HiFi means High Fidelity. Largely it’s in your mind and relative. When someone attaches a label to a piece of gear/kit, that is what it is in their mind (they may have never heard the audio component before). For some who go to audio shows and have heard hundreds of speakers.. they may have a better idea of HiFi vs MidFi. But if they say Magnepan 20.7 speakers don’t qualify as HiFi but you have a pair in your living space and think they sound spectacular... that is High Fidelity to you.
To put it another way...
"We see what is in back of our eyes, not what is in front of them".
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Good question.
I am sure, you will receive various opinions.
I think Klipsch is a well regarded Hi-Fi brand.
I think, the term "Hi-Fi" is often misused. "Hi-Fi" being marginalized into "Mid-Fi" is just snob BS.
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Both great speakers , however I don't think you could pick two speakers that are more different.
I don't get hung up on what's HiFi , LoFi.... that's all someone else's opinion.
I haven't heard a Magnepan in a long time. I would imagine the 20.7 gives state of the art sound, or at least a taste of it. I have heard Cornwall and other big Klipsch many times and that's the sound I lean toward...
The smartest thing you can do when researching speakers is go out and listen to them. Especially at those,price points, but any speaker really. I just bought a pair of speakers sight unseen but they have a demo period.
There's no wrong or right, only what your ears and brain tells you. I have been to shows with treated rooms containing $$$$ gear that didn't wow me. I have heard modest systems that made me do a double take.
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For many people who fancy themselves audiophiles, it is difficult to consider any mass market brand anything more than mid-fi. When something becomes widely available and popular, it is no longer "exclusive" and "exclusive" is one of the primary requisites for a snob. One sees this repeated in any other area of life -- fashion, cars, sports equipment, jewelry, food, and so on.
It's human nature -- if we are avid about a subject, we want to be above the hoi polloi.
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The product has to stand out from the pack and appear special somehow in order to be considered hifi by many in these parts. Many truly hifi products around these days that many purchase are not of great interest to audiophiles. Lots of people have those things so they may be hifi just not hi end. See the difference?
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Klipsch Heritage stuff is the original high-end Hifi. Audiophiles were using Klipsch before stereo was even a thing. My grandfather bought a single Klipschorn in the early 50's to use with his McIntosh tube system and then later had to buy another for stereo when that happened. They are loud AF and will blow you away for Jazz and Rock. They can play more cleanly at high levels than any overpriced small audiophile minimonitors, including those that I own and love. If you like to listen loud, you will be super-happy with the Klipsch Cornwalls.
A lot of audiophiles have found the horns to be a little harsh and believe the phase coherency not as good for presenting a 3D soundstage. You can improve this by revising the crossovers and making felt diffraction pads for them.
Magnepan MG20.7s are some serious, Class A recommended stuff. When you are up to that level of performance, its just like buying "the best car in the world," whatever that means. I had a Rolls-Royce and a convertible Hummer a while back. Which was best? The Hummer was great for flying through the air and landing softly, driving over trees and running up and down the local river. The Rolls was quiet and comfortable. Neither were as reliable and easy to own as a Lexus. None of those can accelerate as fast as a Dodge Demon, and none of the above can corner like a Porsche... but my favorite car of all time is an old Land Rover.
The Magnepan MG20.7s can create a wall of sound that can hit you with slam and accuracy, delicate details, and if you take the time to treat your room for acoustics and fiddle with them enough, they can create a soundstage to wrap all the way around your head. Granted, Wilsons can image better than that, and the original Quad ESLs will make midrange and treble better than any speaker ever made... but the Quads can only handle around a 50 watt amp and are very inefficient and easy to fry, have no low-end bass, and a sweetspot smaller than the average human head.
So I recommend listening to a lot of stuff. None will be perfect. They are all a sort of compromise if we are honest. Anyone who says an MG20 is mid-fi is a baseless dick-measuring contestant.
I would put both the MG20.7s AND the new Cornwalls up there in the "best at _____" category, but they are great at two very different things. If you like them, buy them and just enjoy them and don't worry about online trolls with low self esteem bashing your taste.
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For many people who fancy themselves audiophiles, it is difficult to consider any mass market brand anything more than mid-fi. When something becomes widely available and popular, it is no longer "exclusive" and "exclusive" is one of the primary requisites for a snob. One sees this repeated in any other area of life -- fashion, cars, sports equipment, jewelry, food, and so on.
It's human nature -- if we are avid about a subject, we want to be above the hoi polloi.
/\ /\
What he said.
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No product is mid-fi or hi-fi by virtue of his price tag alone for me...
High fidelity is refering to a recording translated in a determine acoustical way by some specific acoustic content and properties in a room , the components are only tool serving acoustic needs.. ...The components price tags means nothing alone ...
Soundfield is not created by price tag...
But once said all component design are not equal for sure and come with a price tag which is in a loose way and non linearly related to their design quality / potential S.Q. ...
What plague audiophile world is ignorance of acoustic... And faith in price tag of any "new" design for a so called upgrade...
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Speakers become hi-fi speakers when they, heh-heh, speak to you.
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I’m not sure I’ve ever heard the term "mid fi" used without a being spoken in a deprecating tone of voice, as a means of asserting alleged "superiority".
Some assert it’s all about price -- that a component isn’t hi fi unless its price tag = X dollars or above.
Seems to me, hi fi is more about passion for connecting with music and willingness to experiment and learn how this may be accomplished, rather than price tag. Anyone with the requisite cash can fill a room with expensive gear. That, in and of itself, means little.
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I've seen some folks on here refer to Emotiva as mid-fi but I don't think that's true at all. Honestly, I don't think there's a price line that separates HiFi from mid-fi. IMO, I would probably consider something like a mass produced stereo system from someplace like Best Buy to be mid-fi, but I could be wrong. Is a Crosley TT mid-fi??
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Is HIFI being confused with High End? HIFi speakers vs HIgh End? Just a thought. High Fidelity speakers?
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If you are considering Cornwalls & Maggie’s, then something is amiss. Cornwalls will sound super hi end if you run a low powered SET amp on it & Maggies like lots of power. Forget about all the other stuff about other peoples opinions on what is HiFi or MidFi, that is just all nonsense labels by insecure people, IMHO. If you like the speakers, that’s all that matters.
More importantly, what amp are you using?
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A guy once told me that if he owned it, it was HiFi.
If he felt the need to later sell it, it was because it had become MIDFI.
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I bought what i tought was mid-Fi but it become High-FI after acoustic application of basics...
😊
A guy once told me that if he owned it, it was HiFi.
If he felt the need to later sell it, it was because it had become MIDFI.
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@dean_palmer
"why are they not considered Hi-Fi?"
Err... I think they would be by 99.99% of people if they heard them.
Since the vast majority of the public regard Bose as being Hi-Fi, to all intents and purposes, they must be.
I think it's only us audiophiles that worry and obsess about the minutiae of sound reproduction.
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HiFi is when I have buyers remorse the next day.
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Hi-Fi is when i know that even a "better" upgrade will made me remorseful because almost useless...
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If you can afford them, they are mid-fi. If you can only see them in the rags they are hi-fi.
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If you can afford them, they are mid-fi. If you can only see them in the rags they are hi-fi.
I respect you a lot. But this does not make any sense. Plenty of products in “the rags” at all price ranges / tiers. I sincerely hope we are all adults here and can figure out what we can afford or not. As I always said, pay the utilities bills first before you buy any audio equipment 🤷♂️
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The consumer determines this. Some may think my speakers are mid fi and others not. Who really cares, if they sound good to you that is all that matter screw everyone else.
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If I was to try and put a definition on low-fi vs mid-fi vs hi-fi I'd probably start with something like the following:
low-fi: audio products focused on price point and features over sound quality. These types of products might top out as the mid range offerings at a place like Best Buy. Even people that don't care about audio own these.
mid-fi: audio products where sound quality is a more significant factor while still being widely available. These types of products might start as the top end products at places like Best Buy and extent into the more entry level products at hifi vendors like Music Direct. People that either care about audio or just have enough money to get upsold tend to own these.
hi-fi: audio products where sound quality is the most significant factor and availability is limited. Only people that are actively seeking quality audio tend to own these.
There's going to be a lot of grey areas of course and it's all relative.
In my mind, Klipsch Cornwall and Magnepan are clearly both HiFi speakers.
Klipsh that you find at Best Buy are LowFi or MidFi and sometimes people unfairly judge a brand based on its most entry level products.
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@bluorion Wrote:
I've seen some folks on here refer to Emotiva as mid-fi but I don't think that's true at all. Honestly, I don't think there's a price line that separates HiFi from mid-fi. IMO,
I agree!
Mike
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My point was to take a tongue-in-cheek perspective on the fact that price plays an overly large perspective on what we consider hi-fi or not, and also that the rags focus (IMHO) far too much on gear that is too expensive for the value.
If you read me at all here on A’gon you’ll know how funny I really am. 🤣 I’ve also been accused of being a literary arsonist here, but those arguments never made any sense to me. 🤷♀️
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I don’t know and I don’t think it should be based on price. I’d suggest it’s on performance and ultimately that is likely best for the customer/ buyer to define.
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You are right and i think that...
The acoustic relation between speakers and room is the main factor in audio experience... The price tag of a dac or of an amplifier is not the main factor... Except for very bad dac and amplifier..
The other exception is comparing cheap speakers to very costly one...
I don’t know and I don’t think it should be based on price. I’d suggest it’s on performance and ultimately that is likely best for the customer/ buyer to define.
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When do we reach Hi-Fi status for speakers???
I think it may be easier to quantify “high-end” by price vs high-fidelity, which may be varied by subjective experiences. Experiencing a Decware Zen Triode mated with some single-driver Omegas may not be considered high-end at roughly under $5k total, but for some, would definitely be considered high-fidelity.
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Keep in mind, the term "Mid-Fi" was invented by gear salesmen to yep, up sale customers on more expensive gear. There is no "Mid-Fi".
It's all "Fi", some is better than others, some worse. It's up to you and your own personal preferences to decide what trips your trigger but note others might think you are crazy if you sit around listening to a strident sounding BRIGHT speaker and go on and on about hearing the singer take breathes between each phrase or that you can hear that someone in the studio farted.
Is FM radio with its limited dynamic range and frequency response only 50Hz to maybe 15Khz "Hi-Fi"? Some would say yes, others no. See, it is arbitrary.
If you have a great sounding balanced system with great imaging yet it can't reproduce 95dB of dynamic range is it still "Hi-Fi"?
This is a hobby, not an exclusive golf club. People at all price points can participate in enjoying the music. People acting like snobs is one reason this hobby is dying, particularly salesmen who won't demo gear to newbies if they don't come in driving a $100K car.
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Very good obervation and common sense post...
Thanks very much...
Keep in mind, the term "Mid-Fi" was invented by gear salesmen to yep, up sale customers on more expensive gear. There is no "Mid-Fi".
It’s all "Fi", some is better than others, some worse. It’s up to you and your own personal preferences to decide what trips your trigger but note others might think you are crazy if you sit around listening to a strident sounding BRIGHT speaker and go on and on about hearing the singer take breathes between each phrase or that you can hear that someone in the studio farted.
Is FM radio with its limited dynamic range and frequency response only 50Hz to maybe 15Khz "Hi-Fi"? Some would say yes, others no. See, it is arbitrary.
If you have a great sounding balanced system with great imaging yet it can’t reproduce 95dB of dynamic range is it still "Hi-Fi"?
This is a hobby, not an exclusive golf club. People at all price points can participate in enjoying the music. People acting like snobs is one reason this hobby is dying, particularly salesmen who won’t demo gear to newbies if they don’t come in driving a $100K car.
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When they sound great to you, in your system, to your ears, in your home.
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All my gear is MidFi 🙂
Speakers -
Original LSRs
B&W 607 S2
Triangle Bro2
Tannoy DC4T
Various MidFi stuff for amps and front ends.
I have everything setup (what I like to think is) very well and very enjoyable I might add.
Saying it’s all MidFi is freeing for me in a way 😁
YMMV
Doug
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Oh yeah
I forgot - Martin Logan Motion 15i, MidFi all the way!
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I generally consider low-fi under 1K, mid-fi 1 to 5K and hi-fi over 5K in speakers, perhaps half of that in component prices.
Of course you can get hifi sound from speakers for 3K and midfi sound from speakers for 7K. It depends on about 25 things.
Primarily your ears :)
Overall, low-fi is still a "fi" better than cheap computer speakers, JBL bluetooth stuff, or other sound producing monsters.
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Being into audio 40 years and owning a Audio store by far the largest injustice to Audiophiles is theLoudspeakers crossover parts , most people don’t realize
on a $10k speaker for example only $2500 goes-into the speakers per pr including
packaging the rest R&D over head and markup
since I have modded every speaker I have owned maggi have a cheap Xover
cement resistors horrible capacitors and inductors , , Klipsch notmuch better
sad but true . I have had help with Maggie todo rights external Xover
Klipsch has more room and Chinese Xover yellow caps and cement resistors
I use top notch path audio resistors , but mills are verygood or several others,many decent Name brand capacitors out there mid quality like. Clarity ,or Mundorf Evo which I see in $20k speakers ,which imo should’ve betteras well as inductors likeJantzen , name brand connectors also but manygo cheapgoldover brass
which is bright, purecopper Cardas, or WBT next gen, or Furutech ,or ETI are far better . Being in the retail business even in electronics the same 💩 crap applies
not all but most the 4-1 ratio $$ cost in build to markup,
with audio cables even more so.
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I think most Klipsch and the MG 20.7/30.7 speakers are not that good. There is no low end in any of these speakers and the 30.7’s sounded so bad when we heard them on their intro tour.
I did have a friend that owned a pair of Klipschorn’s around 40 years ago and they sounded pretty good for their time, I think the wall helped in the lower end. I have heard knockoffs of these types of Klipsch speakers at audio shows and they were decent.
To get the more exotic materials for speakers, it’s going to cost you money. Your more cheaper speakers have drivers and cabinets made from cheaper materials. You will not get Porsche quality from a Corolla, price does matter for the better pieces
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Some of us stumble upon a "hi-fi" set of speakers through good old trial and error. No way in heck is anyone capable of hearing everything out there unless you’re a reviewer, work in sales, and visit many audio shows.
I’m one of the ones who stumbled upon a great speaker which I paired with a great integrated and now I’ve lost all motivation to look for something else. It will just click one day. Like I said, you’ll know it when you hear it.
Too many blame it on the room. A really good speaker will show itself despite the room. Fine tune things after if that’s your thing.
All the best,
Nonoise
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@audioman58 This is why I went with single driver speakers. For the record, I purchased Klipsch RP600M speakers prior. I hated them. Then I stumbled upon GR Research's teardown of the Klipsch RP600M. And yeah, the crossover couldn't be worse. The crossover actively scooped up the midrange with poor engineering design. So I went into the opposite direction towards single drivers without crossovers. And I'm convinced! For moderate/low volumes in a flat single driver speakers are perfect. Most of the music is in the midrange anyways...
Perhaps I am closer to "Hi-Fi" under $2k that way because I don't use an awful crossover? I am using EMS LB5 drivers FYI.
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The Heritage line of speakers is a fantastic speaker to mod to your tastes. They can easily be customized for any situation and that makes them hi-fi to me.
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If using a single driver, coaxial ,or even monitor Svs has some excellent powered subwoofers with apps to adjust the Bass from your seat, you can blend the low bass with starting at $499
i have found this to help many speakers to fill in that low midBass,lower Bass range.
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It's mid-fi if you want to upgrade it.
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"I generally consider low-fi under 1K, mid-fi 1 to 5K and hi-fi over 5K in speakers, perhaps half of that in component prices."
My, my, my...
My favorite speakers (vintage Elac S517) cost -$295.
Minus because I purchased 2 pairs for $5 and sold 1 pair for $300.
DeKay
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LowFi, MidFi, and HiFi. It’s just ridiculous terminology to use as a form of price tag gate-keeping. For example, my Klipsch speakers are considered LowFi by some folks because they aren’t made from exotic materials and the brand is too common. I’ve also been told my McIntosh components are the equivalent of Harley Davidson motorcycles. All branding and no substance.
Ignore the price tag gate-keeping and focus on what sounds good to you in your place.
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Any speaker that needs modified to sound good right out of the box should be considered midfi at best.
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I say this again,
"You see what is behind your eyes, not what is in front of them". You are going to get 1 million answers and each one is correct in that person's mind. The minds eye.
The same holds true for ears and hearing...
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If I can afford it, it must be mid-fi.
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They’re hifi when they sound the way you want and you can listen for hours! I have the Forte III and while not the most expensive speakers I own, definitely hifi.
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