I reference the brand of their gear and say "they make some really good stuff."
I also say that "we're a dying breed...most people don't have any pride in their gear if they have any gear at all...glad to see you are enjoying it."
That said, I have a relationship with a close friend where we are more direct and honest. He told me my Focal BE tweeters were too bright once and I could never enjoy those speakers again. He insisted I fly down for his birthday and I said I wouldn't unless he ordered a separate DAC and preamp to assume 2-channel duties from his AVR and we'd install while I was there. Before we installed the gear he wanted me to compliment his speakers. I said they had potential and just wait an hour. We got the new (used Parasound) amp and DAC/preamp installed and his jaw hit the floor. But this was a long debate we'd had for years so it wasn't like he wasn't ready for the stipulation.
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@testpilot ,
If you have ugly friends you can compliment them by telling them they have a face for radio...
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I mounted two 75" TVs for a friend this week. His "stereo" was a $260 sound bar / sub. It sounded horrible.... what do you say to a friend? Nothing. "Way better than TV speakers" is what I said. For them it was great. Such a small percentage of people place a high priority on SQ like members here do.
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I work out every day and eat really healthy and for some reason when I tell my friends that they look fat, ugly and out of shape….and that I can help them, it’s not taken well. What’s wrong with them?
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Given the money pit that this hobby can quickly become my advice would be not to say anything about the system. If your friend is happy with its sound that's all that counts.
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Yeah, it's a hypothetical here guys, thought that to be obvious.
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Kinda feels like a forced premise here, and in the subject title you refer to the individual as a "friend" whereas later it appears you’re not really acquainted with him.
Hasn't the OP already pretty much stated that this is another one of his imaginary scenarios that he likes to post, for some reason, in the amps/preamps forum?
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A good friend of mine knew I was into audio and he asked my about his system. He was using Bose 301 loudspeakers and I told him he could do better. Now he loves music as much as I do and he's also a good guitar player. In his opinion the Bose loudspeakers could rock and he was happy.
I few months later I'm at an estate sale and there's a mint pair of Dynaco A25s for $40. A few months after that I get good condition Pioneer SX434 for $20. I give them to my friend. He loves them, but he still kept the Bose. He's not an audiophile. He doesn't have a sweet spot and he doesn't worry about soundstage or imaging. With his modest system he enjoys listening to music as much as anyone on this forum.
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I liked @norcalal response (there were many others as well), but his I thought was really functional and effective, and also a leading call to action for the friend. I have been having a similar struggle with a relative who has a VERY NICE system, and a great sized room....but the sound is just barely mid-range and higher: there is no depth, no feeling, NO BASS AT ALL. To me it sounded so bad that I literally couldn't listen for more than a few songs at a time. To him, it was incredible and the best he has ever heard, and he's been an audiophile (legit) for over 30 years.
Age has a lot to do with it, sensitivities can have a lot to do with it for him, and frankly I think at some point people just like what they want to like and can't be turned unless led by themselves. Which brings me back to @norcalal comment. Encouraging the person to WANT to experiment will help them to simply discover on their own that things can in fact sound better even with just speaker placement moves maybe some furnishings, sitting position, etc. That can 'usually' trigger wanting to test and tweak and hopefully LEARN all one can objectively to then apply subjectively. In my situation with the family member, I had to show him REW measurements to illustrate what he was missing, what issues he had: objective. For me, personally in my own system I try a lot of different things from time to time just to shift HOW what I hear sounds. I'll turn off my subwoofer for a few days, change it's frequency cut off and volume, I'll do some tweaking with an EQ for the main system and change response curves, use REW to record measurement of what I change and mark ones I really like and why, etc. I also listen to a lot of live acoustic music of all kinds, in different spaces small and large. I am also blessed with muscian and other audiophile friends who help me to want to hear differently or help point out things I should be hearing that are present but I might over look.
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Be humble. Be a good friend without being judgemental. To your friends ears, he may like his system, and does not require esoteric electronics to make him happy. My suggestion, enjoy your time with him and the music he likes. You might find some new ones you want to listen to again on your system .
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@jsalerno277 (above, page 1) You offered several tactics I can use with my students with whom I struggle to communicate. Very helpful.
@emergingsoul The only advice I can offer is that people are more important than gear. Treat your friend as you would like to be treated yourself. Golden Rule and all that.
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I take a seat in their sweet spot and close my eyes for a few moments and then say, “I hope you’re getting a tremendous amount of pleasure out of this.“
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Life long lesson: Only give advise and/or make suggestions if you are asked to contribute.
@lak
On the money.
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@emergingsoul wrote:
So you’re going over to someones home and they give you a tour and they have a hi-fi system in a room. And while visiting of course they turn it on for you not knowing that you have a very nice system in your home and you notice immediately it’s just not very good. But then you’re used to the very in you’re listening experiences. So what do you do when they ask you what you think?
Do you say sounds really good?
Do you make suggestions?
Do you feel a desperate need to tell them about your system?
Kinda feels like a forced premise here, and in the subject title you refer to the individual as a "friend" whereas later it appears you’re not really acquainted with him.
In any case, from my chair, going to someone else’s place and listening to their setup comes with the necessity of knowing about who they are in addition to their aspirations, and then adjusting your feedback accordingly. Maybe the one you’re visiting is perfectly happy with the sound as is (even though you may disagree) without being overly ambitious with the outcome, and that being the case he’s likely not in a place to receive critique, nor should he to my mind. On the other hand he may be dissatisfied with the sound himself (maybe because of practical circumstances, not enough time/energy, family considerations, etc.), and then revealing your own interest in the field you may sense an invitation to help him out in his audio endeavor, in which case I’d likely oblige. If I knew the fella very well and had heard his setup at numerous occasions and then felt something was amiss with the sound coming from his system, I’d definitely let him know honestly while also being surprised perhaps if he felt differently about it. If some audiophile I don’t know wants me to be ruthlessly honest about the sound from his setup, I’ll be just that.
Still, it’s important to me to respect whatever audio endeavor this or that individual is pursuing, and then meet them on their own field, so to speak. My interest initially would be knowing about his preferences and ideas, and then over time may share my own if it feels prudent. Listening to other audio setups can be inspirational, and after a bit of getting used to a different sound compared to the one you’re treated to at home, great music experiences can emerge here and there as well.
Tidbit: my approach may be different than many around here, but that’s not to say I can’t appreciate the sonic paths of others. I don’t necessarily like the sound of horns if their "horny" imprinting is all over the place or coherency is left by the wayside, but I like what they can channel and communicate if properly designed, sized and implemented. Whatever works..
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The OP can answer this question him (or her) self.
Reverse the situation.
You invite a buddy to listen to your great, great system, one that you've spent years tweaking. Your friend has her own spectacular system, which cost her about the same, but she quickly realizes that it sounds a heckuva lot better than yours.
What would be appropriate for her to say, if anything?
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If it sounds great to him then that’s all that matters no? If he specifically asks for your assessment then it’s fair game. If your tight with him then tell him it sounds like shyte….I go at it all the time with my HiFi buddy who has unlimited funds and just can’t get it right. 😂🤷♂️
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Generally, sound is subjective. If you know that, the answer to your question is pretty simple.
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I never debut my system for others because I really don't want or need their input. I built it for me, to sound the way I wanted it to sound, and I'm perfectly happy with the result.
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And maybe you're extremely lucky to become friends with a supermodel who invites you back to her place and when you walk in you see the most amazing hi-fi system. And of course you being a knowledgeable person about all hi-fi components, this is a really interesting Challenge to deal with.
you have already succeeded with a lifetime achievement and basically are assured that your night will only get better, and I mean a lot better.
But you're tempted to start talking about this beautiful girls audio system and maybe she knows absolutely nothing about audio systems. So what do you do? Maybe she knows a hell of a lot more than you do. Horrible situation? How incredibly stupid it would be to start talking about acoustical panels or amplifier power or what cables are being used. Of course if you ignore the system she may have concerns that you're not as sophisticated as she thought and would actually expect you to make some comments. So much to admire and you're being distracted by a really nice hi-fi system.
I'm sure many have had that happen to them and I'm curious to know what they have done.
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Suggest that as a friend that is being hosted as a guest that you keep any references to their audio system positive. Maybe a dialogue opener like, "Hey, I'm into audio also, let's get together at our place so you can check out our rig." If they ask you what you think of their rig/sound just keep it positive. Sometimes little "white lies" are ok to save feelings/friendships. When you host them at your home you can share your rig and ask their opinions. At that point your friends and you may start a dialogue about your rig/SQ. It's a process that you should allow to develop. Hope this is helpful/
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@bslon
You have a really interesting system. Very impressive Album collection. I'm guessing Derek and the dominoes is in there somewhere but may be hard to find.
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@samureyex,
Do you always lay people know what you have? Do you expect friend's to tell you everything?
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Say it’s a good start. You are on your way.
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@hilroy48 you are 100% correct. I'll second that. Your self-diagnosis is spot on.
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I bought a used Dartzeel last year and two friend's listened while I was not around. They both said it was the greatest amp they'd heard but they could sense some buzzing and lower output on one channel.
At a cost of $3k+ round-trip, the amp was repaired(parts)for free and only charged for labor. Not bad for a mint condition product that was 20 years old. If my friend's hadn't said anything,....
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The guy is proud enough of his system to play it for you. I’d be complimentary, why ruin the moment? Then see where it goes.
Thanks @emergingsoul, some fun reading here.
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Interesting quote from Mark Twain! Makes you think!
I've been in this situation many times over the years. I will find something about their system and its sound quality that you can honestly say is good. It could be that the overall sound quality is terrible, but it probably does something (perhaps only one thing) ok. That way you are speaking honestly while at the same time appealing to their sense of joy and pride. In the end, the delivery of music brings joy.
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I am not at my friend's house to review his stereo system. If it works for him that is all that matters.
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Say nothing. This is not a contest akin to “my bike is better than your bike.” We’re grown ups now. Be happy with your bike. That’s all that matters.
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I would say I really like your system and that I have been really stupid to spend so much money on my system and here you have a really nice system. I just wanna listen to music and enjoy that after all. I wish I was smart as you.
And then they ask you what you have in your system, and of course that’s really what I wanted to express anyway but I did it in a cute sort of way. And then he’ll be complementing me on my system saying I bet it really does sound pretty good you shouldn’t be critical of yourself. Can I come listen to it?
Then I would say if I had to do it all over again I would just buy an integrated receiver with basic speakers and call it a day and be just as happy. Now I drive myself nuts trying to learn more and more and recognizing I really haven’t learned much at all. Truly frustrating experience to pursue this and never get to a point where you’re satisfied with anything. and Looking at my car and saying wow I could’ve done a lot better.
And then the guy is basically providing me comfort for my awesome system and he hasn’t taken offense while we mutually have a common understanding at this point that his system probably isn’t as good as my system. And now he’s envious of me and that’s just fine.
Yeah, I suppose this makes sense if his envy is your goal.
Really though, this seems like grade school playground logic.
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I'd do the same thing when someone brings a bottle of agonizingly bad wine over. I'd open a better bottle and let him see the difference. If he couldn't tell the difference, c'est la vie - end of discussion.
In the case of the audio end of things, I'd invite him to bring over the same record/CD he played and play it on each one of my three systems (which have slightly different strengths and weaknesses) and see what he hears.
He might turn out to be unable to detect differences (in which case, end of discussion), or they might jump out at him immediately and could start a discussion of why it was different. Either way, I'd avoid offending him. Telling someone that their system sucks is like saying his wife is ugly - no coming back from that!
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This is an easy one. “sounds nice.” If your friend likes it, that’s all that is required. If he asks for suggestions on how to improve it in some way, I would make suggestions consistent with his budget. I would not suggest a Shunyata Everest ($8K+) for a $5K system, for example. I don’t think that most people really want to hear how others think their system sounds unless they know it is nice. For example, with my system, which is “high end” but certainly not in the stratosphere, I don’t ask friends. I just put them in my perfect listening chair and put on music. 100% of the time, they have been blown away (but none of my buddies are audiophiles either).
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I appreciate and am interested in what somebody has created with their rig and discography. I'm definitely up for a listening session. It's always nice to hear another rig no matter the value of it or experience of its owner.
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I tend to take the attitude that if they own it and seem to like it, my opinion is irrelevant. I have a friend who is fond of saying "good enough for who it's for" and we all draw the line in the sand that separates acceptable and non-acceptable in a different place. It seems most audiophiles are on the side of its never good enough...and I find it very hard to constantly be dissatisfied.
If asked questions about setup or what I think in general I will respond with polite answers until I am sure they can handle and really want the truth. Then I will offer my opinion. "more power for these speakers wouldnt hurt" "a bit closer to the wall might help solidify bass response" Moving your listening position out of the bass null in the room will help make for a better listening experience and so on. Not openly critical but suggesting tweaks to make whats there work better. If they are good friends and you know they are open to this by working with them to improve it, you get the satisfaction of helping another person you like along their audio journey. And like the Grateful Dead said, "what a long strange trip its been"
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Irjones many times that’s what happen. Your friend is not that interested to learn on audio. At times , their stereo are just there for display.iig happens to me. My friend invited me when Iam new with this hobby. Because i don’t understand the amazing and glorious musicality of his system. I end up also asking Him about their Persian rugs. Five years later I beg him to invite me because this time , Iam more interested and did appreciate his system.
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Get up and go in another room. Lol just like a hifi store walk out. Lol
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"I invited him and his dog, to my home to cook him a meal in return."
You invited him and his dog, but not his wife?! Interesting dynamic.
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I haven't heard anybody else's system for years so I have no idea what anybody elses system sounds like. I just have my imagination to work with.
So this was all just a theoretical question?
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I onced had a former work-mate. I helped him out on a job he simply could not complete. So he asked me to dinner at his home, with his wife. My eyes naturally turned to the T.V. where I discovered his "stereo" was located beneath it. It was an all in one system, an AMSTRAD with the speakers bunched tightly together. Just like as illustrated in the catalogue. I asked him how he played L.P.s as there was no room for the lid to open. He immediately got down on his knees to show me his "stereo". and enthusiastically poked buttons and got the VU meters to work. But did not play any music.
I invited him and his dog, to my home to cook him a meal in return. It was a trap. Before he started to tell me the plot of a drama he watched on T.V. (this is his idea of conversation). I switched my humble system on and loaded the Eagles, One Of These Nights, into the disc tray, tilted the balance to 11 o'clock to put him in the sweet spot. He exclaimed that he thought seperates were not made anymore.
His dog dashed back and fore, ears pricked to see where the sound was coming from. He just sat there silently for 2 minutes, then started to tell me all about a TV drama he had watched.
Eagles speak louder than words. Yes, I became an audio snob that day. There is no reason to comment on the sounds, Just sit back and let the music play.
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I would probably say, I'm trying to find a diffuser panel aesthetically pleasing and nice looking and doesn't look like everybody else's since they're all buying it from the same place. Something custom would be cool if I could find something I like to look at. And then the problem is it has to be larger and take up a fair amount of Wall space to achieve any effective results further complicating finding something that looks good. Of course if you have a lot of furniture in the room probably achieves the same damn thing.
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I probe with questions: "Are you happy with the bass level you have? " Depending on the answer, you can either offer advice or just STFU.
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If they ask for honest critique I would give it to them.
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What do you do when you visit a friend? Tell them that their home is lovely or the food is delicious? Or do you tell them that you have better leftovers in your fridge or your mansion is better than their home? This is a question of basic decency.
It is the same thing with audio systems.
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@pkatsuleas
I haven't heard anybody else's system for years so I have no idea what anybody elses system sounds like. I just have my imagination to work with.
I'd like to think I have the best system in the world. But then I would be the most naïve person in the world.
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Why do I get the feeling that the OP would think everybody’s system sounds bad except theirs?
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Another voice in cyberspace that says be nice. Maybe talk about toe in if pressed. KISS. If sincerely asked what they might do, that’s a different story. If they get the bug the rest might follow.
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You started this conversation with an idea that you know what a good system sounds like, and he does not. No offense but, what are the chances you are wrong?
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