YouTube : “40% Of Audiophiles Are Dying And No One Is Doing Anything About It!”
His take :
The average age of Audiophiles has risen significantly, and he cautions viewers with a dire warning that we may be a dying breed with little new blood coming into the hobby.
the opening monologue has it’s big exaggeration for the reviewer’s initial puffery effect, but the rest is a decent-enough watch.
https://youtu.be/SM2E6MxkJiY?si=6Xm-pgjFXsTCac98
Here’s an amusing comment posted by one viewer to his video”
” …I think we’re facing the start of bargain hifi buys from deceased estates, offered by the widows who are glad to get rid of it as quickly as possible!…”
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Actually, 100% of audiophiles are dying.
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Amongst others, I believe that one critical aspect of why high-end audio, in general, and the number of audiophiles are, and have been for many years now, declining at a rapid pace, is because of the depressing decline in the culture and the quality of most music that has been produced over the past 30 years or so. I won’t go into further detail. But you get the idea. In the 50, 60, 70 and 80s, the music itself had more heart, soul, passion, emotion, creativity and "QUALITY." People, young and old, were more passionate about the music back in those years, which is the key to why they were more passionate about their audio equipment for all that time. As the passion for the music itself has declined, so has the passion for the means by which to play it. This is why you see most all current audiophiles (like myself) are now from a bygone era as described above. Happy listening.
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When I was in my late twenties I would drive up a hundred miles to Phoenix and go to the dealer that sold Audio Research equipment to listen to it and other components that I could not afford. I would see these old guys... you know the same age group that could afford the Corvette (different subgroup thought). They would come in and haul off the equipment I was drueling over. Fast forward 40 years... now I'm the old guy doing that.
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@ghdprentice
I believe that what made high-end audio so very compelling and successful in our day (for decades) was #1: how compelling the music was for all those years. The music (passion) is what actually produces audiophiles, and future audiophiles. The music is what drives the high-end audio industry and not the opposite. I believe that, more than anything, IMOH, bad, non-compelling, poor quality music, over the past 30 years or so, has really hurt the high-end audio industry. Happy listening.
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In the last TV appearance of political writer Cristopher Hitchens (who was known to be undergoing treatment for cancer) that I saw, he was asked by the interviewer how he was. He replied "Well, I'm dying. But so are you."
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@bdp24 Brother Hitch, as we called him, was a dear friend, although neither a melomaniac nor an audiophile. Like Molly Ivins, living larger than life allows but leaving unforgettable shadows.
That said, the dearth of good new music is sufficient explanation for the decline of interest in reproducing it.
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Lots of great, well recorded music being made now. A great aspect of streaming music is that this is easily discoverable. The music is not the issue.
With widespread income disparity ever increasing, the high end industry became drunk on ever increasing prices. That turned off lots of folks. It’s happening to the ski industry now, another passion of mine that I am getting ready to walk away from.
Thank goodness for Schiit and the like for breaking new ground in affordable high end audio.
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I’m not surprised that the OP found primarily older men in the gear store. I am more surprised that he found an actual store that sells gear
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Many years ago dealer , salesman , won’t entertain young costumers on their twenties? They are after the money. Now most of the dealer are onliine the opportunity to introduce high end audio is almost gone.
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My local store, Audio Advice stated recently that the vast majority of sales are home theater, not high end audio. Audio Advice has big beautiful stores in Raleigh & Charlotte & and a large online presence.
The majority of HT sales vs audio was quite surprising to me. Perhaps expanding classic audio stores (if not done already) to include HT, & an expanded online presence is the key to remaining viable by expanding revenue opportunities & attracting a younger audience.
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I have kids in their 30’s and early 40’s and they have been around my higher priced audio products during that time. They use Beats and Apple AirPod pros, but they drive nice cars.
Audio equipment is not ‘cool’ like sports cars for the younger and even the older generation.
My audio system has approached 6 digits but my sports car costs quite a bit more. I think you see this on a regular basis, I do.
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I love new music. There is so much. I buy gear that lets me maximize it. New music is more full that yesterday’s. Most older folks here have stopped deep diving into new artists. Classically trained passionate artists who produce electronic and house. Composers of carefully layered hiphop. But most here are not a part of those “conversations”. I also find it sad that all these older folks lack education. They don’t know how to properly analyze new information. All old heuristics for this sad lot. So many Ad Hominem attacks on “new music”, anyone can point out mass production garbage. But that only makes up 1% of new music. If you can’t name 1000 new artists than you shouldn’t talk. Otherwise, from a scientific perspective, you are speaking from ignorance. Old people are just are as sensitive as those generations they complain about. Gen X just sits and watches your inauthenticity play out over the past 40 years. Now we want your equipment at a fraction of purchase price when you die. Is that gonna be soon?
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What we’re experiencing is a perfect storm as it relates to the demise of "specialty audio."
Back in the 70s, new sales guys would show up to work on Day One with a love for music and the equipment that reproduced it. They’d already have a working "audiophile" vocabulary and would often bring in their own favorite demo material from the personal collections. It was cool, and prestigious, to work in an audio store.
Some manufacturers, seeing success with loyal specialty retailers made the decision to expand distribution to other channels. This not only drove prices down, but had other impactful implications for the industry as a whole. Big box business models were more efficient and could operate at lower margins. Department and catalog stores actually used "hifi" as traffic building loss leaders -- selling items at their net, net cost -- or below.. So, here’s the special store forced to sell an item at his cost, ringing it up, and presented with a credit card (with 3%-5% fee on the gross sale -- including sales tax) for payment. This got uglier with the Internet and the loophole to bypass sales tax. The brick and mortar retailer, being part of the community could not get around collecting these state and local taxes and pass them along to the consumer -- OR pay for them. Many customers "assume" the retailer will not be competitive and not give them the opportunity. Or, simply "catalog" them -- use the retailer’s space, time and investment in inventory to make a selection -- then order it via the Internet. Yes, some Etailers were true innovators, but more often than not, vampires who took the brand names and technologies developed through years of hard work by "specialty" dealers and sucked the life out of them.
But, the biggest casualty here was "the audio specialty" salesman, or audio consultant. Once respected for their knowledge and commitment to being a good steward of the customer’s money, was now demoted to "audio broker" whereby his/her value was providing the lowest cost for the item of interest. Usually on an unfair playing field (big box, Internet, etc) who would leverage their strengths to their advantage. As one industry professional stated: "It was once the fear of not buying the right product from the right dealer that day. Now it’s the fear of not getting the best deal that day."
This lead to fewer and fewer people desiring to make high performance audio their career. I’d like to acknowledge the high end "boutique" stores were fairly insulated from all of this. But, I can’t overemphasize the role of "consumer" hifi stores that offered quality systems for first time buyers, and an upgrade path to better gear. Some who would eventually "graduate" to authentic high end gear. Without actively supporting the tools (and people) necessary to build a wildly enthusiastic, growing hifi base, the industry shot itself in the foot. More accurately, both feet.
Could it get any worse? Short answer" "yes."
While high performance audio was seeing incremental increases in technology and performance, the video industry was exploding. This was initially good in the beginning for the "specialty stores." Products that were intimidating, complicated and expensive were the forte of specialty retailing. Consumers simply didn’t want to take the risk of getting it wrong. And there was money to be made. But as products became less complicated to own, set up, and cheaper, consumers didn’t need "experts" to put a system together. Innovations were coming fast and furious. When video was experiencing Blu-ray (hifi fidelity picture and sound) and "the race to zero" where the competition to decrease the price of flat panel televisions to the lowest on the street, audio was "ho humming" along with little to grab the attention of the now, new, video enthusiast. Audio took the back seat to video. Audio "enhanced" the movie experience as opposed to being the center of attention in dedicated 2-channel systems. First time buyers loaded up their flat panel TVs and soundbars in their minivans and went home. It sounds "good enough."
Some manufacturers eventually figured out that bypassing those who made them successful was not a good idea, and threw support back to them. By then, it was too little, too late.
- from a 50 year+ industry veteran
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@mopsauce
Lack of discrimination, like ignorance, must be bliss.
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From my experience, it's usually older people at any of the Audio stores I go to. Just turned 50 this year, feel like I'm the young guy. This was especially so when I went to my first Audio convention.
I think with the availability of music everywhere, a dedicated listing room is fading. Just like young kids do not watch TV anymore, they stream everything on the phone or laptop. Hi fidelity is just not important to them. My kid loves music! But it's K-pop, had a nice 2ch setup in their room. This didn't fit the "ascetic" a cheap $50 all in one unit replaced the system. It sounds like poo, but my kid loves it. When we listen to music on my system, they are not impressed with how good it sounds.
When most people consume music streamed through a phone on cheap earbuds, these are not the people who will drop $5k on speakers. It's just not important to them. Also think this is why Spotify has yet to come out with HI-Rez, most people just don't care.
Yes, then there is the HT scene. Everything is sound bars, and multichannel. My HT speakers are several levels down from my 2ch speakers. I do have 11 speakers and 2 sub in there. Yet, music doesn't sound as good.
The takeaway is, most people consume music far differently than we did just 20 years ago. Fidelity is not as important as access. Expensive systems are lost on most young people. HT is still king, where money and retail space is taking up.
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I don't see any evidence that that the audiophile hobby is dying or even shrinking.
1. There are more audiophile brands every week. I see company after company coming onto the scene with new gear at all price levels. Peruse the latest Music Direct catalog and tell me this industry is dying.
2. The market for used gear is larger than it's ever been. Browse through all the ads in Audiogon and USAM. The great majority of this gear is coming from people who have upgraded - a critical source of revenue for the industry.
3. The upper end of the market has been exploding with new companies specializing in 6 figure equipment and new model introduductions at a rapid pace.
4. The lower end of the market is also rapidly expanding with amazing new products introduced every month. You can put together a really good 2 channel system for under $5k if you are just streaming. $15k buys you what would have been considered top end sound a couple decades ago.
5. The number of retailers has indeed shrunk but the retail industry has regionalized to accomodate the cost of flooring and demonstrating high priced gear. If you are going to buy piece costing multiples of $10k you will travel a few hours to hear it.
6. Yes, the high end is dominated by geezers. We're the ones with the money. But there is always a crop of middle age music lovers waiting untl the kids get out of college to start putting together their dream system.
7. The two major audiophile publications (TAS, Stereophile) are vibrant and healthy. They have plenty of advertisers to support them and each issue brings ads for new companies and new models. How many cable companies do we need?
8. Audiophile shows are booming. We now have shows all accross the county and attendance regularly sets new records. Journalists are seeing an increase in younger people and women at the shows. The hotel hosting this year's AXONA sold out months ago.
I've been involved in this hobby for over 50 years and I can tell you that it's always been on the verge of extinction. We audiophiles love to get twitterpated about how we're the last great hope. However it's now bigger than it's ever been and it is growing across the range of price and quality. Those geezers you see in your family member's audio shop have always been there and in a few years there will be a new set of geezers to take their place.
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I have had a very similar discussion / debate with many others in the ’vintage’ audiophile community... you know, the ones that have storage lockers filled with 50 - 60 year old equipment and won’t part with any of it because it is an "investment"...
Mark my words. In the next 10 - 20 years the vintage branch of the HiFi market will dry up faster than that firewood you have stacked up next to your garage. And the vast majority of these ’investments’ won’t be worth the cost of having 1-800-GOT JUNK come and take it all away (which is what your kids are going to do after you are gone...) And I would think similar to the modern audiophile industry as well.
Look at the ’musclecar’ market on a large scale to see what the future holds. Yeah, if you have a fully restored Hemi Superbird or a 70 Chevelle SS LS6 you are still golden... but that 1969 Nova with the 350 that cost you 20K to do a full-on rotisserie resto in 2015..? You aren’t even going to recoup that 5 -year old restoration bill anymore... in fact, you would be luck to get back HALF that cost today.
Now, in fairness, there will ALWAYS be at least some demand and interest in the most high end and rarest audio equipment, whether of the vintage or modern variety (or classic musclecars, for that matter). And there will always be high net worth individuals willing to spend a premium in order to acquire said equipment. But all those folks with the Marantz receivers and the 1980 Klipsch Heresy speakers and the JBL 100s, etc. who think they are sitting on a goldmine of ever increasing value...
IMO the time to sell and get what you can is fast approaching. Holding for longer than maybe another 5 years will almost certainly bring no better than current prices - and quite possibly you will have missed the peak, and maybe even less than today’s pricing.
There just won’t be as many people interested in this stuff anymore. Period.
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https://youtu.be/Pz5tSjE4afM?si=L7LgeRRzwAWwRLnE
Saw this videos along with the most popular comments. The future of audio looks very gloomy. A lot of the younglings are lured into the Reddit and ASR cult. Getting brainwashed by the dark side of measurements.
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These threads are depressing
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But I don't want to sell anything.
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Do you have statistical proof?
Theres small glimpses here and there, but overall statistics of the hobby are hard to find since everything is compartmentalized. Last year I had mentioned that it seems like a meta-analysis of some kind would be useful. A few years ago the average age of members on this forum was 61. A poll on reddit's r/audiophile showed that 354 members were under 40, while 254 were over 50. Another poll from the same subreddit reveled that out of 516 participants, a strong majority were also members of ASR, while few belonged to Audiogon or other forums.
As previous members mentioned, there seems to be younger crowds in forums such as Head-Fi, ASR, and Reddit. The variables that could potentially be impacting this hobby and its future have already been mentioned; there’s likely a multitude of reasons. My suspicion with limited confidence:
- Too many competing distractions and financial obligations
- Cost of living, student loans, and housing
- Portability of music services that also offer personalization (double-edged sword)
I also feel that if there wasn’t an issue or concern about the future, we wouldn’t be questioning or discussing - not only on this forum, but other forums as well.
I think this hobby is going to look rather different in the next 25 to 50 years. I often question what Audiogon Forums will look like and whether enthusiasts will refer back to tap forgotten knowledge and experiences that have dissolved into the ether.
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@kennymacc Spot on. Completely agree. I'll use Triumph as an example. Their music had a positive anthem type quality to almost all of their songs. Like "Fight the Good Fight", "Magic Power", "Never Surrender", their songs were uplifting, and if you listen to the lyrics the messages were positive and powerful. Never mind the fact that they defined an entire generation and the music was great. You just don't see bands putting out those types of messages anymore...sadly...
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So I am 74 and just 5 years ago just learned by accident what tubes sounds like compared to Solid-state to my ears..I feel blessed and was blown away what oldie songs can produce in detail that I never heard before..But I started with 6k Tube Amp and 8k Speakers..And was very happy for 5 years.. And if people come in to hear that system they would say it sounded Clear..What most would say Clear..Only a few could hear the real detail of the music..I only use my system during very late Fall and Winter..And maybe 2 hours a week at that...I play at 75bd with tinnitus and my wife hates to hear my music...I hate country but her and her son will go to Country Music Concert couple times a year and listen at 100db but my music at 75 is to high..But this year decided to trade old tube amp for one 3 times cost of old one... Now most who know me thought I was F'''' Nuts with what I had before and money spent....So talking to wife and if something happens to me and what to do with equipment...Funny how you think when older..But had a cousin come in with his wife and turned tube amp on and of course they were both blown away of the sound... And yes of course if something happens to me now they want it.. LOL....But these are people who would not pay few hundred for just the cables I have let alone thousands..Most young people are to connected to even sit down with out ear buds and listen to fine tunes from a set of speakers..And to take the time to setup to get best sound from system...And very few young people do not know how to assembly from directions today... Lets face it we have enjoyed a hobby that is slowly going away ...And if my cousin gets my system it will never sound so good for he has NO Clue as to why it sounds so good ...Enjoy what we have for the time we have with it..
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Kind of weird to see this question asked on the same forum that sh@t all over the JBL lifestyle commercial targeted at a younger, female audience a few months ago.
These kids will find their own way if the interest is there. Less gatekeeping from those who’ve been in it for a while is a good place to start.
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Do you believe the people who design, build and sell audio gear don't want young female buyers?
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Gate keeping comes from higher end manufacturers and we audiophiles that speak in code and language unknown to the rest of world. We are simply a cult to rest of world.
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