McIntosh -- good for show, not for sound, says dealer

@hilde45 

I assume you’d agree that there is a difference between pointing out what is being said with agreeing or endorsing what is being said. You can see from the OP that I’m not endorsing.

I do agree with you that there is a difference. After reading that you weren’t endorsing his video I apologize for stating you posted this to stir the pot. 
 

I think it’s best that I stay in the music topic. 

@femoore12  Thank you for your post. If we're alike, sometimes we both read things quickly and respond quickly. I appreciate you following up.

I wonder what made him become such a hater🤔. I’ve owned a lot of amps in the past as I worked my way up to the level of McIntosh and the like. When I finally got there, I was NOT disappointed. Especially the versatility and sound of my C-2500 tube preamp. Amps can be traded and perfected but no one will beat that Mac Preamp for functionality and sound. As for Amps, I still Aim to trade up to their mono 601s some day or maybe even their 1201s. But to knock their sound, reliability and reputation really doesn’t make sense. Yeah, everyone has different tastes, but the difference in sound isn’t drastic at these costs, IMHO.

I've been powering B&W 702 signatures with a 20 year old 200 watt/channel McIntosh MC 202 solid state amp, and every time I think about updating the amp, I say to myself: "Why?  This amp sounds great and has the muscle to power to 702s as they deserve."  Someday, I'll have to get those blue lights fixed, but the MC 202 has really stood the test of time to my ears.

Could you elaborate on the Mac pieces you did not like?  What preamp are you now using?

Remember the old saw about working with a dealer who bashes another company's products.  As I read this I think of the usual "cranky old men talking about their stereos" crowd that could be doing other things like going to live shows, spending time with the family, learning a new skill like a musical instrument or getting some sun instead of carving up each other and the equipment.  Passion doesn't have to be bashin'.

@bigboypete Good on ya man. I ran a 202 for a decade. When you get it serviced there is i believe an effective LED light upgrade kit now, I replaced the burned out lights in mine, fairly easy to do if you are handy w soldering iron.

Enjoy the music !
Jim

Why does this video not have any 'Dislikes'? I would think with the number of negative reviews of his views, it would have more than 'zero'. Things that make you go, hmmm.

I just got my Achilles’ tendon replaced yesterday & I am in a lot of pain, but this Mac thread has brought me joy.  Thanks.  OCD guy is a ranter, but makes some good points.  I say Let him be… I think he is struggling to find a successful business model.  

@urbanwarrior69 ,

I am curious as to why this thread has brought much joy, kindly enlighten me.  

The negative replies are truly funny. I’m curious of what equipment they have tried. I’m definitely not loyal to any brand of equipment because I do consider myself an audiophile/ audio snob. If anyone is in the Southern California area and want to have a listen to my McIntosh MC2301 paired with Wilson Audio Maxx 2 speakers, Cary Audio SLP-05 preamp with the (Ultimate Upgrade, tube rolled, & Cardis wiring inside) and various high end source units to compare and contrast. I’m more than happy to reshape your mind and soul. At the end of the day, it is all about what you like or love and how you match equipment up with each other. Believe me, I’ve been down that road just like some of you trying to find the best matching equipment to give the best possible sound first and looks second. Ask my wife, she hates the look of my speakers but loves how it sounds.

Enjoy the Music! 

Regardless of my thoughts on McIntosh (I've never owned any of their gear), a dealer who insults a line of products he doesn't carry is a dealer who I would not waste one second of my time listening to.... 

@stereo5 there are several ways to answer your question. On the surface of it all I found peoples opinions to be rather one sided & fun to read, & there is nothing wrong with that. To go a bit deeper as to why I enjoyed this is to say I once took a law class in college years ago & our professor taught me something I have never forgotten & have found quite valuable. He once stated that a good lawyer can argue both sides of the law or case with the same amount of vigor no matter which side he or she believes is right, while most lawyers can only successfully argue the side in which they believe. For some reason that popped into my mind while going through the comments & I enjoyed analyzing peoples opinions in that light. It was good practice & insight.  I never went into law, in fact I’m an aircraft electrician by trade for 26 years now.  How did you sir enjoy this thread & why… & if I didn’t make sense during any part of this I apologize. I am on pain medication 💊 right now & lots of it… ☮️ 

@davidclarke

Great story - best post of the thread! Thank you so much for sharing. To my mind a system develops a personality over the years much like a treasured car or watch.

The more I listen to my C2300/MC275 through Magico A5’s the more I appreciate the world and time in which we live.

As Jerry was fond of saying, let’s have fun.

@sfseay 

In the end it has to be about the sound per dollar spent.

many people feel the way you do, but some don't - why do you state this like it is gospel?

enjoying the finer things in life has many facets, different people with different tastes and different means weight those differently - if one can have their cake and eat it too, then why not?  unless you have figured out a way to take your money with you ... 

@urbanwarrior69 ,

I am curious as to why this thread has brought much joy, kindly enlighten me.  

I'm guessing the pain meds...

@thecarpathian hey there, that could be the answer, but stereo5 asked the same question… see my response to the question there, thanks!

What he failed to see because he looks too young? When hi-fi was beginning McIntosh stomped the competition with sound and look. It is now become a tradition, like Cadillac used to be seen as the best car on the road.

And... the MC 275 is still a great sounding amp!  KT88's is all you need.

@urbanwarrior69 ,

thanks for the clarification, now it makes sense to me.  I know all about pain meds, I take 3 a day myself. Be well. 

@sfseay I really don't care for MacIntosh either. I prefer PCs. McIntosh on the other hand, I love! 

So much for the McIntosh critics who can't even spell it correctly.

Mikey is nothing but a used car salesmen. He only likes the brands that he sells. Once he looses the brand, he starts to crap on them. AGD for example. For many years he loved AGD, now looses the brand, and decides to put out a video comparing the JR125 to the AGD Tempo. Not on the fly comparsions like he normal does, but start and cut video with the speakers out of sight. I have nothing against JR as I'm sure it's great but to come out with this video right after he looses the line is suspicious. I purchased two pieces over the past few years from Mikey and was not happy both times. Never again.  

Wow! @hilde45 , you really got everyone to come out today!!!

Since we are all voicing our opinions....here's mine.

I don't see many absolutes here.  First, is McIntosh great gear? Yes. Have they had some flops? Yes.  But the brand, the build, the effort, the commitment, service, resale, and yes the sound are great (usually).  

McIntosh is a special brand.  If someone doesn't like it, for any reason, that's cool.  Vote with your pocketbook.  

With respect to OCD Mikey,  I actually like the guy.  I'm not saying he's right or he's awesome.  I just think he reminds me of someone passionate about his hobby who is spouting off a bit.  I wouldn't mind having a beer with someone like him just to hear the passion.  If you love food, watches, cars, hifi, talking about it is a piece of the passion.  

But then again, I've sort of lost the taste for judging humans much these days.

Now, I've never owned a piece of McIntosh gear (but I've been around piles of it in my life). This thread makes me want to order up a nice little Mac amp and get one in my room!!!  

Boy, I'm susceptible to things.....  

Person A-- I hate pretty cake. Those pretty cakes are stupid. It should be about the taste only.

Me-- Hmmmm... I wasn't even thinking about pretty cake, let alone cake today....I want to have some pretty cake now!!

:)

PS. I once heard five figures of Mac gear driving Sonus Faber Olympicas.  Then the store clerk swapped in some top end Rotel gear.  Oh my, I just so happened to like that pairing better.  Still, I'm thinking I should get some Mac gear in here!

Great thread.   

How can anybody have a problem with an American made product that is 75 years old? 150 hard working folks build some great stuff for us to enjoy. What’s not to like ?. Oh btw, Mikey needs some professional grade help.

Yeah I have 2 pieces of Macintosh equipment. That I bought used .But i only can afford a Honda Civic. But that Civic is now $25,000 lol....

Haters are going to hate (so are the jealous who can’t afford Mac).  
Mcintosh have a strong sound through a decent speaker.  

Another McIntosh thread 🤣. Pretty much similar to a cable thread. Gets old but bottom line you like Mac or you don’t. Most haven’t either heard Mac or properly matched. However, if you don’t like the sound move on. Pretty simple, but I can think the same about an amp another audiophile raves over. Why trash or make disparaging remarks? Overall, McIntosh isn’t overpriced when you compare it to higher end gear that doesn’t sound much better. It actually is quite the bargain. There’s a very interesting YouTube review of the McIntosh MC452. He does a fantastic but fair assessment that made me realize what a great amp it is. Not everyone will agree but made me realize performance per dollar is quite high.

Well I have many pieces a d from ma y of the top end. Brands I have Krell mark Levinson,Ayre,audio research, sonic frontier, transparent,canary,harbeth,neat,and equation. But among my stereo pieces I have two McIntosh tuners. I love them and I find them fun to listen to. I have an mr71 and a mr73. In many ways and I feel like I should duck after I say this but I prefer the mr73. It maybe just plays better with the rest of the equipment in that system. I have a solid state system with an all tube front end. And I have a tube system with a solid state from end. I enjoyed the mix of the two. I really don't care what anyone thinks of my system or the other system. They have been thought out and pieces auditioned and I liked what I bought and how it sounds in each case. So if that fellow doesn't like McIntosh so be it. I love both of my tuners and in my opinion I have never heard better and I have no need to change either one of them no matter what anyone says. In fact the main problem up here is the FM stations have gone down hill big-time. I  happy with my decision s and if I decide I want a little bit more I will go looking yet there is no yen to do that at the moment. 

Regards Tom

I know much of this thread and speaking of McIntosh sound, the conversations are mostly centered around their Amps. What  about their preamps?

How do people feel newer preamps like the C52 and C53 stack up?

Perhaps because I'm old school, I like that there is some onboard sound shaping provided.  Or is that a monkey wrench with added garbage in the audio path?

I imagine there's some number of ways to look at it.

"It’s about bashing people that own McIntosh gear." Well this has to be one of the silliest comments I have come across in any fora. It is about saying that McIntosh gear does not appeal to many people because some of us believe it does not sound that good and is not value for money. End of story.

I started with Kenwood, Realistic, Yamaha. Onkyo, and Marantz ....with cheap Bose or Advent speakers.

Then I graduated to a Luxman 505 UxII and some Epos Elan speakers. The sound was not all that much superior.

I then decluttered my room and treated with GIK products.

Quite a vast change and likely the biggest improvement.

However I since have went tube gear with McIntosh C2500 and MC75 monoblocks---mated to Sonus Faber Oly 1s. I also changed my streaming products from a Node 2i to a sonore rendu, Small Green Machine Roon device and a Mytek DAC+.

Nearly everything has made an improvement. But the Luxman I still have as a backup. I will say I FAR prefer my McGear to the Luxman.

I checked out that guy’s "store". Yeah he states buyers need to convince him to sell to them. Yeah right---I did not see one thing in his place I’d want. I checked out his super room vid too. Well I’ll just say I don’t care for this Jay either that he says states his system is the best ever---much prefer the Jay that used to work with Adrian and Villup.

So far I seem to be the only thumbs down on his most recent you tubes.

LIkely wont be visiting his channel in the future,

Im not a huge fan of dealman or ask paul or darko either but these guys are saints compared to this dude, jay labs, the SR magic props Denby (whatever his nam eis--who cares) guy, and the audio circle guy (ASR-Amir?) that hates just about everything. Frankly, IMO, we need more Audiofiliac and Gene Della Sala types.

All ya gotta do is look at those toobs and transfoormers and ooo la la, you know it's gonna be just fine.

Having owned many pieces of McIntosh equipment, including a pair of the very first 1201 amps to roll out of Binghamton, it’s a certain sound.  It’s warm and laidback to me. Here’s the deal, it’s beautiful to look at and it sounds lush and warm, the equipment wasn’t made for just plain old you.  What sounds good to you might not sound good to someone else.  I prefer fast, forward, and bright equipment, that’s because my hearing is just that, mine   McIntosh didn’t design their equipment around me.  

 Hey.. It's one guy's opinion. I had a McIntosh amp and preamp for 25 years that sadly didn't survive the Harvey flood and I wish I still had them.

Hello!

Could not resist getting into this discussion. I was hired by MAC in 1968 to come and design tuners. MR77, MR78 and part of MR74 are mine. My current audio system is all MAC using all-tube circuitry. System finished in 1988, after I had left MAC in 1974 to do speakers.

(1) 2-box 8 tube preamp borrowing from Marantz 7 and MAC C22.

(2) 50WPC triode power amp with MAC output transformers

(3) Yes, a TUBE MR78!

(4) Usual turntable and CD player.

(5) Joseph Pearl loudspeakers

I do not judge audiophile hobby to deeply. Life is short and no time to indulge in uninformed opinions and trash talk. There is enough good stuff from others than MAC to satisfy any well-informed listener. Please check my article published in December 2021 issue of Audioxpress for more ideas regarding good sound.

My reference for sound are two seats for wife and myself at the Symphony. There is no argument for best sound, real live music, which cannot be duplicated by any audio system.

jjss49,

Just so you know that I have been properly deputized, here's my badge...

 Amazon.com: Grammar Police Lapel Pin : Clothing, Shoes & Jewelry

Of the multiple systems in my home, two are currently comprised predominantly or exclusively of McIntosh components. I love the Mac stuff for what it is and what it does! In my office I have a C 2300 preamplifier driving a 275 Mark six amplifier. The sound is lovely with several pair of speakers that I have on hand. At first I did not like the green LEDs on the tubes, but they have grown on me.  In my  finished basement, I have a 452 amplifier with a C 50 preamplifier.  I also have the 550 SACD/CD player in that system as well. Another system in the basement features a BHK 250 amplifier with an audia flight preamplifier and esoteric SA50 disc player. Available speakers are KEF Blade twos and Paradigm signature S6V3. I would not characterize the BHK or 452 as better or worse. Both provide outstanding results, but they are different. The BHK is more delicate/subtle. There may be a larger window into subtle details. Both amplifiers do a phenomenal job and I enjoy them both immensely.

my belief is that Macintosh makes outstanding equipment. At one time I considered it to be expensive and overpriced, but no longer. There are so many brands which cost many times what Macintosh is charging these days. After going to their factory tour I understand the cost involved in producing their equipment and providing the excellent service that they are known for. Is McIntosh the be-all/end-all? Probably not but they produce wonderful gear at a fair price. I have owned many brands and would put Mac up there with the best of them.

I started out with Mac solid state gear in the late 70's (2205 amp and C28 pre).  It was fine for it's time and there wasn't as many choices as today.  Used if for 20 years and sold it for what I paid for it.  I haven't listened to any of the current offerings and moved in another direction after my Mac gear.

@roxy54

hey -- you've done good -- i see you taught one laoman to spell... 🤣👍

@rimo

thank you for your post... useful historical perspective, reminders about respect, enjoyment, how short life is, real music, the power of positivity

@ rimo

Way back in 2002 I purchased an MR-71 FM tube tuner from Audio Classics that was performance certified by you. It continues to work flawlessly to this day and is easily one of the most satisfying audio-related purchases I have ever made.

Thank you for your brilliant contributions to modern FM tuner performance.   

I recently purchased an Audio by Van Alstine VISION SET 400 AMPLIFIER for two grand that sounds better than the two solid-state Mac's I've owned previously. Two thousand dollars is a fraction of the cost of these Mac's. Yes, it's a utilitarian black box, no meters and doesn't need a hand truck to bring into your sound room, but it sounds more like music to my ears for a fraction of the price.

Now, on the other side, I have a  MAC MC-275 IV that is magical in the way tube amps can be. I wouldn't part with it unless I was being held hostage at gunpoint, and to be honest I might not let it go and take the bullet. Now of course that's blatant bullshit, however I might die for Angie Harman, but I digress.  It gets to the point of how good a MAC 275 sounds but not their solid state for lots of money.

jjss49, as English is my second language, I am curious to see how you would spell in Lao. Thai, French and German, in all of which I am completely fluent. Do you even speak another language?