Seeking a Tube preamplifier
I currently have the following system:
I like the Bp-19 preamp. The sound is refined, detailed and clear but it is missing some of what a tubed preamp delivers. I switched to my backup preamp which is a tubed Rogue Audio RP-1 entry level and noticed that is wasn't as resolving or crystal clear as the Bryston BP-19, but I noticed that a vocalist projected air, depth and a richness that I did not find on my solid state preamp. On a track with a guitar there was a bloom and decay that I didn't notice on the solid state. Now I was thinking what about a tubed preamp that delivers both the positives of a solid state and tubed preamp? My maximum budget new only is $7500.00. Only need a linestage as phono is not required. In any case, I started looking at the entry level Conrad Johnson ET6SE, but confirmed with manufacturer this morning that there is no way to control the balance on their entry level product. I am disappointed, but my seating requires the ability to control the balance. I was also looking at the Rogue Audio RP-9, but their product uses a 6H30 tube which may be difficult to obtain in the future. Any suggestions or thoughts would be appreciated. Thank you.
First question, a preamplifier or line stage? If no vinyl inputs then I'm guessing a line stage is all you need. I've gone through a fair list of both preamps and line stages and settled on a Sachs Model 2. But Don no longer builds those so now available with upgrades from Spatial Audio with their Raven model. I think it would be a mistake not to check that out. |
You have gear that is above your RP-1, so that’s an issue. I am curious as I have an RP-1, have you changed the two 12AU7’s ? A nice pair of Tekefunkens will make a huge improvement. I also recently acquired a mint condition Hera. The Russian Super Tube’s are pretty much unobtainable, but EH gold pin and Sovtek are easy to source. Look up @mulveling on this site, he’s very knowledgeable on Rogue and gives very sound advise. Rogue’s support is first rate as I just had my amps upgraded to Dark status during a repair. My friend has better gear and more money than I and he progressed from Rogue, to Bryston , and now McIntosh. If I had the Cubed like you, I’d consider the Hera , Cary , and definitely the Zesto. Upscale has the Leto 1.5 on sale for $6K , give them a ring. Happy Hunting, Mike B. |
@kjl1065 Since your amp has balanced inputs you might consider a preamp that has balanced outputs. The advantage of going that route is, if the balanced line standard (known as AES48) is supported by the preamp (many high end audio balanced preamps do not, FWIW) then you get less artifact from the interconnect cables. If you've ever auditioned cables side by side and heard a difference, that's what I'm talking about. So if you're inquiring about such a preamp its a good idea to ask the manufacturer about this. There are balanced tube line stage preamps available well within your budget. |
Yes , I’d upgrade too. Going from the RP-1 will be a big step up in performance. The higher quality pre’s with balanced in/out will put you on an entirely different level. As far as tubes it’s personal taste. FWIT Rogue has always recommended Mullards. I’ve tried Mullard , RCA, and Telefunkens plus a half dozen in between. My RP-1 has moved to my second system. You are definitely on the right path. Whatever you choose I’m sure will be nice. It’s unfortunate if you’re like me and live in an area that lacks stores. The gentleman above ( Ralph ) is an absolute master in this arena, and you definitely want to consider his gear. |
Sounds like you wanna keep the detail of the Bryston but just want a little more meat on the bones and maybe a little tube magic? For that in your price range I’d look at the Atmasphere MP3, LTA MicroZOTL, and Backert Labs Rhumba. All are nicely detailed for tube preamps, have balance control, and all but the LTA are fully balanced if that’s a concern. Just some ideas, and best of luck. |
Over the course of 55+ years I have tried many tube preamps but curiously enough not ARC, which has a long time stellar reputation. However within my budget my current VTL 550i is the best I have owned. I upgraded from the VTL 2.5i, which if you have a more limited budget gets you to about 90% of the performance of the 5.5i at a much lower cost and both have balance controls. In terms of bang for buck the 2.5i is the value buy. |
Without even a second thought having 4 decades in audio the Linear Tube Audio Micro Z-OTL latest version 3 preamplifier is exceptional on many levels giving you upto 4 Vacuum tube options ,3 separate gain settings , 1% resistor ladder relay volume with adjustments down to .5 db up to 100 top quality parts throughout $5800- $6610 well worth checking out and made in U.S.A 30 day audition and 3 year transferrable warranty ! |
There's a Backert Labs Rhumba Extreme right now on audiomart and you already have 12AU7 tubes. I doubt that it will be available very long. That's what I have. If you ever wanted to upgrade to a higher level, you could upgrade the caps to VH Audio V-caps and get really close to the Backert Labs Rhythm. |
Your gear deserves so much more than an RP-1, a great tube preamp might be the solution. My first two choices are the Aric Audio Motherlode XL $6,875, and the Don Sachs/Lynn Olson Raven preamp $6,395; sold by Spatial Audio Labs. Best preamps I've ever heard, and I auditioned over a dozen in the last year or so. Next would be the Backert Labs Rhumba Extreme 1.4 $8,500 (NOT the base Rhumba), and the Supratek 6SN7 Cabernet $4,000 or Supratek Grange $6,500, and the I own the Aric Audio Motherlode XL, and it is my last preamp....but the Raven preamp is amazing as well. Both are point to point wired, used incredibly high quality parts, and their reputations are impeccable....and Aric will work with you if you wish to make any customizations to the Motherlode XL |
Like you, I had a Rogue Audio RP-1, but I then moved to an RP-7 for a marked improvement in sound quality. Your budget, however, would allow for an RP-9 from Rogue Audio. Having red the very few r Jews of the RP-9, I am considering having Rogue upgrade my RP-7 to the RP-9, although I would be quite happy to retain the RP-7, as the sound quality is superb. I am using it to drive two monobloc solid state Odyssey Kismet amps. |
I was a rogue guy. I had an old sixty-six from the late 90s. That was a great sounding amp. When I started on my big upgrades a few years back I went with an RP-1. It sounded so much better and I thought to myself, an RP-7 must be even better so I got one. It was crystal clear but somewhat sterile. No tubey goodness at all. I rolled tubes extensively and it got better but never where I really wanted. I read a lot about the don Sachs line stages so I got my hands on one of those and I felt as if nirvana had been reached, but like you, I needed a balance control and the Sachs didn't really have that. What it did have, and what I read a fair bit about after enjoying it, was 6sn7 tubes. I went on a search for preamps with that tube type. There are not ultimately that many: Cary, atma-sphere, modwright, vac, maybe a couple others. It was easy to get my hands on a modwright ls100 and it does have a balance knob that you can turn on and off. This has been where I've landed. It sounded great out of the box and with some NOS RCA tubes it it sounds even better. The Music Room carries them so you can buy it and try it and if you don't like it, return it. If I were to upgrade again I'd strongly consider an atma-sphere as I ended up getting some used MA-1 amps and they made maybe the largest difference in sound other than my analog rig or speakers. |
Consider BAT VK-80. Balanced. Line stage only. It might be a little outside the budget you mentioned but it has the characteristics you described. I use mine in front of a D’Agostino S350. Amazing soundstage and it really helps a powerful SS amp tame typical SS issues without disrupting the dynamics and detail. |
+1 LTA preamps. They're the best of both worlds. Crystal clear detail and gorgeous midrange bloom and soundstage. My MZ2 is very responsive to tube changes and never loses those qualities regardless of tubes. If you want a lush warm liquid sound, use RCAs. Bright and airy, Sylvania, GE well balanced, etc. You create the sound you want. And with the right tubes, super quiet. |
The Raven Preamplifier is tops Remote allows for volume up/down of either channel. |
+1 @vthokie83 The motherland XL feeds both my Aric Audio300b and and Luxman M10X. It was a somfood I sold the Luxman C900 flagship preamp. The adjustable gain is key to driving two completely different amps. |
Keep the Bryston and Add this. https://www.modwright.com/products/analog-bridge/
description: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0s8_WLu_T4
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I went from an RP-7 to a Cary SLP 05. Everything got better from my perspective. Sound stage expanded, detail stayed about the same but overall midrange (what I hear) became richer. Over all the sound came alive and became more soulful if that makes sense. I’ve up graded to NOS tubes. I could not be happier. On a side note the SLP 98 recommended above does don’t come with balanced outs. Maybe an upgrade but not stock. |
@rmdmoore The MA-1 has a direct coupled output. That same output is used in our preamps, but because its further upstream it makes a much bigger difference since its more transparent. IOW we think that doing this at the preamp level is a bigger deal. |
@maxdukecapone I was struggling to figure out what somfood was, so I Googled it. 😁 Fish Processing Plant. The large fishes and other various fishes will be preserved, processed also make fillets or sale it locally. |
@sls883 Mmmmm that sounds good! Bonus! |
Preowned Aesthetix, Calypso Signatute... has a balance control, true fully balanced compnent with every input/output available in XLR, lineatage only, looks amazing and has an easy Velcro-esque pop top for tube trials. Mine currently running with NOS Brimar 12ax7 & Amperex 6922 tubes - just a perfect component for me & my setup. Have used Chord, BAT, Canary even Shindo power amps with it each being a wonderful pairing. They are a bit over $8K new so a lightly usd one would be a winner for you budget-wise. Just my opinion. |
I’ve had a Zesto Pre and PS Audio BHK, both are great. LTA and Aric though would be where I’d go. Both use top of the line parts and have exceptional know how when it comes to design, implementation. If I switch up my Pre it will be a touch decision on which to roll with but will be one of these 2 options. Don’t sleep on how much tubes influence the sound of a tube pre, BHK is a hybrid, with the stock tubes it’s a good pre, with vintage Telefunken tubes moves up several levels. You’ve gotten great advice in this thread, good luck!! |
@kjl1065 - Another vote for the Linear Tube Audio preamp. It’s really good. I believe they have a return policy. But after hearing it in your system, I doubt you’ll want to return it |
I bought a music hall ph 25.2 hybrid headphone/preamp on a whim. I’ll tell you what, the thing sounds freaking awesome! Picked it up on sale for 399...if you want to hear that bloom, this thing has it in spades, I’m shocked at how good it sounds. It also seems to provide plenty of detail for me. Yeah, your gear and your budget is way more $ than this thing, but I think for an outlay of a lousy 400, you may be very surprised. I think this thing is a hidden gem of a budget component. I think I’m gonna buy another one, to have it in reserve, in the event of a failure. I honestly think that this little preamp proves that you do not need to spend an absurd amount of $ to get a very high quality sound. Just tell your friends you spent several grand on it, lol. As a bonus, your getting a darn good headphone amp too. It’s been implemented in my second set up, connected to two NAD 268 class D amplifiers that are in bridged mode/300 watts per Chanel, and an insane amount of power on dynamic peaks for short bursts (we are talking a half kilowatt!). I’m shocked how good this very cost effective set up sounds. It has me second guessing a lot of things. All ears are different and your results may vary, but to my ears, it sounds very pleasing. My other system consists of Sugden class A and Tannoys. https://soundapproach.com/music-hall-ph25-2-hybrid-headphone-amplifier-with-tube-preamp.html You can get it for only $359 from the sound approach link above.... https://www.musichallaudio.com/products/music-hall-ha11-1-headphone-amplifier |
Thank you for your responses. The last two responses recommended the following:
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Another +1 for the MicroZotl Pre. I had the Stage 1 balanced and then the 2. Will upgrade to Stage 3 shortly. (However, the latest model is 5950.) I have upgraded my tubes to the 6SN7 which added some base firmness to my Maggie’s (LRS+). Crafting the sound to your situation is very helpful. I also use the Bryston 2B-LP (updated by Bryston) and I am most happy with clear wide expansive sound. Good luck! |
