Your sub experience: Easy or hard?

Slightly off topic and I apologize...

It's great to be reading these threads on subwoofers and hearing how many people are embracing the use of subs.  Also, there are true audiophile subs available now which, as I alluded to in my earlier post, just were not around when I started this hobby 30+ years ago.  All positive/fun stuff for this hobby we enjoy!

@riley804 
Why don’t you use wireless receivers/transmitters like this one:

https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Transmitter-Receiver-Subwoofers-Surround/dp/B00SJ49ZJQ/ref=sr_1_3?crid=3PPIQAUB5T43J&keywords=Wireless+receiver+for+sub&qid=1653536873&sprefix=wireless+receiver+for+sub%2Caps%2C107&sr=8-3
‘They are inexpensive, reliable and easy to setup. Without them I don’t know how I would manage to integrate four subs in my system given I don’t have a dedicated room. 

In the early ’90’s, I tried like heck to integrate a sub into my two-channel music system. All the subs I dragged home just didn’t integrate well since they were all essentially home theater subs that were non powered with passive internal low pass crossovers. It just didn’t work and I gave up. All of the cabinets were either band pass cabinets with just a port exiting the box or a typical down firing, ported cabinet. There seemed to be no such thing as an audiophile subwoofer back in the early ’90’s other than maybe some JBL models which were not obtainable to a broke kid right out of college.

Fast forward to 2020 when I started planning a completely new 2 channel system and with nearly 30 years of more experience (especially in the pro audio area), integration of a pair of 18’s was very easy. All passive speakers with outboard electronic x-over made it easy. Also, a much better budget certainly helps!

My 2nd system in another room is also using a pair of 12" low frequency drivers in sealed cabinets supplementing 8 inch two way stand mount speakers. Again, passive sub cabinets crossed over by an outboard Sumo crossover into dedicated subwoofer amplifier and dedicated mid-hi amp. It’s easy when you’ve done it a few times and know about how things should be initially set up (crossover point & slope, gain structure, etc.). Tweek a few things with the ears and one is good to go.

It depends what you are trying to do / solve with subs.  I have an extremely difficult problem so the solution, including using 2 subs was also difficult. The problem could not be solved without subs as placement was critical, simply buying a pair of speakers or amp with more bass only made the problem worse. 

I have a pair of Sopra 3s that I tried to integrate with a pair of REL s/812s. I tried for months to get them to sound acceptable in my room, even broke out the REW software. But no matter what I did those RELs wouldn't integrate well enough.

Someone proposed the idea that I didn't have enough control over the RELs and that they wouldn't necessarily go deep enough anyway. They said try to audition a pair of Rythmik f12s instead because of the number of controls on their back plate.

Well after a few months I did manage to get a pair and I found them extremely easy to integrate into my stereo system. And it only took me a few days in total to get it right. I then gave back the Rythmik f12s, sold off my REL S812s and bought a pair of Rythmik G22's. 

Couldn't be happier... Although I'm thinking about buying one more pair of them.

I have two REL S/812.  The reason for two is mono block amps.  I found the setup to be quite easy and once dialied in, the improved sound is well worth it.  The only issue I have is playing the occational disk/LP that is very heavy in the low-end bass.  Then the subs are just a little too present.  But overall, they are spot on the majority of the time, and if I have to turn them down a click or two at times it no big deal.  

It wasn't hard at all, it was fun. I enjoyed the "subwoofer crawl",messing with the crossovers, plugging and unplugging ports.I have two HSUs and one SVS.If the HSUs ever stop working I would have all SVS.Controlling all of settings from the listening chair is wonderful.

Like most anything it’s not hard if you apply the right tools in this case a sound meter or sound meter app.   

If you like to read, check this out......................

http://www.soundoctor.com/whitepapers/subs.htm

My sub experience was very easy.  Put the 2 (custom 18") subs in the corners where they belong (MUCH easier said than done - very heavy.)  Hooked up the amps to the subs (one per sub), connected the crossover / LP filter to the amps, connected separate cables from the preamp to the crossover.  Fired up the preamp and rest of the system.  Fired up the crossover, then the amps.  Played some music with REAL bass - Saint-Saens, Ravel, Respighi, Stravinski...  Adjusted the crossover level as the music played.  All good.  Done.  

Done. 

I have found it very easy to integrate a REL S510 between either my Magnepan 3.7 or Thiel 2.4’s in a smaller (11x 15 well damped room) as long as I only care about my single listening position. If you need to accommodate multiple listening positions or difficult room geometry it will likely prove much more difficult. I have found moving around my room from my sweet spot drastically changes integration as would be expected. Many here suggest using a mic and software in those cases.

In over 90% of Loudspeakers a good sub or 2 is always much more articulate. 
and go much lower in Bass. I have the SVS4000SB subs , even one is a substantial upgrade and sound fast tunefull and defined Sealed Bass is faster and more tunefull to below 18 HZ not many speakers can’t compete with that 

1200watts over 4,000watts peak for $1700 each with a great usable app 

a true audio bargain IMO.

Rythmiks! Great subs, and so far easy integration.

I have Vandersteen Quatros integration is perfect and easy 

I currently have a pair of Martin Logan 212 subs which were middle of the road to set up. The software gets you in the ballpark but you really need to use your ears to adjust the phase and the output level. I am running speaker cables from my speakers to the subs and I noticed a big difference between the speaker cables I used.

Prior to the Logan’s I have used several different REL subs and I always found them the easiest to integrate. I wanted to go with another pair of them instead of the Logan’s but the retailer I buy some of my gear from doesn’t carry REL. The Logan’s sound really good but they take a little more work to dial in than the REL’s.

No problem integrating  my modest Paradigm sub-woofer into my system. I put it in spot in the room that the instructions suggested would  be good. I followed the instructions as to how to connect it up. I put one of my stereo test CDs (I have one, for example from Stereophile) into the CD player, cued up the frequency test cuts.and adjusted the subwoofer's volume & extension  by ear. True, I had to get out of my listening chair several times to twiddle knobs, but it wasn't long before I got, as they used to say, close enough for concert. Over the next couple days I fine-tuned the volume and position of the sub by ear.

Super easy, no sub! 😁

I am on the side of they are a pain in the butt… well, were. I hear they are much easier to deal with now.

I bought four B&W 800 series (2 for audio) 25 years ago. Adjusted by ear and analytically using test tones and SPL. My system always sounded better with them but never did they sound perfectly integrated… I am sure my fault. But when I bought my current speakers I did so with the intent of not needing subs. I am very happy with the perfectly integrated sound.

I have two systems employing subs, one with DBA and one without.

The one with the DBA set up the fastest. I didn't have to mess with the sub locations and setting the amplifier controls was a breeze.

The other uses a single sub and I had to move it around quite a lot to find a spot that it could be heard at the listening position that was not also in the way. Where I wanted it and where it needed to be were quite different.

In both cases the subs are set to be operational below 50 Hz so no integration problems at all.

I didn't think it was to bad. I have a dedicated treated 11.5 x 14 room.

I have a pair of subs, moved them around the room while using REW to measure each position. Once I got the placement close to my liking I then used the on board adjustments of the sub and my Anthem ARC to dial it in. 

Getting them placed was a couple hours and tweaking them took longer but you'd expect that.

I am one of those DBA devotees and I feel that a distributed bass array, by its very nature, mitigates a lot of the difficulties inherent in single subwoofer integration.

Unlike single sub placement, it is almost impossible to screw up a DBA.

initial set up to sound good, was quick and easy...took some time to make fine adjustments, but not difficult, just listening and adjusting...then having a friend over so that one could listen while the other adjusted was a great help...all subs were REL...speakers were floor standers, monitors, and Magnepans (each in different systems)...

@erik_squires

Since you seem to be new here 😁

definitely not new here 😀. i read what goes on here and i just don’t feel the need that i need to reply to every post on here.

Please don't read this as a cry for help.  I'm genuinely looking to ask the community how hard a time they have had with subs.  My assumption is it's relatively hard but by asking others I get feedback to validate or refute them.

i am sure you can figure it out.   

the hard part is deciding which one ( or how many to get) and size.

I auditioned a REL T/9X in my system.  Once I understood, that in my particular set up, the subwoofer needed to be plugged into the power conditioner, it was very straightforward.  Getting the level and the crossover just right took a few days but the result was well worth the time I spent.  It made for a very nice addition to my system.

just wondering why the curiosity when you don’t use a sub as you say it’s not needed ?  or are you thinking of getting one now and want to know what other members went through?

@riley804  - Since you seem to be new here 😁 I like to talk about subjects that don't necessarily impact my system right now.  It makes the place more interesting than just talking about future purchases.

Also, I have used a sub in my stereo, but right now it's over on my HT.  I'm pro sub in general, my posts about why I chose not to use one right now is more about showing how rooms work and how much more important measurements are than specs.

Please don't read this as a cry for help.  I'm genuinely looking to ask the community how hard a time they have had with subs.  My assumption is it's relatively hard but by asking others I get feedback to validate or refute them.

My older REL Britannia B1 wasn't hard at all since it was set very low to run with full range speakers. And it has plenty of adjustments for fine tuning. Other subs have been a bit more difficult.

I'm now close to a DBA person with three sealed SVS subs doing a very good job in my room. But, for one single seating position, I'm not positive they top the B1 set properly on its own.

The first time with subs was not great. I got into home theatre once (not sure why, maybe I hit my head and thought it was a good idea haha) but the sub was too big, too bulky and ported. It never really meshed with HT or audio. The 2nd time was strictly for stereo and it went together much better. I had a better designed sub, non ported, better acoustics in another room and it sounds superb. I think my planning and integration was better. The 2nd sub was Rythmik and the first was SVS. Also I ditched all the advice that stated "you must tune the sub to your room acoustics by measuring and adjusting and measuring some more". I did my tuning by ear and it sounds fantastic.

 Presumably: Distributed Bass Array

I’ve had Rel subs for 20 years and have never had any issue integrating them.

Now on another note, What are "DBA people"

DBA = double Blind A**holes

Don’t burp at all, Ditch bunny assoc, dirt build assembly?????????

I Hate anagrams because they are used W a a a y too much

Subs are a pain in the pitootie. Adjusting it so it sensed not heard means that you have to unplug it (no power switch) to do a comparison...so I bought a second one???  The first configuration left and right of center just wasn't right  Lots of muddy overbearing bass.  They are currently stacked and turned way down.  I'm pairing them with high efficiency speakers and the gain curve  of the speakers doesn't exactly match the subs so they're set to work best at a specific volume.

The biggest issue is the recordings.  The amount of bass energy from one recording to the next is exaggerated with the subs. Depending on the track used to set them, the next tracks have way to much or way to little. 

That being said "Poema" by Eduardo Niebla • Antonio Forcione is way to much fun to be without them.

I would say the degree of difficulty for me was moderate.

I just put a REL 9 into my system and it was fun. LD let me demo SVS and REL. The only thing hard was determining whether to go with 2 small subs or 1 big one. I decided to blow current budget on one big one and then scrape cash until i could afford to get a 2nd unit.  Only regret is I did not demo 2 smaller units.

For those of us with subwoofers, I’m curious whether you thought integrating it was easy or difficult. That’s it.

just wondering why the curiosity when you don’t use a sub as you say it’s not needed ?

or are you thinking of getting one now and want to know what other members went through?

i started with one and soon after added a second one.     was not hard adding them to the system.       only thing i might have done differently and still can is get longer cables as would give more options for placement.