Just wondering. Music is supposed to soothe the soul. If you are in reasonably good health for your age, have a good system and good music to play on it you have it pretty good it seems to me. These are blessings! Be thankful for what you got?
- People hate having their beliefs questioned and challenged - Some don’t suffer fools easily
Did you see how I did an analysis of why people are angry while making people angry at the same time? Yep, its a gift :-)
I am rarely angry, but i dont suffer dogmas parading as science....Or sophistry parading as intelligence... Or free sarcasm at the expanse of some group of people , here "audiophiles"...
If you are "cool" like i usually am, perhaps you will be able to read your post in a cool way and walking through your own sarcasm, you will discover why you are a sophist all the time along...It is only an elementary logic exercise dont be afraid!
I will help you....
Replace the word "angry" you apply to all "audiophiles" by the word "stupidity" then read your post, you will discover easily the fallacy of your sarcastic sophistry... And you will no more laugh at the expanse of someone...
So why people are stupid? -People hate having their beliefs questioned and challenged ( except me) -Some dont suffer people stupid easily ( especially me)
Did you see how i did an analysis of why people are stupid while making people stupid at the same time? Yep, its a gift:)
«Why are you so intelligent Groucho they said? Simple, when i look at someone very stupid i go to look myself in a mirror first »- Groucho Marx
Used to be that people with "far out" views of how things worked lived in obscurity, believing what they believed, going on with life, angry at the world perhaps, but content because they were somewhat shielded from it.
Fast forward to now. Not only are they no longer shielded, but they can embrace their views, stand on their soap box, and gather a like audience. But just like the world is no long shielded from their "far out" views, they are not shielded from having them any more.
People love to share their beliefs, they want everyone to agree with them to validate those beliefs, but like all things based on belief, they don't stand up well to scrutiny.
So why are people angry?
- People hate having their beliefs questioned and challenged - Some don't suffer fools easily
Did you see how I did an analysis of why people are angry while making people angry at the same time? Yep, its a gift :-)
No matter how much you spend. No matter how good the reviews. Whatever you have there will be someone to criticize it. When i close my eyes and just listen to my system and it puts a smile on my face. That is all that matters to me..
It's all a question of scale. Somewhere along the line we lost our sense of proportion. Does the difference between a SR blue and orange fuse matter as much as a 1 meter or 2 meter sea level rise worldwide? Yet they're argued over with equal fervor.
A component of the human condition, but learning to realize it in every waking moment can make a notable difference in one’s sense of peace. And thus one’s missives will change. Age can take care of this, in some cases.
I for one have not posted a question on this forum simply because I didn't want to read the inevitable responses from those in attack mode. But, it is not a constant it ebbs and flows. I will certainly post again as I do enjoy the interaction.
We may think that we are all connected by a common hobby, but the fact is we lead very separate lives and that one commonality is a very thin thread indeed. Thank you Mapman.
I have a relatively (for this forum) inexpensive system. Sometimes I get angry because its not a reference system and I see its warts. Sometimes I am fully content because the music its playing is wonderous.
When I am in the anger mode, I try to remember I have a loving wife who understands my need for a dedicated listening space and the occaisonal equipment upgrade. I also remember that my address is not a cardboard box, I have enough to eat and hopefully a sufficient retirment nest egg.
Lets face it, everything beyond that is essentially a luxury.
I try to speak to others as I would like to be spoken to.
The tough lesson is understanding "the more you do it, the more likely you will continue to do it". You practice good behavior, you will be treated in kind.. "Turn the other cheek" is good for ONE turn. There is NO "S" on cheek.
When empathy and mutual respect are left out of the conversation, it's not a conversation it is a LECTURE.
I see that as a HUGE problem.. When the person that's posing the question is just looking for others input. If we can't look back and see good, in our answer, it's best to just erase it.. If you can't offer and honest answer without insult, BE QUIET.
I'm one happy fellow, BUT I find animals a lot more truthful the older I get...THUS I stay happy. I care for them and they care for me... AND the Good GOOD Lord takes care of both of us. Good health, and a safe and secure family goes a long way for this old Dad, too..
Perhaps angry folks are just afraid to adjust their paradigm to the changing times. Change is frightening (to some). 'If you can't see my point, or believe how I do, you're an idiot' There are as many roads back home as there are travelers. I gotta say, I'm the consistently happiest person I know. I just let people be who their gunna be. Allowance.
These are volatile times for sure. That's why I have decided to not engage in any political arguments or discussions on THIS site. I have a lot of opinions but I had to ask myself why I joined this site and engage in these forums. It was to learn from others all things audio. I have learned much with a long way to go. I will have my political discussions/ arguments on other social media sites and in person and leave this for all things audio! Happy New Year, left or right and may we all enjoy the wonder of music to the fullest extent possible.
OP: Good question. It has been one of the thing most likely to abandon the forum. While you posed it as a rhetorical question, my assumption is that we can’t just "call on our better natures" to stop being angry. We need to think about why it’s happening.
Here are a couple thoughts. I’m sure there are other reasons. This is a forum and I’m spitballing.
1. We are in a culture where debate is modeled constantly for us on television and other popular media. There, disagreement must be stark and dramatic or it’s not entertaining. If it’s not entertaining, it’s not watchable and people turn away -- and the purpose of TV is to make money. This is why it’s called an "Attention Economy."
So, many of us (consciously or unconsciously) repeat the way we see argument modeled on TV. That leads to anger in our lives.
2. Political debate has become more acrimonious because it takes place largely according to its dominant format -- TV. (See point 1 above.). We create political debates (in tone, form) out of debates about audio. We need to stop doing that. As you point out, we’re debating over luxury items.
3. People ask questions they care about, but these wind up requiring deeper technical knowledge or greater experience than most on the forum have. Yet, it’s no fun to participate in a forum and not write *something.* When people get a bull-hockey answer or a half-assed answer to a question they care about, it annoys them, and they express that. Or -- their question is just ignored. Conflict is now lit.
4. Relative anonymity leads people to say things they wouldn’t in person. For some reason, people think that they can discharge whatever off-forum anger they have, here. Weird thing about anger, though. Unlike the "catharis" theory of anger -- the idea that anger is like pressure that needs to be "released" -- acting in angry ways just makes you (and others) angrier. (See: "Venting doesn’t work even among people who believe in the value of venting, and even among people who report feeling better after venting (Bushman, Baumeister, & Stack, 1999). In fact, venting has the opposite effect—it increases aggression. The better people feel after venting, the more aggressive they are. Venting can even increase aggression against innocent bystanders." https://alltheragescience.com/commentary/four-questions-on-the-catharsis-myth-with-dr-brad-bushman/ )
Perhaps because of my age I have recently developed a certain intense dislike for the over abundance of self-righteousness I perceive around me in social media as well as another forms of media. Regardless of the subject matter politics, religion, love, sexual inclinations, and yes speakers and cables, ..I forgot the great dialectic about analog versus digital , it appears that this psychological malady is permeating our social fabric. Since I think it would be challenging to treat those individuals suffering from this malady, the best we can do is to treat its manifestation, so it does not infect the rest of us. How? Since ego plays such important role in the attitude of the self-righteous a possible solution is the use of shame. Hence language is the tool, we should not stand indifferent or silent to any instance, but point out how laughable that utterance is, the intensity of the ridicule measured to the degree of stupidity of the self-righteous manifested in its message, not only based on its content but as important in the tone of voice used to deliver it. I hope I am forgiven, it’s too early and I have not had my first cup of coffee.
"Hail to the man who went through life
always helping others, knowing no fear, and to whom aggressiveness
and resentment are alien."
"The only thing more dangerous than ignorance is
arrogance."
"Stay away from negative people. They have a
problem for every solution."
"I speak to everyone in the same way, whether he
is the garbage man or the president of the university."
"I believe in intuitions and inspirations. I
sometimes feel that I am right. I do not know that I am."
"Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of Truth and
Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the Gods."
What does this have to do with the OP? Nothing, directly. But it does apply to a common occurrence found on these threads. If you've been on these threads for any length of time you will know exactly what this post is about. +1 to mapman and +1 to inna and +1 to any others who have shown compassion for others.
Anything that exhibits a high level of emotional involvement is bound to engender an elevated degree of conflict over choices made to enjoy such....
Vivaldi vs. Van Halen, and how to listen with what where when and why. So much like sport fans, overlaid with more than just whose jersey one shoulders.... *S* At least we don't sit in stadiums smeared with team colors wagging foam hands....or do we?
Tubes, or tragedy. Solid States of sibilance. The A, A/B, D factions struggle over the possession of Truth and Beauty.
"VTA, VTA, all is involved in VTA!"....one can almost hear the chant of the section, while the digital division debates a retort...
Pretty damn funny, if one steps to one side of the crowds... ;) All this, for bliss....truly transient, totally engrossing edification.
What a wonderful motley mess we is. (Hope your team 'wins'....*G*)
Enjoy your music by whatever means is meaningful to you. 'Nuff said....
I know I don’t have the technical knowledge or the experience with equipment of many on this forum, so it is easy for me to find threads that discuss something interesting to me. I especially enjoy the postings of those who can take a highly technical subject and explain it in terms that the average person, like me, can understand.
Of course, I notice the sparring here and took that as a duel of wits, but then obviously it gets testy at times. I just skim over what doesn’t interest me, and I have sampled other audiophile forums for a frame of reference. I still prefer coming here.
Thanks Mapman, you make a good point. This used to be an enlightening forum in every sense of the word. Social media rage appears to have found it's way here. Hopefully the self appointed judges of all posters will get tired of telling everyone how to think and go troll somewhere else...but it's not likely.
There's still plenty of good content here and plenty of people who love music and get enjoyment from working with their systems.
My primary goal, from archaic GE turntable/radio combination to current OPPO/Maggie system is that the equipment is a tool that delivers music. I have $ tens of thousands more tied up in media that can become music than in the equipment itself. Yes, it's good to upgrade the equipment as personal tastes, equipment availability and budget allows, but should I ever win a $ million lottery, 99 % of the winnings aren't going towards equipment upgrades.
I guess the anger comes from some that can no longer relax whilst hearing the music.
I didn’t really start loving this hobby until I went down my own path, against the grain, outside and away from the sheep fold, to find the best sound possible. This next year others may discover what I did: Diamond Streaming.
Well, we better make sure not to be ruled by fascists soon. I just donated $200 to food banks, will probably do it again in spring. I may be bad but not the baddest. I save on my own food to buy audiophile stuff, by the way, but no I am not hungry at all.
We are angry and paranoiac some times just because we always think that we are missing something in our best SQ pursuit, however any good psychiatrist can tell you that mild paranoia could have positive effect on person behaviour and leading to good results in some jobs. So it’s totally fine, it’s just pushing us to constant improvement rush.
Interesting topic, I know I’ve trigged more than my fair share of audiophiles...this is a great forum for learning and sharing a common interest.
I for now am happy with my NAD HT receiver, I chose it for a dual purpose and I’m not disappointed. Hard to be angry when it captures the emotions of the music.
so cheers to all-I’m thankful for the great deals I’ve gotten on second hand gear, that allows me to relax to great tunes...
Absolutely! For the last two years I've had the excitement of a teenager with their first stereo. I got mine out from a 15 year hibernation. As I sit her tonight, listening to a very clean UK first pressing of Led Zeppelin III, I realize life couldn't be much better! It's been a blast starting my vinyl collection up again and upgrading all of my components. I'm very thankful.
There is no room for anger. Even when there is a disagreement with buying vinyl online. Today I donated a copy of Paul Desmond Take Ten to my local used hi fi/record shop for the owner to sell. The grading was way off yet the seller was uncompromising. It gave me more pleasure to donate the album to my home town guy and let him sell it cheap to somebody else than return it and have bad feelings about the seller. I'll just avoid him from here on out.
Yes, 5k for a pair of cables would buy food for a lot of people. You're way out of touch. This country stands for the rule of law not the treasonous blind allegiance to a single individual. We fought the war of independence to escape the authoritarian rule of King George III.
I'm very fortunate to be able to work from home, during this mess. Don't know what I'd do without some decent music/equipment to listen to, so yes I'm very thankful. It will be interesting how many "pots" will be commenting on the "Black Kettle".
Most audiophiles are comfortably ensconced in their nice houses with their 5k+ systems to sooth their sensitive nerves. Meanwhile the bottom 50% are struggling to just keep up with their daily expenses. The little audiophile spats are really disgusting when compared to what's happening in this country. Have you no sense of history and what this country stands for?
there is not here so much angry audiophiles than frustrated one...
And frustration is not anger, even if frustration can give rise to anger in few cases....
Because they’ve realized, all too late, that chasing this hobby is just chasing the dragon and the returns are always diminishing.
This hobby is NOT about chasing his tail or the dragon tail; it is about figuring out HOW to put a good audio system(not a costly one only) in the conditions that will make it able to work at his optimal potential...
For me it is installation of some embeddings controls in the mechanical,electrical and acoustical dimensions...
After this is done you are no more frustrated, and the upgrading process that is, chasing his tail, ended completely... And the pursuit of the dragon tail, a costly dream of a new electronic component, end also...The diminishing returns are no more a fact that apply to someone who dont need to purchase anything because his audio system, working at his true potential give finally only pure musical joy...
The PROBLEM of this hobby is the marketing conditioning of people to purchase something, the SOLUTION in this hobby is being creative and begin to address the 3 main problems: decreasing the noise floor of the house, drecreasing and controlling of mechanical vibrations and resonance, treating and putting in place good setting and device for the acoustic of the room....
It seems to me that things have been much more pleasant around here lately. Also I didn’t notice any audiophiles in that crowd visiting the Capitol Building last week. Spotted a few attitudes there.
Naming someone in his absence, even the devil himself, and linking that mention of his name to not any specific post but only to speak about him in a way which is not positive is .... something i dont like ....
Sorry....
Even in this peaceful thread that practice seems to exist... Alas!
This come from my years in school, when the full class was focussing his attention against one whatsoever the reason...And it was not me that was bullied by the way.....😊
I agree. I'm not sure what it is. I'm on other forums unrelated or less related to this one and folks are more open and excited just to have others with the same interests to "talk to/with"--i.e. guitar forums, diy audio forums, etc. The consumer electronics side of things is really bizarre to me in this way.
For instance, on diy audio threads or guitar threads, people are more apt to just help. If they cannot help or offer something meaningful, they don't jump in. Here, there are tons of trolls, haters, malcontents, and people who engage in schadenfreude. What gives?
Now--full disclaimer--there have been soooooo many here on Audiogon who have helped me over the years! But it is something to me that many threads I put up involve people making off topic comments, arguing, etc. Bizarre!
Social media trolls are just like any other antagonists. Take road rage for instance. When that overly aggressive driver pulls up next to you and starts honking the horn, he/she is just begging for you to look over and give him/her the fuel needed to continue the burn. When you ignore them, it takes all the wind out of their sails. I have been baited once or twice in these forums. I never respond back in any provocative way because I refuse to give them the fuel they are looking for. They aren’t worth the effort it takes to lower myself to their level. When I respond to posts here, I try very hard to make it clear that what I say is just my opinion, as it applies personally to me and my system, and not something carved in the stone of the audiophile world. How could it possibly be otherwise? We all have different musical tastes, different listening environments, and different ears. Unfortunately, no matter the venue, you're always going to have "ball busters" trying to make everyone else as miserable as they are. Whether or not you supply their fuel is up to you.
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