When are speakers considered Hi-Fi and not Mid-Fi???

@kokakolia , I, for one, won’t be buying anything from some guy tinkering with a piece in his garage (no-name Joe companies) with non-existent service in a couple of years. I would put it in the same category as Chifi though Chifi, at the least, is very affordably priced unlike the former. I am sure there are guys who buy stuff like that because it makes them feel elusive. I am not in that camp.

Klipsch crap aside, JBL’s higher end Synthesis line or even the HDI series is very good stuff. Yamaha, Marantz, Pioneer (back in the days) make extremely well engineered, great sounding hifi components with extreme bang 4 the buck and future proofed service for years, if anything ever breaks (they rarely ever break). TAD’s line of Pioneer wouldn’t be considered extreme bang 4 the buck, but still is top tier great value for the hardcore hifi enthusiast. TAD has extremely good resale value and you never see it in the used market because guys who have it hang on to it for dear life. I can see why this category of companies are very popular with the guys who don’t have bottomless pockets or otherwise.

It is so true that my two vintage components bought at low price are top product, even compared to nowadays products and one of them is IRREPLEACABLE by anything at any price , and if it is repleacable i dont know by which TOP costlier headphones of today Susvara ? RAAL ? etc ...Because the two basic technology used were never used again his soundfield cannot be replicate by nowadays headphone so good or better they can be on some acoustic factor by their membrane refinement..

Sansui AU 607i alpha was top in 1978 ...not low fi nor mid fi ... TOP HI-FI at an affordable price, a concept which do not exist today because most companies are BIG corporations and are not runned by craftmanship ideals anymore, a concept which was the proposition to offer to the mass the TOP HIGH FI BEST at the lowest possible price with no big compromises as Sansui did Or as AKG did in 1978...And small companies of today with their craftmanship cannot afford the research budget to implement new technologies and new design in their second move at mass market price as in the Sansui alpha or in the AKG K340 specific cases which were not small companies at all in 1978 but not owned by Big corporations with no links to audio ...This era is gone forever...

Buying vintage was the only way to assemble a TOP system at 700 bucks for me.. i did it and with the headphone AKG K340 i stick the BIngo price ! ( my 9 others headphones were a disastrous frustrating experience compared to speakers/ dedicated room, because headphones are very difficult to be designed right acoustically more than speakers )

How do you know you arrived at the end line of high quality with an optimal ratio S.Q. /price , which is passed the minimal diminishing returns treshold ?

It is because upgrading is no more interesting and so easy to do without risk.....And especially because there is no sonic defects factors which is evident and a reason to do such upgrade... When you are completely in love and happy you dont change partners, the idea did not even cross your mind... 😊

But there is a caveat : old products must be repaired if not cleaned at least, there is a cost and a risk...

Not all vintages products are TOP compared to contemporary offers...Only few...

And i did 6 months of research full time to modify my Headphone and improve it to this level where it compete with anything...There exist two negative wwell known reviews of it because the two well known reviewers were unable to understand this new technology and how to use it and called it a mismatch between two drivers...😊... We must learn how to listen... It is not a free gift at all... I learned by tuning my room... Before i did not know anything at all..

Then sorry there is no easy path...

But money-wise in cost, Vintage may be interesting ... And sometimes more than interesting...

The labels High-fi , mid-fi, low-fi, is a mass market creation... Some companies in the past were selling top product at very high cost and in a second move were able to downsize the price at mass market price with compromise that were not too costly in sound quality... This did not exist todays, the Big corporations and small craftmanship small companies are not the pioneers in audio , the not big nor small companies of this golden era which were competing more for sonic qualities and innovations first and last as the means to dominate...

Perhaps there is exceptions today  as Hifiman for headphone ?

Am i wrong ? i dont think so... but this is my correct or uninformed enough opinions.. 😁😊

I have to resist the urge to accumulate cheap vintage gear, it takes a lot of discipline. "Low-fi" is trap. You’re overspending for junk. Good gear doesn’t sell because people don’t know about it.

@deep_333 This where I throw a wrench in your statement. People are going bananas over JBL, Klipsch, Yamaha, Pioneer and Marantz on the new and used market. I see pairs of JBL L26 sell for 300€ and I roll my eyes. I think that there's a huge degree of snobbery in the budget category. On one hand, we have brand recognition with speakers (OMG! Klipsch! JBL!), and SiNAD with amps (class D is the holy grail, apparently...). 

My point is: I saw a local ad for Ruark Swordsman Plus II speakers (90€). It may as well be free. And nobody gives a flying care. If these things had a JBL logo they would sell for 800€ easily. Just toss in an old Arcam amp for 80€ and you're done. Nobody gives a flying care about Arcam, buy them cheap. 

I have to resist the urge to accumulate cheap vintage gear, it takes a lot of discipline. "Low-fi" is trap. You're overspending for junk. Good gear doesn't sell because people don't know about it. 

The classification of speakers as "Hi-Fi"  or "Mid-Fi" can vary depending on different factors and individual perspectives. However, there are a few general characteristics that are often associated with each category.

Hi-Fi speakers typically offer a higher level of sound quality and accuracy compared to Mid-Fi speakers. They are designed to reproduce audio signals as faithfully and accurately as possible, with minimal distortion and coloration. Hi-Fi speakers often utilize advanced technologies and high-quality components to achieve superior performance. They are usually capable of producing a wide frequency range, including both low and high frequencies, with good clarity and detail.

On the other hand, Mid-Fi speakers, as the name suggests, fall in the middle range of fidelity. They generally offer respectable sound quality but may not reach the level of accuracy and refinement found in Hi-Fi speakers. Mid-Fi speakers may have some limitations in reproducing the full frequency range or may exhibit slight coloration of sound.

It's important to note that the line between Hi-Fi and Mid-Fi can be subjective and can vary depending on personal preferences, budget considerations, and the intended use of the speakers. What one person considers Hi-Fi might be seen as Mid-Fi by another. Ultimately, the distinction between Hi-Fi and Mid-Fi is not strictly defined and can differ among individuals and audio enthusiasts.

I always thought when you say something is HIFI you are concentrating on its sound characteristics than the music. Not good. 

I really like @erik_squires definition- "If you can afford them, they are mid-fi.  If you can only see them in the rags they are hi-fi."  It acknowledges the relative nature of classifying gear-  each person needs to define for themselves what they perceive as low or high end.  It also cleverly calls out the frustration of the hobby itself.  The high end will always be just out of reach since its a euphemism for perfection which does not exist.

@thyname 

"But I have to say: whoever says a cheap box store $50 pair of speakers sounds just like a $50,000 pair of speakers, or some cheap headphones for 50 years ago… I want to have what you are smoking."

Since this thread is about midfi or hifi, it would be safe to say that the $50 boombox or bluetooth wonderball falls in the low-fi, shite-fi, etc category.

However and IME, there are many doofus (midfi at best) $50,000+ speakers that are simply "carried" by high-end/pristine sounding electronics. In fact, this has been going on for ages. When some 5k to 10k-ish speakers  get the same privilege of pairing with such high-end/over engineered electronics, the results can be shocking to many.

HIFI-ish and Midfi-ish speakers can be found at almost any price bracket. However, Klipsch heritage speakers have enough design flaws that they can't be considered hifi in comparison to other speakers in similar price brackets.

Bose is MidFi. Everything else is HiFi.

I've been away from Audiogon for a while. Nothing has changed.

Lots of good common sense advice. Lots of people with 'x' many years of experience in complete and bitter disagreement about the exact same things in every post here with other people with 'x' many years of experience.

So why not throw my hat in the ring? I don't have 'x' number of year of experience or golden ears by the way.

First, I think Hi-Fi and Mid-fi are perfectly reasonable terms despite having no real concrete parameters. Yes, they are fluid but they can get us in the ball park.

I have an extremely nice system at home. Inherited it. Love it. I have a very nice but more modest system in another room featuring Aerial Acoustics 6Ts. Love it.

At my cabin I have a used NAD integrated and a pair of vinyl wrapped Polk Audio towers all of which cost under $400 total. I love the way this system sounds. The sound stage is frankly amazing.

This leads me to several conclusions, most of which have already been mentioned:

1. Listen to stuff. If you can't then experiment. Find out what makes you happy.

2. The room matters. My rooms at home are not ideal. There is surely a cost. Not enough to matter much to me but in the case of my cabin the speaker placement is a lucky bit of good fortune as they couldn't go anywhere else. But I am certain that's why the Polks sound so good. Do what you can with the room you have.

3. Don't doubt that you can put together a mid-fi system that you will like unless you  think you are acoustically unpleaseable or simply want to get on the audiophile gear treadmill.

I own the Heresy IV from the Heritage line... definitely hi-fi.  Startling in a good way, engaging, non-fatiguing... captivating and addictive.  In a bigger room, I'd go for the Forte IV or the Cornwalls.  

What mahgister said..."No product is mid-fi or hi-fi by virtue of his price tag alone for me..."

For example, stratospherically priced Bang & Olufsen is not the first thing to come to mind in discussions of hi-fi.

When are speakers considered Hi-Fi and not Mid-Fi???

To audio snobs the answer is, when they exceed a certain price point.  To music lovers they are meaningless terms. 

Here you may have a point...

I try to do it...But perhaps i am not so good at doing it as well as i think...

If i am not clear about something, please ask and say it...i will try my best...

English is not my first language, and i live in quebec city then i never learned it by speaking  but only by reading books with limited vocabulary... ( science and philosophy)

Good night... And thanks for the exhange... I like to discuss...Too much... Perhaps...

Excessive politeness dont replace clarity...

Agreed. Why don’t you just do it?

Excessive politeness dont replace clarity...

Agreed. Why don’t you just do it?

And by the way i never fake politeness...

Right…
 

The shortest way to be understood is saying it clearly ...Not waiting for someone to "click" on past thread posts...

Exemple: " yes mahgister i think you are right about acoustic because i experimented with it" already ...Then i will not go further with my "recommendation" at your dismay if i judge by your sarcasm......

is it not good ?

And beside that, other people read this dialogue and perhaps will be more enlightened by discovering that two people think the same about the importance of acoustic no ?

Excessive politeness dont replace clarity...

And by the way i never fake politeness...

And i dont keep grudges...Because i always say what is in my mind on the spot...

«Politeness is true act even when it is a pretend act, at the exclusion of sarcasm» --Groucho Marx learning Chinese 🤓

My very best to you… i apologize if i could not make that as clear as water.... My very best to you....

Why not simply accept acoustic experiments as an explanation ?

My dearest sir. It’s an honor…. My very best to you… i apologize if i could not make that as clear as water.... My very best to you.... If you only knew how to point and click in the internet including navigation on this very one and only website you are posting on, you would have quickly realized the acoustic experiments are simply not something unknown to me. My best and kindest regards your honorary dearest friend…

I will deeply and heartfully accept them because you are full of kindness and humor...

But you rebuked my  explanation by claiming that all i said or ever will say is related to  "smoking"... Sarcasm so gently put  cannot schock me because there is truth in any good will explanation , yours included...

Why not simply accept acoustic  experiments as an explanation ?

i apologize if i could not make that as clear as water....

I will go back to my hole to "smoke" ...And listening music... Perhaps jazz...

My very best to you....

And recommending is not insulting...

My deepest sincerely kindest regards apologies to you… from the heart felt heart ❤️. Who said anything about insulting? Sincerely not me

I only replied because i think that you wanted a "formula"...

For what you smoke. I got nothing. Except your polite gentle politically correct passive aggressive usual typical blubbering. My deepest sincere heartfelt best regards kindest apologies to you

I only replied because i think that you wanted a "formula"...Then i recommended Choueri... Perhaps you will be interested by reading about him... Thats all...

There is no simple formula in small room acoustic..

But i give you my dreamed solution to bypass acoustic study... And recommending is not insulting... 😁😉😊

But…. Who said I needed any recommendations?

Recommend…. Hmmmm… too many times in your reply to me. Biggest sincere from the heart kindest yours truly apologizes to you if not directed to me…. But…. Who said I needed any recommendations?

Kindest regards yours  truly … from the heart heartfelt… from the deep heart felt here etc.

I cannot recommend my headphone even if they are more than good( because it takes me 6 months to figure out how they work, the design of this headphone is unique, complex and very hard to link to the right components and we must make some internal optimization  and not everyone can take this risk and job) ,

I cannot recommend you my Sansui Alpha because there exist better amplifier anyway and for the price i paid (300) bucks they sell it way higher now and it is less a bargain ..i cannot recommend my basic good dac too as A SOLUTION...

But i can recommend you if you own already basically relatively good components something that will spare you the job to learn acoustic for your speakers/room...

Dr. Choueri BACCH filters... This is a revolution in acoustic... If i had the money it will be my only and last upgrade ...

i can live with my actual headphone systems though because it is anyway the best i listened to including Stax or my past Tannoy dual gold by far...And for 600 bucks... 😊

I apologize deeply for saying this… I am sorry… but I am very disappointed. I was looking forward to a formula. Or a store name ‘ brand.

I smoked at the times acoustic articles wrapped in thin ring with a spice in them...

I apologize deeply for saying this… I am sorry… but I am very disappointed. I was looking forward to a formula. Or a store name ‘ brand.

I wish you the best from my heart... I did not mean any harm.… No animals were hurt while writing my post. Kindest regards 

I realize you did not think any wrong...

It is me who apologize... I am sorry...

I feel the urge to react too much it seems..

I smoked at the times acoustic articles wrapped in thin ring with a spice in them...😁😊

I wish you the best from my heart... I react too much too often but i did not means any harm just to precise my experience and thoughts ...

@mahgister : I am very sorry. I stopped reading your posts a long time ago, before you lost your house. So big apologies I won’t read this. I just know you slammed me, of course in your politically correct, polite, gentle, passive aggressive way. However, I would truly like to know what you smoke. I will immediately buy some

@mahgister : I am very sorry. I stopped reading your posts a long time ago, before you lost your house. So big apologies I won’t read this. I just know you slammed me, of course in your politically correct, polite, gentle, passive aggressive way. Which is OK. I take it, and I deserve it. Go Orange!
 

However, I would truly like to know what you smoke. I will immediately buy some

just a RECTIFICATION...

I never said that a 50 bucks vintage speakers sound like a 50,000 bucks speakers...

Second i said that my Tannoy dual gold or Magnepan ( few thousand dollars) in a bad room sound way less good than my 50 bucks Vintage Speakers Mission Cyrus which tannoy and Magnepan exhibit on blueprint paper and by most people experience, included mine, a better design ...THE ROOM BEAT THE SPEAKERS...

Third my vintage headphone from 1978 was the best in the world with Stax Omega, AkG K340... Inform yourself before spitting ignorance ... And optimized by me after 6 months of listening experiments and 6 modifications they beat anything i have listen to including speakers at a relatively low price...I dont speak here about 50,000 bucks speakers in a good room... You catch it ?

And you are deluded because your second rule is meaningless, because for sure people buy what they like listening to... It is a preposterouscommon place fact obervation...The problem is we cannot trust our limited experiences for most of us, and my advice is learn basic acoustic by fun experiments to increase our level of perception because WE ALL MUST LEARN HOW TO LISTEN...No baby is born mature audiophile or marure acoustician or maqture musician..

You did not NAME me but i recognized me... Think twice BEFORE putting absurd claims in my mouth... 😁😊

But I have to say: whoever says a cheap box store $50 pair of speakers sounds just like a $50,000 pair of speakers, or some cheap headphones for 50 years ago…

This is pretty simple. Two “rules”:

1) Buy only what you can afford

2) Buy what you prefer (after personal experience, listening for yourself)

But I have to say: whoever says a cheap box store $50 pair of speakers sounds just like a $50,000 pair of speakers, or some cheap headphones for 50 years ago… I want to have what you are smoking. Please share. It will save me a bunch of money (maybe for a super duper bike, which I obviously don’t ride 😉🤦‍♂️🤷‍♂️)

@mihorn : your shilling is unbearable. You must be very desperate. Complete turn off really. I would personally never buy something from you, even one cent on the dollar. And what you said here about listening to YouTube stuff vs. audio shows is outright “intellectually challenged “ (I tried very hard not to say “retarded” for respect of such individuals):

YT is where they can listen to audio sounds and decide what to buy. Visiting audio shows and stores is not enough to understand audio sounds. Watch as many audio equipment videos. So, they learn what to listen in expensive audio systems.

Labeling MId-fi or hi-fi on audio systems is not important. What is important is you need to know what you are listening. You have constant and expensive upgrade urges. The world is changing quickly nowadays and you need to know what is new and available. Don't waste you money on wrong items. Keep listening the new sound videos and news.

Audiogon is the best place for new information for new potential audiophiles. Also, YT is where they can listen to audio sounds and decide what to buy. Visiting audio shows and stores is not enough to understand audio sounds. Watch as many audio equipment videos. So, they learn what to listen in expensive audio systems. 

Alex/Wavetouch

Never understood where the midfi term came from? But to answer,  if your speakers are above $100,000 for the audio gurus.  

From the midfi champ.

Mid-fi, as others have so noted, seems like a marketing term, rather than a term having any use in characterizing quality differential. I never heard of it until now.

Well, IMHO, if you're worried about labels, you're worried about the wrong thing. If the sound from your system is music to your ears, what difference does labeling the equipment make? None.  And irrespective of what other listeners may opine (be they plebe, rube, or Audiophilus Rex) your own preference in sound is simply unassailable in your listening room. Forget the hogwash and get what you like!

There is no room for interpretation here...😊

"distortion" is not an acoustic problem first but result from the electronical designof components...

Then as i said, "high fidelity" is not a basic acoustical concept mainly , but a concept related to optimal or not so optimal electronical design... This concept is born with the electronical industry linked to sound reproduction and engineering standards...

Timbre perception and soundfield immersiveness (ASW/LV) conditions are basic problems in acoustic and psycho-acoustic to be adress, ONCE the electronical design noise and distortion is under control and good to begin with...

And even Magnepan can deliver an inferior experience if we listen to it in a non adapted living room...I know that first hand ...My Tannoy dual gold which were potentially way better than my Mission Cyrus design were inferior as the Magnepan superior design was too ,compared to the low price Mission Cyrus IN A DEDICATED FOR IT ROOM...The magnepan and the Tannoy, Alas! were experience in living room and not in a dedicated room... This why my low cost Mission beat them...The relation speakers/room is more important for audiophile experience than just the speakers design blueprint so better it is ...

Then the best audiophile experience is determined by acoustic experience and knowledge not by price tag of electronic components and not even by superior design ... Saying that costlier design is better is not false, it is worst than that, it is an HALF TRUTH... it is consumers marketing conditioning... Not acoustic science nor my experience ....

My perspective is not popular with people owning very costly system...😊 They think that i devaluate their really better design, I did not, I never claimed that low cost gear can replace very costlier superior design, no more than my inferior Mission can replace my Tannoy or Magnepan, i claim that we must if we want to judge a system potential we must listen to it in a dedicated room or at least in a very well treated and acoustically good living room...

Then the room /speakers relation is the KEY... Not the price of a dac, especially nowadays that many dac are really good even at low price... The differential decisive factor to real audiophile experience is acoustic room treatment and mechanical control or virtual room acoustic as with Dr. Choueri BACCH filters...... If people think that in spite of their real perceived differences it is vinyl versus analog, or digital versus turntable or the amplifier price or the speakers price by themselves ALONE ,they delude themselves.....And the marketing of audio want deluded consumers  walking all over the place and upgrading without end searching out of acoustic which only acoustic can give... But it is not a good news: we must learn and work , there is no "buy and ready to plug" audiophile top experience ...

the Dictionary.com definition of High-Fidelity is:

noun Electronics.

1. sound reproduction over the full range of audible frequencies with very little distortion of the original signal.

That leaves quite a bit of room for interpretation.

My personal definition of when you’ve crossed over from Mid-Fi to Hi-Fi is that your favorite sample tracks you used previously for demoing electronics because they had “good bass” or “tinkling bells” or an impressive “drum hit” or a “powdery woman’s voice” no longer sound so impressive, and may sound downright dull on your system, while other tracks with dramatic contrast in tempo and loudness, interesting or complicated spatial cues, or fantastic pace, rhythm and timing now grab your attention.  YMMV

kn

Just for perspective, the Dictionary.com definition of High-Fidelity is:

noun Electronics.

1. sound reproduction over the full range of audible frequencies with very little distortion of the original signal.

That leaves quite a bit of room for interpretation.

There is some interesting information on the origin of the term “High Fidelity” on Wikipedia.

Those Klipsch and Magnepan models listed by the OP should deliver something approaching a HiFi experience as defined above if set up correctly.

If you spend more money, you get more hifi....Especially with Dacs and Interconnects. If you don't spend at least $10k on a Dac you're not allowed to even talk about what sounds great.

I've been listening to mid-fi equipment and speakers for 5 decades now.  It wasn't until I heard/experienced a few audio systems that blew me away.  The first was 42 years ago at Michael Lane's home with 250,000 records.  He custom built his equipment (he was a genius engineer at Cal Tech) with huge corner speakers (possibly horn-I don't remember).  He played 1903 Grieg at the piano and the sound was like a 50's LP with the frequency response and dynamic limitations of 1903.  He had 25 or more stylii and varied the e.q. per record, obtaining incredibly reduced record noise.  His Remington LPs sounded spectacular, like a Maggie with dynamics.  

Then I heard the Von Schweikert Ultra 11s with my LPs and CDs.  That was a revelation (of $1+ million cost) of sound reproduction I had not experienced in dozens of audio shows.  

In the past 6 years, my goal was to get closer to that sound in my own primary listening room.  It has taken multiple changes in some equipment, mostly tweaks in getting there.  SR fuses, Tripplite voltage regulators for pre-amps (only one plug works to enhance nearest the power cable, the others yuk) and two Shakti on-lines (nothing else works for me, just one above the Tripplite power cable and the other on the power amp plug to wall outlet).  I've removed some SR HFTs and added a GIK Q7D quadradic diffuser.  Tried a half dozen DACs, digital cables and a dozen transports.  Finally got my main system sounding at least half a good and involving as the $1 million system for 1/15th the cost in equipment (the room alone was $150K though).  I kept much of the older equipment such as the VPI TNT VI mod and SME IV mod from decades ago, cabling, speakers, etc.  

Anyone would hear my main system and declare it high end.  It's not perfect (flaws include single seat/inferior diffusion of sound seating and ambiance.  Of course I listen to many 50's and 60's recordings which have left/right recorded sound, ambiance depends on the recording as well.  My 11,500 CDs are now as enjoyable as my analog recordings (about 36,000 various formats).  

By experiencing the best (one of the best) audio systems ever, I knew what to shoot for.  Getting there has taken years though and eventually, I will replace the speakers (after 20 years of stats, I went with a full range, dynamic floor standing speaker for 20 more years).  .  

It looks like it was a marketing term from the early 50s which was superseded by the term ‘stereo’.  More recently another nebulous term, ‘audiophile’ is used to label equipment that the foolish purchase.

Back in the day, a unified box consisting of a turntable, tuner and likely a couple of full range drivers was considered “hifi”. I’m sure many here recall the consoles of yesteryear 

Like everything else in this hobby, hifi is whatever works for you.

An early definition of high fidelity may be found on pages 630-632 of the Radiotron Designers Handbook, 4th edition.  Too long to copy/paste here, but e copies of the book are out there.....it's a wonderful resource for those who enjoy tube gear.

If you like them, that’s all that matters 

I am not sure that i understand your question...

There is one thing in life exciting and interesting and it is NOT what you bought, but what will you do with the purchase...

The other thing exciting and interesting is being able to do the MOST with the less ....

Another thing interesting and exciting is KNOWING exactly why you will purchase something...And knowing you will never need MORE, not because your system will be a makeshift, but because it will be among top in the world by the ratio for the higher possible S.Q. for the less possible price...

Purchasing a 100,000 dollars speakers or amplifier or dac make no sense at all for me , why?

Because being there you will be in the obligation to buy a 50,000 bucks dac instead of a 10,000 one and the same for the amplifier....And they will not necessarily be the best.... The end results will be as in any uninformed purchase by faith in the price tags if not a mediocre system , a system which ca be rivalled at a way, way less price with basic knowledge or informed purchase...

With knowledge Hi-Fi can cost if not peanuts , not so much.... For me the top system i dream about is : under 15,000... And i know it will rival anything or it will not be too far behind...and i know exactly why this will be so...

The only thing costly in audio that impress me are room acoustic designed by pro...the price of any components passed a certain amounts is more snobism and ignorance most of the times, but not in all case for sure some people can afford the best and know how to purchase it...... Some TOP design are costly for a reason... But i can make something not far behind for less anyway...

When i begun my journey i was sad because i did not have any money to create my Hi-FI heaven... Now i know it was real luck , because i learned a lot... People with money most of the times dont learn instead they buy...

i dont feel frustration because i dont own a 400,000 bucks system, i dont need it at all ... The only case i will be envious is a dedicated acoustic room well designed ... This will cost at least 100, 000 bucks... And you dont need to put a 100,000 bucks amplifier and 100,000 bucks amplifier there AT ALL... I say all this not to criticize people who can afford that, why not? i say that for the people who cannot and feel frustrated... My message and recommendation is feel empowered by studying a bit and experimenting... This is way more rewarding than any purchase...

To answer your question :

For sure a 400,000 system IS HI-FI in principle, because at this price the design is at least good and better than most low cost systems ...But the room matter if not equally even more.... Then i need to experience this system in a room to decide if it is mediocre, good or TOP for the EARS...The room decide not the price tag of component in my experience...

The best system i listened to now is mine with 100 bucks headphone ... But think about that: do you think one of the best amplifier in the world in 1980 and one of the best headphone of all time and the flagship of AKG in 1978 is completely mediocre and without anything special ? You are wrong if you think so.... A stax Omega system in 1978 is always a top system... And my headphone rival them and beat them for the bass completely, i felt Baoch organ works with my body and feet... ... And the holography is to die for... Then ?

No one can make me envious because i know what i do with the components i pick...There are not the best in the absolute , only a fool can claim such a thing; but they are unbeatable in the ratio S.Q./ low price ...

Give me 12,000 dollars and i will upgrade and THEN  compete with anything almost...Nowadays anyway there is a revolution in DSP and dac, and most people dont even know about it... Then they pay MORE for LESS....

@Mahgister what if you are like tubebuffer and have a $400k system in your tool shed? Classy but not hifi?

i concur totally with retrocrownfan...

Most people had no experience and no idea about acoustic coupling of speakers with a specific room and the reverse...They then thougtht that price tags will spare them the need to experiment and learn basic acoustic....

My Mission Cyrus with a lesser high quality design were way better than my Tannoy dual gold ONLY because they were coupled to a dedicated room...Alas! when i learned basic  acoustic i had already sold my Tannoy...I can only dream of them in a room tailor made for them...

No speakers beat their room...

Sorry, but not a useful parsing. There are speakers under $1500 a pair that would embarrass most golden ear audiophiles in blind A/B test. HiFi vs MidFi is only about price and perceived brand value. Companies make ROI decisions based on volume of sales vs unit mark up. IAG in China has been a brilliant vertically integrated force with the market-changing products they engineer and produce under the venerable British brands they purchased.

@Mahgister what if you are like tubebuffer and have a $400k system in your tool shed? Classy but not hifi? 

Whoever says Cornwall speakers are not Hi Fi needs better hearing aids. Many people supplement with high quality subs to makeup for the low-end issue. I guess all the rant about LS 50 bookshelf would apply too. All that matters is your happy with the sound. Don't let snobbery spoil your joy.

Sorry, but not a useful parsing. There are speakers under $1500 a pair that would embarrass most golden ear audiophiles in blind A/B test. HiFi vs MidFi is only about price and perceived brand value. Companies make ROI decisions based on volume of sales vs unit mark up. IAG in China has been a brilliant vertically integrated force with the market-changing products they engineer and produce under the venerable British brands they purchased.

Simple : there is no Hi-Fi without dedicated acoustic room....

Price tags means not optimal soundfield...

The only reason why people think otherwise, they had no personal experience of a room acoustically tailor made for specific speakers...I thought the same BEFORE i tune a room...

Small room acoustic obey other principle than great hall acoustic ...

It takes exposure to "quality" "properly set up" systems to be able to build a point of reference. If someone doesn't have the practice or trained ear it kind of becomes a series of judgements on top of marketing hype (or always is). 

After experience comes preference, and once you find your preference people will either agree or disagree with you. If every audiophile listened to 100 systems and rated them for 20 characteristics you'd have some people start picking apart the time of day and the power grid conditions.

There's no simple answer- Miller would argue he had hi-fi and the majority of people told him it was low-fi.    

I fully agree with @2psyop it’s all relative and a matter of your personal perspective. And keep in mind that much of what is dismissed as “mid-fi” on this and other forums produces better stereo sound than what 99% of the population has ever heard. 

Stupid argument. Who cares what anyone says. I think it is fair to day what is garbage though. You know it when you see it. Crosley anyone?

The Best Buy haters should differentiate between ones that have a Magnolia department and ones that lump whatever stereo equipment they happen to have with the regular stuff. The Best Buys I've been to have Magnolias, and always have at least one guy who knows about 2 channel audio and a very nicely designed demo room. Maybe not turntable experts since they don't sell many of them, but they do carry them. I wouldn't want them to set one up though.  

They carry McIntosh, KEF, Rega, Rotel, B&W and maybe some other manufacturers that are financially strong companies that can afford to give Best Buy a deal on outfitting these Magnolia stores with demo equipment. 

Interestingly enough, you can usually get a better deal at a mom and pop (usually Pop) stereo store that typically has worse return policies. Except when there is a close out at Best Buy when I expect them to blow out their demo equipment.

One word:  Thiel

"I can hear music...."

https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=y0ZGnwVfX4o