McIntosh -- good for show, not for sound, says dealer

keep em on the straight n narrow @roxy54 !!!!  🤣

@schw06

excellent post, many good points made

good reminder there are many experienced thoughtful members who usually stay silent, turned off by the pointless, garbage posts that seem to dominate the activity here these days...

in this case, very glad @schw06 chose to contribute his thoughts

@hilde45

Your promise to be polite but in your invitation is already a veiled insult ("what you think you know"). No, you’ve already proved your ability to be abusive. You can make another video -- calling this "the yellow" site and calling folks here "hens" etc. No, your invitation to name-call and abuse on Zoom is politely declined.

fair point -- we should be reminded that words are cheap

many checks are written with words that cannot be cashed with actions

like the wife beater who says honey can i come home, i’ll be different this time

utter lack of self awareness is often one's greatest weakness, and source of one's undoing

It is all Business $$$$$$. Wake up people.

without a doubt, but it isn’t just ALL about business... it’s also about envy, jealousy, misplaced need for self gratification thru lame ego-boosting, make self feel better by tearing others down

internet forums like this are ’potshot heaven’ for all sorts of sad characters

that ocd guy is presenting himself as the champion of those who just want pure sonic performance and not looks, frills, eye candy, i’d remind everyone that his main line of amplification is mark levinson... now THAT is truly dripping in irony (if not something much worse)...

i have been reminded/corrected... meant jeff rowland, not levinson...

i know @hilde45 personally, know him outside of this forum

i’m pretty sure he doesn’t have an opinion on mac gear from personal ownership or use, his op was to question the broader point which he just restated - as a high level educator professionally and a burgeoning hifi nerd personally, he is learning about this hobby, the people, the perspectives and attitudes they hold

i also don’t have a personal opinion on mac gear based on recent personal ownership, i haven’t owned a piece for quite some time, the brand, like all good brands, develop new products and move on, advance the gear, functionally, cosmetically and sonically to sustain success - but i know enough from 40 years dedicated to this pursuit where the brand and its products stand in the industry, with customers, and so on

as for mr ocd guy, i would hope that with (or in spite of) his disposition, business practices, commercial decisions on what he carries, and how he markets himself, that he has SOME following... the guy is trying to make a living, dunno how well he is doing at it -- as for the foundational premise @hilde45 is addressing with this thread, that ocd guy is presenting himself as the champion of those who just want pure sonic performance and not looks, frills, eye candy, i’d remind everyone that his main line of amplification is mark levinson... now THAT is truly dripping in irony (if not something much worse)...

as a useful contrast, another industry dealer is audio excellence in canada... for those who don’t know of adrian, vilip et al, i suggest you watch the following videos and others they post on youtube... to me, they are a model of class, likeability, earnestness, as well as deep knowledge (and successful salesmanship)... yes they meander a bit in their discussion, as most enthusiasts do, but i feel their content is always worth watching... to me they are a better, an alternative, and a much more successful way of handling well, just about everything...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nB4N_dfqAo

i made the post below a few days ago on the thread that was started showing ocd hifi guy’s video about 1% etc etc... shortly after i made this post, the thread was deleted -- i don’t know if it was my particular post, or the comments made by others, that led to the thread deletion

i have been asked to repost my experience by those who saw it the other day... and thus i do so here

i make no further commentary, but wanted to share the experience i had, trying to make a small purchase

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

a month ago i got a set of maggie 1.7i’s... really enjoying them... read about the rear fuse bypass etc etc, figured i would try that, so i find this fellow’s site, with his jumper and fuse rod kit, $107... so i order it, pay at time of order (he is in texas or georgia i believe, i am in california)

a week goes by, no update, no reply, no shipment progress, no tracking number, just silence

i send him an email, hey there just checking in, here is my order #, did the order ship yet? silence

wait couple more days, send him a second email (two email addresses are prominently shown on his site, on his order confirmation, rec’d at the time of my order and payment)... crickets

three days later, given i had paid using paypal, i file a case to get the transaction reviewed... two days later, i get an email reply:

Theres a backorder on pure silver from our supplier. My apology for not reading your email. Have you tried calling ? I know its an old technique but I dont sit at a desk any longer it makes me ill.. Call me old school but the phone is what works best for me. I have changed the website to no longer take orders for whats not in stock. The demand has fully overwhelmed my ability to supply based on the raw materials availability from my vendor, so I apologize.

The silver jumpers should be here this coming week I hope. could be as much as 2 weeks. So let me know if youd like a refund now or can just be patient with all the others waiting for this product. It will be fulfilled for sure. Clearly you did not search the net to see if theres even one time in 23 years of doing this as a career that Ive stolen anyones money ... I dont do that ... I also am not Amazon with 24 hour delivery... But I think I will be now... This PP dispute will cause me to eliminate the possibility to order unless Ive got them in stock and Ill make them in batches from time to time and inventory will be listed on the site .

Mike Powell

my answer...

Don’t mind waiting Mike. Just need communication.

Most things are bought online these days, and order status, inventory status should be shown, along with leadtimes. Especially long lead-times. Yes Amazon Prime has spoiled us. And there is Covid and supply chain disruptions. But a vendor still needs to communicate. It isn’t on the buyer, it’s on the seller. So why do you imply it is my fault to not call you? The burden is misplaced.

I am glad the dispute got your attention to even get a response. But why did it have to come to that?

Steve

it has been another 8 days, no reply

paypal writes me, says they reviewed the case, issued me a refund

i got other jumpers and solid copper rod to bypass the maggies, improvement is minor but noticeable

no value judgments or commentary... just what happened... end of story

@bassdude

excellent, thoughtful post

i too have found over the years that it is a smart move to determine what amplification is used by one’s favorite speaker maker for development and at demonstrations/shows, and then at least audition, if not outright emulate that setup

stewart tyler’s using arc vt series tube amps for voicing his proac response series

alan shaw using hegel 360/390 for his harbeths

spencer hughes and terry miles using quad 66 and audiolab 8200 monoblocks developing spendor classic spendors

more recently, clayton shaw using lta zotl tube amps for his spatial sapphires

wendell diller using bryston, now pass labs for his maggies

focal with naim, devore with line magnetic...and so on... not to say these are the only ones that work well, but it gives precious insight into what amps, or the nature of amps, that the makers themselves think will coax the best sound from their speakers

@szore

i posted earlier my sense of the mcintosh sound, didn’t you see it?

i also posted in another earlier post here about excellent youtube videos by audio excellence in canada on the brand, a rich treasure trove of info on mcintosh gear and their sound

so, not sure a 3rd request was needed -- you just need to patiently read what has been already posted... (just ignore some of the petty meaningless threads with laoman and others, they are admittedly snippy and unpleasant, sorry)

@roxy54

you friggin' kill me 🤣🤣🤣🤣

@laoman

i do hope you approach your real life rather differently than how you handle yourself here, if not, i would only say i feel sorry for you, and for all who those need to deal with you... wish you good luck dude, somehow i feel you will need some to see your way through

@laoman

since you asked, i speak three languages fluently but i don’t feel the need to advertise it

and i suspect i am the same race you are

you want to play here, grow some thicker skin

@roxy54, long time contributor, good guy, makes joke about spelling error, that is because you repeatedly insult the brand of gear discussed here, bring wrong facts (international sales and following of the brand, where @stereo5 corrected you), then you keep arguing, being defensive, have to put people down every time... @roxy54 makes joke about another person misspelling too, a guy who owns mac gear... he is just poking a little fun, what is the big deal to you?

i then make a little post, say i enjoy @roxy54 being silly, funny, i have a laugh, talk about spelling bee at his house, then you protest to mod and get that post removed, your name not even mentioned .. grow up, buddy

stop being a child, deal with your own sense of inadequacy elsewhere, don’t wear it on your sleeve - this is an anonymous forum, but respect is still earned, and cannot be demanded, do you see the difference?

you want people to be nice to you, you start by being nice yourself ...

juvenile fools exist in all cultures races nationalities, as your case proves - your posts, just on THIS thread alone

jjss49, as English is my second language, I am curious to see how you would spell in Lao. Thai, French and German, in all of which I am completely fluent. Do you even speak another language?

 

@thecarpathian

Thank you. As I stated, I certainly do not hate McIntosh. Why on earth would anyone hate any product unless you bought it and were then extremely disappointed? I assume those that buy it are for the most part not disappointed.

I would ask other posters one question though, why does this company feel the need to sell merchandise? Do you not find this ridiculous and demeaning? Would you believe they even sell McIntosh covid masks?

 

Really pathetic. Because someone tells the truth about your beloved McIntosh some of you get defensive.

 

"suggest you try to read more, and post less" Strong suggestion that you post something of some worth.

 

What a pathetic little reply. It must have taken all your brain cells to come up with that. By they way before you criticise my spelling, look at your punctuation. There should be a semi colon after "laoman".

 

"I would venture to guess 80% of the members here are North Americans. "

 

So what? Are you suggesting that people of other nationalities do not have the right to post here?

 

Please do say many things. Is anything I said inaccurate? Is Macintosh as popular in Asia and Europe as the US? Are the only posters who post on this site of US Nationality? Do some Americans have a loyalty towards the Macintosh brand? Are any of my rhetorical questions wrong?

 

What most of you are forgetting is that this site does not have just Americans posting. Macintosh is far less purchased outside of America. It appears that some Americans have a loyalty towards the brand; that’s fine.

 

As I stated in a previous post in this thread, Macintosh is not for me; it would be pretty close to the bottom in the line of hi fi equipment I would consider.

 

I do not hate Macintosh. It is your money; if you want to spend your money on Macintosh, go right ahead. Personally I would never buy anything from Macintosh because in my opinion there is far better sounding and better built equipment available for far less money.

However Macintosh does appeal to a certain demographic; my friends and I call it the Harley Davidson of hi fi

we can’t see you in person, but we can see the sorry, argumentative, defensive attitude you bring 

@rimo

thank you for your post... useful historical perspective, reminders about respect, enjoyment, how short life is, real music, the power of positivity

@roxy54

hey -- you've done good -- i see you taught one laoman to spell... 🤣👍

@sfseay 

In the end it has to be about the sound per dollar spent.

many people feel the way you do, but some don't - why do you state this like it is gospel?

enjoying the finer things in life has many facets, different people with different tastes and different means weight those differently - if one can have their cake and eat it too, then why not?  unless you have figured out a way to take your money with you ... 

What he is claiming, though, is that while you’re enjoying the Mc experience, you are foregoing better quality experience with other gear. In part, he says, you’re taken in by the looks of Mc. In part, you’re just stuck in a comfy cage. You’ve settled for lesser gear. Are you content? Sure. So are those who eat pork rinds and call them gourmet food. But you’re missing out on the real audiophile experience that Mc. cannot deliver.

So, he’s not bashing Mc owners, per se. He’s pitying them for being stuck. And he’s warning those not yet owning Mc gear -- or the other brands which are not truly audiophile as he defines it -- to steer clear of those audio cul-de-sacs.

this is elitist b-s -- it is as intellectual dishonest as it is self-serving

properly functioning mac gear of ANY generation is absolutely good enough to fulfill the audiophile pursuit - a garrard record player, a dynaco iv tube amp and a pair of jbls or bozaks from the 1960's do it... let’s get real -- we are here today because people 50-60 years ago desired and pursued great music played beautifully in homes for enjoyment - the fact that it has an aesthetic quality and looks cool too is totally besides this central point

the gear matters (imo it is too strong to say it doesn’t, it needs to meet some suitable level of quality, in spite of what some here would like to think), and of course, so does the room, and most importantly, so does the attitude and willingness to desire it and pursue it, with time, effort, money -- these things need to come together harmoniously

another thing this thread proves and reminds us of are the limitations of ’handy analogies’... rolex's, harleys, lexus' ...  ugh...

such are coarse, highly inexact tools for assisting the unknowing with only a very cursory understanding...

fascinating to me what transpires on this thread, not sure if this is what @hilde45 intended with his op

there are mcintosh bashers whose bashing is repetitive, argumentative, unnecessary... but the defensive defenders can be just as obnoxious

reality is, there are so many good choices for hifi gear, it is a wonderfully vibrant marketplace... good sound and good looks need not be mutually exclusive, some want both, some want good stuff, good brand recognition, are not 10-10ths hifi herds, others are... why do we care how other people choose to spend their money, pursue their happiness if it is not our own? some of us like this brand, the looks, so what, so what if we don’t?

i feel so much of this stems from our base instincts... jealousy, envy, frustration with our own circumstances, shallow need for external validation of our own personal choices... we should rise above all of this...

just enjoy the music, the fact that we all have the wherewithall to enjoy this hobby, participate in this forum, this discussion, and we should wish each other good luck in finding one's own version of happiness within it...

separate point, mikey ocd is a long time audiophile, has strong opinions, is a blowhard when it comes to presenting them, even if some are right (but then again alot of what he says is really wrong), his opinions are also problematic because he is commercially conflicted on many levels

so as with anyone spouting breathlessly on youtube, he may have a narrow fan base, but most viewers with brains and judgement take his schtick with major grains of salt

for really good info on macintosh, pls refer to audio excellence canada - they post numerous vids on youtube also... sometimes meandering in their lead-ins, but stick to it, excellent info and listening impressions on macintosh gear, driving top flight speakers, fed by top flight sources, properly set up -- now they carry mcintosh as major dealers in toronto, but they also directly compare against meaningful competing gear (which they also carry)... and it is my feeling they are quite honest and balanced in what they report... adrian and vilip are real pros, high integrity, greater intellectual honesty, successful too as a business ...

@hilde45

if the discussion is about mcintosh’s recent/modern gear, i think a fair summary is it is very good looking and very good sounding gear - of course, different audiophiles may/will have preferences for or against mcintosh’s house sound -- which is somewhat warm and romantic with good bass foundation (this more prominent in its lower to middle ranges... transparency is quite good in their top tier stuff)

of course, you are paying for having both the good sound and sexy looks

there are brands that may sound subtly better, certainly many that offer more value... but for all premium, luxury gear, which mcintosh is today, it delivers to make their customers pretty darned happy

haters gonna hate

it’s all they got, sad as it is

when all you have to your name is a rusty old hammer, the whole world just looks like a bed of nails

old hat at this point

well it seems that this thread, like many a seriously well done high end hi fi system, may have arrived at a point of diminishing returns