We have been in this pursuit for the same about amount of time. Absolutely nothing has changed in the process if you want to be efficient about it. There are less audio stores. But you use those, maybe find some local audiophiles to listen to their systems, and read Stereophile, The Absolute Sound, and HiFi+.
A survey of influences will be largely a waste of time. Watching YouTube videos can waste enormous amounts of time to asses if you can believe them… most are too biased or many lack experience. Hard work and money is still the key. You can get info from here… particularly from those that try explain their systems and preferences and post their systems so you can assess their preferences.
I have gone through a major upgrade about every five to ten years for the last fifty years. About thirty years ago I got my first tube component, a preamp… then every so slowly (not purposefully moving to tubes) one component after another became tubed. The move was driven by increased exposure to real acoustic music. Including over ten years with season tickets to the symphony. I slowly realized that by concentrating on details and bass… the imaging, etc… I had largely lost the musical involvement and emotional connection. As I added one after another great tube component the music came back. My system is now invisible to my ears… I am pulled into the music. You can see my systems under my UserID.
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I ignore most of such. On the other hand, build your own channel and speak whatever you wanna speak about and you'll find followers.
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It’s about view counts over honesty now.
Phooey.
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the odds of (1) an experienced audiophile (2) with high level gear and (3) music experience also having the (4) motivation, (5) personality and (6) technical knowledge to do YouTube commenting (6) effectively is remote. if they are already in the HiFi business then they have (7) agendas.
YouTube is about ’click-bait’......so they have to be controversial or turn over gear quickly to keep attention from subscribers. both those approaches are not really what most serious audiophiles are interested in. sure; hifi newbies do like to be entertained.......which is the relevant audience for this stuff.
i’d rather look to fellow hobbyists or reviewers i know for feedback, and reserve YouTube for entertainment and real world ’how-to’ info.
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I cannot add anything to M. lavigne post...
😊
But in fact i may say that i listened to some for their human persona more than for my needs in Audio... Anyway i listen music now satisfied with my acoustic experience i dont need anything ... I listen audio youtuber for their human qualities mostly and by curiosity ... I like people...😊
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I do not watch You Tube videos of equipment reviews done by an influencer. I don't trust them, and they always have their own agenda. Just who are they influencing and why would anyone listen to these people? They are going for likes & money, nothing more.
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I far prefer written text, so I can pore over it, scrutinize it, go back and re-read; I find talking head videos abysmal at conveying information, especially when done improvisationally and off the cuff. Lot of wasted time for me. I can quickly scan a written article in minutes or less to see if it is relevant. Videos are cumbersome in that respect.
I get that the current generation relies on YT for all kinds of things. It may make sense with a repair issue, where, for example, the narrator guides you through steps and the visuals of a disassembly are shown. But for opinion and listening it is usually a non-starter for me.
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I agree with most of the opinions here. Some of the British reviewers are quite good--I like them better than some of the ones over here. I really despise the reviewers who claim they have found their 'end system' only to review new components a month later. I can't give any credibility to that.
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While some reviewers speak the truth, they cannot be 100% trusted because at the end of the day only your own system, room and ears can properly judge a new piece of equipment, regardless of what they say or their experience level.
I may watch occasional reviews. Not to get an opinion of how something sounds, but to learn about the features of a product that I may be interested in.
I use my own intelligence, experience and ears (period).
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You tube hifi influencers. Love them or hate them?
How about, "ignore them"?
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I stick with reviewers/influencers with some (or a lot) of technical knowledge.
If I come away from a review having learned something general about the technologies involved, I subscribe to the channel.
Tarun, A British Audiophile, is usually instructive.
I used to like Gutenberg, but now I'm more skeptical. He's mastered a kind of hip, easygoing, Brooklyn-esque patter -- a master showman, who's been plumping products for a long time. I have no doubts he's genuinely smart and an audiophile, but he pushes out so much content that his "excitement routine" ("Today's show is really special!") seems pretty hackneyed. And, TBH, a bit sad. A guy that smart could be spending his time in other ways. Still, who am I to judge?
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YouTube today is no different from print magazines of the past. Only the delivery format and frequency have changed. I say this as someone who has been published in both formats over the last 25 years in the automotive and motorsports category.
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I attend one or two audio shows a year and trust my own ears.
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I beg to differ from your dismissing opinion...😊
Your analysis is very good and i concur...
I stick with reviewers/influencers with some (or a lot) of technical knowledge.
If I come away from a review having learned something general about the technologies involved, I subscribe to the channel.
Tarun, A British Audiophile, is usually instructive.
I used to like Gutenberg, but now I’m more skeptical. He’s mastered a kind of hip, easygoing, Brooklyn-esque patter -- a master showman, who’s been plumping products for a long time. I have no doubts he’s genuinely smart and an audiophile, but he pushes out so much content that his "excitement routine" ("Today’s show is really special!") seems pretty hackneyed. And, TBH, a bit sad. A guy that smart could be spending his time in other ways. Still, who am I to judge?
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Thomas Skhong posting his system and MikeLavigne system. I am impress how he did it. I got good idea how both their system sound. Thomas gave a good description as well. Of course I would prefer to listen in person . YouTubers Ok but I will still listen and audition in person if I can.
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I take any review with a grain of salt. Some reviews are dead on, I didn't buy my DAC based on reviews but it was nice to see it get some praise by several reviewers
Hopefully if something is a real turd you'll read about it but as many have said You Tube is all about clicks and hits.
I give more credibility to forum posts when it comes to perceived quality and reliability.... unfortunately sound quality is a matter of personal taste so I let my ears have the final say.
Steve Guttenberg's only flaw is that he is super passionate about, and loves all things audio. I was in the biz at a trade show years back and afterwards ended up having dinner with Steve and Mike Fremer among others. Steve was a super nice guy and it was obvious he's a sucker for anything that makes music.
Steve Huff. He falls in love with stuff too... so do I, it happens
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To be an influencer means you care about influencing. Not my style, so I pass.
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EZ. Just dont turn on Youtube. Listen to music.; it sounds better. I do read specific reviews, but always with a shaker of salt.
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Opinions are like AH's, everybody has got one.
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I like some of them: OCD Mikey for example strikes me as honest- I states "I'm a dealer I want to sell you what I like"
The Chinese Dude- Thomas & Stereo does a pretty good job unless he's pitching some ChiFi stuff. Way back when I bought a Suncoz introductory priced DAC based on his recommendation and hated it. He is honest about his amp- Galleon. He openly states he wants you to buy it because he makes it. That's pretty honest in my book.
Paul McGowan's PS Audio daily vids are good. He is honest about his intentions to sell you his gear. Again- to me that's solid.
Shameless plug for my local dealer who I have really grown to love- he doesn't post youtube vids and I'm after him to do so. He's brutally honest and has guided me to lower priced items that turned out to be well-bought. He can't discount some stuff like his Magnepan, Audio Research and Sonus Faber lines but one time he bought the pen in my pocked for $12,000 cash right after I bought a set of Audio Research Reference 160m Mk2 amps. Apparently he really liked Bank Of America blue plastic pens! audioexcellence.us in Murrells Inlet SC. Eric is the owner. help him out if you can. High-end 2 channel dealers are dying off rapidly. Plus he pours Woodford in his listening room. :)
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Hate them but for a different reason. I will only watch youtube if there is no other way to get the info and I need it really badly. 99% of the time, if I'm sitting, I'm listening to music. So I want to read info, not listen to it. My ears are occupied. So I never go there.
Of course the monitization of the internet is moving all info to aural. not good.
Jerry
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I have found YouTube videos quite valuable when I am considering buying a new piece of gear. One of these days I'm going to buy a dedicated streamer (I currently use a laptop) and I've watched videos on several different models. A video is an excellent way to review something like a streamer because it has an app that can be complicated to set up and you can see what the display looks like when in use.
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Most of them selling another cold day in hell.
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Some good opinions here and no doubt we should trust our own ears but there are many who do not have good dealers close to where they live to personally audition gear.
I think some of the online reviewers have limited value, but what often is the greatest problem is #1, a lack of technical knowledge, and 2, no long term reporting that can give a clue to reliability, among other things. Like many of you, my system is largely tube based although rather modest with a Conrad Johnson LS17 preamp and some Quicksilver Mid Mono Power Amps, both with vintage quality tubes.
Recently, I was thinking about diving into the world of 300B based amps. No local dealers had any 300B amps to audition, despite living in a city of 3 million population. So I did a google search which took me to, among many reviews, some you tube reviews of 2 very inexpensive ChiFi amps, available from Amazon, or direct from China, and these 2 amps had universal praise from you tubers Guttenberg, Thomas and Stereo, Jay’s Iyagi, and Steve Huff.
Thankfully, another you tuber, Skunkie Designs, who has extensive technical knowledge, posted about some serious circuit deficiencies in those amps that were creating both performance and reliability issues as well as showing the mods to correct the issues.
I’m sure there are many people who were lured into buying these amps and regret it. So theres the good and the bad of it I guess.
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I think it pays to have an open mind about "influencers." In this hobby, the numbers of brands, the flood of new products, the relatively fewer shops that carry any audio gear pretty much require a willingness to explore the web for information. That, of course, does not preclude a certain degree of skepticism. Let’s not pretend that traditional print reviewers were immune to a relationship with sponsors. One paid for a subscription, but a substantial amount of revenue at those outlets came from industry advertising, and that required a relationship of goodwill with those same companies. The business model was never that of Consumer Reports.
I find some reviewers on YouTube to be very helpful, many of whom take a more technical approach and bring an engineering perspective to the review, something very few audio store salesmen possess. I am not talking about the irritating "Hey guys" ADHD personalities who need a course in effective presentation. Taron from A British Audiophile, Erin’s Audio Corner, and even Amir from ASR offer valuable service. With Amir, you just can’t afford to be thin-skinned. I think one would be deliberately benighting one’s inquiry to ignore them.
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Most of the Youtubers seem to rely on drama, manufactured conflict and artificial "excitement" to create clicks. They're easy to ignore.
A few of the "influencers" have posted here and have become downright nasty. So it's easy to see them for what they are.
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Sampled a few videos. Lost interest mostly. The only videos I found interesting were the ones where the "influencer" was able to interview on camera a bona-fide industry pro.
Those interviews I found interesting. Mastering engineers, performers, and amp designers...
But just watching a talking head "infuencer"? blah...
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Does anyone know what happened to Markonhifi?? He had some good reviews and his channel was growing----then poof! He suddenly disappeared. Very odd.
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This forum is full of oily trolls aka influencers. .
...using multiple user names single person can play multiple roles in the same thread
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@chenry
I think it pays to have an open mind about "influencers." In this hobby, the numbers of brands, the flood of new products, the relatively fewer shops that carry any audio gear pretty much require a willingness to explore the web for information.
This is exactly right. And can people honestly tell me that their experiences with brick/mortar stores were not a mix of pressure/BS and honest assistance? Every store I ever visited has had an intense motive to sell the gear they chose and to discount or have no opinions about other gear. Of course they need to stay in business -- and that’s totally part of the game. But often they are not good people to look to for objectivity. YouTube and magazine have some advantages, there.
@cleeds
Most of the Youtubers seem to rely on drama, manufactured conflict and artificial "excitement" to create clicks. They’re easy to ignore.
Not my experience. In my opinion, this is a misuse of the word "most." There are quite a few which do not rely on drama:
- Currawong
- Passion for Sound
- Tarun a British Audiophile
- Hans Beekhuyzen
- Darko
- Ken Micallef
- Joshua Valour
- Pearl Acoustics
- Zero Fidelity
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I listen to multiple reviews and put more weight on the reviewer who seems more reliable. Consider this review of the Borrenson x3 speaker. The absolute Sound reviewer says you have to “crank it up” to get the speaker to sound its best.
Whereas The Audiophiliac says just the opposite.
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The only one I remotely trust is Tarun, A British Audiophile. All the others I take with a grain of salt.
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I don't hate or love any of them. If they're talking about something of interest to me, I'll generally watch, and if not, I generally don't. Same with vinyl community or any other channels.
And I don't 'trust' any of them more or less than I would somebody commenting on a forum; it's not like people on forums never have agendas.
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Steve Guttenberg is the Larry David of audio. All others I hate.
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The problem I have with Steve Guttenberg is he has said he will never give a bad review. I do have some problems with that. Also, many reviewers (Possibly Steve) are pay to play reviewers and I definitely have a problem with that. Some reviewers claim the product they reviewed is the BEST EVER and then a week later review something else and make the same statement about that product. I do watch the reviews just to get a general idea about the product but go to AXPONA every year to listen and see the products myself.
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@mesonto
"The only one I remotely trust is Tarun, A British Audiophile"
I agree. He is one of the few I like and trust enough to watch.
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I honestly dislike YouTube content for many of the reasons stated in this thread. YouTube's content creator model is designed around attention. The more attention something gets, the more the influencer is paid. As such all content needs to be tailored about retaining attention vs straight out providing education and value.
I've found value in any part of the audio system is a personal thing. I enjoy providing value to those who seek it, rather than to broadcast something in a shiny way and try to influence people on it. I do review products I deal for periodically, but only when it truly knocks my socks off. When I do review products, I make this content in the format of exhaustive written reviews rather than through videos. I don't get paid for my reviews, nor do I get money for the amount of traffic or views it drives. I just want to express my experiences with the gear and hope it helps someone out. But hey, I've only written two reviews, and in most cases, I prefer to just add value by providing guidance in these forums.
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Like all things…some discernment needed….. Live a little, cast a wide net…. filter…
Audiophile know thyself……
Also….. make some great friends….. in a city of 3million….there are probably 100 w 300B amps…..
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To the OP….. let us know if the CJ and the Quicksilvers become cast aways…. IMO , those were / are excellent choices…..
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When researching equipment you cannot see in person, YouTube influencers play an important role in showing and speaking about that component. Sometimes they are nothing more than glorified infomercials, but even that helps with your research.
I bought a Luxman integrated amp earlier this year that was a special edition of only 300 worldwide (L-595A SE), and there was no way to see it or audition it. Both Steve Huff and Steve Gutenberg had reviewed it enthusiastically and I appreciated their insights. They both seem to have a genuine enthusiasm for good audio equipment, and get excited about it. I have noticed that Steve Guttenberg has varying levels of enthusiasm, so you have to read between the lines, and he does have clear opinions. I imagine that he does not post negative or bad reviews so as not to scare away manufacturers and distributors from sending him gear, but if he doesn't like something he simply does not post a review about it. Emphasize the good and positive, ignore the bad and negative.
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OP
“Recently, I was thinking about diving into the world of 300B based amps. No local dealers had any 300B amps to audition, despite living in a city of 3 million population. So I did a google search which took me to, among many reviews, some you tube reviews of 2 very inexpensive ChiFi amps, available from Amazon, or direct from China, and these 2 amps had universal praise from you tubers Guttenberg, Thomas and Stereo, Jay’s Iyagi, and Steve Huff.
Thankfully, another you tuber, Skunkie Designs, who has extensive technical knowledge, posted about some serious circuit deficiencies in those amps that were creating both performance and reliability issues as well as showing the mods to correct the issues.”
I think you are correct here with these statements. I did the same thing and that experience and many others has led me to believe it’s pointless to buy equipment based upon these reviews. In fact one Chinese company utilizes the 805 tube that I have come to find out gets far too hot and can overload causing a fire or explosion. Nevertheless at least 2 YouTube reviews gave it high praises.
It’s difficult to navigate the Hi-Fi waters and choose components, sometimes I think the salesman at the old brick and mortar store was the better chance at getting good information. Even on audiogon, you will find bias fanboys vs people who condemn equipment, but have never heard it or had experience with the company who manufactured it.
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