More Bass

Are the speakers broken in or are they new?

Sorry to hear that. I have a pair of Atalante 3 monitors with 7" mid woofers and they practically sound as bass laden as my JBL 4319 monitors with 12" woofers. They give up very, very little and even have a stronger mid range presence as well. I'm inclined to think it may be your room and that some break in is needed.

All the best,
Nonoise

@soix - they have a few hours on them but Legacy themselves say they don't need break-in (I have the email).

Are you sure the issue is the speakers and not the room? Have you had satisfactory bass in this room previously?

Likely your room or the way they’re set up, but without a pic, who knows?  Knowing what amplifier you are using might help too.

Also, what’s with your 7" woofer reference? I thought they had 7" midwoofers + 10" subwoofers.

The Signatures I believe are a sealed-box design, so maybe if you’re used to hearing ported speakers the bass is just different so you may need to give some time for your ears to adjust and for the speakers time to settle in more.  From what I saw it looks like they have dual 10” woofers and go down to 22Hz (-2dBj, which is damn near full-range.  Maybe try pushing the speakers a little closer to the back wall to possibly add some extra room reinforcement?  BTW, what amp are you using and what speakers did you have before?  Just some thoughts FWIW, and best of luck in figuring this out. 

The crossover components as well as drivers themselves need at least 200hrs of signal running thru them to open up and stabilize. Way too early for a judgement call. 

What are you using for power?

You probably already did this but make sure the speakers are not wired out of phase.  After that it's likely your room / speaker positioning. 

Is the trial period over?

@ddd1 - my apologies, yes two 10" woofer (not 7")

@soix - yes, sealed box design, other speakers I have had have been rear ported, so adjusting to them makes sense. Last speakers were Kef R 11s.

@russ69 - amplification is a Coda #8 for power and a Coda CB pre-amp

Yes, the room is not great and I’m working on it. I will continue to break them in.

Your speakers need to break in. You probably need some room treatment and I would ask dealer advice on how to get a max set up.

Legacy Signature 3 owner here. Does your speakers have the switches on the backside to turn off and on the rear firing tweeters? Maybe play with those switches a bit and see if it helps. Read the manual first. They may be in an undesirable position. Also mine are biamped. 

@jeffseight - still have time on the trail period, but I’d just like to try and make these work, so more burn-in and I have to figure out some kind of inexpensive room treatments. I blew the motherload on a major remodel and this stereo. I’m suppose to retire in May, sure hope they can keep me on for a few more...

@tuberist - will do

@wturkey - switches sound better up, bi-amped sounds expensive! Do you toe your Sigs in at all?

@jc4659 - phase OK, thanks

Okay the trial period will save your bacon!

If you keep the Legacy speakers you may need the

Wavelet to tune the room. +$7k AHHH!!

The Coda gear is excellent.

Personally I would have suggested you try a "Swarm" approach

to enhance the bass with any speakers you buy. Legacy is a pricey

option.

Why not go to Chicago in April and hear a lot of brands

at Axpona? 

Even my car stereo speakers sounded better after a few weeks of using them. Like your situation, the bass was rather weak at first. Same goes for my house speakers after I had new surrounds installed. Give 'em a chance.

@navyachts 

What variant is your CODA #8 biased to (V1, V2, or V3)? The rated amp output nearly doubles per variant. I don't think you should be wanting for bass with the nearly full-range capability of the speaker. The CODA's are pretty ballsy, also. 

I had a similar problem with the bass output of my Kef Reference 1 Metas powered by a Luxman 590AXII. Many suggested it was my room. I then bought a pair of McIntosh MC611s, and my bass output easily tripled! I could easily fool someone into thinking I was running a sub now. 

Unless your room is the size of a movie theater, this one is tough to figure out.

@jeffreyw  - very interesting. Coda is configured as a V1 as I was looking for as much class A as possible

@jeffseight - Gee, I wasn't looking for any subs really, the Swarm is four!

I will give it more time and try to figure out the room some how!

I would contact CODA and speak with Doug regarding your bass issues. He will set you straight. If necessary, the CODA can be easily biased at the factory to V3 to get more power. Keep us posted; this is an interesting issue!

@jeffreyw - that's great advice thank you I will do that tomorrow!

I'd suspect inferior fuses in the amps and if you've already changed those, you should *invest* in some Marigo Tuning Dots and a Shakti Stone. 

@mrskeptic - lol

Walk around the room.  Does bass get better, worse or doesn't matter.  A continuous tone is helpful.  I  have 20 and 30 hz only.  Also, it will take a few days, many people play new speakers continuously for a few days.

$640. Or double to 4x10” for $860. I took 2 of the 2-10s so I could place them in different spots.

Go right to the source.  Call Legacy — I imagine they have good customer support and could save you a boatload of time and stress. 

@soix thanks I will contact both Legacy & Coda tomorrow.

@daledeee1 - same

@nevada_matt - interesting, thanks 

You could try to add an equalizer, shiit loki seems like a great choice plus I think you get 15 days to return it. 

@ricmech23

+1, I would recommend a Martin Logan Unison pre-amp/streamer/dac with ARC room correction. ARC would make your speakers sing and integrate the bass with the room, you would be stunned. On sale now at like half off:

50% off at $199:

Add Furutech Rhodium plugs to one of you power cords if possible. you may want more ones you try them. That will help to boost bass. NCF ones are the best. 

I think you are muddling the quantity of bass with its quality.

Any fool can give you bags of booming bass for beans but quality down there at 20Hz costs real money and you will get huge speakers as well.

By the way, there is no musical instrument that goes down as low as 20Hz so down there you will be reproducing mostly noise.

Sealed vs ported plus room setup acoustics probably hold the key. The manufacturer can help you with room/speaker setup and ported vs sealed expectation.

For me, subwoofer setup was in itself instructive, because I wanted bass without noticing the addition, except when doing an A/B. If I were use to booming, less tight bass my requirements might have differed. Also, integration of subwoofers is likely easier with your floor standing speakers vs smaller speakers. I realize that exceptions exist, so you do have the option to add subs in the future. My speakers have a 3dB down point similar to your speakers and my RELs were easy to integrate once I treated the room.

+1 on speaker break in time. Also you might consider measuring your room with REW. It’s free and would help you evaluate your room. Good luck !

Guessing you’ll be advised by Legacy to give them some time. One option may be to aim them facing each other, connect out of phase and play some bass heavy content non stop for a few days at a reasonable volume. Hopefully in that manner the process won’t be too intrusive. 

@clearthinker The Octobass goes down to 16hz.

@dadork 

Thanks for that information.  I won't be needing the Octobass as there is no musical signal down there.

You might try it on the 60s and 70s EMI LPs of recordings at the Kingsway Hall London, where the trains running on the subway below can be heard rumbling.  Some carts give a reasonable level signal that low; eg Ortofon claims 20Hz for the Anna at only -1.5dB (I wonder....).  If that's right there may be some output at 16Hz but you are getting very close to the resonance zone, so make sure you're no just listening to resonance.  Anyway, if it all works, you will get a very accurate impression of a subway train, if that's your bag. 

I'd give them more break-in time and make sure the speaker cables are in-phase. Even if the red and black ends of the speaker cables look like the correct + and - hook-up experiment and see if it makes a difference.

Sealed boxes can have tighter and faster bass and generally require more power, but you already have it, so no amp issue here. Four 10inch woofers is quite a lot of area to push air and your speakers should extend well below 30hz.

All is in the positioning, speaker or listening, and room space. Break in time can help but i would not expect to be the limiting factor.

I bet solving the above will get you there. It takes effort.

@navyachts Can you provide the dimensions of your room including ceiling height? I agree with others on the sealed vs ported design. Especially if the Signature SE have more than 3-4’ feet around them without walls, the 22Hz sealed will not charge the room as much as a ported speaker at 30Hz, let alone a quality sealed sub that goes down to 16-19Hz which is placed right in the corners. But it should provide detailed, accurate bass. I am now a Legacy Audio installer and have a pair of custom Signatures shipping soon. In my 19x23 room with 18’ slanted ceilings, I plan to use them 3-4’ from the front walls with subs in the corners. 

You want Bass.... Hook up a Mcintosh Ma6450 to your speakers. This amp has 4 times the bass I've ever heard on any other amp. When I use it, I have to turn the bass almost all the way down. You will never have to say I don't have enough bass again. Oh, I doubt that you would want to get a sub with it too.

Those speakers are not short on bass.  Could be a room issue but more likely it is your personal taste, which I am not criticizing.  My point is you want more bass than all speakers  will provide.

Easier than a sub is an equalizer and that speaker has the horsepower to give you what you want.

Jerry

This thread is so long because of the lack of measurements.  I strongly recommend you get OmniMic or Room EQ Wizard and measure at your listening location.

Yes, the lack of room treatment can make the room sound far too bright, but it can also have bad room modes.

Look at the AM Acoustics room mode simulator and try to keep your speakers and listening chair out of the lowest modes.

I think I’ve found your culprit. These speakers have about 2 Ohms for most of the bass region. A 4 Ohm rating is significantly optimistic.

They will require strong amplifiers capable of driving such difficult loads.

Legacy Signature SE user for 6 years. All very good suggestions above, and they may work for you. Certainly it's too soon to judge before yours get 100+ hours of good workout.  I personally can't do without LOW bass, whereas the SE's are designed with a peak at 35Hz and a sharp rolloff below that. The "22Hz" rating presupposes optimal conditions which your room is unlikely to duplicate and is down many dB at that frequency anyhow. Subs did the trick for me, and they need NOT be pricy Legacys. Although placement certainly matters, with 3-4' from front wall being optimal for me, to my ears subs were still required. Legacy recommends running the SEs full range and setting the subs accordingly. I have followed that advice with satisfactory results.

I didn't except so many great responses, very informative and lots of good ideas, thank you!

I have reached out to the manufacturers and am awaiting their response.

@blisshifi - the room is 24' x 15' with a 12' vaulted ceiling (the long ways). Then there is a kitchen to the left of the speaker, so the room is L-shaped. Drapes cover the window to the left which run pretty well the whole length of the wall. The manual says 1 - 3 feet off the back wall, so being a multi-function room, it's pretty hard to get the speakers more than 1 foot out. They are 6 1/2' apart, slightly toed in and I sit about 9 feet away. So, there is 8' feet of space behind me.

The room does suck, but acoustic treatment are expensive and lack WAF. I'd hate to spend a bunch of money on them and still have a base problem, so I like the idea of a couple of small subs, or better yet the room correction suggestion.

@erik_squires - thanks Eric, for some reason when I click on the link you provide (as with some other links here) I don't get redirected. Any tips?

@steakster @daledeee1 - thanks, I will put on my walking shoes when I get home tonight!

@erik_squires - not sure why the link doesn’t work, but I did find the article by search. This is for the Legacy Focus SE which is the model above mine. 

It's true that the optimal place for your speakers is often not the optimal place to have good bass.The Amroc room calculator shows you instantly which bass frequencies are causing the problem. A couple of subs can be unobtrusive close to the wall in their optimal spots. One of my subs that can't be tucked away behind furniture has a cloth cover that blends with the wall.It's an option to think about anyway.

I would agree with @hickamore on the bass performance of the Signature SE and the benefit of using subs to supplement. I have previously owned both the Focus SE and Aeris. In both cases, while they let out big sound, they did not offer the benefits that quality, properly integrated subs do. I eventually moved away from the larger speakers and into better fitting speakers for the room accommodated by subs. Not only do the subs handle any missing bass information, but it also widens and deepens the soundstage and cleans up room modes and the full frequency spectrum, resulting in additional clarity and an improved performance across the board. Though I moved on from the Aeris being my speaker, I have since become a dealer and now am an official Legacy Audio installer. With that in mind, I have a custom pair of Signature SE coming for my floor in a week or two, as I realize it is more than enough to fill the space when properly integrated with subs, as demonstrated by a customer who traded in their Legacy Classic HD a few months back. Even that was enough in my room when partnered by two subs.

Measurements will also be very helpful, as is walking around the room as others suggest. But especially with the opening to the kitchen on the left side, subs and proper integration will be your best friend in this scenario.

Also, the problem is not with your amp, so disregard anyone who says so. The CODA No.8 is stable down to 2 ohms easily, and Legacy used to use CODA amps for their speakers prior to making their own with ICE modules.

@navyachts 

Yes break-in period might help but what you described about your room layout, it might be the culprit. I dont know if this possible in your situation but have you tried moving your system so the sound is projected into the kitchen? At the current position, do you have a third wall behind you?

@highend64 - it would be awesome to do what you suggest, but we bought this house because it has a view, putting the speaker in the window, might just not go over to well. I'm just going to have to figure this out. Thanks

@blisshifi - OK, I will start a new thread with some sub-woofer questions! Thx