Why did you choose the components and speakers that are in your system?
I have an opportunity to build another system and I'm looking to mix up the sound I seek and it occurred to me to ask the 'goners! So..... why did you choose the components in your current system? In other words- what was important to you when building it?
Good speakers. I like small planars and ribbons. I use VMPS RMx Elixirs and RM30s. 20+ year now. Ribbons in general sense the 70s Strathearns.. I never looked back.. I use round speakers for BASS that's it...
I meet in the middle. I like SOME (not all) Mcintosh gear and Cary power amps. It is a mix and match world for me.. I just threw Decware in the mix and have used Thoren for 45 years With SME tonearms for about the same amount of time.. Started using Jelcos about 10 years ago.
I started using class D about 6 years ago.. Along with valves. I stated using a DSP BASS system 6 or so years ago. GRs Servo bass system 4 years ago.. An ongoing ordeal for sure. COOLER running is good..
From your post it seems that you are not a newbie, so you more than likely have a good idea what you like and what you want. It may be a huge multi amp, horizontally bi-amped monster of a system or it may be a simple flea powered SET system; I think in all cases you it would be beneficial to have the complete system in your minds eye as you start. Nothing stops you from tweaking along the way.
I had Apogee Duetta IIs for years, loved the planar/ribbon sound. I had to put them in storage for a while, and one got damaged while moving them back. Long story short, I had a couple of DIY 2.5 way speakers based on Usher drivers I built that I used in the interim. While they sound good, they didn't match the Apogees. Did some speaker evaluations and wound up with Maggie 1.7i, being the closest within budget at the time.
Had a PS Audio 4.5 preamp, blew a channel shortly after hooking it up. My old DB Systems preamp had a bad cap, and I wasn't sure at the time whether I wanted it fixed. So I got an Emotiva XSP-1 Gen 2 preamp as a dealer demo. I figured it was something half decent until I could make a decision on a permanent preamp, and at the price, I could probably get out of it even. It served it's purpose.
A little while after this my Bryston 3B amp blew a channel. Sold it off and bought a PS Audio S300 as an interim amp. Good reviews and they offered to take the non working PS audio preamp on a trade with a generous trade in value.
Somewhere in there, I decided to get a dedicated phono preamp. Thanks to many good reviews and advice gotten here on AG, I picked up a Herron VSPH-2A after talking to Keith. It was more than I wanted to spend at the time, but any misgivings went away when I hooked it up and started listening. Best move I could have made anywhere near the price point, I'm totally convinced of that.
Fast forward to a couple weeks ago, as a lark I put in a bid on a BAT VK-30SE preamp that I thought didn't have a chance of winning. But it did :-). Turns out it was just serviced (same month as the auction) by BAT and came with a brand new factory set of tubes to boot.
A side effect of the new preamp was that I appreciate how good the PS Audio S300 is. I still want to eventually replace it, but I'm not in a rush at this point. It's kept up really nicely with every change I've made in the system, and drives the maggies with authority at any volume level I would even consider for short periods, and does a great job on all types of music. Pretty amazing for a real budget amp.
So, basically, some research, some educated guesses, a lot of listening, and some total luckouts. Good luck with your journey.
I'm with
oldhvymec,
start with the speakers you like and build up to them. I like ESL and Raal ribbons also. AMT's are OK. They all blend together satisfactorlly. They all require juice to perform so tiny amps are out. And cooler is better for me since I do not own a power company or solar.
You have to start with the thing you have least control over which is the room. I choose speakers likely to perform well in my specific room, then an amp capable of driving them very well, and things unfold from there.
I was an electrostatic and ribbon speaker fan for decades and spent most of my time and money trying to make them sound better... first massive power, then flesh out the sound to be more natural. But when I would make a change, one genera of music would sound better at the expense of all the others. Hearing details and bass seemed to be sonic goal. I listen to all sorts of music..
Then I got season tickets to the symphony about ten years ago. Completely unconsciously I radically changed directions and out of the blue (consciously out of the blue, subconsciously on purpose) bought some dynamic speakers (Sonus Faber Cremona) as a test set. I had heard these speakers while helping a friend pick out some audio equipment years earlier... I was struck by what I thought unique sound... not positively of negatively. Within a couple weeks I ordered some new ones of higher caliber. Then swapped equipment all to Tubed Audio Research Equipment. What happened was that with each upgrade my system got closer to real music instead of highlighting details or slam and each time all genera sounded better, not just one! My system got more and more musical... the details were still there but not highlighted so you would have to listen to the system and not the music. Now I am captivated by the music and not the system. You can see my system by clicking on my ID.
. In retrospect what happened was I found an empirical ruler, the live acoustic symphony... instead of the current album I liked. In the past I would find test albums for reviewing possible new components for which I liked the sound. Through system component selection I would try to increase my enjoyment these CDs and to improving the obvious traits of the system (details, slam, low noise). But having the symphony as a standard, it turned me toward more musical... I can’t even begin to tell you how important a change this was. Suddenly not listening to the venue but becoming fully emotionally engaged by the music. I enjoyed the journey but if I could do it again I would have focused on lower powered, tube based systems with dynamic speakers from the beginning and had much more musical systems while getting to where I am today.
You have to experience the kind of music you listen to in many good live venues often over time for the ultimate reference for how things should sound. Pleasing sound is different and much easier. It’s all a matter of what your goals are.
I will echo what most here have said, start with the speakers. Do a lot of listening to both different styles of speakers and then different brands. @mapman made a great point about choosing speakers that best match your room. In my experience that is mostly related to room size. You can still stick with the style or designer you like but make sure they are large enough to fill a big room or small enough to not overpower a smaller room. I am a proponent of multiple subs (and not your main speakers) to control the very low bass (i.e., below about 40 or 50 Hz). Once you have your speakers selected, make sure you have enough power to control them. One last thing is to consider how you wish to interact with the system. I wanted mine as simple as possible. All my components remain powered on all the time, and I do not use physical media. If I want to hear music, I simply pick up my iPad, select what I want to hear, and press volume on a remote control. Others are fine with systems that require more tinkering around, i.e., tubes, warm up, and/or physical media.
Don’t overlook dispersion characteristics when choosing speakers for a room. Also consider how far away from speakers you will typically be listening from.
I wanted components and speakers that would play every kind and type of music and do it well especially the difficult music to play which is a challenge that took me about twenty years to achieve but was worth the time and effort.
1. Research, research, research. If you have a local high-end audio retailer, check them out. Most are very helpful. There is no substitute to listening to equipment you may buy. Do a lot of A-B testing. Forgive the obvious, but bookmark and organize your folders in your browser so you’ll have articles and YouTubes you found for a later time. 2. Take your time. Resist impulse buying. Have fun learning. It’s a project, not a purchase. It’s more than a hobby and one you should love. 3. Build a playlist of songs on your phone or streaming service you want to sample / listen to when you have opportunity. If possible, place on a thumb drive and keep with you when shopping. It’s not perfect but it is a way to test songs you want to hear. 4. Set a budget. I began flirting with audio about 4 years ago but go serious a little over year ago. All my initial ideas on what I was going to buy were abandoned as I learned more. For. e.g., I was going with a budget that I ended up almost tripling! Likewise, I was focused bookshelf size speakers but ended up with two different sets of towers (after A-B testing several sets). I had no intention of buying a CD player but that’s some of what I learned. 5. Measure your room / space. 6. I’m a reader, and an audiophile friend recommended https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00U58R0Q4/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 The Complete Guide to High-End Audio Fifth Edition, Fifth edition, Kindle Edition, Robert Harley. Many others available, but this is very good. 7. Befriend audiophiles. (Take the know-it-all folks with a grain of salt. Unfortunately, you’ll encounter some rather arrogant / unpleasant folks in retails stores and especially in forums Just my 2 cents.) Like anything you purchase, you are the one who takes it home and listens and enjoys it, not some other person. 8. Decide on your music source(s). Will you primarily use Vinyl, CDs., streaming, DSD... Do you plan to store music locally on a NAS? (If you buy music files, you may want to look into ROON, et.al. at some point.) As much as I love vinyl, I chose not to go that direction. The thought of rebuilding the massive collection I once had was would require time, lots of money, space to store, and I chose not to budget for albums much less turntable I'd want. Turntables and accessories are serious business. So I "settled" on streaming services (I already had Spotify but tried qobuz and finally settled on TIDAL. MQA is a hairy topic with lots of emotions and opinions but I like much of what I hear in both my headphone system and main stereo. And their playlists, like all streaming services, has a decent variety and continues to grow. The TIDAL’s and BlueOS apps are pretty much a mess. Be patient. One nice thing w/ streaming is you can cross platform to all your devices (multi room / zone at home if you want) and depending on your car, you might be pleased with the results. I was amazed how good TIDAL sounds in my SUV. 9. I had 100’s of CDs so eventually purchased a high end CD transport. It was not a big ticket item and easy to connect and use. 10. I chose to go XLR balanced connections (amp to streamer to CD...) Lots of debate but in the end, I wanted balanced connections and I am very pleased. That limits your choice of amps, dacs, that otherwise might only be RCA, spfid, and others. 11. Find a few YouTube gurus. For e.g., John Darko, Currawong, Zeos [all things headphones], Currawong, Steve Guttenberg (The
Audiophiliac, not the actor), PS Audio, Hans Beekhuyzen (one of my fav but I have to listen to his episodes more than once on a particular topic. That said, Hans was instrumental in my choice of the DAC/streamer I bought). 12. Choose where you want to spend most of your money. The old saw was to suggest something like 60/40 on speakers / amp or vice versa. Then decide what you want to tweak as you go along. .For e.g., I studied speaker placement, room correction, cables and interconnects endlessly, racks, isolation, cabinets, "to raise speaker wire off the floor or not?" rabbit holes... I started with room treatment since I have high ceilings, hardwood floors, glass French doors, two large windows, and a trayed ceiling. That meant acoustic panels, rugs, window treatments, but all in a slow process. My big surprise was getting into headphones. I had not intended to but eventually built a headphone system with 2 different AMPS (1 linear, 1 tube), a DAC, and several open back headphones and IEMs. 13. One thing I had to remind myself when I was deep in the weeds was to STOP and have fun! Stop, sit, rest, and actively listen. A lot. As Hans ends his YouTubes, "and whatever you do, enjoy the music"! Good luck! .
I looked through the preview and one aspect that caught my attention was "the specification sheet - sometimes at the expense of actual sound quality". "THD ... widely used by uneducated consumers as a measure of amplifier quality".
I've often raised that point on clinical review sites and always get hammered with clean path comments.
There is no doubt those tests can be useful but what goes on below audible levels is purely academic and in most cases irrelevant.
Even a pink panther missing a head doesn't indicate much and it should still be considered.
Through the years I have owned different levels of audio equipment. At this point I’m running a McIntosh c53 preamp, McIntosh mc452 power amp and KEF Blades. While all of this is great and it sounds fantastic, the one thing that I paid a lot of attention to is room treatment. Something I don’t see discussed a lot and can have a profound effect on any system at any price point! The variables here are endless. So for me, the starting point is your listening environment and go from there.
I started my journey into high end with 3.6 Maggie’s. They still remain the core of my system. I went through a number of amps before finding McIntosh MC501 mono blocks. Maggie’s thrive on current and these amps made them very revealing. Along the way I decided a tube preamp would add to the synergy and after that, I quit snapping out gear as I knew my ears were happy!
I've played and listened to all kinds of music in my day, and I was lucky enough to live in a locale (Southern California) that had enough retail stereo outlets to allow me to audition whole rafts of hi-end components. Eventually, I was able to assemble a system that could satisfy both my ears and my pocketbook.
1. Budget, including relative percentage of budget to to allot per component 2. Choosing the fewest possible components: turntable, mm cartridge (to avoid needing a pre-pre amp for a mc cartridge), CD/SACD player, integrated amp that included a good DAC, speakers, and power conditioner in my case. Fewer components, means fewer expensive wires impinging on component budget. 3. Getting recommendations on components in price range here on site, then researching, and auditioning, components, 4 Getting recommendations on cables, wiring and the like, and what wiring use to demo their components at shows, from manufacturers of components purchased. 5. Buying only new components from reputable manufacturers with a track record and longevity in the business. and from dealers who have been around a while too. Find out where each component is made, and completely avoid components manufactured in China due to endemic quality control issues there. Manufacturers who hide that their products are made in China are suspect. 6, Researching designing and installing shelving for components, and needed isolation accessories like Isoacoustic feet. 7. Ending up with a clean, uncolored, detailed and revealing sound within budget.
"I have an opportunity to build another system and I'm looking to mix up the sound I seek"
If you haven't heard the sound of speakers other than "typical box speakers" e.g. maggies, electrostatics, omnidirectionals, open baffles. you might listen to at least some of them.
40+ years ago I gave up Rogers LS3/5As for Dahlquist dq 10 (open baffle) and still prefer other than "typical box speaker sound".. A pair of spatial audio M3 triads just arrived. LSA bookshelf I have is wide dispersion and have a similar wide soundstage/sound.
Get rid of those crappy transparent speaker cables those resistor networks screw up everything if you really want to try a good speaker wire that just lets everything good or bad through switch to OCC single crystal wire it has been proven now for 40 years to be the best wire for audio.
Technics 1200G: I really, truly wanted a nice belt drive. You know, thick and heavy platter, external power supply, no dust cover...something that just screams "I am an audiophile!". I was coming from an aging but perfectly functioning Technics SL1200-MK5...I wanted something different...kooler. Once again, I chickened out...I’m ashamed. But damn it sounds great! Best mistake I ever made! I still look at nice belt drives though. What’s nice is the detachable headshell...I have wood, magnesium and aluminum ones, Makes it fun. And the gold plated interface between tonearm and headshell is very legit...not an afterthought. The whole thing is bulletproof.
Don Sachs Model 2 Preamp: Way too many people saying it blew away something that costs way more. He made mine with the old, first-gen full wood casing but has the full wave rectifier and all the new improvements. Like the 1200G, it is a legitimate end game unit.
Salk Songtowers: Once the best part of my system...it’s now on the weaker side. It’s not super technical or precise...but it doesn’t do anything really bad either. It sounds good no matter where it’s placed. It’s the most forgiving speaker I’ve ever owned. It’s also the oldest component. The search is on for a replacement.
Primaluna EVO 400 I ordered a Don Sachs Kootenay. Waited forever for it and it arrived damaged and died shortly after. I sent it back to be repaired but asked for my money back because Don was being a bit of a jerk about the whole affair. Yikes, it sounded great. The Primaluna Evo 400 is close but not quite as detailed as the Kootenay. But it’s WAY more fun to play with tube rolling and it’s close enough. It also has a meatier sound than the Kootenay. Yes, I made another mistake...but I not worrying about it too much.
Project Phono Box RS I was too cheap to buy the battery assisted power supply for $700. The 18v wall wart it came with produced an awful hum that I could not fix. Luckily someone on eBay makes a super quiet 18v outboard power supply with a grounded 3 prong receptacle...made specifically for the Phono Box RS for under $180.
I may not have super high end stuff. But I have a 6th sense about how to treat a room...and that goes a long way. The room is the other half of the equation...literally.
Lucky at a garage sale. Found a marantz 2285 and JBL L100s playing at a sale. Asked if they were for sale and he said no. I gave him my card and said "if you change your ming, call me" Well almost 2 years later he called. Got all of it for $350
I buy/bought based on quality of sound, timbre, tone, warmth, no fatigue, and of course, looks! If I’m going to be parked in front of my hifi for years and years to come, It must also look aesthetically pleasing. My turntable for instance is gorgeous in walnut with its carbon fiber arm. The tannoys have a beautiful real walnut finish and an almost antique looking etched placard with the tannoy logo and high frequency control panel. My sugden integrated is the epitome of simplicity. Just a power button, volume control, and an input selector. My rack is not a rack, it’s a piece of furniture purposed for my hifi and looks great.
Start with speakers for clarity, sound stage, timbre; add sub for bass/punch; clean source very important; powerful clean amp; critically - room correction
I listened to many speakers - selected Linn 20 years ago also considering the benefits of active amplification which then leads to Linn amps/Aktiv configuration. Great Linn speakers like the Katans, and the amps can be found used at reasonable prices
SVS SB3000 sub hard to beat
MiniDSP SHD as pre-amp with built-in streaming and DIRAC is incredible bargain for the sound quality
For less than 5000, the above system is as good as any I have ever heard!
I personally like efficient speakers. I bought Crites because they were 1/3 the cost of other choices. I was used to horn sound. I also wanted a class A amp. Several small wattage amps available at reasonable pricing.
You state that you have an opportunity to build another system. Is this to replace one that you have been using? Is it a secondary system in a different location?
In my current system, the TT was the inspiration for upgrading the whole thing. After looking for many years for a cherry rebuilt Garrard 301, I found a beautiful one built by Woodsong Audio. Being of very high quality, I upped my entire system to match. That was a unique case. Mostly, speakers are the best component in which to base a system. Match a proper amp, preamp (or integrated), cables, power, vibration control and source.
I focused on the system and the room and specifically how I wanted to use it.
When I started to build my system I decided on a 2 channel stereo system in the living room in order to encourage conversation - no TV.
And then I created a budget and based on my personal experience and taste decided in building using a NAD integrated receiver and chose speakers that I felt produced the best sound (Sonus faber was selected over B&W and PSB).
The system was analogy (turntable, tuner and tapedeck), I added a DAC/streamer.
When I upgraded - I started with a separate pre-amp to improve the DAC and phono stage. Then I upgraded the amp and then improved the sources and the speakers.
In retrospect the best thing I did was establish a budget and identify my goals and then enjoy the system.
If I was given an opportunity to start over from scratch again. I'd build off my current speakers (Sonus faber Olympica Nova V) and turntable (Rega P8) and evaluate amplification, phono stage and DAC. I currently have McIntosh amps and Moon by Simaudio DAC/Streamer and I'd add Audio Research into the audition mix.
The lesson I learned is the value of cables. And the value of cables is dependent on the system and I noticed significant improvements in details and clarity when upgrading from what I would consider value priced items to 'specialized products' where the product design and production are core competencies of the company. Some may say its snake oil - I heard and liked the differences and would encourage experimenting before dismissing the idea.
IMO, Other than DIY, highest was speakers (pairs of Quad 2905's); lowest was cables. Still haven't spent enough to justify cables better than those based on Canare Starquad microphone cable. Maybe after the second Koetsu I'll take another look ... YMMV
Can you setup Open Baffle speakers in your listening area? They need to be 5-6 feet into a room. Conventional speakers 2-3 Feet.
If your current speakers have 6-8" woofers and have the room size required you might get the Spatial 15" open baffle speakers and really appreciate the difference.
Furman 20 PFI - protection + clean power without loss of dynamics Airport Express - to transfer data only (computer not important) Benchmark DAC3 HGC - to make 280ps of AE jitter inaudible. Benchmark AHB2 - very clean and very dynamic. Hyperion HPS-938 - Giant killer speakers.
Accurate speakers provable by measurements instead of cognitive bias. Electronics that are adaptable to automation and streaming, and under the threshold of audible distortion. Speakers that compliment the rooms they are used in. For example, I need unobtrusive speakers in the living room, but not in the media room. Flat down to 31Hz (5-string electric bass). Price.
I needed a very small apartment system for music that sounded good regardless of placement and volume. I was fortunate enough to buy Aerial 5T and Parasound Hint 6 used, and i connected my old Marantz CD-67se and its perfect for me. I put the Aerials on good stands away from a wall just to maximize the sound. Rich and smooth sound with a bit of warmth that sound good at low volumes but really open up at louder volumes (when my neighbors are away).
When I bought a pair of Magnepan's A LOT of gear needed to be changed/upgraded. I am, however VERY happy and my system has never sounded better and my musical enjoyment has never been higher or more involved.For some reason the Maggies make me want to consistently tweek and upgrade. Fuses to Schumann generators. I never went to these lengths before owning Magnepan's???? Every little increase in performance the speakers let you hear it. They are goose bump creatorsIt's BS that they can't produce bas btw. I ditched my sub after I upgraded my amp....
My gear like my music have to excite me; it has to make me happy. Perception is everything. I have to believe in it and feel that I’m lucky for owning it. My system makes me happy even when it’s powered off; even when I’m away and thinking about it. I think tonearms are works of art, NAB hub adapters are eye candy, and big heavy tube amps are sexy. I love gear. As for sound I grew up and live in downtown Nashville listening to loud live music through Fender guitar amps and PA’s. You don’t just hear the music, you feel it, you experience it. These are all things that influence how I choose my components and speakers.
I got really great deal for them for the Main basement system. Aerial 10t are true performance champions for $1000 price tag paid on tag sale for secondary system I got great deal on BW DM604 $100 at another tag sale.
seek and it occurred to me to ask the 'goners! So..... why did you choose the components in your current system?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Please research the top 2 Point Source speaker labs. Voxativ and AER. Before you decide to buy any speaker. There are hundreds of used speakers on the market, but do consider new Point Source. based on my 40 yrs as audiophile. For amps go tube Any one will do just fine. But my prefered is Cayin and Jadis. Source, tube cd player, Or tube DAC, Prima Luna or Shanling. I am using a Shanling as the Drive and a Jadis DAC, bought used, these are quite expensive new. Hope that helps ya.
-After a lifetime of working to build a two-channel system
that I truly love, the ‘whys’ vary only a bit. Pretty much every single
monetary audio decision was based on ‘What difference can I hear and is it worth
the dollars?’ That goes for every single audio item; I’ve no need for high end audio
jewelry if I can’t hear it (and I’ve home-tested a dozen pre-amps I could ‘hear’
before buying one).
-The item has to perform or the money always goes to another piece
in the audio chain that offers better value. That does not excuse my occasional
poor decision, the intent remained the same. Everything below is my opinion
only. So, preface all statements with ‘IMHO’.
-Speakers are the single most important component. Find (and
it can take years) the sound you truly enjoy and then buy the size of speaker
that mfr. makes that best fits your music room. I am a huge advocate of buying
used for value; in the high end speaker market folks take care of their stuff
(I could never have bought mine otherwise).
Long-term speaker listenability: Does the sound make me want to turn the
volume up or down? And: How long can I
sit and enjoy the speakers? It needs to be hours and hours. I have had amp/speaker
combos that were hot-to-trot for fifteen minutes, and then, ouch. And a warm,
non-detailed speaker stinks; it’s boring. I want resolution and imaging, treble
clarity/sweetness, full timbre and body with bass.
-After speakers (and close) is acoustical room management. For
me, in a beautiful living/listening room, (cuss all you want) that is the
DSPeaker Anti-Mode 2.0 (yes, better ones, but $). It very effectively fixes bass
nodes in the room, and makes the speaker sound much better afterwards. With DSP
disengaged, even with my very best speaker positioning in the listening room,
the openness and clarity get muddied up a bit by excessive bass nodes both in
the room and some by speaker design, ugh.
-After those two items, I’d want quality amplification and
source componentry but would always spend to realize the most audible bang for
your dollar. I’d say good power amplification/pre-amplifier (or good
integrated) then CD and/or digital front end. Some might advocate spending $9k
upfront and $3k on loudspeakers. On an A/B pure blind test I’d say I can
sonically blow that system away every time, and with going $4k on up front gear
and $8k on speakers. My two cents, like I said. It’s all tons of fun.
-My stuff: Oppo
BDP-105 (CDs and small memory/library), Rega Planar 3, Denon cassette, Denon
tuner, W4S STI-1000 integrated, with DSPeaker in tape loop, Raidho D2, SVS
SB-3000(1) and SVS SB-2000(2). For me, it’s the closest so far…
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