Personally, I’d appreciate an honest evaluation of my perhaps quixotic quest in the redux of my diy Walsh by one or more ’experienced ears’ sans pressure and expectations. So far, I’ve had positive responses, but one can still have a reluctance to accept such from ’non-philes’ of unknown experiences....
Nice, normal, ’noia.....*L*
Lacking locals of acquaintance with ’non-adulterated’ listening skills, it’s difficult to properly rate my attempts to do the improbable with the unlikely.... ;)
It’s frustrating, but I trundle on...even if only to amuse self and perhaps y’all can wonder WTH I’m really accomplishing....esp. with non-sota stuff.....
" ’Tis what it is..." How well ’is’ Is?
Some feedback would be nice....
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you notice immediately it's just not very good.
Let's turn it around and ask ourselves how would we react if someone said that to us about our system?
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Are you freaking kidding me, if anybody comes in and listens to my system and says anything critical I would be very very unhappy with them. my feeling would be that they have no idea what they're talking about.
You remain freaking silent about critiquing a system. Just say how you really enjoy the tune.
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@quickjack1234
So this answers my question about whether I should spend money on audio equipment or a really nice car.
Of course what comes with buying a really nice car is a very expensive Insurance plan every year versus audio equipment which is covered by my homeowners policy, ie. Not much to insure. My guess is that repair bills to maintain an older Ferrari are a lot more than maintaining audio audio system.
Clearly you said FU to all the above. And now you're enjoying your life when you're away from your home driving a really nice car. And when you're with your friends there's no way on this planet they would say anything negative about your car, except for the crappy audio system installed in the car which is very odd they’d do that. I would be listening to the car and probably not turn on the audio system when I'm driving it. But then maybe your friends always wanna drive your car and then what do you do. I wouldn't want anybody driving my Ferrari, not even my twin brother if I had a twin.
Just for your information, I don't own a car right now and should I ever be in a position to buy one again I will be buying an Audi.
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Depends. Are they wealthy, poor, in the middle? Do they care about their system?
I am a cheap person with $1000 amplification and $700 preamp/dac.
When I sold my late mother's house I dropped $15K on speakers. Same gear.
Audio holds different places in peoples' minds. Life is expensive.
Stay positive unless you know them well.
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Nothing wrong with a relative statement. If the gear sounds as it should relative to what it is, then it sounds good, for what it is, and there's no reason you would need to say otherwise. If you ever have this person to your house and they discover the next level of sonic excellence, their realization of better gear may prompt a more honest conversation about how your experience may help them. On the other hand, a Lambo driver you may never understand the joy of a Miata.......
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But what if it is really a high quality system with expensive components that the owner is extremely proud of, others have said they like, and you just can't stomach?
Maybe open backs just aren't my thing.
https://youtu.be/K5xmzXp1cE4
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I think you should appreciate it from their perspective. After all, they're sharing something they're proud of. You could ask, how long have you had it, how did you determine their choices, what do they like about it, what would they change if they had the opportunity or money? At that point some good talking points might come up where you could share your ideas, modestly of course. They might get inspired to come here yours, or they might ask some inside questions, or they may clam up, at which time you know to just sit back and enjoy your visit with your friend.
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So what do you do when they ask you what you think?
I’d look them in the eye and say,
”I’m sorry, I couldn’t hear you with the static coming from…are those speakers?”
or
”I enjoy it very much, just like my car system. Did you get this from yours?”
or
”I thought you were driving out rodents - sonically”
…..if I was an audiophile snob ;)
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The irony is your friend would likely not like your system as well. It might sound too dead to him or too lively. ;-)
But telling him you don't care for his system would be a demonstration of poor social skills and would reflect badly on you. You probably know that though. ;-)
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I’d tell them that’s ‘ Ugly Junk ’ you should see what I have !! Lol….
Cheers
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Context is important. The OP stated that the owner was giving him a tour of their house which implies that this is either a new or casual friend. He didn’t invite them over for a “listening session” of a shared hobby.
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I never offer an opinion unless asked.
If asked, and I find whatever it is that they are asking about to be wanting, I start a conversation by asking them about how they went about their choices and decision making. That leads into “what about this, why didn’t you do that”, etc.
Leading them through their own thought process opens up their curiosity into considering alternative paths, and sidesteps judgement.
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@thecarpathian wrote:
Yeah, it’s a hypothetical here guys, thought that to be obvious.
Hypotheticals are OK. If the subject matter is deemed of relevance in broader terms, it doesn’t really matter to me that there’s no specific recipient or case. As I wrote above, some people are still likely to make use of such a correspondence.
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@immatthewj wrote:
Hasn't the OP already pretty much stated that this is another one of his imaginary scenarios that he likes to post, for some reason, in the amps/preamps forum?
It appears so. Oh, well - if nothing else we're free to take from the OP as we see fit, and hopefully someone else can make use of the replies.
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Someone said, "Honesty is the best policy. There’s a lot less competition."
I’ve found that apropos, in most situtations.
Educating others, regarding good sound and how to listen and adjust for accurate/articulate reproduction, kept me in busy and prosperous in the sound industry, for decades. (appreciated by most)
But then: if someone’s happy with what their system’s sound and/or listening preferences; who am I to tell them they’re wrong? (always been my perspective)
Happy listening!
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I would turn it around on them- ask them right back and say well what do you think? They’ll most likely say yes. Then ask is that the sound your going for? ….the conversation will ensue naturally….
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@emergingsoul It depends on how well I know the friend would determine how I respond to them asking me what do I think about their system. It’s hard for some people to receive respectful feedback about their system after they actually asked for the feedback. That’s why I would have to know the personality of the friend before I offer feedback. If I was comfortable offering feedback because I know the person would not get upset, I would still share my feedback by advising that the listening experience is all subjective, so I’m just sharing the sound qualities that I look for in my system. If they want to take my advice, good, if not, no sweat. I just want to listen to music and avoid a beef over a subjective hobby.
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Have a heart and check out their albums, the sound ain't that bad.
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I reference the brand of their gear and say "they make some really good stuff."
I also say that "we're a dying breed...most people don't have any pride in their gear if they have any gear at all...glad to see you are enjoying it."
That said, I have a relationship with a close friend where we are more direct and honest. He told me my Focal BE tweeters were too bright once and I could never enjoy those speakers again. He insisted I fly down for his birthday and I said I wouldn't unless he ordered a separate DAC and preamp to assume 2-channel duties from his AVR and we'd install while I was there. Before we installed the gear he wanted me to compliment his speakers. I said they had potential and just wait an hour. We got the new (used Parasound) amp and DAC/preamp installed and his jaw hit the floor. But this was a long debate we'd had for years so it wasn't like he wasn't ready for the stipulation.
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@testpilot ,
If you have ugly friends you can compliment them by telling them they have a face for radio...
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I mounted two 75" TVs for a friend this week. His "stereo" was a $260 sound bar / sub. It sounded horrible.... what do you say to a friend? Nothing. "Way better than TV speakers" is what I said. For them it was great. Such a small percentage of people place a high priority on SQ like members here do.
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I work out every day and eat really healthy and for some reason when I tell my friends that they look fat, ugly and out of shape….and that I can help them, it’s not taken well. What’s wrong with them?
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Given the money pit that this hobby can quickly become my advice would be not to say anything about the system. If your friend is happy with its sound that's all that counts.
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Yeah, it's a hypothetical here guys, thought that to be obvious.
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Kinda feels like a forced premise here, and in the subject title you refer to the individual as a "friend" whereas later it appears you’re not really acquainted with him.
Hasn't the OP already pretty much stated that this is another one of his imaginary scenarios that he likes to post, for some reason, in the amps/preamps forum?
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A good friend of mine knew I was into audio and he asked my about his system. He was using Bose 301 loudspeakers and I told him he could do better. Now he loves music as much as I do and he's also a good guitar player. In his opinion the Bose loudspeakers could rock and he was happy.
I few months later I'm at an estate sale and there's a mint pair of Dynaco A25s for $40. A few months after that I get good condition Pioneer SX434 for $20. I give them to my friend. He loves them, but he still kept the Bose. He's not an audiophile. He doesn't have a sweet spot and he doesn't worry about soundstage or imaging. With his modest system he enjoys listening to music as much as anyone on this forum.
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I liked @norcalal response (there were many others as well), but his I thought was really functional and effective, and also a leading call to action for the friend. I have been having a similar struggle with a relative who has a VERY NICE system, and a great sized room....but the sound is just barely mid-range and higher: there is no depth, no feeling, NO BASS AT ALL. To me it sounded so bad that I literally couldn't listen for more than a few songs at a time. To him, it was incredible and the best he has ever heard, and he's been an audiophile (legit) for over 30 years.
Age has a lot to do with it, sensitivities can have a lot to do with it for him, and frankly I think at some point people just like what they want to like and can't be turned unless led by themselves. Which brings me back to @norcalal comment. Encouraging the person to WANT to experiment will help them to simply discover on their own that things can in fact sound better even with just speaker placement moves maybe some furnishings, sitting position, etc. That can 'usually' trigger wanting to test and tweak and hopefully LEARN all one can objectively to then apply subjectively. In my situation with the family member, I had to show him REW measurements to illustrate what he was missing, what issues he had: objective. For me, personally in my own system I try a lot of different things from time to time just to shift HOW what I hear sounds. I'll turn off my subwoofer for a few days, change it's frequency cut off and volume, I'll do some tweaking with an EQ for the main system and change response curves, use REW to record measurement of what I change and mark ones I really like and why, etc. I also listen to a lot of live acoustic music of all kinds, in different spaces small and large. I am also blessed with muscian and other audiophile friends who help me to want to hear differently or help point out things I should be hearing that are present but I might over look.
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Be humble. Be a good friend without being judgemental. To your friends ears, he may like his system, and does not require esoteric electronics to make him happy. My suggestion, enjoy your time with him and the music he likes. You might find some new ones you want to listen to again on your system .
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@jsalerno277 (above, page 1) You offered several tactics I can use with my students with whom I struggle to communicate. Very helpful.
@emergingsoul The only advice I can offer is that people are more important than gear. Treat your friend as you would like to be treated yourself. Golden Rule and all that.
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I take a seat in their sweet spot and close my eyes for a few moments and then say, “I hope you’re getting a tremendous amount of pleasure out of this.“
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Life long lesson: Only give advise and/or make suggestions if you are asked to contribute.
@lak
On the money.
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@emergingsoul wrote:
So you’re going over to someones home and they give you a tour and they have a hi-fi system in a room. And while visiting of course they turn it on for you not knowing that you have a very nice system in your home and you notice immediately it’s just not very good. But then you’re used to the very in you’re listening experiences. So what do you do when they ask you what you think?
Do you say sounds really good?
Do you make suggestions?
Do you feel a desperate need to tell them about your system?
Kinda feels like a forced premise here, and in the subject title you refer to the individual as a "friend" whereas later it appears you’re not really acquainted with him.
In any case, from my chair, going to someone else’s place and listening to their setup comes with the necessity of knowing about who they are in addition to their aspirations, and then adjusting your feedback accordingly. Maybe the one you’re visiting is perfectly happy with the sound as is (even though you may disagree) without being overly ambitious with the outcome, and that being the case he’s likely not in a place to receive critique, nor should he to my mind. On the other hand he may be dissatisfied with the sound himself (maybe because of practical circumstances, not enough time/energy, family considerations, etc.), and then revealing your own interest in the field you may sense an invitation to help him out in his audio endeavor, in which case I’d likely oblige. If I knew the fella very well and had heard his setup at numerous occasions and then felt something was amiss with the sound coming from his system, I’d definitely let him know honestly while also being surprised perhaps if he felt differently about it. If some audiophile I don’t know wants me to be ruthlessly honest about the sound from his setup, I’ll be just that.
Still, it’s important to me to respect whatever audio endeavor this or that individual is pursuing, and then meet them on their own field, so to speak. My interest initially would be knowing about his preferences and ideas, and then over time may share my own if it feels prudent. Listening to other audio setups can be inspirational, and after a bit of getting used to a different sound compared to the one you’re treated to at home, great music experiences can emerge here and there as well.
Tidbit: my approach may be different than many around here, but that’s not to say I can’t appreciate the sonic paths of others. I don’t necessarily like the sound of horns if their "horny" imprinting is all over the place or coherency is left by the wayside, but I like what they can channel and communicate if properly designed, sized and implemented. Whatever works..
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The OP can answer this question him (or her) self.
Reverse the situation.
You invite a buddy to listen to your great, great system, one that you've spent years tweaking. Your friend has her own spectacular system, which cost her about the same, but she quickly realizes that it sounds a heckuva lot better than yours.
What would be appropriate for her to say, if anything?
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If it sounds great to him then that’s all that matters no? If he specifically asks for your assessment then it’s fair game. If your tight with him then tell him it sounds like shyte….I go at it all the time with my HiFi buddy who has unlimited funds and just can’t get it right. 😂🤷♂️
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Generally, sound is subjective. If you know that, the answer to your question is pretty simple.
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I never debut my system for others because I really don't want or need their input. I built it for me, to sound the way I wanted it to sound, and I'm perfectly happy with the result.
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And maybe you're extremely lucky to become friends with a supermodel who invites you back to her place and when you walk in you see the most amazing hi-fi system. And of course you being a knowledgeable person about all hi-fi components, this is a really interesting Challenge to deal with.
you have already succeeded with a lifetime achievement and basically are assured that your night will only get better, and I mean a lot better.
But you're tempted to start talking about this beautiful girls audio system and maybe she knows absolutely nothing about audio systems. So what do you do? Maybe she knows a hell of a lot more than you do. Horrible situation? How incredibly stupid it would be to start talking about acoustical panels or amplifier power or what cables are being used. Of course if you ignore the system she may have concerns that you're not as sophisticated as she thought and would actually expect you to make some comments. So much to admire and you're being distracted by a really nice hi-fi system.
I'm sure many have had that happen to them and I'm curious to know what they have done.
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Suggest that as a friend that is being hosted as a guest that you keep any references to their audio system positive. Maybe a dialogue opener like, "Hey, I'm into audio also, let's get together at our place so you can check out our rig." If they ask you what you think of their rig/sound just keep it positive. Sometimes little "white lies" are ok to save feelings/friendships. When you host them at your home you can share your rig and ask their opinions. At that point your friends and you may start a dialogue about your rig/SQ. It's a process that you should allow to develop. Hope this is helpful/
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@bslon
You have a really interesting system. Very impressive Album collection. I'm guessing Derek and the dominoes is in there somewhere but may be hard to find.
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@samureyex,
Do you always lay people know what you have? Do you expect friend's to tell you everything?
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Say it’s a good start. You are on your way.
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@hilroy48 you are 100% correct. I'll second that. Your self-diagnosis is spot on.
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I bought a used Dartzeel last year and two friend's listened while I was not around. They both said it was the greatest amp they'd heard but they could sense some buzzing and lower output on one channel.
At a cost of $3k+ round-trip, the amp was repaired(parts)for free and only charged for labor. Not bad for a mint condition product that was 20 years old. If my friend's hadn't said anything,....
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The guy is proud enough of his system to play it for you. I’d be complimentary, why ruin the moment? Then see where it goes.
Thanks @emergingsoul, some fun reading here.
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Interesting quote from Mark Twain! Makes you think!
I've been in this situation many times over the years. I will find something about their system and its sound quality that you can honestly say is good. It could be that the overall sound quality is terrible, but it probably does something (perhaps only one thing) ok. That way you are speaking honestly while at the same time appealing to their sense of joy and pride. In the end, the delivery of music brings joy.
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I am not at my friend's house to review his stereo system. If it works for him that is all that matters.
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Say nothing. This is not a contest akin to “my bike is better than your bike.” We’re grown ups now. Be happy with your bike. That’s all that matters.
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