DIY Speaker Kits, a good idea?

Only two kinds of people in this world;  risk adverse, those consumed with fear of making a mistake and risk takers, those afraid not to explore, accepting failure as a valuable learning experience, but understanding possible rewards of discovery.

Pick a direction, accept the outcome.  You are not picking out a life partner.

Be well.

My opinion is if you have the technical chops, not forum expert Dunning-Krueger, making your own speaker is the best thing to do. Cos the performance to be had by DIY is unmatched.

Perhaps this should be the official T-shirt of the forum

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Smile, it’s all in fun.

Usually it's the box that is hard to make. A strong, non resonating speaker cabinet takes a lot of bracing and wood working skills. Perhaps consider an open baffle type.

Like anything, there are pros and cons.  You can definitely get better quality parts for the money with a kit, and the designs themselves are excellent.  You completely skip the retail markup, which is a big chunk of the total money you spend on brand name speakers through a dealer. There’s also a huge opportunity to learn the skills involved with building a speaker, plus you can customize them.  Many of the kits are available with flat pack enclosures that you just have to assemble.

The downsides are that kits are more difficult to hear in person, and resale is likely more difficult with a kit.

Only two kinds of people in this world, those who assert that choices are binary, and those who assert they're non-binary.

"However, the typical audiophile mantra is to demo for yourself to find what subjectively “resonates” with you.  Can’t do this with a kit."

Not true in all cases.  The GR Research forum on audiocircle has a sticky up on top where people offer auditions of the speakers they've built. There's lots of people willing to help, if you're interested enough to pursue an audition.

I haven't chased it down, but I'd be surprised if CSS didn't offer some way of hearing their speakers before ordering.  

"Usually it's the box that is hard to make. A strong, non resonating speaker cabinet takes a lot of bracing and wood working skills."

..well, we definitely don't want to try anything outside our little bubbles.  CNC-cut flat packs are offered from the two kit vendors mentioned above. It only takes modest skills, and a minor amount of common tools, to assemble them.  People (that have never done it before) do it all time. You just have to want to do it.  There are a ton of build threads on the GR Research forum.  CSS builds are discussed on other forums(parts express, what's the best..). 

Resale..yep, there is a market(usually within audio forums as they are familiar with the models and vendor), but it'll be harder than selling a name-brand speaker.  But, say you buy a name-brand speaker for..$10K.  That speaker has..I don't know..$2500 worth of parts in it??  Then one day you need to move on from that $10K speaker and sell them for...$6K?  Well, that $4K hit you just took more than covers the cost of a very good kit.  So, the moral of the story is we all need to pay to play. You can buy a speaker kit for $2-$3K (that'll sound like a $7-$10K set of speakers) and sell it eventually, after enjoying them for years, for.. $1500? Seems like a similar story compared to the buying and selling of a name-brand speaker. 

Disclosure..I'm currently building an older model (offered & popular 12+ years ago) GR Research speaker (Super V) from scratch, no flat pack.  I'm a somewhat seasoned woodworker.  I've seen a number of sets of these built up Super V kits sell over the years for around $2K+.  The parts for this speaker kit didn't cost much more than that. 

All of the info I've offered here is on the web if you do some searching. 

Just remember, build them for your enjoyment (of the build and the music).  Don't expect a high resale value.  Same with custom cars and bikes.

I say, go for it (I have done it also!)

@nogaps 

say you buy a name-brand speaker for..$10K.  That speaker has..I don't know..$2500 worth of parts in it??  Then one day you need to move on from that $10K speaker and sell them for...$6K?  Well, that $4K hit you just took more than covers the cost of a very good kit.  So, the moral of the story is we all need to pay to play. You can buy a speaker kit for $2-$3K (that'll sound like a $7-$10K set of speakers) and sell it eventually, after enjoying them for years, for.. $1500? Seems like a similar story compared to the buying and selling of a name-brand speaker. 

This is an excellent point, and the number estimates are feasible.  Very few of us profit when reselling our audio gear, but it's certainly possible to cut our losses when we buy right.

Troels Graveson is a very very good place to start investigating options on a DIY Speaker.

I know from experiencing a few models from these designs and can say the ones heard have had a profound effect on myself, I actually believe I have heard extremely high end design for a Cabinet Speaker.

In a system very familiar to me that went through a few speaker changes over a few years, when the TG were introduced the systems End Sound was transformed in a way unimaginable.

There are high quality DIY speakers using top end drivers, solid cabinet plans, using  competent crossover designs and components. Madisound has a few kits I have been interested in building but I don’t have the need, space, or motivation at the time.

Building your own speakers is a labor of love. You might save some money but in my opinion you build because you enjoy it like any other hobby. I don’t have the design experience to design my own crossovers and it has been a number of years but still enjoy the North Creek Music System Vision Signatures and Okara II nearfield monitors I built. I’m currently looking into ways to refinish then so I can move them into a light controlled home theater. I may just cover them with a black velvet cover or tape.

You can always try building a subwoofer first. They are easier and you can find out if you enjoy the experience. The subwoofer in the background was the first DIY project, The NCM Leviathan 18" in a down firing end table design.

Great points mentioned here. 

You get tremendous value, in which performance and cost are a part of, building your own speakers..

You get to select cabinet material, crossover upgrades, wiring, binding posts, footers, etc... all to your taste from the very beginning. Big savings over buying speakers with these parts only to change them out. 

A hot build is Madisound’s TeXtreme 2-way. It gets down to 30hz and is easy to integrate into a room since it’s a 2-way. 

This cabinet is less intimidating than a floor stander. 

Minimal parts in crossover so speaker is very dynamic and has been reported to outperform speakers in 20K range. 

We made some Panzerholz versions of this cabinet in which we pinned (doweled) which makes it much easier for enduser to keep square while they glue/clamp up. 

It allows for others to get their hands dirty, which I encourage, that otherwise would not because of difficulty. 

Troel’s has some simple designs as well one might try. 

Think it all comes down to if you are a DIY kind of person or not. As said, you will get much higher quality parts, at much lower prices, so if you are bargain type of person. Yeah, you can make a $10k speaker for around $4k. Yes, the resale will be less, but it started out as less. 

Also when you DIY, you understand how it all work better, able to know what to upgrade, or change to get the sound you want. You can totally transform speakers with simple crossover changes. 

Consider Linkwitz

I started down this road/hobby last year, initially with a Parts Express kit and now having just finished my own design based off a Soundblab YouTube tutorial. As @pindac ​​​​@koestner point out, there are inherent learning curves and initial investments in tools, but it's not particularly difficult, especially if you get the cabinet flat packed. 

You can get ready made crossovers from Madison if that part bothers you.  I did that 20 years ago when building a pair of Dick Olsher's Basszillas.  The top was a large acrylic sheet I had made for open baffle, a Lowther DX4 midrange and Chinese ribbon tweeter.  The bottom a big bass reflex box with a 16" driver, all damped and made out of very expensive Appleply sheets I put together with a plethora of wood screws, crossovers mounted on top. I was no woodworker, so that's not necessary. Used a circular saw to cut the wood sheets and it was airtight. They sounded wonderful, but years later I moved to a smaller place and had to get rid of it, although still have the Lowthers which I had reconed by Lowther America and never used again, should anyone want them.  I probably spent around $4000 in materials, of which the Lowthers were about $2500 back than.  I've actually never heard anything better, but the main point is when you build your own speakers, you develop an attachment to them you'd never have otherwise.  You learn more about sound than you ever thought possible, so, if for no other reason, I'd say it was worth it.  I think a kit would be fine.  After all, you're not going to have to make the drivers, and maybe not the crossovers.  A high sensitivity speaker is especially easy to build and/or play around with.  It's definitely worth the trouble. I have a nice setup now after several moves. It sure cost more.  But I REALLY miss those speakers (they're in my little pic up there).

Heard good things about Mark Audio MOAP drivers.  Any opinions here?

Available at Madison Sound.  

My first high-end speakers were a pair of Bozak Concert Grands back in the late 1970s.  Hand build, hand-rubbed finish.  Beautiful looking and beautiful sounding.  Tri-amped.  

Very satisfying.  I moved on because we purchased a different home and the room was not fit for those monster-size speakers.

I've been building speakers for the last 40+ years with varying degrees of satisfaction.  Recently built a speaker that has outperformed every one of its predecessors.  No more building.  

"@kennyc Also seems fun to build.What’s your opinion?"

imo, If you are doing this from scratch - have the tools, curiosity, and motivation to build -vs- buy, it can be rewarding if you are the type of person who generally likes to tinker and build things.  If this is the case, enjoy the process and the journey.  

If you have never designed or built anything like this before, and have very high expectations on how it turns out - its worth spending up a little more [first time] buying a proven kit with the right drivers and crossovers, with cabinet plans, or explore cabinets you can purchase through the product designer if desired.  

@duramax747 stated "  We made some Panzerholz versions of this cabinet in which we pinned (doweled) which makes it much easier for enduser to keep square while they glue/clamp up. "

Now you are in the area for Materials Selected where Kaiser Speakers are with producing Cabinet Construction.

Please let more be known if you have seen differences in the quality of End Sound through adopting this material type. 

https://www.monoandstereo.com/interview-with-rainer-weber-of-kaiser-acoustics/

I myself am very tempted to use P'holz at some point as a Baffle for a Speaker Design.

I have gone this route and built what I think are pretty darn good speakers using Dayton Audio and Morel components, and a professionally designed crossover, but now I want something new and they are nearly impossible to sell, even for a fraction of my outlay. So there’s that. 

If you have the necessary equipment, the space to do the work, and the will to learn because as in all new endeavors there is a learning curve absolutely go for it. 
 

For my beginner DIY speakers I took a very easy rout to convince me I could build something I like and also to experiment. Purchased some full range single speakers (TangBand W8-1808 $850 msp,, purchased used for $400, no complicated x-over), researched there ideal box size/volume. Found a pair of vintage Noresco speakers whose size matched the ideal size and are also made of 3/4" ply, no pressboard).  Beefed-up the walls to 1" thick, braced inside, mounted extra 3/4" front baffle (now total 1 1/2" thick front baffle). Installed the speakers and wired up. 

WOW,, I am sold on single driver full range cross-overless design. Wider and higher soundstage, highs are natural and right there, and the mid's steel the show... blah blah blah..

Only downside is bass. None, just none. But I have dual SVS SB1000 pro subs and the two together are wildly good. No concert level volume, these are only 8" and they are doing it all out of one voice coil. Up to 75db 80 db they are awesome. Jazz, ambient, electronic really shine. They even have me looking left and right. If I close my eyes I can see the music coming out of the walls. It''s crazy.

Blah Blah,, Blah Blah

There's always satisfaction to be had doing something with our hands. We don't have to design crossovers or fine-craft enclosures out of raw materials; just assembling a kit is satisfying, As some folks remarked, you feel closer to your gear when you have skin in the game (I paraphrase). Feels that way when I repair broken gear too.

About resale value... it depends. A pair of big Linkwitz showed up on craigslist a few months back. Very good looking DIY build, the guy was a woodworker, but it had an older driver set. Asking $3.5K if I recall. Just in the time it took me to ponder whether they would be a significant enough improvement over my current speakers, they were gone. Meanwhile, brand name speakers get reposted over for months at a time.

There are so many variables. I built a bookshelf enclosure from a plan from Markaudio that houses Alpair 10’s. I’ve tried them on a few different setups and felt they sounded pretty good. Recently I paired them with an old Harman Kardon A300 and have decided that I really don’t need to look any further. I have a couple decades experience as a carpenter and felt comfortable building them but I don’t think it’s beyond the skill level of anyone who has access to decent tools and maybe a friend who can provide assistance. Whatever the outcome, it’s a satisfying experience and I’d recommend doing so to anyone interested. Do some research first and find out about builds that might pair well with your amp/integrated/whatever

Building a really solid box seems to be a big chunk of the cost of some expensive speakers and there's cheap stuff at Home Depot and Menards that anyone could use to do this.  If you attached a porcelain floor tile to MDF it'd be near resonance free.  It'd cost next to nothing.

The key to having some resale is to pick a very good model to build from a well known vendor. If you go with something too obscure then there's a limited number of people following the design or vendor and without a following..tougher resale. 

I have the CSS 1TDX and 2TDX.  They were fun to build and sound awesome.  When you build something yourself, you have an extra attachment to it.  And the price to performance ratio is very high.

I have some homemade Magicos and melting that pile of aluminum was sort of intense but totally worth it.

I'm mid-design on a pair of 2 X 6.5" 2.5-way with a ribbon/AMT tweeter. I just got fascinated by the 2.5 way design, and the more I've dug into it, the more ingenious the 2.6 way design is. It's not a 20Hz 120dB bass monster, but rather a small to medium room design good to 40 Hz. It's been fun learning all the subtleties  of crossovers, step frequencies, and a bunch more. 

pindac,

Yes I believe Kaiser uses Pz for their bracing but not sure about baffles/side walls/top/bottom/back. Clicking the link you provided the image tells me no they do not. 

I have A/B/C tested MDF, Finnish birch, and Pz. In blind test you can distinguish a Pz cabinet over the others two quite easily. 

Without going into the many adjectives to describe Pz sonic merits the best way I can describe it is "It just sounds right". 

I have CNC machined many Pz cabinets, that the end user assembled, and despite the added cost not one has ever reached out stating they regretted using Pz. In fact the opposite is true. 

A DIYer reached out to me yesterday regarding a Linkwitz build in Pz.

From my experience having the mindset of no compromise with the objective of highest performance, you will save a lot of scratch upstream chasing cables, components, tweaks, etc...

@wolf_garcia - 

Sure it can definitely be a good idea as well as a fun project.  

@duramax747 Thank You for your reply.

Not the same as you have done, but along similar lines. 

There was a want to distinguish between Marine Quality Plwood  700Kg  m/3 - MU 25 900Kg m/3 - P'holz 1400Kg m/3

All made quite differently in relation to compression of Veneers and adhesion method for Veneers. 

The comparison was for a same model DD TT Plinth. 

Identical TT's >Tonearm >Cartridge was used with the same audio system.

The findings are a description very similar to your own.

The Panzerholz proved to be extremely attractive in use. The End Sound being just how it should be when compared. 

Individuals who supplied TT's and Plinths all use Panzerholz Plinths today. 

The owner of the P'holz Plinth moved on from a 25mm Thick Board to one that is 32mn Thick. 

My feelings are that the best reasons to go DIY is for the fun of it.  The worst reasons are because you started pricing components out and now are thinking "Well I can get the same parts as brand X for 1/20th the cost..." 

If you aren’t really jazzed at building and learning along the way you are not going to be happy.

Having said that, Audiogon needs more actual builders and less arm-chair builders.  The more people we have with hands on practical experience the better overall our hobby will be. 

So, yes you absolutely can get into any particular type of speaker for a lot less than commercial speakers in many cases, but if you aren’t already thinking about what you want in a speaker made just for you I think you are missing out and always run the risk of building a speaker kit based on how much money you save.

I am a victim of this often.  I see golf clubs which are $5,500 off for Labor Day and I immediately want to buy them.  I don’t even golf.  At all. 

If you do want to investigate this further head on over to DIYaudio or the Parts Express forums where the hard core builders hang out. 

Audiogon needs more actual builders and less arm-chair builders. The more people we have with hands on practical experience the better overall our hobby will be.

Word.

As a long time DIY’s, I would say that kits are an excellent way to go. 

From a sonic standpoint, the end results well end up sounding like a commercially available speaker at several times the price (5X is not unusual. 

That difference will drop a bit if you buy kits that include flat packs. 

If you can live with the cosmetic results, and the lower resale, DIY is the way to go sonically speaking. 

My current (hopefully my last*) DIY project is a pair of Curt Campbell’s and Jim Holtz’, "Bordeaux" designs. They are semi-open baffle. 

They use Aurum Cantus Aero Stricture tweeters, Accuton ceramic mids, and 2 8" woofers per speaker. I have about $3000.00 invested, but the end results are easily comparable to speakers at around $12-$15K.

Full disclosure, These are not mine, I haven’t decided on the finish yet. 

Other sources to check:

Troels Graveson - one of the best designers out there, Has many great designs. His high end level designs are pretty special. 

CSS

SpeakerHardware.com - Source of several of Curt Campbell and Jim Holtz’ kits and flat packs. This is where I got my Bordeaux flat packs. 

Speaker Design Works - Campbell’s and Holtz’ own site. Their new Anthology II are fantastic. Just a small step below my Bordeaux. 

Javad Shadzi is a fantastic designer. His Helios CM designs are a extremely good. 

*yeah, I've said that before. My previous pair of speakers, the late Jeff Bagby's Kairos and woofer modules were supposed to be my last. 

If you have the room and much of the proper equipment to do a good job of building the cabinet, then go for it with one of the established companies’ great kits. But economically, if you don’t already have all that fairly expensive equipment and know how to use it to good effect, then it doesn’t make much sense. Those who do can enjoy the building and view that as part of the "fun". I know a few people who build custom furniture for "fun". Are you willing to put off your gratification until you can get the speakers done and finished in a way that you or your wife are going to appreciate for a long while? But there is something nice about pointing to a great set of speakers and say "I built that."

At the end of the day, how much is your time worth? If you are going DIY to "save money", yet it takes you 100 hours of your dedicated time over a few weeks to build them and make them look pretty, is that 100 hours worth it to you? 

I mean, there are people who build airplanes in their spare time, so speakers aren’t a big stretch for those who have the means and the time. If you do this, enjoy and good luck. 

At the end of the day, how much is your time worth? If you are going DIY to "save money", yet it takes you 100 hours of your dedicated time over a few weeks to build them and make them look pretty, is that 100 hours worth it to you? 

@moonwatcher 

That's why they call it a hobby, isn't it? 

OP

DIY speakers? why Not. 

you get to choose the parts and design of the speaker you want. that's good reason

and you get to save money and importantly, it will sound as good as you can get

I have done DIY speakers when i was younger as I did not have the budget to buy any "branded" speaker. it was fun and you get to do what you want

However, .........

what you hear is what you want to hear, good enough, but not for me. why, because you don't know what you are missing unless you know what you are looking for. 

For me, people who DIY must contend with the end product they want to build. period, BUT, if they compare what they have done versus say the top brands of speakers in the market, then how will that fair? Note, a lot of R&D has been put into top branded and $$$ speakers. Then how can that Tech flow into a DIY box

don't think so

For me, the closest speaker I can DIY will be an Open Baffle speaker. I will buy the most optimum drivers and design a crossover (or copy) for optimal use. I will not have to contend with the speaker box design or materials used on the box.

IN the end, the final product, I must compare it with similar designs and see/listen where I am lacking or gaining. in my opinion, it's too time consuming/tiring that I rather pay for tech that is already built in the most popular speaker. 

besides, if we talk about it in forums, how will other people know how one speaker sounds if it was DIY? I will stick with a built one. 

My last point is, if you just want to build what you want to hear, then go with DIY.

just my opinion