of any and all circuitry in your homes electrical system. And also, the (Order of Rotation).

And regardless of the nomenclature used, - (Phase/ing, Time- Alignment, Coherence, Stereo Imaging and on and on,,,etc.). These are all adjectives expressing the 'Exact", same variable and it's value, (Time).

Because most of this particular hobby. Is about time!

Am I getting any traction here?

I have one of the older style, braided Audioquest Hurricane Constant Current (source) cables that is 2m, and the rest are the new non-braided 3m Hurricanes.

I don’t know if it’s the length, or the fact that the Audioquest’s design changed (no longer braided). But, the new 3m power cords do sound clearer with more dimensionality. The old 2m cable was flatter sounding, but also more immediate. When I did the test, I was actually expecting the opposite. It pains me slightly not knowing if the differences I’m hearing are due to length or the fact that Audioquest adjusted their design.

I only started considering cable length when I, totally by accident when I wasn’t considering cable lengths, discovered that a 2m Nordost Valhalla 2 USB cable sounded far superior to the equivalent 1m USB cord. Another case where I would have been expecting the opposite if I was actually testing for it. That’s how big the difference was: I wasn’t even testing for the lengths or comparing between cables. I have a USB reclocker so need two USB cables and I was trying my system without the reclocker. I noted my system sounded worse than normal even without the reclocker, so I tried replacing the 1m cable with the 2m, and was quite stunned by the difference. I also tested the Audioquest Diamond .75m cable which sounded closed in compared to the 1.5m version.

A few audiophile contacts I have that are technically inclined and have nothing to gain by propagating myths tell me that for USB, 1.5-2m is best because of “reflections”. Something about the signal handshaking and having to “reflect” back I think. I don’t know if this applies to all digital cables or just USB. For what it’s worth, Nordost recommends 1.5m for “digital cables”.

After my experience, I begrudgingly accept the manufacturer recommendations on 2m for power cords (even though I’ve not proven length to be the reason for the difference I heard) and that digital cables should be 2m, and that analog interconnects should be shorter.

I made all of my power cords to length with Furutech components. The cords to my mono blocks are different lengths and I cannot tell any difference. I was trying to cut down on cord clutter behind my racks. 

"The two meter definitely sounds better. While they are clearly the same power cord the 2 meter is a bit quieter. Definitely worth the money."

"I do find a difference in the sound between different lengths of powercords and the sorter ones I don’t care for as much..."

Let’s try to assume for a moment that the above observations ARE correct. Perhaps we give those who claim to actually hear something the benefit of the doubt and there ARE differences in the sonics of 1M and 2M cables. If an "error" exists, perhaps it is in our attempts to assign cause and effect with our limited knowledge base, thus disqualifying those conclusions in the minds of many? Or, to take it a another direction, maybe those explainations are correct but are simply ahead of the curve and could be months (or years) ahead of our current understanding of what makes things sound how they sound? Years ago, one reviewer, who’s name escapes me, was an engineer very comfortable with the fact that he could not explain in engineering terms the differences he was hearing in equipment.  Maybe there are still lessons to be learned?

I like the poster’s plan to get his hifi buddies over for listening tests this weekend. I, for one, am very interested in the results.

As expected, we got the usual comments from those who think premium power cords are the industry equivilant of Ford Pinto exploding gas tanks.

Perhaps a little intellectual humility would prove to be beneficial, and we toss "what we know" out the window, and just listen?

@wrighton  I do find a difference  in the sound between  different  lengths of powercords and the sorter ones I don't care for as much but a good short cord is better than a cheap computer  cord. Remember  it is your system  and what you like not what I would choose  nor any other poster. They best advice  I could give you is try it yourself then you know for yourself and your tastes. There are many poster that as soon as something costs money it is all false could never be anything correct about this or that product  because  it is not free. Keep that in mind when reading  on here. What's best forum seems to have a group with passion  for the hobby and not as many pretenders.  

Threads like this remind me once again that snake oil sells well among we music lovers. Buyer beware.

The problem is Mcintosh monoblocks are not very resolving so your dealer is using bright power cables on them. 2m easier to resell. Get some better amps from Audionet before power cables. Also the fact your dealer would sell you that low of a gauge thickness level power cord on monoblocks tells you that that is not a very caring dealer having a fiduciary duty to protect your sound system because that’s the worst cable for monoblocks and really used more on preamps or dacs.

LOL

"Time alignment" for a power cord! So tell me how the genius's at Nordost determine this hitherto unknown factor?

@kingsleuy 

Now you've gone and done it, you've created a new standard....The TADC - Time Aligned Direct Current......coming soon to an audio manufacturer near you......

I think that's what the Doc used in Back to the Future to power his DeLorean....

Isn't the AC power going to be converted to DC in the amplifiers?

Oooh... I get it now.  Timed Aligned Direct Current.  Ah, now it all makes sense.

Time aligned power? Filtering per unit of conductor length?

What physics text books are on that dealer's shelf?

2m works better for their bottom line and nothing more.

The 2 meter lenght is required so you can also tune the tonal balance of your speaker output by folding the AC power on itself according to some mystical patterns.

Most of mine are 5 footers for connectivity purpose to anywhere from my furniture to the AC outlets.

@clearthinker 

You do believe tonal quality can be addressed simply by manipulating the AC wires coming from the final wall socket going into your equipment ? And of course same with the noise dragged from never never land. Lol 

my question is why does Nordost offer standard lengths of 1, 1.5, 2 and 3m if less than 2 is 'out of spec'?

I just got a Zavfino FINA 1m PC for my DAC - it was a custom order, same price as 2m - happy camper here.

Bigger gauge for longer runs is about the only thing that makes sense to me. I can see about keeping speaker wires the same length but power cords!?! As to the 2m length being better than 1m I am at a total loss for words.

Hello Wrighton!  Don't let anybody fool you. It's your home and your property. Measure carefully add an inch or two for safety (just in case you OOOPS), get out your screw drivers and wire cutters and shorten it so it fits better for you. Observe how they prepared the wires for connection to the plug and do it the same way. If one end looks easier to change, change that end. Don't Wory, Be Happy.

@clearthinker you need help. No really. Happy Valentines Day. 😘

"The two meter definitely sounds better. While they are clearly the same power cord the 2 meter is a bit quieter. Definitely worth the money."

@ghdprentice  I can't believe you are saying this.  Gotta be a piss (miss)take.  Like, I have tested all lengths from 1.75001m to 1.9999m.  And I really love the 1.7836m cord.  Way better than 0.002m longer or shorter.  Make sure you get it right, down to the fifth decimal point.

OMIGOD.  Another power cord fetish.  Please help us.

Don't forget.  Before the power arrives in your outlet it has come 10 miles or more from the power station.  On all sorts of rubbish wire corroded like hell after 40 years in the ground, but big gauge for sure.

Just connect your stuff with a cord that can handle the amps being drawn.  To save your pocket book just make it regular 12 gauge cord.

END OF STORY.

All of my PC are 2 meters and I need every centimeter. 

My two monoblock amps, have 12’’ power cords. The shorter the better, different lengths do not matter. In my opinion power cords and speakers cables should always be kept as short as possible, that’s one of the many reasons for monoblock amps. Time alignment with power cords is silly. 😁

Dealer stated "2m works the best for it to really filter".

It’s the opposite, the shorter the cable the less chance of it picking up noise.

Mike

No worries. I have a 27 foot cable from the rack to the amp out in front. Electrons are quick!! ha

got curious and checked some AQ and Cardas prices...seems the second meter is way less expensive than the first...and 2M so much more convenient...and the price difference often quite small if you shop used…