McIntosh -- good for show, not for sound, says dealer

They're junk. I hear they'll be out of business soon. I mean, c'mon. They've been making stuff since 1949 and clearly have no idea what they're doing and almost no one likes their equipment or buys anything they make. 

(That's heavy sarcasm for they humor impaired. Why anyone would listen to one word that yahoo says is beyond me)

Everybody his sound ! I don’t like McIntosh , and isn’t for me “the Rolex” of the amps.: than I will give it to VAC. : Is more natural,  detailfull and the sound is very 3-D. Mc is a “cliche” : used with Sonus Faber , and B&W : hi-fi :okay ! No high-end ! ( but like I said: everybody his sound and equipment)

All the tubes are lower class, transistor is much better.

Not all Mac amps are autoformer coupled. They have several SS integrated amps and a monoblock that are direct coupled and use 12AX7s as input buffers. And don’t go saying the stuff is overpriced. A lot of audio gear is as costly or more.  Sure it’s not budget hear but it is well built, lasts, and yes holds its value. Their weakness is in the streaming arena. Since joining the Sonus Faber family even the speakers have taken a turn for the better. Their turntables are by Clearaudio. I don’t own any, but I am the original audio cheapskate by choice. 

Bless you oldhvymec!

I do not hate Macintosh. It is your money; if you want to spend your money on Macintosh, go right ahead. Personally I would never buy anything from Macintosh because in my opinion there is far better sounding and better built equipment available for far less money.

However Macintosh does appeal to a certain demographic; my friends and I call it the Harley Davidson of hi fi.

Macintosh did have worth back in a day and certainly was well marketed, that was then. Open one up,,, there is a lot better out there. Can only live off your name for so long. 

@vuch I agree that Mike is very helpful. Yes. For some he can be an acquired taste. I don’t have any experience with McIntosh yet.  So I can’t comment on his comments about Mac. But I do disagree with what he said about Magico. They are some of the best speakers I have ever heard. I also have a pair of A3s. I do think they sound good. They are very truthful speakers. Because I am a gear hound (isn’t everyone here?) I have supplemented them with a pair of REL T/9i subs and a pair of Aperion AMT super tweeters. Not because the Magico tweeter is bad. Just that I was curious about what they would do. I liked them. So I kept them. I think the big advantage of having the subs and super tweeters is that you have more options as to how you want to adjust your soundstage with toeing in or front firing the sub, super tweeters and or the Magicos. But Mike also makes nice inexpensive things like his silver Maggies upgrade kit on the 1.7is that I used to own. Lastly, he does rep Jeff Rowland and I got a good deal on a pair of Model 125s. I am happy and in process of breaking them in. Like everyone, sometimes folks say things you don’t agree with. But that doesn’t nullify all the other positive things he has said or done. Just pick and choose what you want to listen to from Mike just like anyone else inside or outside of audio. 

Made me chuckle Rolex, Macintosh in the same breath. I have and do like Rolex watches, there IS something in common with Macintosh. They look good but you can get far better and in the case of the Rolex a $500 electronic watch keeps better time…..

Cheers

Holy crap, Mac is exactly like Rolex!!!

Both duly well-respected premium brands but no longer considered at the very top. 

I've never owned Mac, but would probably go for vintage Mac down the road. I still love everything about the McIntosh brand. They certainly don't make things like they used to but they sound good and are dripping with style.

It’s hillarious all these audiophile keyboard warriors bashing "Macintosh". I didn’t know this thread was about Apple computers. If you’re going to cut something down, at least learn how to spell it.

@hilde45

if the discussion is about mcintosh’s recent/modern gear, i think a fair summary is it is very good looking and very good sounding gear - of course, different audiophiles may/will have preferences for or against mcintosh’s house sound -- which is somewhat warm and romantic with good bass foundation (this more prominent in its lower to middle ranges... transparency is quite good in their top tier stuff)

of course, you are paying for having both the good sound and sexy looks

there are brands that may sound subtly better, certainly many that offer more value... but for all premium, luxury gear, which mcintosh is today, it delivers to make their customers pretty darned happy

separate point, mikey ocd is a long time audiophile, has strong opinions, is a blowhard when it comes to presenting them, even if some are right (but then again alot of what he says is really wrong), his opinions are also problematic because he is commercially conflicted on many levels

so as with anyone spouting breathlessly on youtube, he may have a narrow fan base, but most viewers with brains and judgement take his schtick with major grains of salt

for really good info on macintosh, pls refer to audio excellence canada - they post numerous vids on youtube also... sometimes meandering in their lead-ins, but stick to it, excellent info and listening impressions on macintosh gear, driving top flight speakers, fed by top flight sources, properly set up -- now they carry mcintosh as major dealers in toronto, but they also directly compare against meaningful competing gear (which they also carry)... and it is my feeling they are quite honest and balanced in what they report... adrian and vilip are real pros, high integrity, greater intellectual honesty, successful too as a business ...

Outside of the US, McIntosh are a known brand but there is no large fanbase. Generally, if one of their products is good, people will buy it but I've never seen the "wall of McIntosh" installations.

At any one time, a vendor may have a brilliant DAC in their line-up but a weak preamp. In 5 year's time it may be the other way round. I don't know why people don't pick the best sounding product rather than buying everything from one brand. I've never owned more than one product at a time from a vendor.

Drop a large rock into a large fishbowl and watch the fish go frenzy...;)

Yup, Macs'/Rolex is 'bout right.  But that makes anything 'new' like the latest digi- wrist thing or cell...."Hot" with a tag to match, 'till it's not.

...of course, there's exceptional exceptions.

There's a lot between gold and crap.

I suppose D'Agostino is the Breguet of audio then. Watch/audio comparisons are utterly fatuous. In the context of this thread and the references to Fine Sounds, the Rolex comparison is particularly inaccurate seeing as Rolex is one of the few Swiss watch companies which is independent and not owned by a luxury goods conglomerate.

Over priced!!? Take a look at Boulder, Ayre,  Jeff Rowland,  

Mark Levinson,  Bryston,  AR, Gryphon. My 8900 

was half the price ot the Mark Levinson 585 5 

Have you listened to Mark Levinson?  Just saying

. So what are the recommendations./alternatives.  Haven't seen

any mention.  It's an acquired taste. I like Killians. 

Instead of Rolex or Harley Davidson, why not compare McIntosh to Lexus.

Like Lexus, McIntosh has:

1. Excellent longevity and good looks.

2. Top Tier resale value and brand recognition.

3. Competitive performance in each segment.

4. One of the highest rated customer satisfaction and ownership experiences.

5. Owners either trade for another Lexus, or keep it in the family and buy another.

I've noticed in the previous posts that if a McIntosh owner shares their likes, it's detailed and specific including models and supporting thoughts. However, the critics don't offer "the why" details to support their position other than generic blanket statements with no proof of ownership other than owned and didn't like, moved on, etc. Not that their position is not valid, but where's the what and why that we would like to read and learn about?

I've owned Jolida, Conrad Johnson, Hegel,  Cary Audio, and now I own a Mac MA5300. I do not regret it at all. I saw a comment about KEF's. I had a pricey pair of KEF Reference speakers that I lived with for a few years. They were pretty good but lacked in transparency. Some of the more recent offerings I thought were much worse (driven by Hegel H80). Lets keep it simple. To each his own.

Well I've had mac gear in the past, I also think it's just okay. Certainly not my cup of tea. But honestly I think it looks worse than it sounds. Never liked it's looks. But you can get this gear used all the time for really good prices.

Mikey has already helped me with getting my system to sound better with my current amp. I’m upgrading my amp and preamp, going with NAT Audio gear from him. He brings tremendous value and only cares about helping people get the best sonics as they can. Anybody that can’t appreciate that has issues with hurt feelings.

Glad you’re having a good experience.

As I see it, he’s made a very broad brush distinction between "people who just care who audio looks" with "the real audiophiles who care about sound."

We can all agree that’s a fair distinction. But his next move is to start herding people into the camp of looks (effectively calling them non-audiophiles) by dint of brand association. It becomes an "us" vs. "them" strategy that names names. That kind of tribalism -- he calls his fans/customers a "tribe" -- is reminiscent of the worst instincts we have. It turns us against one another in politics, religion, orientation, and more. Don’t we have enough of that?

He could have argued the "looks only" vs. "quality-sound" distinction without naming brands. He could have said, "listen for this" or "check these specs or build," etc. But instead, he went after a bunch of companies which make good products. Are all of them 100%, consistently, good? Probably not. (Is every Mercedes a winner?) Are all of them fairly priced? Kinda up to the buyer to decide that.

As someone above pointed out (I think), this seems desperate. It’s the YouTube version of a giant "Sale!" sign in his shop. He needs customers and he has a schtick -- the "Come to me -- I’ll hook you up with the *really* good stuff." Or, "Are you done worshipping false gods? Because I have a line on the Real Deal." He has set himself up as the authority above and beyond all influence, all marketing, all folderol. But then you realize -- he's just another seller, promising to be on your side, a "man of peace," to quote Dylan.

Give me any basically good amplifier and i will make it sound more than good...

How?

With acoustic treatment with passive materials and especially with mechanical acoustical controls...

Then bashing or celebrating a piece of gear means lttle at the end... Like the speakers, no amplifier sound the same in different room...

All amplifiers has different flavor sound for sure, but this flavor is not so much compared to the acoustic increase of their working in the acoustical environment tailor made for their speakers link in a specific room...

Bashing other gear or celebrating the gear we love is human but it is not serious audio experience...

i myself love my Sansui so what?

The most important thing is the system /room relation and this relation is always very specific andoptimized for the system and the ears of the owner...

Audiophile are ignorant focussing on the gear price tag or particularities that exist but at the end that are secondary...

i never listen McIntosh...

People who has never listened to their system in a controlled room cannot know his peak working potential S.Q.

@mahgister Right on cue! LOL! Love it.

However, once the room is optimized, then it does come down to the gear. As we've agreed on another thread -- two equally good rooms (equally optimized) will be different if the gear is different. 

Many people don't know or do enough about their room acoustics. The room is a system of acoustics and perception. But the gear is part of the system, and just as neglect of the room leads to worse acoustics, worse gear does, too, because it's all part of the system. So that leads back to gear. 

Thanks hilde for your kind words...

But remember something important also about what i called mechanical equalization... Which is different than the room treatment only...

Here the mechanical TUNING add something no room treatment is able to do alone, it bent the room to what the system is asking for, for your specific ears...

It is this ignorance about the complexities of acoustic that made people FOCUS on upgrade and piece of gear mainly to improve their experience...

Alas! Like i said the greatest solution is a dedicated room not a new amplifier if the amplifier you already own is basically good...

Then first you choose your flavored prefered system in a treated room...

Second you bent the room for it with mechanical equalization and guess what ? the S.Q. is over the roof for your ears with this system...

there is difference between any system but not so powerful to compared with an acoustic settings designed for his optimal working...

Here we speak of gear plenty of people answer...

In my new thread about acoustic almost no answer ...

Why?

Because acoustic is complex matter and it is more easy to buy gear....

You are right about some gear being not very good to begin with...

But most quality gear are basically good.... It is a taste question more than objective quality....

Then kNowing that the gear is secondary to acoustiic...

“In my new thread about acoustic almost no answer ...Why?”

@mahgister

You need to know your audience..does that ring a bell? Most folks here can’t rival or afford your level of dedication to room acoustics. I mean just look at your room, it should be a national treasure. There is something other worldly about the room and your exquisite work, have you contacted Guinness World Records?

@kingbarbuda, word.

@hilde45, Mikey doesn't script his videos. He doesn't monetize them either. He knows he's out there and is an acquired taste. I mean he calls himself OCD HiFi guy and makes fun of himself.

One thing that comes across very strongly is his passion for sonics. That's backed up by the system he's put together and his listening room. Geez, he converted his garage into a listening room! That's commitment! 

His passion extends to calling out iconic brands he feels once had amazing gear but have sold out to corporations that take the good name of a brand and start to sell gear designed to increase profits instead of staying true to quality made gear. He's been in the industry a long time and looks inside the box to see what kind of quality goes into a component. That's exactly what Kevin Deal does but Kevin dances around and gives hints on what brands he's talking about.

I think his beef with Magico is that they're very expensive. I know he said that he thinks they're made to look pretty. I didn't buy the A3's for looks. I thought my old Infinity RS4b's were a much better looking speaker. I bought the A3's for sonics.

Turning people against one another is one way of looking at what he says. I look at it like that's his opinion. Saying he's turning people against one another feeds into permanent disagreement and division. That's your opinion of what's happening, it doesn't make it true. I'm not willing to cancel him for his opinion or claim he's dividing people. Accepting that other people have differing opinions is how society can become healthier. Not accepting other peoples opinions and claiming they are divisive and flat out wrong is what's wrong with our society today and it seems to be getting worse. 

I have many good friends on the opposite side of the political and religious isle because I recognize that their opinions are different from mine but I still value their friendship because we have other passions that align. We just have to be respectful of each others strongly held opinions. When that happens everyone can get along and share the good information that each of us has.

It was not a lament of my part here... just an example to reveal that gear interest people not complex acoustic...

I used to have almost no answer in my thread :)

It is better that way....

Nobody has see my room the photos in my virtual page are years old already...It is way much more mad... It is an acoustic laboratory for me... I dont give a dam for esthetic i dont want to give one bucks first, sceond i want to created myself my own devices... They dont exist in the market anyway.... Acoustic is way more complex than what those who sell panels say it is...

It is the reason why i learned that acoustic matter way more than any relatively good piece of gear ,even if their sound colore and flavor are all different...Mc Intosh, Sansui or any relatively good amplifier will do even if i love my Sansui...A

Acoustic is not about flavor but about complete recreation of all acoustic characteristc of perceived sound....

Someone who own a dedicated controlled room dont want to upgrade....i will not.... Even if i know that my dream Amplifier will be better than my Sansui : Berning ZOTL...My ratio S.Q./price is already optimal ....

Then people must pick the amplifier they like and after that go into acoustic... Bashing other amplifier they dont like is children play... Especially when most people have never listen to their own system really and dont know his peak working  potential because their living  room is at best simply treated with few panels and in most case not even treated... Then with a non mechanically controlled room the system and the room dont play together at all synergetically FOR YOUR SPECIFIC EARS....

“In my new thread about acoustic almost no answer ...Why?”

@mahgister

You need to know your audience..does that ring a bell? Most folks here can’t rival or afford your level of dedication to room acoustics. I mean just look at your room, it should be a national treasure. There is something other worldly about the room and your exquisite work, have you contacted Guinness World Records?

I rarely post about my system because it is McIntosh and on this forum there are so many McIntosh bashers it is not worth the abuse. Hopefully we have bashed McIntosh enough for 2022. 

It also comes down to personal choice also.

My room is optimized and I have owned several modern McIntosh integrated sand sold them, just was not for me from a sound or esthetic point.

The amps were well built just not my cup of tea.

Now comparing the brand to a Lexus I can see, predictable, sterile, and stable. Like a Honda motorcycle.
 

But it is still a great American Iconic Brand as is HD, Chevy, Cadillac, Cat and Boeing. 

Mac stuff is really pretty.  So was the Sequerra Tuner and the Transcriptor TT.

Levinson stuff is also pretty, and it is hard to beat Bang and Olufsen for looks.

Of course if you want to reproduce recorded music accurately, there are pretty much unlimited other choices, but hey, if looks is your thing and not music, well, go for it!

Cheers!

Turning people against one another is one way of looking at what he says. I look at it like that's his opinion. Saying he's turning people against one another feeds into permanent disagreement and division. That's your opinion of what's happening, it doesn't make it true. 

@vuch 

Point taken. So, it is my *argument* (not "opinion") that he is name-bashing in the video. He is over-generalizing in the video. It is an old "David vs. Goliath" trope. You buy it. I don't. You're working with him, I'm not. 

I don't own any of the gear he bashes. I don't work with him. I have no dog in this fight, but I see what he's up to. It's pretty obvious.

Oh, and I'm not "canceling" him. I'm calling him out for *what he actually says.* The charge of cancellation smacks of desperation when when it's used to sub in for a counterargument.

Reproduced sound is always a subjective matter of the listener and I don’t think Mikey gets that. I believe Mikey is more of a Mac hater than an audiophile. Don’t really share his views which is fine but Mikey really lost his credibility when you said you can buy a Mac for a 40% discount. Please post where, because I’m a buyer! The truth is McIntosh holds their resale value more than another brand and actually you’d be hard pressed to find a Mac at a 40% discount used. So judging from the masses I know there’s always going to be someone trying to knock off the king of the hill off the top or whatever reason but your reasoning borders on lame without any evidence except your thoughts. BTW I don’t really care what a Mac looks like but I don’t need a candle with my tube glow!

I haven’t done a lot of serious listening McIntosh equipment. I did recently seriously audition the MA252 integrated. Worked great with a pair of Sonus Fabers. Not good at all with a pair of Harbechs. Okay with mine. My take, though, is that it was overpriced for the sound. But you get good, US service, and that's part of the price. 

A lot of this is about equipment matching. 

I have a pair of Mac 611 monoblocks driving B&W 802D's that sound wonderful.  They replaced eight parallel-series connected Harmon Kardon Citation II tube amps that output over 500 watts/channel at 0,1% THD into those same 'speakers.

Sound was excellent from the tube amps, too, but replacing $45 output tubes and 2.5 kW power consumption, not to mention lugging a 60-pound tube amp upstairs to my test bench at my age after every replacement necessitated the change.

I purchased a McIntosh MA 6100 in 1978. I’m still using it in a third system in my record storage room. It sounds great.  I also bought a previously owned MA 6900 in 2007 from Audio Classics in Vestal NY.  It is a full featured integrated that keeps me smiling. A month ago the 6900 went into protection mode and stayed there.  Ryan at Audio Classics made a diagnosis over the phone saying that McIntosh would replace the capacitor in question free of charge.  It took a few days for them to get the part from McIntosh. I made an appointment  and they repaired the unit that day.  They also replaced all the light bulbs for a small fee.  I believe that is exceptional customer service from Audio Classics and McIntosh. I tried to arrange a visit to McIntosh but apparently they are not conducting tours during the pandemic.  What’s not to like.  Wish I also had a vintage McIntosh tube amp.

Mac looks beautiful, but the house sound, especially for their SS gear, is not accurate to my ears. I have never understood the devotion frankly. I remember the first time I heard the 2105 amplifier in the mid 70’s while shopping for an amp. I thought the bass was bloated and ill defined, the highs edgy, and the overall sound thin with a flat sense of space. Remains to this day the worst sounding high end amp I ever heard. That sound has continuously continued- bloated bass, thin presentation, poor sense of depth- ever sense. It’s the autoformers I guess. 

But his next move is to start herding people into the camp of looks (effectively calling them non-audiophiles) by dint of brand association. It becomes an "us" vs. "them" strategy that names names. That kind of tribalism -- he calls his fans/customers a "tribe" -- is reminiscent of the worst instincts we have. It turns us against one another in politics, religion, orientation, and more. Don’t we have enough of that?

@hilde45, I apologize for using the "C" word! That's where my mind went after reading your comment. 

Regarding desperation, that's a state of mind that I wouldn't wish on anyone. I've been there many times in life before. My way to combat those feelings is to try to and be grateful and embrace humility. 

I think the real problem here is that Mikey is losing income every month because he's a Jeff Roland dealer and Not a McIntosh dealer. The beautiful and lush MAC 352 @$6500 US is a sweet spot in the MAC line.....Much more attractive and better overall sounding with it's tube pre and SS amp. And it's a beautiful piece of equipment. To each his own but bashing another brand when you represent a direct competitor is not a smart thing to do. Most on this thread see thru the "veil".

Blanket statements pro and con miss more relevant points, such as "not all Mc is created equal". Their legacy tube designs are beautifully made, and typically warm (someone said "wet blanket") :-)  Its rarely state of the art, but it is solid, backed by a solid company, etc.

Some of their newer designs, including the SS ones and hybrids, are, IMO, quite inferior. for DACs, well, its not their thing (again IMO, YMMV).

All products are trade-offs.

I recently demoed McIntosh + Wilson Alexia, vs Rockport + Gryphon Diablo, vs  SF Olympia III + Musical Fidelity.

To my ears, the McIntosh + Wilson combo was the least appealing.

That said the McIntosh amps were the only amplifiers prominently displayed. 

He better not mess with my JBL 4350's. 

Of course if you want to reproduce recorded music accurately, there are pretty much unlimited other choices, but hey, if looks is your thing and not music, well, go for it!

Cheers!

Congrats richopp, another stupid post...

Mac amps tend to have low damping so speakers that need alot of damping might not sound good. All about component matching. My mc462 sounds fantastic on my tektons... let the haters begin. LOL.

@itsjustme..You say.."Blanket statements miss more relevant points" and follow it up with "Some of their newer designs are inferior".....a blanket statement.

come on, guys...some of you object to specs/measurements, saying what is important is the sound.  Others of you object to individuals subjective opinion of sound when it doesnt agree with yours...it seems to me Mike has expressed HIS OPINION, and repeatedly says it is his opinion, can we not just leave it at that?  I kinda like the guy, as he doesnt come off as some snooty dude who is rich....BUT his opinion is his opinion, no more than that...he does bring up some valid points about the visual impact of certain brands, and I do agree with some of that....

McIntosh has arguably the best brand in Audio. Decades of quality products (a few turds), great service, and a unique style. Is it state of the art? No, but that's not what they're trying to do.

You can argue that you don't like the sound of McIntosh gear. "House Sound" and all that. Some people like it, some don't.

You cannot argue that McIntosh gear is expensive. That's just shortsighted foolishness. The biggest cost of this hobby is the cost of depreciation. As a rule, electronics depreciate exceptionally fast. As long as you take care of it, you are risking very very little when you buy Mc gear, especially if you buy used. Every piece of Mc gear I have bought was essentially "free", I bought it, enjoyed it for a number of years and quickly sold it for what I paid or more.

@vuch  I agree. Peace.

Like others reading this thread, I don’t post very often. But since I’m using an MC352 to drive Quad ESL63s, I’ll say that my rig sounds amazing to me (and others who hear it). The Mac, to my ears, doesn’t sound like anything. It’s like looking into a pool of clear water. The goal for my rig is to sound like nothing at all. This is the closest I’ve ever gotten. Will grant that maybe I don’t have the depth of experience with other brands (or budget) of others on this forum. 

Got a good deal on my Mac used, but still paid a premium for it. But that’s what branding is all about, right?  It looks good, but I think ALL audio gear looks cool. 
 

… and to the guy with JBL 4350s, Cool!  I listened to a pair of 4330s for a long time…